The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 391 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11701 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 07:36 AM
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I do, but $850 is already really really maxing out my budget, I had initially planned for $700 until this unit fell in my lap locally for $850. I also know I could get a refurb 4520ci for $850 on A4L, but I'm just thinking for my needs, the X4000 is maybe the smarter buy. I only have a 2.1, eventually I plan on replacing my mains with a 7.2 of high efficiency speakers, I'm stuck on a 1080p PJ for I'd guess the next 5+ years until budget 4k's get around $1000-1500. At the end of the day, I really just want XT32/SubEQ and good sound quality.
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post #11702 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 10:58 AM
 
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Oh I see, I know all about maxing out one's budget! The X4000 was on my short list too, it's an excellent option.
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post #11703 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 06:11 PM
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I had the x4000 for a few days and I returned it. I decided on a brand new 4520ci for the price of $1099 which was a great deal. I just kept reading about the x4000 going into protection mode. I know there are plenty that don't have an issue but for a little more money, better receiver, built in Japan vs China, more amps, etc the 4520ci was a no brainer. Plus, if I did not buy the 4520ci I would always be wondering why I passed up the good deal.
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Projector & Screen: Benq W1070 Elite Screens 100" Electric Video: Oppo 103d Audio: Denon 4520ci Speakers: Infinity RS5 (LW L C R RW) Infinity RS1 (LH RH) Infinity Beta ES250 (SL SR) Subwoofers: 2 SI18d4 Martycubes with iNuke3000dsp and 2 Infinity BU120 Shakers: 4 ADX shakers with Dayton SA230 amp

My Builds--Media console build----Martycube build----ADX Bass Shaker Install
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post #11704 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 06:32 PM
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post #11705 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
Welcome to the 4520 - I am sure you will be pleased (I know I am)
I have had mine for over 5 months and love every minute it's on.

Projector & Screen: Benq W1070 Elite Screens 100" Electric Video: Oppo 103d Audio: Denon 4520ci Speakers: Infinity RS5 (LW L C R RW) Infinity RS1 (LH RH) Infinity Beta ES250 (SL SR) Subwoofers: 2 SI18d4 Martycubes with iNuke3000dsp and 2 Infinity BU120 Shakers: 4 ADX shakers with Dayton SA230 amp

My Builds--Media console build----Martycube build----ADX Bass Shaker Install
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post #11706 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 08:18 PM
 
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Ditto on that! I've found I really like the 2 channell capability of the 4520 too. It's the real deal.
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post #11707 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 08:32 PM
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Had any new owners of the 4520 considered the x4100? I'd love to hear why you went 4520, I find myself in the same boat. Anywhere to be buying besides accessories 4 less? Seems I may have missed the boat on the great deals
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post #11708 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Personally, unless you had zero interest in Atmos, I would get the newer model. Normally I'm an advocate of getting the higher end but slightly older model as better bang for the buck, but Atmos is really a game changer if you are a movie lover.

If you are primarily using the system for music that's a bit different, since Atmos isn't that relevant and the extra power, build quality and refinement of the 4520 will probably win out.

But otherwise I'd go with the newer model. Any differences in amp power, if important, can be mitigated with an external amp. Plus you get superior zone features and other minor improvements (like the ability to store separate 2ch settings, input specific channel level adjustments, etc).
Sorry to post again, but found this which touches on my debate between the 4100 and 4520. Can anyone comment on the superior zone features, and the storing of separate settings. Thanks again for all the help, really enjoying this hobby, regardless of what my bank account thinks
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post #11709 of 13381 Old 03-17-2015, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
It's not a question of the transferability of the warranty; to the best of my knowledge, no D&M product purchased from an authorized reseller should fail to qualify for warranty coverage. Either the seller is not in fact an authorized dealer or he was not adhering to the terms of his retailing agreement in selling this "customer return," or else OP was given incorrect information from Denon about the warranty for his unit.

Something does not add up.
No, you are wrong. As it is indeed 100% a matter of the warranty not being transferable. Denon flat out will not transfer the warranty to another person. The unit in question that he bought from the dealer in fact was actually a used one that was sold to someone else as new 4 months earlier and then traded back in for something else, and no matter if he was a authorized dealer or not, used sale = no Denon warranty.
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post #11710 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemannnnn View Post
Had any new owners of the 4520 considered the x4100? I'd love to hear why you went 4520, I find myself in the same boat. Anywhere to be buying besides accessories 4 less? Seems I may have missed the boat on the great deals
Missed the boat? A4L still has new for $999.

Projector & Screen: Benq W1070 Elite Screens 100" Electric Video: Oppo 103d Audio: Denon 4520ci Speakers: Infinity RS5 (LW L C R RW) Infinity RS1 (LH RH) Infinity Beta ES250 (SL SR) Subwoofers: 2 SI18d4 Martycubes with iNuke3000dsp and 2 Infinity BU120 Shakers: 4 ADX shakers with Dayton SA230 amp

My Builds--Media console build----Martycube build----ADX Bass Shaker Install
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post #11711 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bluer101 View Post
Missed the boat? A4L still has new for $999.
No I know, just seeing the ones that got them for $8-900 recently. Every little bit helps when you shatter your budget. I honestly started this search calling JD for pricing on the x1100
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post #11712 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrtie View Post
Customer bought it NIB in November, traded it in for a Marantz unit with Atmos last week, I asked him if he'll honor the remainder of the warranty and he said it's not a problem, might as well be brand new. I have the serial and receipt, so I shouldn't have any issues with warranty work if needed.
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Originally Posted by Johnla View Post
Sad to say I was correct about only the original purchaser having a valid warranty, and any owner after that having none as the warranty is not transferable. But, it's also best to find out about something like this right away, and not months from now if you had some sort of a problem with it that needed a service repair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
It's not a question of the transferability of the warranty; to the best of my knowledge, no D&M product purchased from an authorized reseller should fail to qualify for warranty coverage. Either the seller is not in fact an authorized dealer or he was not adhering to the terms of his retailing agreement in selling this "customer return," or else OP was given incorrect information from Denon about the warranty for his unit.

Something does not add up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post
No, you are wrong. As it is indeed 100% a matter of the warranty not being transferable. Denon flat out will not transfer the warranty to another person. The unit in question that he bought from the dealer in fact was actually a used one that was sold to someone else as new 4 months earlier and then traded back in for something else, and no matter if he was a authorized dealer or not, used sale = no Denon warranty.
Sorry, but you are misinformed; the issue of non-transferability of the warranty does not apply to purchases from an authorized dealer. It does not matter whether the original purchaser registered his unit with Denon; an authorized dealer can resell a customer-returned item with full warranty. Under the terms of the agreement he enters into with D&M in order to become an "authorized dealer," the retailer typically must bench-test the unit prior to resale to verify its functionality. Armed with the sales receipt, the new customer will indeed quality for the 3-year Denon warranty on a 4520 purchased under these conditions. As an example, Crutchfield has a very liberal 60-day return policy; they can, and do, resell Denon AVR's that customers have tried out at home and subsequently returned for a full refund. These units will be covered by the full warranty: it doesn't even matter whether they were demo models, customer-returns, or if the box was simply opened for inspection; once the seal is broken, the unit will be bench-tested before it is resold under the generic label of "open box."

The issue in OP's instance is that the dealer apparently did not live up to his obligations toward the customer in stating that this item would qualify for warranty coverage if he did not certify the unit as "like new" in accordance with the manufacturer's requirements. He should have known better.

I stand by my original assessment that "something does not add up": an authorized dealer should not be confused about the terms of D&M's warranty coverage.
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post #11713 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
Sorry, but you are misinformed; the issue of non-transferability of the warranty does not apply to purchases from an authorized dealer. It does not matter whether the original purchaser registered his unit with Denon; an authorized dealer can resell a customer-returned item with full warranty. Under the terms of the agreement he enters into with D&M in order to become an "authorized dealer," the retailer typically must bench-test the unit prior to resale to verify its functionality. Armed with the sales receipt, the new customer will indeed quality for the 3-year Denon warranty on a 4520 purchased under these conditions. As an example, Crutchfield has a very liberal 60-day return policy; they can, and do, resell Denon AVR's that customers have tried out at home and subsequently returned for a full refund. These units will be covered by the full warranty: it doesn't even matter whether they were demo models, customer-returns, or if the box was simply opened for inspection; once the seal is broken, the unit will be bench-tested before it is resold under the generic label of "open box."

The issue in OP's instance is that the dealer apparently did not live up to his obligations toward the customer in stating that this item would qualify for warranty coverage if he did not certify the unit as "like new" in accordance with the manufacturer's requirements. He should have known better.
I guess the obvious question here is how long can the dealer's return policy be in order for the new owner to still get a full 3 year warranty? If the original purchaser trades in an AVR 3 years after buying it and the dealer bench-tests the unit prior to resale, does the new buyer still get a 3 year warranty? I wouldn't think so. After 3 or 4 months, I suppose that could fly. It's quite possible the dealer didn't do anything wrong here and the buyer got bad info from Denon customer support as it sure wouldn't be the first time that happened.
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post #11714 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 08:52 AM
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Wait so you're saying if he goes through some paper work with Denon, I could have the warranty! Am I understanding this correctly? Drat I already ordered the X4000, so I guess I'm returning this one either way as I don't want to eat the reshipping/restock fees.

Time line of the unit.

Guy buys the unit new in November from the dealer.

Guy returns it in trade in for a atmos enabled Marantz in the last month.

Dealer has had the unit operating his HT showroom since then.

Dealer sells it to me last Saturday.
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post #11715 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I guess the obvious question here is how long can the dealer's return policy be in order for the new owner to still get a full 3 year warranty? If the original purchaser trades in an AVR 3 years after buying it and the dealer bench-tests the unit prior to resale, does the new buyer still get a 3 year warranty? I wouldn't think so. After 3 or 4 months, I suppose that could fly. It's quite possible the dealer didn't do anything wrong here and the buyer got bad info from Denon customer support as it sure wouldn't be the first time that happened.
Amen to that, brother. I was going to point that out to OP but it seemed OBE at that point. One should never blindly trust what D&M's contract support people put out over the phone as they are frequently wrong or just plain uninformed. There are contributors on this thread (like JD and batpig) who have forgotten far more about D&M products than those third-party CSR's will ever know!

I am not privy to retailer training but do consider myself a knowledgeable, conscientious consumer. I would guess that the operative word in OP's scenario is "trade-in." I don't see how any trade-in (as opposed to a unit that is returned for refund) can be recertified as new; that just seems contradictory to me since the seller would presumably be applying a part of the retail value of the unit toward a second purchase. OTOH, if an authorized dealer is accepting the defect-free customer return for a full refund then he presumably would be entitled to recertify and resell it with the full warranty. The other scenario is a product that is returned as defective; in that case the AVR would have to be reconditioned by an authorized repair facility and could then be resold as "reconditioned" with the reduced 1-year D&M "Limited Refurbished (B-Stock) Warranty."
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post #11716 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 09:51 AM
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I have had mine for over 5 months and love every minute it's on.
I've had mine since June of 2013, and I'm still loving every minute. Watched 2 Guns last night with the guys ( guys movie night = much louder volume than the wife would tolerate ). Great sound track, fun movie !

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post #11717 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrtie View Post
Wait so you're saying if he goes through some paper work with Denon, I could have the warranty! Am I understanding this correctly?
I don't think so. I said that something didn't add up and it still doesn't. Your dealer probably never should have led you to believe that the unit was covered by D&M's 3-year warranty on a new unit. But, unless someone here with retailer knowledge (like AV Science reps) can correct me, I would say that no authorized retailer should be selling a D&M product that is not subject to warranty coverage. This is one of salient points that differentiates authorized from unauthorized resellers.
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post #11718 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I don't think so. I said that something didn't add up and it still doesn't. Your dealer probably never should have led you to believe that the unit was covered by D&M's 3-year warranty on a new unit. But, unless someone here with retailer knowledge (like AV Science reps) can correct me, I would say that no authorized retailer should be selling a D&M product that is not subject to warranty coverage. This is one of salient points that differentiates authorized from unauthorized resellers.
Well, there's nothing wrong with a retailing taking trade-ins and reselling those items, as long as it's clear that there's no warranty from the manufacturer on used gear that they sell except in cases where the manufacturer allows warranties to be transferred (Bryston would be one example).
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post #11719 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 11:15 AM
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cooling fans

anyone using cooling fans on there receiver and one is the best many on e-bay
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post #11720 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 11:36 AM
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anyone using cooling fans on there receiver and one is the best many on e-bay
Yes - the one that KBarnes701 linked to in post #11425 of 11721-


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amp-Receiver...item53f4df912e


Works great, very quiet. No complaints.
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post #11721 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 11:59 AM
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post #11722 of 13381 Old 03-18-2015, 07:26 PM
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Ok, I've decided to join the club...going to buy a 4520. Do I go refurbished with extra warranty at just over 900 or new at just over 1000, both from accessories4less.

Surprisingly it seems a lot of refurbs arrive with issues, but I guess you'd be more likely to hear about those ones than the perfect ones

Does anyone have experience with the leaf warranty?
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post #11723 of 13381 Old 03-19-2015, 05:50 AM
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Personally for only $100 difference I would go for the new (and the three year Denon warranty)

Welcome to the club

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post #11724 of 13381 Old 03-19-2015, 07:22 AM
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The refurbished versions are now $849 vs. $999. Makes it a little more interesting but I would still go new.

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
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post #11725 of 13381 Old 03-19-2015, 08:06 AM
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Oh man, it's time to pull the trigger and I just can't help but think about the x4100 new at $999. Heck, I'm starting to think about a refurb x5200 at $1299...
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post #11726 of 13381 Old 03-19-2015, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemannnnn View Post
Oh man, it's time to pull the trigger and I just can't help but think about the x4100 new at $999. Heck, I'm starting to think about a refurb x5200 at $1299...
Why not a NEW 4520 for 999?

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post #11727 of 13381 Old 03-19-2015, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by joemannnnn View Post
Ok, I've decided to join the club...going to buy a 4520. Do I go refurbished with extra warranty at just over 900 or new at just over 1000, both from accessories4less.

Surprisingly it seems a lot of refurbs arrive with issues, but I guess you'd be more likely to hear about those ones than the perfect ones

Does anyone have experience with the leaf warranty?
What's a leaf warranty?
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post #11728 of 13381 Old 03-19-2015, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by joemannnnn View Post
Oh man, it's time to pull the trigger and I just can't help but think about the x4100 new at $999. Heck, I'm starting to think about a refurb x5200 at $1299...
LOL! Dang Joe, your budget just keeps creeping up and up.
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post #11729 of 13381 Old 03-19-2015, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by joemannnnn View Post
Oh man, it's time to pull the trigger and I just can't help but think about the x4100 new at $999. Heck, I'm starting to think about a refurb x5200 at $1299...

I'm personally not a fan of refurbs. Too many people seem to eventually have problems crop up with them, as opposed to new recievers. Buy new if you can. Give us a call at AV Science for a quote.

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post #11730 of 13381 Old 03-19-2015, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RobLee View Post
Why not a NEW 4520 for 999?
The new 4520 was the front runner and the one I decided I was going to buy last night. I've been debating between that and the x4100 for days, and thought I had settled on the 4520. For whatever reason this morning I started thinking about the x4100 again and worrying about what I may miss with the newer models. Rumor has it the updated Denon app due out soon will not work with the older models. The new models can play HDMI audio to the zones, they have the nice info screen displaying your input and output signals, etc. And then there's atmos, which I'm on the fence about, but at least it would be an option.

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What's a leaf warranty?
They appear to be the company that Accessories for less uses for their extended warranties. So if you go refurb, and pay extra to get an extended warranty similar to what you would get with a new denon, you'd be dealing with Leaf, and I'd never heard of them. I believe this is them: https://www.newleafsc.net/Products.php

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LOL! Dang Joe, your budget just keeps creeping up and up.
Alan, I've lost my mind I literally started this search thinking about the x1100 for $250. Then I decided to sell some stuff and go crazy to try and get into a XT32 model
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