The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 394 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11791 of 12089 Old 03-28-2015, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
It's in reference to knock offs of products, among other things. There have been lots of cases where the factory that makes product A for company XYZ will make product B for company ABC and the 2 products are pretty much identical other than the name stamped on the front panel - that doesn't happen by mistake. Land Rover is currently in the process of suing a Chinese company for making a knock-off of the Range Rover Evoque that looks pretty much identical and was launched on the same day. One could probably spend a number of days coming up with long lists of examples. The problem is largely that the Chinese government has no respect for things like copyrights.
in the context of electronics..and even bringing to to the level of this thread..do you know of any counterfeit cases where D&M( or even their the other Asian A/V manufacturers who do 99% of their manufacturing there) is involved?
I dont know the specifics you mention of the Range Rover situation...though in the context of the current discussion...was Range Rover manufacturing cars there?

While I understand your point/stance and can understand when people say they want A/V built in North America

In the context of the Asians..its clearly a $$ thing and D&M is not lighting the world on fire with their financials now...like Pioneer was not

So..if anything I see more "Chinese" invasion
I dont think 99.9% of the market cares

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post #11792 of 12089 Old 03-28-2015, 09:55 AM
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interesting
if you use that idea as your litmus test for buying, your selections would have to be extremely impacted in regard to electronics...
Not sure I understand the concept of "stealing technology" when these are branded items from other countries

Warren
Yes my selections would be extremely impacted. That is why you'll notice I said, "When I can avoid it." I do own several items made in China. But I suppose this topic is more suited to some other thread on some other forum.
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post #11793 of 12089 Old 03-28-2015, 03:31 PM
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I use this receiver as my HDMI switcher. With my PC, I am no longer able to use GPU Scaling on my Nvidia graphics card, and I can only assume the Denon is the culprit since it used to work with my previous switcher. Has anyone gotten this to work or does anyone have a fix?
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post #11794 of 12089 Old 03-28-2015, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
My wife says I'm losing my hearing - from too loud movie sound tracks in our theater. Of course, if true, that will only mean I will need to crank action movies even louder !
It's a vicious cycle ( but fun ) !


With most Blu Ray movies in my room the way it is currently calibrated, I use a setting around -5. And I too have my subs cranked up a bit from the calibrated setting. Sounds like tanks are really rolling through my theater watching Fury !!



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post #11795 of 12089 Old 03-28-2015, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
My wife says I'm losing my hearing - from too loud movie sound tracks in our theater. Of course, if true, that will only mean I will need to crank action movies even louder !
It's a vicious cycle ( but fun ) !


With most Blu Ray movies in my room the way it is currently calibrated, I use a setting around -5. And I too have my subs cranked up a bit from the calibrated setting. Sounds like tanks are really rolling through my theater watching Fury !!
Fury was awesome. I can't wait to build a dedicated sealed space. Because I'm in a open living room it is so hard to get that impact and pressurized feeling. I have my 2 martycubes 2 infinity near field 12's, and now my 4 bass shakers. Between all that it really make me smile but a lot is wasted trying to pressurize the whole house.
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post #11796 of 12089 Old 03-30-2015, 12:19 AM
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I think my 4520 is near the end of its life. It's less than 2 years. It sometimes, says headphone is plugged in, then become no sound, sometimes, it says calibration microphone is plugged in and menu pops up with no sound as well. But I have nothing plug in. Very annoying. I did compressed air trick, doesn't help. Only thing can temporary resolve the problem is by beating hard on the front or top, or even lift it like 1 inch and drop it hard on table, then it will recovery for 2 days...some connector inside or even some soldering joints are bad I guess.

Any way, quite disappointed with it's build quality, considering buying Marantz 7009 as replacement. It's almost at same price, but likely a down grade? What else to look at? Any suggestion? I like 4520 sound though, so I hope the next AVR is at least equal sounding or a bit better.
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post #11797 of 12089 Old 03-30-2015, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMet View Post
I think my 4520 is near the end of its life. It's less than 2 years. It sometimes, says headphone is plugged in, then become no sound, sometimes, it says calibration microphone is plugged in and menu pops up with no sound as well. But I have nothing plug in. Very annoying. I did compressed air trick, doesn't help. Only thing can temporary resolve the problem is by beating hard on the front or top, or even lift it like 1 inch and drop it hard on table, then it will recovery for 2 days...some connector inside or even some soldering joints are bad I guess.

Any way, quite disappointed with it's build quality, considering buying Marantz 7009 as replacement. It's almost at same price, but likely a down grade? What else to look at? Any suggestion? I like 4520 sound though, so I hope the next AVR is at least equal sounding or a bit better.
The 4520 has a 3 year warranty. If you bought a refurb that may not be the case. If you do have warranty left, I'd stop dropping it and make a claim. Too bad about your experience though, there certainly does seem to be a percentage of early failures.
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post #11798 of 12089 Old 03-30-2015, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMet View Post
I think my 4520 is near the end of its life. It's less than 2 years. It sometimes, says headphone is plugged in, then become no sound, sometimes, it says calibration microphone is plugged in and menu pops up with no sound as well. But I have nothing plug in. Very annoying. I did compressed air trick, doesn't help. Only thing can temporary resolve the problem is by beating hard on the front or top, or even lift it like 1 inch and drop it hard on table, then it will recovery for 2 days...some connector inside or even some soldering joints are bad I guess.

Any way, quite disappointed with it's build quality, considering buying Marantz 7009 as replacement. It's almost at same price, but likely a down grade? What else to look at? Any suggestion? I like 4520 sound though, so I hope the next AVR is at least equal sounding or a bit better.
The symptoms you describe are the same as what I experienced with a 4520. First, the headphone jack stopped working, which I could live with, since I rarely use headphones. Second, the connection for the Audyssey calibration mic became completely unresponsive, meaning I could no longer perform calibrations. This, of course, was a show-stopper. I believe both the headphone jack and the Audyssey mic connection are on the same circuit board.

I was able to return the unit to the seller for a replacement.
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post #11799 of 12089 Old 03-30-2015, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMet View Post
I think my 4520 is near the end of its life. It's less than 2 years. It sometimes, says headphone is plugged in, then become no sound, sometimes, it says calibration microphone is plugged in and menu pops up with no sound as well. But I have nothing plug in. Very annoying. I did compressed air trick, doesn't help. Only thing can temporary resolve the problem is by beating hard on the front or top, or even lift it like 1 inch and drop it hard on table, then it will recovery for 2 days...some connector inside or even some soldering joints are bad I guess.

Any way, quite disappointed with it's build quality, considering buying Marantz 7009 as replacement. It's almost at same price, but likely a down grade? What else to look at? Any suggestion? I like 4520 sound though, so I hope the next AVR is at least equal sounding or a bit better.
Which CC did you use to buy it?

I know certain CC's (like a few AMEX cards) give you an additional year of warranty on electronics. I'm not sure if it applies to refurbished units but its worth giving it a try. This is assuming that your unit is refurbished and has no warranty left.

I'm strongly considering getting a refurb 4520CI myself for 800 bucks. Definitely going to run a fan or two on top to keep it cool.
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post #11800 of 12089 Old 03-30-2015, 09:48 AM
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Which CC did you use to buy it?

I know certain CC's (like a few AMEX cards) give you an additional year of warranty on electronics. I'm not sure if it applies to refurbished units but its worth giving it a try. This is assuming that your unit is refurbished and has no warranty left.

I'm strongly considering getting a refurb 4520CI myself for 800 bucks. Definitely going to run a fan or two on top to keep it cool.

The AMEX additional year of warranty saved me once. BTW, I'm loving the cooling fan - what's not to like? It has to help my 4520 run cooler and last longer.


I'm pretty sure dropping or banging a receiver to get it to work is not a long term strategy.

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post #11801 of 12089 Old 03-30-2015, 11:39 AM
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Before I tried my two refurbs I made sure I had a cc with the extra year of coverage just in case (Visa Signature card)....but first one DOA and second died after a bit more than 30 days so I went new....sure hope I've got one with some legs now.
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post #11802 of 12089 Old 04-02-2015, 07:21 AM
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Just ordered the 4520CI refurbished from A4L. Coming from a TX-SR805, I hope the 4520CI is a worth successor.
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post #11803 of 12089 Old 04-02-2015, 08:48 AM
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I'm pretty sure dropping or banging a receiver to get it to work is not a long term strategy.
For YEARS I had a CRT monitor with sticky notes that read "hit here for blue" and "hit here for red". Worked like a champ till the day it didn't.
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post #11804 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 05:30 AM
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I've had my Denon for about two months now and am loving it. So far I've seen no reliability issues or problems. I have read that the network switch can be a little sketchy at times though. Also, I'm very much a novice when it comes to networking and don't really understand DHCP, static versus dynamic IP addresses or any of that stuff. With that in mind, would it make more sense for me to just spend $20 on an ethernet switch from Amazon than to try to figure out how it works on the receiver? I plan on finally getting my Oppo, Apple TV and receiver hardwired into my network this coming weekend (right now it's just my HTPC, which has worked fine for my needs until now), and want to make sure it's a reliable no-fuss setup.
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post #11805 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 06:06 AM
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I personally don't use the 4520 as a network switch, but that is simply because I have had regular switches setup and cabled for years already. It's a neat little feature to have in an AVR, and in fact I think having a network switch built into an AVR makes a lot more sense than giving an avr WIFI in the first place.

But that's me, I think anything heavier than a kilo or not possessing it's own battery shouldn't have wifi in the first place, and last I checked an AVR needs an almost stupid amount of cables inserted anyways.

I haven't tested, but I guess the networking has to be powered on in the Denon for the switch to work, probably not a big deal since if it's only for the ht, then you most likely will have the AVR powered on anyways.
Unless you then can think of actual reasons to get a dedicated switch, for instance you want a route a computer or something with higher bandwidth then sure you can spend the extra bucks. Other than that I can't see a point.

As for networking setup, unless you can think of specific reasons to give devices fixed ip addresses or feel a burning desire to learn about it DHCP servers and Ip addressing then I suggest you just stick with the defaults.

I do use static mappings for a few of my devices, but I do it through the DHCP service by mapping specific MAC addresses to an IP address, that way I just leave my device on automatic but it will only get the same ip everytime.

But in short unless you really really want to there really isn't any need.

I did this mainly for two reasons:
First being I'm somewhat damaged from my network admin days, and secondly I was really bored one evening..
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post #11806 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel THB View Post
I've had my Denon for about two months now and am loving it. So far I've seen no reliability issues or problems. I have read that the network switch can be a little sketchy at times though. Also, I'm very much a novice when it comes to networking and don't really understand DHCP, static versus dynamic IP addresses or any of that stuff. With that in mind, would it make more sense for me to just spend $20 on an ethernet switch from Amazon than to try to figure out how it works on the receiver? I plan on finally getting my Oppo, Apple TV and receiver hardwired into my network this coming weekend (right now it's just my HTPC, which has worked fine for my needs until now), and want to make sure it's a reliable no-fuss setup.
There really isn't anything to configure on the 4520's network hub (note that it isn't a switch, which has performance implications depending on what is connected), so you can just plug other devices into it and should be ok. For use with the Oppo and Apple TV, using the 4520's hub is probably fine, especially since you would typically be using just one of those devices at a time. Personally, I wouldn't bother using the 4520's hub, but I've got a HP ProCurve 24 port Gigabit switch in the rack that everything connects to.
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post #11807 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 06:22 AM
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Thanks for the replies. There actually are times when I would want to access the network downstream from the receiver without it on (fiddling around on the computer mainly) - will the switch work if the receiver is in standby mode?
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post #11808 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 06:24 AM
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Thanks for the replies. There actually are times when I would want to access the network downstream from the receiver without it on (fiddling around on the computer mainly) - will the switch work if the receiver is in standby mode?
In the network settings, you can configure "Always On" and "Off in Standby". The former setting ensures network connectivity when the AVR is powered off.
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post #11809 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel THB View Post
I've had my Denon for about two months now and am loving it. So far I've seen no reliability issues or problems. I have read that the network switch can be a little sketchy at times though. Also, I'm very much a novice when it comes to networking and don't really understand DHCP, static versus dynamic IP addresses or any of that stuff. With that in mind, would it make more sense for me to just spend $20 on an ethernet switch from Amazon than to try to figure out how it works on the receiver? I plan on finally getting my Oppo, Apple TV and receiver hardwired into my network this coming weekend (right now it's just my HTPC, which has worked fine for my needs until now), and want to make sure it's a reliable no-fuss setup.
part of the problem is that it doesn't have an Ethernet Switch. It uses a hub. I haven't used an Ethernet Hub since 1997/1998. Since then I've only used Ethernet switches. Which allow the dynamic allocation of bandwidth. Unlike a hub. I still wonder why they heck they put an Ethernet Hub in the 4520. Hubs went out with the 20th century.

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post #11810 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 07:28 AM
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part of the problem is that it doesn't have an Ethernet Switch. It uses a hub. I haven't used an Ethernet Hub since 1997/1998. Since then I've only used Ethernet switches. Which allow the dynamic allocation of bandwidth. Unlike a hub. I still wonder why they heck they put an Ethernet Hub in the 4520. Hubs went out with the 20th century.
I have posed the question many times whether it is a switch or a hub, since nobody who seem to know there is a difference between the two seem to be in the loop, I keep reading hub some places and switch in others (even think the manual uses both descriptions but I could be wrong about that)

I do suspect it might be a hub, but I guess I can't get a proper answer until I hook four computers into it and run bandwidth tests which I am honestly not going to.
I honestly don't see why they would use a hub this day and age, it's not like a 4 port 100Mb\s switches are expensive.

So only reason I could see is if Denon dug up a time capsule from the 90's with a few million 4 port hubs in it they figured they might as well use them, I honestly can't think of any sane reason.

Doesn't seem like switches are becoming the norm in receivers either so if you are using the ports on this unit, chances are when you upgrade you will need to get a dedicated switch any ways, a $20 one will do just fine if not better.

And as noted sometimes networking as been a little hinky, and the main fix for that is disabling precisely the "always on" feature.
This is not a Denon only issue, in fact I got the same experience with my oppo 103d.
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post #11811 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 07:29 AM
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part of the problem is that it doesn't have an Ethernet Switch. It uses a hub. I haven't used an Ethernet Hub since 1997/1998. Since then I've only used Ethernet switches. Which allow the dynamic allocation of bandwidth. Unlike a hub. I still wonder why they heck they put an Ethernet Hub in the 4520. Hubs went out with the 20th century.
What you say is true, but I don't think that means that the hub is not convenient. As long as only one attached device is using network bandwidth, the fact that a hub shares bandwidth is not that big of an issue. As long as owners are aware of its limitations and use it appropriately, I think the hub is handy to have.
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post #11812 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 07:34 AM
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part of the problem is that it doesn't have an Ethernet Switch. It uses a hub. I haven't used an Ethernet Hub since 1997/1998. Since then I've only used Ethernet switches. Which allow the dynamic allocation of bandwidth. Unlike a hub. I still wonder why they heck they put an Ethernet Hub in the 4520. Hubs went out with the 20th century.
I dunno, I keep a 10/100/1000 hub around. For example sometimes if you need to run Wireshark (packet capture) on a device it is easier to put a hub in the loop than to set up span ports on a switch. Sometimes it is even necessary if said switch doesn't have the spanning capability as many cheap/unmanaged switches don't.

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post #11813 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 08:37 AM
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I have posed the question many times whether it is a switch or a hub, since nobody who seem to know there is a difference between the two seem to be in the loop, I keep reading hub some places and switch in others (even think the manual uses both descriptions but I could be wrong about that)

I do suspect it might be a hub, but I guess I can't get a proper answer until I hook four computers into it and run bandwidth tests which I am honestly not going to.
I honestly don't see why they would use a hub this day and age, it's not like a 4 port 100Mb\s switches are expensive.

So only reason I could see is if Denon dug up a time capsule from the 90's with a few million 4 port hubs in it they figured they might as well use them, I honestly can't think of any sane reason.

Doesn't seem like switches are becoming the norm in receivers either so if you are using the ports on this unit, chances are when you upgrade you will need to get a dedicated switch any ways, a $20 one will do just fine if not better.
I can't see how it can be a hub. It lacks a marked uplink port. AFAIK, a hub needs an uplink port.
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post #11814 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 08:45 AM
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I can't see how it can be a hub. It lacks a marked uplink port. AFAIK, a hub needs an uplink port.
Nope, an uplink port is not required.

D-Link Reference

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Quote:
An uplink port on a hub/switch/router (or any other network device) is simply an Ethernet port where the Receive (Rx) and the Transmit (Tx) signals are swapped by crossing the Transmit and Receive twisted-pair wires.

This lets the Transmit signal (and twisted-pair) on one device correctly connect to the Receive connection on the other device and vice-versa, allowing for stacking similar devices, or simply expanding the number of ports.

The Uplink feature is often implemented by a shared port, meaning one port with two different jacks (usually next to each other). Note that you should never plug something into both the normal and shared uplink port at the same time in such devices ! Some newer devices implement "auto MDI/MDI-X", a feature that automatically figures out how to connect with whatever is plugged into it.

An uplink port is essentially a substitute for a crossover cable, it has the same functionality.
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post #11815 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 08:48 AM
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I can't see how it can be a hub. It lacks a marked uplink port. AFAIK, a hub needs an uplink port.
Not necessarily. Older hubs had a specified port along with a switch that would put it into the correct "mode" to be either an uplink port, or a hub port. Otherwise you had to have a crossover cable to uplink it.

Newer ports have MDI-X, or technology that automatically detects whether or not the port is being used as an uplink or being used to support an actual device. In that case any port can be the uplink.
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post #11816 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 08:50 AM
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post #11817 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 08:58 AM
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GMTA
You have networking experience?
I'm a software developer, but I like to tinker with my home network and have been doing so for many years now. I'm also good at running Google searches to make sure I'm right before posting.
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post #11818 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I'm a software developer, but I like to tinker with my home network and have been doing so for many years now. I'm also good at running Google searches to make sure I'm right before posting.
GMTA and GIYF
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post #11819 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 03:35 PM
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Newer ports have MDI-X, or technology that automatically detects whether or not the port is being used as an uplink or being used to support an actual device. In that case any port can be the uplink.
Oh... I stand corrected. I thought Auto MDI-X became more widely used around the same time gigbit on CAT5e showed up. It seems odd to find it on a hub.
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post #11820 of 12089 Old 04-06-2015, 04:06 PM
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Oh... I stand corrected. I thought Auto MDI-X became more widely used around the same time gigbit on CAT5e showed up. It seems odd to find it on a hub.
Yeah - MDI-X is all about the port - whether you find it in a hub or a switch. I guess we still have no definitive answer as to whether or not whatever is in the 4520 is a hub or a switch though.


Guess I could test it sometime (but it will likely be a while as I have a procedure scheduled for this week that will have me off my feet for a while) using Wireshark on my laptop and see if I can see any traffic...


Bill
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