The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 406 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by doognam View Post
This behaviour is consistent with poor contacts inside the unit's board-to-board connectors.


Such is the nature of loose contacts in the avr4520's board-to-board connectors.

My suggestion is to get it repaired or replaced if you can.
unfortunately..if the behavior doesnt exhibit itself at the repair facility then you are somewhat stuck


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Marantz 8801 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
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Old 04-29-2015, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by doognam View Post
This behaviour is consistent with poor contacts inside the unit's board-to-board connectors.

Loose connections in these units that show symptoms are fixed, sometimes, with just gentle or small mechanical movements such as shifting or moving the unit, pulling off then putting back the external cables, and/or pressing the back of the unit.

Thermal expansion and contraction cycles also play a part in the avr's behaviour. Heating and cooling cycles can either improve or exacerbate the issues. Unplugging the unit for 10 minutes may either fix the loose contacts or make things worse due to mechanical contraction. Some units stayed fixed for a reasonable time. Some became progressively worse, and some were rendered unuseable almost straightaway.

Such is the nature of loose contacts in the avr4520's board-to-board connectors.

My suggestion is to get it repaired or replaced if you can.
Thanks Doognam, I plan to try the process you mention and see if there is a change in behavior.
I have not received s response from Denon to my email and I have heard their Repair Centers provide less than stellar service.
I have owned several Pioneer/Yamaha/Onkyo Brand AVRs in the past all 5.1 and 7.1 and never had ANY issues period.
This is really crazy that a Flagship unit exhibits this behavior and quite consistently in case of the 4520Ci.
I did not register the unit when i bought it 7 months ago from Best Buy in that mad sale period.
I hope that does not become an issue especially when mine was a Demo unit with no paperwork other than a receipt.

I will keep you posted.
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Old 04-29-2015, 10:35 AM
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Thanks Doognam, I plan to try the process you mention and see if there is a change in behavior.
I have not received s response from Denon to my email and I have heard their Repair Centers provide less than stellar service.
I have owned several Pioneer/Yamaha/Onkyo Brand AVRs in the past all 5.1 and 7.1 and never had ANY issues period.
This is really crazy that a Flagship unit exhibits this behavior and quite consistently in case of the 4520Ci.
I did not register the unit when i bought it 7 months ago from Best Buy in that mad sale period.
I hope that does not become an issue especially when mine was a Demo unit with no paperwork other than a receipt.

I will keep you posted.

The 4520 is my third Denon receiver I've owned since 2002. I haven't had any problems with any of them. Any product from any manufacturer can have a defective unit. It happens. probably even to Rolls Royce !

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Old 04-29-2015, 12:10 PM
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The 4520 is my third Denon receiver I've owned since 2002. I haven't had any problems with any of them. Any product from any manufacturer can have a defective unit. It happens. probably even to Rolls Royce !
Ha Ha Craig,
A) Rolls Royce is a bad example. It always happens to a Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Bentley, Maserati, They are supposed to be tuned up every time after you take them out for a ride.

B) The 4520Ci is perhaps the most defective product that I have seen of late. It could be that it is the most popular and has this thread here.

I personally know of several people and two more have confirmed here that this unit develops problems right out of the box. During the Best Buy Fire sale several buyers had reported DOA Units.

I am glad you have not had any issues with your Denon.
The same person that I know whose 4520Ci dies within Two weeks bought it because his 4311 went on the fritz after two years I believe and then after TWO weeks it mysteriously started working again :-).

Thanks for the input.
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:32 PM
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I am glad you have not had any issues with your Denon.
The same person that I know whose 4520Ci dies within Two weeks bought it because his 4311 went on the fritz after two years I believe and then after TWO weeks it mysteriously started working again :-).

Thanks for the input.

Yippee-ki-yay...
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
unfortunately..if the behavior doesnt exhibit itself at the repair facility then you are somewhat stuck


Warren
I would not dwell on it too much. You can still enjoy your unit for as long as it behaves properly.

Besides, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed, there is no guarantee that what you will get as a replacement or actual repair would be better that what you have now that repaired itself.


Enjoy it while you can, I suppose.
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:57 PM
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Ha Ha Craig,
A) Rolls Royce is a bad example. It always happens to a Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Bentley, Maserati, They are supposed to be tuned up every time after you take them out for a ride.

B) The 4520Ci is perhaps the most defective product that I have seen of late. It could be that it is the most popular and has this thread here.

I personally know of several people and two more have confirmed here that this unit develops problems right out of the box. During the Best Buy Fire sale several buyers had reported DOA Units.

I am glad you have not had any issues with your Denon.
The same person that I know whose 4520Ci dies within Two weeks bought it because his 4311 went on the fritz after two years I believe and then after TWO weeks it mysteriously started working again :-).

Thanks for the input.

Maybe they are one of those folks jamming their AVR's in a tight not ventilated " entertainment center " shelf with a closed glass door. It's impossible to say how most AVR's are treated. Is it on a power conditioner UPS ? Who knows.

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Old 04-29-2015, 03:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Maybe they are one of those folks jamming their AVR's in a tight not ventilated " entertainment center " shelf with a closed glass door. It's impossible to say how most AVR's are treated. Is it on a power conditioner UPS ? Who knows.
Who knows? But I definitely believe that you know that the 4520s have board connector issues.

Who knows? Precisely why I would think that it is better to treat those suffering 4520 issues with more tact and delicacy than casting aspersions as to how they treat their avrs.

Last edited by doognam; 04-29-2015 at 03:33 PM. Reason: restore quotes
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by doognam View Post
Who knows? But I definitely believe that you know that the 4520s have board connector issues.

Who knows? Precisely why I would think that it is better to treat those suffering 4520 issues with more tact and delicacy than casting aspersions as to how they treat their avrs.

I have never heard anything of the kind. We've sold hundreds of Denon recievers - I rarely hear of problems. Onkyo's I hear about much more frequently. And I have had a 4520 in my theater for about 2 years now. With 11 - 4 ohm Martin Logan speakers running off it, and a 2 channel amp. No problems here. If there is a conspiracy, I'm not in on it.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:45 PM
 
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I have never heard anything of the kind. .. . If there is a conspiracy, I'm not in on it.
I believed that you knew because all those proprietors/dealers that I personally know know because the say it's in their interest to know.

Well, I guess not all dealers are the same.

If what you stated is true then I apologise. Please accept my apology.

But I would still suggest to treat those suffering 4520 issues with more tact than blaming them.

Last edited by doognam; 04-29-2015 at 03:46 PM. Reason: remove excess blank lines
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:51 PM
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I believed that you knew because all those proprietors/dealers that I personally know know because the say it's in their interest to know.

Well, I guess not all dealers are the same.


If what you stated is true then I apologise. Please accept my apology.

But I would still suggest to treat those suffering 4520 issues with more tact than blaming them.

Not blaming anyone, but I know folks whom have had various electrical items overheat and get taken out by power surges etc., that can't be blamed on the manufacturer. Also, I don't believe there is a widespread problem with the 4520 - but you seem to. I have not heard back from any of my customers that bought one, that they have had a problem. I suggest you try a Yamaha receiver if you've personally had dis-satisfaction with Denon products. That's all I can tell you.

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Old 04-29-2015, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by doognam View Post
I believed that you knew because all those proprietors/dealers that I personally know know because the say it's in their interest to know.

Well, I guess not all dealers are the same.

If what you stated is true then I apologise. Please accept my apology.

But I would still suggest to treat those suffering 4520 issues with more tact than blaming them.
There are many who stuff a receiver into a small cabinet without sufficient ventilation, or stack components on top, etc....I think Craig was just reminding people that today's avrs need space.

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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Not blaming anyone, but I know folks whom have had various electrical items overheat and get taken out by power surges etc., that can't be blamed on the manufacturer. Also, I don't believe there is a widespread problem with the 4520 - but you seem to. I have not heard back from any of my customers that bought one, that they have had a problem. I suggest you try a Yamaha receiver if you've personally had dis-satisfaction with Denon products. That's all I can tell you.
doognam apparently is a repair tech altho I don't think he's provided much detail in this regard previously. He does seem to have experience with this unit but how many or under what circumstances....
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:09 PM
 
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Not blaming anyone, but I know folks whom have had various electrical items overheat and get taken out by power surges etc., that can't be blamed on the manufacturer..... I suggest you try a Yamaha receiver if you've personally had dis-satisfaction with Denon products. That's all I can tell you.
I wish I can accept your suggestion.
1. I am not in the market for avr's
2. I am perfectly capable of intelligently choosing the products for my needs, and
3. I know now that not all dealers are the same. Some are well-informed, others are not, still others chose not to be, so with due respect I wont be taking advise from you.
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:23 PM
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There are many who stuff a receiver into a small cabinet without sufficient ventilation, or stack components on top, etc....I think Craig was just reminding people that today's avrs need space.



doognam apparently is a repair tech altho I don't think he's provided much detail in this regard previously. He does seem to have experience with this unit but how many or under what circumstances....

Maybe, but the world is full of internet trolls, and people with an axe to grind. For all I know, he's a CEO of Yamaha Corp. USA. Doognam, if you are a repair tech, maybe you should email me your work credentials, the number of 4520's ( and a list with numbers of all other receivers you've repaired ), along with total production numbers for each model repaired ( so we can see the failure rate ), so I can see the big picture.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:29 PM
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I have never heard anything of the kind. We've sold hundreds of Denon recievers - I rarely hear of problems. Onkyo's I hear about much more frequently. And I have had a 4520 in my theater for about 2 years now. With 11 - 4 ohm Martin Logan speakers running off it, and a 2 channel amp. No problems here. If there is a conspiracy, I'm not in on it.

do you carry Yamaha?
if so what has the reliability feedback been vs other brands
I say that because IME....Yamaha has been the most reliable and this also coincides with what I see posted here on AVS
I rarely see anyone ranting about big of a POS their Yamaha is and they will not buy another....as I see with the other Asian brands

I would assume that all brands have owners who dont ventilate it well
I would even go a step further as to say that perhaps the same percentage( among all brands) do so

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Marantz 8801 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Pioneer SC87 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:33 PM
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There are many who stuff a receiver into a small cabinet without sufficient ventilation, or stack components on top, etc....I think Craig was just reminding people that today's avrs need space.
..
I have 4 different AVR's in the same space in my master bedroom over the last 6 years
it is open 20 inches on each side and 2 feet on the top

two units have had issues...the Onkyo 875 and Denon 4520

two units have performed just fine...Pioneer SC37 and Yamaha A3000

Warren
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:33 PM
 
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Maybe, but the world is full of internet trolls, and people with an axe to grind. For all I know, he's a CEO of Yamaha Corp. USA. Doognam, if you are a repair tech, maybe you should email me your work credentials, the number of 4520's ( and a list with numbers of all other receivers you've repaired ), along with total production numbers for each model repaired ( so we can see the failure rate ), so I can see the big picture.
I would wish otherwise but it appears like you have a sinister agenda for me. Thank you.

Mr Decency asks:
1. Aren't you going too personal?
2. Isn't the purpose of this thread to share experiences and/or information?
3. What are the possible big pictures that you imagine?
Perhaps blind people can be helped to see the big picture but not those who refuse to see.
4. Shouldn't you at least first confirm or refute my contributions before having a go at me?
It does not cost much for dealer like yourself to verify the technical information that I share here to those willing to know. So please have them verified first, share us what you learn - and then - just maybe you will also be able to see the big picture.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:38 PM
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3. I know now that not all dealers are the same. Some are well-informed, others are not, still others chose not to be, so with due respect I wont be taking advise from you.
IMO, there's no respect at all in your statement. Of course many more of us won't be taking advise from you...
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:53 PM
 
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IMO, there's no respect at all in your statement. Of course many more of us won't be taking advise from you...
Surely, you can speak for yourself but I think that it is presumptuous and very bad form to speak for others.
I am sure that most people can be helped with good information. I do not much care about those who feel threatened by it. I cannot imagine how an intelligent person gain by speaking for others in a "scientific" forum.

Why are you having a go at me for responding in kind to those giving me unsolicited advice after I tried to contribute meaningful information to those suffering some issues with their 4520?
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:14 PM
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Guys please stop ganging up on Doognam. He was only trying to help me.

Like Turnne said my AVR is in an open location. there is plenty of space all around it and it did fine for 8 months. It is also attached to a Power Supply/Regulator.

Now it is not working and I called Denon and they referred me to a list of Authorized Repair Centers.
None of then are in the Dallas Area. Is that correct? The closest to me is in Austin, TX.

BTW I have a Onkyo 875 that performed like a Champion for almost 9 years and I thought last September that the Denon was going to be an upgrade and it was to a certain extent.
I have a Yamaha RX-V2095 for over 15 years or something and never an issue.

I will be happy when it works again and I will run a fan around it like I did all last Summer.
Nice to have that 3 year warranty.

Thanks.
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:19 PM
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Surely, you can speak for yourself but I think that it is presumptuous and very bad form to prematurely speak for others.
Clearly I was assuming that a respected forum member (Craig) will be taken more seriously than someone who has ~50 posts, many of which are dissing the 4520's build quality, and took a cheap shot at that respected forum member. But yes, that may be presumptuous of me.

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Why are you having a go at me for responding in kind to those giving me unsolicited advice after I tried to contribute meaningful information to those suffering some issues with their 4520?
Maybe if you provided some actual data and/or credentials to back up your claims you would be taken more seriously. Your claims of issues with the 4520's design may very well have some merit, but you can't expect us to just give you the benefit of the doubt on those claims given your limited history on this forum. It isn't Craig's responsibility to provide data to prove your claims, especially since his experience in selling a lot of 4520's with few or no problems would seem to refute your claims, that's your job.
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:00 PM
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I would not dwell on it too much. You can still enjoy your unit for as long as it behaves properly.

Besides, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed, there is no guarantee that what you will get as a replacement or actual repair would be better that what you have now that repaired itself.


Enjoy it while you can, I suppose.
no worries

those are exactly the thoughts I have
I think I have the right expectations for the 4520

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Marantz 8801 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:14 PM
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do you carry Yamaha?
if so what has the reliability feedback been vs other brands
I say that because IME....Yamaha has been the most reliable and this also coincides with what I see posted here on AVS
I rarely see anyone ranting about big of a POS their Yamaha is and they will not buy another....as I see with the other Asian brands

I would assume that all brands have owners who dont ventilate it well
I would even go a step further as to say that perhaps the same percentage( among all brands) do so

Warren

We carry Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer and Parasound. Yamaha builds great audio gear - I have three Yamaha PS systems that have survived 3 trips to Burning Man and still work perfectly. That said, I sell 20 Denons for every Yamaha receiver. So you will have more Denon's need servicing just due to sheer numbers.
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:18 PM
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I have 4 different AVR's in the same space in my master bedroom over the last 6 years
it is open 20 inches on each side and 2 feet on the top

two units have had issues...the Onkyo 875 and Denon 4520

two units have performed just fine...Pioneer SC37 and Yamaha A3000

Warren

And so it goes in the world of electronics. I had my first Blu Ray player - a Panasonic ( which cost over $ 500.00 at the time ) die 2 months out of warranty. Fact is, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a 4520 at this point - it is long discontinued, and I don't believe in ( nor do we sell ) refurbs.
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Clearly I was assuming that a respected forum member (Craig) will be taken more seriously than someone who has ~50 posts, many of which are dissing the 4520's build quality, and took a cheap shot at that respected forum member. But yes, that may be presumptuous of me.

Maybe if you provided some actual data and/or credentials to back up your claims you would be taken more seriously. Your claims of issues with the 4520's design may very well have some merit, but you can't expect us to just give you the benefit of the doubt on those claims given your limited history on this forum. It isn't Craig's responsibility to provide data to prove your claims, especially since his experience in selling a lot of 4520's with few or no problems would seem to refute your claims, that's your job.

I do not subscribe to your idea that I should freely give my respect to someone who has had a go at me regardless of how regarded that person is to you.

I like and I try to give meaningful and verifiable information to those that can be helped. I do not feel the need to satisfy the likes of people who would feel threatened by the technical information that I provide that I believed every dealer could readily have, if they chose to.

Of course, I appreciate that I could not please everyone because of the very technical nature of the "beast" to the degree that some would find beyond their ability to really understand. It is not my fault. But to go at me for this is uncalled for and a bit low in my estimation.

Respect? It must be earned.
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by doognam View Post
I would wish otherwise but it appears like you have a sinister agenda for me. Thank you.

Mr Decency asks:
1. Aren't you going too personal?
2. Isn't the purpose of this thread to share experiences and/or information?
3. What are the possible big pictures that you imagine?
Perhaps blind people can be helped to see the big picture but not those who refuse to see.
4. Shouldn't you at least first confirm or refute my contributions before having a go at me?
It does not cost much for dealer like yourself to verify the technical information that I share here to those willing to know. So please have them verified first, share us what you learn - and then - just maybe you will also be able to see the big picture.

Not trying to get personal - but you could send me your professional contact info - mines right here. Or find me on Linked In !

AV Science, Inc. Direct (585) 671-2972 craig@avscience.com www.avscience.com Like us on Facebook

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Old 04-29-2015, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
I do not subscribe to your idea that I should freely give my respect to someone who has had a go at me regardless of how regarded that person is to you.

I like and I try to give meaningful and verifiable information to those that can be helped. I do not feel the need to satisfy the likes of people who would feel threatened by the technical information that I provide that I believed every dealer could readily have, if they chose to.

Of course, I appreciate that I could not please everyone because of the very technical nature of the "beast" to the degree that some would find beyond their ability to really understand. It is not my fault. But to go at me for this is uncalled for and a bit low in my estimation.

Respect? It must be earned.

That's all I asked for - since you seem to be in the industry. But I'll ask my other sources. And, in the mean time, I'll crank my 4520 up and enjoy it, since it's been trouble free since I bought it. Thanks.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
We carry Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer and Parasound. Yamaha builds great audio gear - I have three Yamaha PS systems that have survived 3 trips to Burning Man and still work perfectly. That said, I sell 20 Denons for every Yamaha receiver. So you will have more Denon's need servicing just due to sheer numbers.
interesting...as I think Yamaha is doing better financially than D&M...as is Onkyo as well

though this could be due to a lot of other factors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
And so it goes in the world of electronics. I had my first Blu Ray player - a Panasonic ( which cost over $ 500.00 at the time ) die 2 months out of warranty. Fact is, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a 4520 at this point - it is long discontinued, and I don't believe in ( nor do we sell ) refurbs.
I personally bought mine while they were still current
If the remaining new 4520's are somehow sub par that speaks to D&M as a company

Warren
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:48 AM
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CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF THERE IS AN AUTHORIZED DENON REPAIR FACILITY IN DALLAS PLEASE!!!

Thank you! Thank You!

I do believe HEAT is a HUGE issue with the 4520Ci. You can almost Fry an Egg on it after an hour or two if you do not blow a fan on it, at least in the summer months even though you are inside and the A/C is on.

BTW Loveinthehd did you not post that you received TWO DOA 4520Ci's a few thousand posts back when you first bought them? And you had trouble with one of them within the first two weeks. Was that due to stuffing them in cabinets with not enough air circulation as well? ;-) ;-)

Last edited by AVSF458; 04-30-2015 at 06:51 AM. Reason: added to post
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF THERE IS AN AUTHORIZED DENON REPAIR FACILITY IN DALLAS PLEASE!!!

Thank you! Thank You!

I do believe HEAT is a HUGE issue with the 4520Ci. You can almost Fry an Egg on it after an hour or two if you do not blow a fan on it, at least in the summer months even though you are inside and the A/C is on.

BTW Loveinthehd did you not post that you received TWO DOA 4520Ci's a few thousand posts back when you first bought them? And you had trouble with one of them within the first two weeks. Was that due to stuffing them in cabinets with not enough air circulation as well? ;-) ;-)
Not Dallas, but Pyramid Audio in Austin is a highly-regarded authorized Denon repair facility. I had a board replaced in my 4520 by Pyramid, and they did a great job with a reasonably quick turn-around (about a week).

http://www.pyramid-audio.com/
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