The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 409 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12241 of 13418 Old 05-10-2015, 01:40 PM
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OK, guys, time to cool down. I have reported this exchange to the moderators.
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post #12242 of 13418 Old 05-10-2015, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
OK, guys, time to cool down. I have reported this exchange to the moderators.
Why would you report this mild exchange? That's just a bit too nannyish....
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post #12243 of 13418 Old 05-10-2015, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
OK, guys, time to cool down. I have reported this exchange to the moderators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Why would you report this mild exchange? That's just a bit too nannyish....

The reason/motivation could be that of an incident in the Audessy thread where he was ... for trying to/ or "flaming" me for my incomplete knowledge of all acceptable/accepted Audessy calibration practices; specifically that of "accepted practice of manually adjusting Audessy-calibrated sub distances for better results".
I really did not know before then that that was one accepted practice before I contributed to the thread my desperate experiment to overcome some of the objectionable sound artefacts that Audessy made in my own, perhaps unique, set up.

Last edited by doognam; 05-10-2015 at 03:43 PM. Reason: add context
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post #12244 of 13418 Old 05-10-2015, 04:09 PM
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Hey, for those with moms still alive, or married with kids, how did you celebrate Mother's Day with them?

I made breakfast for our family, and ended up buying take out dinner.

Trying to get OT discussion, the heavy discussion here kinda degraded too much.

Remember, it's just a web forum, people read advice and then make their own informed choices,
All members should have read the TOS, basically reader beware, the advice given here is just that, free advice.


Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP
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post #12245 of 13418 Old 05-10-2015, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
The reason/motivation could be that of an incident in the Audessy thread where he was ... for trying to/ or "flaming" me for my incomplete knowledge of all acceptable/accepted Audessy calibration practices; specifically that of "accepted practice of manually adjusting Audessy-calibrated sub distances for better results".
I really did not know before then that that was one accepted practice before I contributed to the thread my desperate experiment to overcome some of the objectionable sound artefacts that Audessy made in my own, perhaps unique, set up.
Let's be clear. We had an exchange in the Audyssey thread because you were too lazy to avail yourself of the wealth of information in that thread (the excellent FAQ, for example). Several other posters agreed with me at the time.

Today, I am simply offended by the unprofessional exchanges between you and Audio4life, which is why I asked you to stop. There is no connection between the two incidents, and to imply that I harbor any resentment towards you would be false. Let's move on.
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post #12246 of 13418 Old 05-10-2015, 04:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Let's be clear. We had an exchange in the Audyssey thread because you were too lazy to avail yourself of the wealth of information in that thread (the excellent FAQ, for example). Several other posters agreed with me at the time.

Today, I am simply offended by the unprofessional exchanges between you and Audio4life, which is why I asked you to stop. There is no connection between the two incidents, and to imply that I harbor any resentment towards you would be false. Let's move on.
I admit to being lazy to accept second-hand beliefs. I admit not to know all your scientific contributions, too.

The "unprofessional exchange" with Audio4life is all there for everyone to see. I think that it is relatively mild. I am sorry that you are offended.

My aim in the exchange was to clarify with Audio4life that he was mis-understanding, mis-interpreting, or mis-representing what I contributed. I guess I was not succeeding with this aim, so I simply tried to make sense as to why.

Anyway, let's move on. I wish everyone all the best in this forum.

Also, please still feel free to ask me any technical information about the 4520. I may be able to help but, of course, only you should be responsible for your actions.

Last edited by doognam; 05-10-2015 at 04:55 PM. Reason: ..
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post #12247 of 13418 Old 05-10-2015, 06:39 PM
 
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I'll go ahead and say that ANYONE who wants to take the adventurous step of trying to fix an issue on the 4520 should NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TINKER UNDER THE HOOD WHILE THE UNIT IS PLUGGED IN. This is something that doognam should be repeating instead of suggesting leaving the cover off while it's running in case it acts up again, or to point out which harnesses may have house voltage.

As we don't know your skill level at trouble shooting electronics and such, it's best to only undertake what Doognam so quickly suggests if you have more than a basic understanding of electricity. Being able to work a screw driver by itself is not an adequate skill level. You can easily damage your expensive AVR, and any sign that you've removed the cover WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY, something else that should be mentioned while mentioning that what you do is your own responsibility.

Getting electrocuted a real danger, as is something we in the know call "letting the smoke out" of your electronics.
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post #12248 of 13418 Old 05-10-2015, 08:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I'll go ahead and say that ANYONE who wants to take the adventurous step of trying to fix an issue on the 4520 should NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TINKER UNDER THE HOOD WHILE THE UNIT IS PLUGGED IN. This is something that doognam should be repeating instead of suggesting leaving the cover off while it's running in case it acts up again, or to point out which harnesses may have house voltage.
...
Getting electrocuted a real danger, as is something we in the know call "letting the smoke out" of your electronics.
I agree entirely with your concern for safety.
But I am sorry to say that I cannot agree to the "NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" part because there are circumstances when it is necessary to tinker under the hood while the unit is plugged and powered up.
However, in the interest of safety, I would not recommend anyone with insufficient knowledge and/or knowhow to perform dangerous activities or place themselves in dangerous situations.

Also, I would say that I am not qualified to determine whether or not one is sufficiently qualified to carry out dangerous activities. Even taking a shower could be dangerous to some. So I would leave it to whoever is concerned to determine for himself whether or not he can safely do any activity that I have suggested or may suggest in the future.
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post #12249 of 13418 Old 05-12-2015, 12:24 PM
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This is the longest stream of pi$$ I've seen in a thread in a while. Nice.
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post #12250 of 13418 Old 05-12-2015, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
This is the longest stream of pi$$ I've seen in a thread in a while. Nice.
Oddly enough, I usually come here for information about audio equipment, and am not accustomed to seeing personal attacks in a discussion forum
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Denon AVR-4520ci, Polk Rti12's, Csi3, Fxi4 surrounds, some Klipsch subs... Bedroom: Lsi9's on an Onkyo TX-8050
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post #12251 of 13418 Old 05-12-2015, 08:23 PM
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I'm lazy so I don't know if this is a easy thing or not possible.

I have all working ok but the OSD with the Satelitte from the DirecTV Genie DVR.
Is it because I have the pass through set or something else?
The other inputs work fine for OSD.
When I don't use the receiver I have the TV hooked up to some self powered speakers (KEF X300A) for casual listening.
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post #12252 of 13418 Old 05-14-2015, 08:59 AM
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Just snagged an "open-box" (not a refurb) 4520CI from A4Less for $899. WITH the full 3 year Denon warranty!


Can't wait for it to show up on Friday. Now I just need to figure out my speaker situation (leaning towards SVS Ultras) and I'll be all set!
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post #12253 of 13418 Old 05-18-2015, 01:08 PM
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I have the denon 4520i and the svs ultra towers, it's a very good sound for music and movies.
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post #12254 of 13418 Old 05-18-2015, 07:50 PM
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I am interested on 4520CI , it is being discounted and within my "budget" , i can purchase a refurb. for $799 and a new one for $999 , my question , is Denon still providing firmware updates for this unit,i know my H/K was abandon by H/K fairly quickly , i would hope that a Top Model would receive support longer , is that a bad assumption ? Also any comments on DSX ; X sound and performance , Thanks for your comments and suggestions , William
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post #12255 of 13418 Old 05-18-2015, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Denon will occasionally provide firmware updates to older (out of production) models but its typically on rare occasions where there is a bug fix needed. By the end of life of a unit most of the kinks are worked out so don't expect many further updates at this point.
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post #12256 of 13418 Old 05-18-2015, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Colon View Post
I am interested on 4520CI , it is being discounted and within my "budget" , i can purchase a refurb. for $799 and a new one for $999 , my question , is Denon still providing firmware updates for this unit,i know my H/K was abandon by H/K fairly quickly , i would hope that a Top Model would receive support longer , is that a bad assumption ? Also any comments on DSX ; X sound and performance , Thanks for your comments and suggestions , William
4520 hasn't had an update in quite a while....check out post 4 of this thread for the firmware update details for this avr. If everything works why would you need a continued stream of firmware updates?
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post #12257 of 13418 Old 05-19-2015, 02:30 PM
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We're picking up a 2015 Samsung JS8500 here shortly but now I'm wondering if the AVR-4520CI will need replaced.

For 4k content I will just have a DirecTV Genie HD box and a PC. I guess the TV itself has Netflix etc but I've never had much luck getting ARC to work right with my previous TV anyway, curious to see if the Denon and Samsung will play nice or not. Is ARC incompatible with the thin Monoprice Redmere cables perhaps? Although I swore I tried it with a normal (monoprice) "HDMI hi-speed" cable too.

I suspect the tv's 4k upscaling is a better algorithm, is there a way to tell the Denon to not do the upscaling itself?

The Denon manual does mention doing pass-through of 4k and "deep color" but I'm not sure what that means in real world terms considering the new HDMI spec isn't finalized or what not yet (if I am remembering correctly).. Maybe the Denon would pass-through the "base layer" of HDR data but not the second layer?
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post #12258 of 13418 Old 05-19-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Sadus View Post
We're picking up a 2015 Samsung JS8500 here shortly but now I'm wondering if the AVR-4520CI will need replaced.

For 4k content I will just have a DirecTV Genie HD box and a PC. I guess the TV itself has Netflix etc but I've never had much luck getting ARC to work right with my previous TV anyway, curious to see if the Denon and Samsung will play nice or not. Is ARC incompatible with the thin Monoprice Redmere cables perhaps? Although I swore I tried it with a normal (monoprice) "HDMI hi-speed" cable too.

I suspect the tv's 4k upscaling is a better algorithm, is there a way to tell the Denon to not do the upscaling itself?

The Denon manual does mention doing pass-through of 4k and "deep color" but I'm not sure what that means in real world terms considering the new HDMI spec isn't finalized or what not yet (if I am remembering correctly).. Maybe the Denon would pass-through the "base layer" of HDR data but not the second layer?
You are reasonably OK for now with the 4520. It will pass a 4K signal, and the 4K up scaling can be turned on or off on a per-input basis. However, sometime down the road new 4K devices requiring HDMI 2.0 and/or HDCP 2.2 content protection will be coming into the market. At that time, you may not be capable of taking advantage of those new technologies, depending on how they are implemented.

My advice would be to defer replacing the 4520 until things become clearer later this year. Newer AVR models may be available at that time that would be a better choice than what is available today. I speak from a position of experience, since I have a Sony 4K display, a Sony 4K media server, and a Marantz 8801 (which is essentially the same as the 4520). All play nicely together for now. 4K UHD Blu-Ray will likely change the landscape later this year.
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post #12259 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 03:42 AM
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Just got the 4520 from accessories 4 less and have a few questions.

The set up mic that came isn't picking up any audio so I believe it's faulty, I used an old onkyo sr607 set up mic for audyssey. It seems to have worked fine, am I losing any benefits from using the old mic?

I set the remote up to work with my time warner cable box but for the life of me I can't find a TV Guide button. Any suggestions?
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post #12260 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Joncat84 View Post
Just got the 4520 from accessories 4 less and have a few questions.

The set up mic that came isn't picking up any audio so I believe it's faulty, I used an old onkyo sr607 set up mic for audyssey. It seems to have worked fine, am I losing any benefits from using the old mic?

I set the remote up to work with my time warner cable box but for the life of me I can't find a TV Guide button. Any suggestions?

Was this 4520 purchased New or Refurbished?


...Glenn
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post #12261 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 05:47 AM
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Was this 4520 purchased New or Refurbished?


...Glenn
purchased new
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post #12262 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You are reasonably OK for now with the 4520. It will pass a 4K signal, and the 4K up scaling can be turned on or off on a per-input basis. However, sometime down the road new 4K devices requiring HDMI 2.0 and/or HDCP 2.2 content protection will be coming into the market. At that time, you may not be capable of taking advantage of those new technologies, depending on how they are implemented.

My advice would be to defer replacing the 4520 until things become clearer later this year. Newer AVR models may be available at that time that would be a better choice than what is available today. I speak from a position of experience, since I have a Sony 4K display, a Sony 4K media server, and a Marantz 8801 (which is essentially the same as the 4520). All play nicely together for now. 4K UHD Blu-Ray will likely change the landscape later this year.

Plus, I'm hoping that some of the new 4K UHD players will have dual HDMI output (like my OPPO 103-D) which would allow video direct to the display and HDMI audio direct to the Denon. This should keep the HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 issues out of the AVR.
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post #12263 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Joncat84 View Post
purchased new
Regardless of new or refurbished, the first thing I would do is contact the seller or Denon and have them send you a replacement mic. I believe your Onkyo used the ACM1HB calibration mic, while the AVR-4520 uses the DM-A409 calibration mic. Using a mic that wasn't intended for your AVR isn't a good idea as the AVR isn't calibrated for it. It could screw up the channel levels and/or the EQ adjustments.
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post #12264 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I believe your Onkyo used the ACM1HB calibration mic, while the AVR-4520 uses the DM-A409 calibration mic. Using a mic that wasn't intended for your AVR isn't a good idea as the AVR isn't calibrated for it.
Hi gsr, by my understanding both model microphone are idential.
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post #12265 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 10:49 AM
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More problems in my Denon 4520CI saga.


Now I have intermittent times when my Denon 4520CI just completely loses video output over HDMI 1. Sometimes a power cycle fixes it, last night, and one other time I couldn't get it to come on no matter what I did, so I just left it unplugged overnight and it started working again normally the next day.


I'm requesting that Denon actually replace the unit completely with a different model at this point. In my nine months of ownership of this unit - it has actually been out of my possession for 6 months at the shop. I have had a legitimately working unit for about one moth of that nine.


I don't know if they will help me, but I'm going to file a complaint with the better business bureau if they don't acknowledge the problem and try a little harder to make it right then sending me replacement refurb units that also don't work and then shorting my warranty to 1 year from the original 3 year because I now have a refurb unit with a different serial number.




I opened up yet another problem ticket with this information.


Quote:


I purchased a Denon 4520CI new from Amazon on Sept 3, 2014. It has been problem laden nearly the whole time of my ownership. About one month after my purchase the problems began. The unit’s power failed during normal use, made a static sound and then blinked red lights and wouldn't turn on. I took it to the local authorized repair center for repair (AudioMart), got it back after about a month and determined a couple days later that the internet radio would lock up the unit hard, so I had to return the unit to the shop before I could use it again. It took me a couple weeks to find the free time to take it back to the shop. So at this point I had my new unit working for just about the first month of ownership and couple days after the first repair before more problems. The unit apparently had lots of problems and was replaced with a different refurb unit at the District Service center because of the various problems it had. I got the replacement unit back on Feb 18, and quickly determined it didn’t have a working subwoofer 1 output. I quickly returned it to the shop by Feb 20, 2015. So at this point of taking the unit back to the shop again I've had the AVR 6 months and it's only been working and in my possession for a month and a couple days. It goes back into the shop from Feb 20 to April 16. I didn't hook it up through April because I was hosting an audio meet on the last weekend of April and didn't want to swap out my gear for something that wasn't trustworthy yet - so I continued to use my Onkyo 5508 (which has been reliable through the entire time the Denon has been giving me issues). I only recently - a couple weeks ago, swapped back in the Denon 4520CI into my rack and have encountered intermittent video issues since then.
So in 9 months of ownership of this Denon 4520ci flagship unit, I've had just over a month of problem free operation (the first month), and it has actually been out of my possession for 6 months of that nine months at the local shop or District shop. I’ve had to make multiple trips to the local authorized repair shop, to hook up a unit into my rack and discover random problems in the next few days that require more repair work. The new problem with the HDMI video is the reason I am making a new problem ticket and ultimately requesting Denon replace my 4520CI with a different equitable product entirely.
Another frustration I have is that I bought a brand new unit from Amazon, which is an authorized seller, and have been given a refurb unit with many obvious problems and meanwhile adding insult to injury my warranty has been shortened to 1 year to line up with the refurb replacement. So I lost 2 years of warranty and have problem filled unit.
With the current video output failure over the primary HDMI video out, I sometimes can fix it by power cycling the unit. Sometimes I can't. Sometimes leaving it unplugged overnight seems to make it work the next day. I bought this ‘trustworthy’ Denon unit to replace an Onkyo 5508 (which I was worried about utterly failing due to all the bad press online). Ironically the Onkyo 5508 has been steadfast through this Denon's repeated failure and following absences without any issues! This series of failures on the Denon units is wholly unacceptable. I've been very patient with this whole process, but I'm no longer willing to keep this unit. I am now asking for a full replacement new unit of equitable value, or a refund of my purchase price. If a reasonable replacement is not made, I will file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. I have record of each repair attempt with my local authorized repair center, AudioMart which will be attached to this message. You can see my other tickets logged with Denon based on the serial numbers provided below.
Original New Unit Purchased from Amazon on Sept 3, 2014 - s/n is (deleted)
The replacement refurb unit swapped out in Feb 2015, s/n is (deleted)
My confidence is lost in this unit completely, I either want a different model equitable replacement, or I’d like to return the unit for a refund of my purchase price. The hassle and stress associated with this unit has been unreasonable. I should be able to use a flagship receiver without issue for longer than 1 month out of nine without failure. My previous ticket [Incident: 150408-000614]‏ was closed without my permission or approval. With the new HDMI video output issue, I’ve decided I am unwilling to keep a flagship receiver that is consistently unreliable. In each instance the HDMI video has stopped working from the AVR HDMI out, I can plug in any other source unit in my rack directly to the HDMI cable and the projector works fine from a different source. Likewise the Denon, usually works the next day fine. This is not a heat issue, as I have a Sherbourn C-12 2U Fan unit placed above the Denon 4520 and feeling the top of the AVR it is scarcely warm when these issues occur. My Onkyo 1007 and 5508 unit gets much hotter without issue. Without changing anything the Denon 4520CI will typically work after a power cycle or time of being unplugged.
Please acknowledge this issue with a support ticket and instruct me what I can do get a replacement unit of a different equitable model or return for a refund. If I do not hear back from you within one week I will register a complaint against Denon with the Better Business Bureau.
See attached service ticket scans.


PS, Bryan from Audio Mart has gone out of his way to deliver exceptional customer service. I do not fault him at all for this issue. He is a shining spot on an otherwise smudged experience with Denon customer support.




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post #12266 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 11:40 AM
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Archaea that really sucks. Hope Denon does the right thing for you. BBB on the other hand is a turd of an organization.
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post #12267 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 01:41 PM
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I've never filed a complaint with the BBB - but not sure what else to do, and this situation has been one to file for --- if I ever had one.

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post #12268 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
More problems in my Denon 4520CI saga.


Now I have intermittent times when my Denon 4520CI just completely loses video output over HDMI 1. Sometimes a power cycle fixes it, last night, and one other time I couldn't get it to come on no matter what I did, so I just left it unplugged overnight and it started working again normally the next day.


I'm requesting that Denon actually replace the unit completely with a different model at this point. In my nine months of ownership of this unit - it has actually been out of my possession for 6 months at the shop. I have had a legitimately working unit for about one moth of that nine.


I don't know if they will help me, but I'm going to file a complaint with the better business bureau if they don't acknowledge the problem and try a little harder to make it right then sending me replacement refurb units that also don't work and then shorting my warranty to 1 year from the original 3 year because I now have a refurb unit with a different serial number.




I opened up yet another problem ticket with this information.

I feel for ya man!

Did you pay for the 4520 with a credit card?

If so, I would contact your credit card company and tell them the story! There is a very good chance that they might back you and if no joy ultimately allow you a charge back to recoup your funds.

...Glenn

Last edited by Glenn Baumann; 05-23-2015 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Grammatical correction
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post #12269 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 02:37 PM
 
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WARNING! This post requires deeper technical knowledge.
The info could be interesting for those using external amps.

Unlike the Marantz models, the Denon 4520 does not buffer the analog signals.
In the process of retrofitting buffers into the 4520 I discovered THIS: Parts of the PreOut circuits are back-to-front.

I waited until the model's end-of-life before disclosing this info just to avoid being flamed. I hope the info can be put to good use.
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post #12270 of 13418 Old 05-23-2015, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
WARNING! This post requires deeper technical knowledge.
The info could be interesting for those using external amps.

Unlike the Marantz models, the Denon 4520 does not buffer the analog signals.
In the process of retrofitting buffers into the 4520 I discovered THIS: Parts of the PreOut circuits are back-to-front.

I waited until the model's end-of-life before disclosing this info just to avoid being flamed. I hope the info can be put to good use.
Just because the 4520 is at end-of-life doesn't exempt you from being flamed. You drop this turd, yet you don't elaborate on what impact your discovery has, and how it might affect the many users who still have this AVR. TBH, I cannot understand your motivation.
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