The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 410 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #12271 of 12288 Old 05-23-2015, 02:37 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 15
WARNING! This post requires deeper technical knowledge.
The info could be interesting for those using external amps.

Unlike the Marantz models, the Denon 4520 does not buffer the analog signals.
In the process of retrofitting buffers into the 4520 I discovered THIS: Parts of the PreOut circuits are back-to-front.

I waited until the model's end-of-life before disclosing this info just to avoid being flamed. I hope the info can be put to good use.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CapacitveLoad.png
Views:	55
Size:	179.8 KB
ID:	732506   Click image for larger version

Name:	CapacitveLoadTxt.png
Views:	53
Size:	137.3 KB
ID:	732514  
doognam is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12272 of 12288 Old 05-23-2015, 03:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 9,700
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2560 Post(s)
Liked: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
WARNING! This post requires deeper technical knowledge.
The info could be interesting for those using external amps.

Unlike the Marantz models, the Denon 4520 does not buffer the analog signals.
In the process of retrofitting buffers into the 4520 I discovered THIS: Parts of the PreOut circuits are back-to-front.

I waited until the model's end-of-life before disclosing this info just to avoid being flamed. I hope the info can be put to good use.
Just because the 4520 is at end-of-life doesn't exempt you from being flamed. You drop this turd, yet you don't elaborate on what impact your discovery has, and how it might affect the many users who still have this AVR. TBH, I cannot understand your motivation.
kbarnes701 likes this.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #12273 of 12288 Old 05-23-2015, 03:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
...You drop this turd, yet you don't elaborate on what impact your discovery has, and how it might affect the many users who still have this AVR. TBH, I cannot understand your motivation.
Motivation:
I thought this is an Audio-Video SCIENCE FORUM.
@AustinJerry , what is wrong with a scientific and informative post about the avr4520?

My motivation is to give actionable technical information that could be very useful for those with enough technical ability so that they could improve their 4520s. It could be very easy for them to fix the fault and noticeably improve the sonic qualities of the 4520.
For those adventurous enough, they can extend its useful life by making it sound better by fixing its faults that negatively affect the sq, IF THEY WISH. If the attempt fails in a disaster then perhaps its time to update to a new model (as it is at its eol anyway).

As to how it may affect the many users - imo, it all depends. Those who want this kind of technical info and even unsavoury truth they would be satisfied if not thankful that they got it. To those that cannot handle it, what can I do? The facts remain.

Last edited by doognam; 05-23-2015 at 07:21 PM. Reason: add example of use this info
doognam is online now  
post #12274 of 12288 Old 05-23-2015, 03:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 9,356
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1429 Post(s)
Liked: 1811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I've never filed a complaint with the BBB - but not sure what else to do, and this situation has been one to file for --- if I ever had one.
They're just a private sales oriented organization doing semi-strong arm sales tactics on businesses with limited public benefit. Getting accredited means buying in so you can get higher ratings. Pseudo government name (bureau my ass). Reminds me of some of the charlatans in audio. Waste of time and money IMHO. You could do more damage to Denon's rep right here on AVS....
lovinthehd is online now  
post #12275 of 12288 Old 05-23-2015, 09:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RapalloAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 2,200
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Liked: 88
We have just setup my old 4520 that I used to use in my cinema, now in the lounge. This time we set it up without RS232 on the ipad.


Ive found that we have very Unreliable IP Control. Sometimes when I turn everything on the 4520 will come on, sometimes not. When I shutdown everything, sometimes the 4520 will shutdown, sometimes not.....


Its all very hit and miss!


Has anyone else had a similar issue?

Murray Thompson
X Owner RapalloAV
CinemascopE Home Cinema Build
RapalloAV is online now  
post #12276 of 12288 Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
laserjock II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
Motivation:
I thought this is an Audio-Video SCIENCE FORUM.
@AustinJerry , what is wrong with a scientific and informative post about the avr4520?

My motivation is to give actionable technical information that could be very useful for those with enough technical ability so that they could improve their 4520s. It could be very easy for them to fix the fault and noticeably improve the sonic qualities of the 4520.
For those adventurous enough, they can extend its useful life by making it sound better by fixing its faults that negatively affect the sq, IF THEY WISH. If the attempt fails in a disaster then perhaps its time to update to a new model (as it is at its eol anyway).

As to how it may affect the many users - imo, it all depends. Those who want this kind of technical info and even unsavoury truth they would be satisfied if not thankful that they got it. To those that cannot handle it, what can I do? The facts remain.
Do you have this receiver, @doognam ?
laserjock II is offline  
post #12277 of 12288 Old Yesterday, 01:13 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Do you have this receiver, @doognam ?
Yes
doognam is online now  
post #12278 of 12288 Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
...
yet you don't elaborate on what impact your discovery has...
@AustinJerry, it appears like you did not read the second attachment of my post. Anyway, since it is supposed to be for those with deeper technical knowledge, the impact in layman's terms is like "how 100 meters of cheaper audio cable load or make any unbuffered pre-amplifier struggle driving audio signals thru it". That is a guesstimate reckoning at 4.7pf per meter of cable.
The avr4520's volume control/pre-amps are, by a fault in design or execution, already capacitively loaded with 470pf without even an inch of cable attached.

That is the unsavoury truth.
Anyway, it could be actioned upon, if one so wishes, if one has the technical ability or financial resources to do so.

Last edited by doognam; Yesterday at 01:48 PM.
doognam is online now  
post #12279 of 12288 Old Yesterday, 03:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
laserjock II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked: 98
I have about 2.5 yrs left on my warranty so I'll just live with it the way it is or trade it in when I decide to go the pre-pro route.

Does the Marantz 8801 have this same "flaw"?
laserjock II is offline  
post #12280 of 12288 Old Yesterday, 04:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
I have about 2.5 yrs left on my warranty so I'll just live with it the way it is or trade it in when I decide to go the pre-pro route.

Does the Marantz 8801 have this same "flaw"?
I do not have the detailed schematics nor a 8801 unit. I only have its concept diagram so I can only speculate as to its nitty-gritty details.

Most likely not because the 8801 implementation uses the much touted Marantz HDAM buffers that fortifies the relevant downstream circuitry in order to drive whatever kind of cables and amps you connect to it.
doognam is online now  
post #12281 of 12288 Old Yesterday, 06:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 7,568
Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1339 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post
I feel for ya man!

Did you pay for the 4520 with a credit card?

If so, I would contact your credit card company and tell them the story! There is a very good chance that they might back you and if no joy ultimately allow you a charge back to recoup your funds.

...Glenn
Yeah,
I did. I bought it from Amazon though. I wonder how a chargeback works through Amazon? I know I've heard of people getting their account permanently banned for like from ebay/paypal for using a credit card chargeback. I use Amazon too much to have something like that happen. I'm hoping Denon will take care of me, but I doubt they will because they didn't on the last ticket - they just closed it, and they didn't respond to me yesterday, (Saturday, when they were open.)

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is offline  
post #12282 of 12288 Old Today, 06:16 AM
Advanced Member
 
Glenn Baumann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Yeah,
I did. I bought it from Amazon though. I wonder how a chargeback works through Amazon? I know I've heard of people getting their account permanently banned for like from ebay/paypal for using a credit card chargeback. I use Amazon too much to have something like that happen. I'm hoping Denon will take care of me, but I doubt they will because they didn't on the last ticket - they just closed it, and they didn't respond to me yesterday, (Saturday, when they were open.)

Well, good luck and I hope it works out for you!


...Glenn
Glenn Baumann is offline  
post #12283 of 12288 Old Today, 06:39 AM
Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Yes, that is just wrong that you had 3 years (and paid full price for new vs. refurb cost) and they screwed you out of 2 years of warranty. I had a 4310 that had the infamous HDMI & Network card issues that could not be resolved so they sent me a refurb in exchange - the refurb was defective (2 of the HDMI portals worked not at all) and I was finally upgraded & sent a refurb 4311 (I don't think anymore feasible 4310 were in stock. The one 4310 refurb they sent came from not Denon but a retail shop) that (knocks on wood) has been flawless the past year.

I do recommend Denon and Panurgy highly. They took care of me and didn't squabble. It did take time and I did have to bark up alot of trees to get the problem resolved to my (and their) satisfaction, but they did do what was right in the end and ultimately, that is all I ever asked for.

Good luck getting through to Denon. Start climbing the chain of command. It really is the only way.

Main: Mitsubishi 73734 DLP|Amazon Fire TV|Toshiba HD DVD-A35|Panasonic BD65|Denon AVR-4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 DIY Class 'G' 540w 12" Subs|APC H15|Harmony 720 Remote|Linksys E3000 Dual Band N-Router|Linksys SE2500 Ethernet Switch

MBR: Vizio VF550M|Roku 2XS|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Phantom|(Temporary)Dayton Audio SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin PureAV PF30|Harmony 550 Remote
Squirrel! is offline  
post #12284 of 12288 Old Today, 11:50 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I'm having problems too

Mine was always rebooting I sent it for repair , they fix it (oct 2014) 6 month later same problem . It's been at the repair shop for 6 weeks now, supposed to be a faulty HDMI board, they received the board yesterday. Hope I will have it back soon and it will be ok for awhile..
zigggy is online now  
post #12285 of 12288 Unread Today, 01:52 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 22,346
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4223 Post(s)
Liked: 3168
Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
I do not have the detailed schematics nor a 8801 unit. I only have its concept diagram so I can only speculate as to its nitty-gritty details.

Most likely not because the 8801 implementation uses the much touted Marantz HDAM buffers that fortifies the relevant downstream circuitry in order to drive whatever kind of cables and amps you connect to it.
Would you mind spelling out your credentials please - are you a qualified EE, for example? Thanks.
kbarnes701 is online now  
post #12286 of 12288 Unread Today, 01:55 PM
Newbie
 
Joncat84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Regardless of new or refurbished, the first thing I would do is contact the seller or Denon and have them send you a replacement mic. I believe your Onkyo used the ACM1HB calibration mic, while the AVR-4520 uses the DM-A409 calibration mic. Using a mic that wasn't intended for your AVR isn't a good idea as the AVR isn't calibrated for it. It could screw up the channel levels and/or the EQ adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post
Hi gsr, by my understanding both model microphone are idential.
the black denon mic that came with it has ACM1HB written on it. the silver onkyo mic has no model number on it. any other way to tell what microphone the onkyo 607 came with? not seeing anything on onkyos website.
Joncat84 is online now  
post #12287 of 12288 Unread Today, 02:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigggy View Post
Mine was always rebooting I sent it for repair , they fix it (oct 2014) 6 month later same problem . It's been at the repair shop for 6 weeks now, supposed to be a faulty HDMI board, they received the board yesterday. Hope I will have it back soon and it will be ok for awhile..
I hope you'll get back your unit soon.


My experience with rebooting 4520 tells me that they were not faulty hdmi boards but simple loose connection in the 7-pin connectors that bring power to the hdmi board. Of course, replacing the hdmi board could fix the loose connection(s).
The issue with replacing just the hdmi board is that the other connector element with the wire harness from the power supply board could still be loose.

Here is a page from Denon's service manual:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	RebootingAVR4520.png
Views:	5
Size:	204.7 KB
ID:	736490  
doognam is online now  
post #12288 of 12288 Unread Today, 02:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Would you mind spelling out your credentials please - are you a qualified EE, for example? Thanks.
What do you think?

This is a SCIENCE FORUM
I will respond to your personal questions after I have seen evidence that you have at least tried to scientifically verify or rebut my technical posts with the help perhaps of a "qualified EE, for example". How about that @kbarnes701 ?

Why get personal
Thank you for your interest in me.
Why are you so interested in my person @kbarnes701 ? If you have a sinister agenda, I suggest you forget about it because, very likely, you wont succeed.
doognam is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver
Gear in this thread - 4520ci by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off