The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 412 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12331 of 12340 Old Today, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
Like I said, IMO, the perception of sound is very complex and beyond my expertise. I cannot make definitive conclusions as to how each unique individual perceives sound or sonic signatures.
True - but what we need to see here are the measured results after modification. You did make measurements I assume, given that you are clearly of scientific mind and training? How did the output of the unit change after you made the mods?
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post #12332 of 12340 Old Today, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I thought it might be something like that. Unfortunately, that moves a bit outside my depth. Any advice on a trigger outlet with a 1/8" trigger designed for home theater? I wish Denon still had the 120v plugs on the back, it'd be a non-issue!

I use a IPOWER AC 6+ triggered from my 3808 (4520 arrives today). Don't know if this is a solution for you, but they are still available on eBay:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/NILES-IPOWER...item3cf9559933


HTH


Roger

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post #12333 of 12340 Old Today, 10:22 AM
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post #12334 of 12340 Old Today, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
..
Again, the only reason I asked is because you used the Marantz brand as a comparable..but you never gave examples of which model you were using for your information

Warren
Thank you, @turnne1 , for the opportunity to state my reasons why.

I did not specify the model simply because all Marantz models in the same category as to $Price and/or functionality use buffers. The 8801 model definitely uses HDAMs, the lower models use either HDAMs and/or opamps. In any case, all Marantz models that I subjectively thought worthy of consideration use buffers.

From memory, which I admit is no longer as sharp as before, I think that all the models that I referred to above (except for the 8801 which I no longer have detailed schematics of) go as far as using buffers at both ends, front and back, of the volume control circuitry to ensure that the analog signals do not get corrupted both inside the unit and up to the point the analog signals arrive for amplification in the external amplifiers.

Perhaps, it is safe to conclude that using buffers is in Marantz's DNA.

Regards,
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post #12335 of 12340 Old Today, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JChin View Post
Hi Joncat84, you are good to run auto setup with that mic. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
thank you for your help!
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post #12336 of 12340 Old Today, 02:35 PM
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Before the goalposts get shifted too far, please let me just try to put them back.

WARNING! This post may require deeper technical knowledge than the norm in this forum.

Unlike the Marantz models, the Denon 4520 does not buffer the analog signals.
In the process of retrofitting buffers into the 4520 I discovered THIS: Parts of the PreOut circuits are back-to-front.

Images and some texts attached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
What the technical info means in layman's terms is that the 4520 is already struggling with the equivalent of 100 meters of cable even when no cable is connected yet (based on 4.7pf per meter of cable guesstimate).

Not much can be done really except ... get it fixed, live with it, or ...

It is what it is.

Please consult your own experts if you need more details than I have supplied already.
Alternatively, you can politely request for clarifications and I will try to address them.

Thanks,
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post #12337 of 12340 Old Today, 02:52 PM
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I am sooo not going there again.
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AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #12338 of 12340 Old Today, 03:16 PM
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As to how a herder can home in on the cows "moo" sonic signature to pick it during a double-blind test:

Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Only if said cow had 470pF caps hooked up to each udder.. ;-p


I for one won't be de soldering anything from my 4520.

I haven't hooked up my external amp yet but when I do, I'll listen for any abnormalities then.
I feel very flattered! Thanks @laserjock II for the compliment regardless of how you intended it.

I like the very humorous but constructive spirit that you are taking it.

I really appreciate your post. I hope I see more very intelligent posts like this.

Regards and thanks again,
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post #12339 of 12340 Old Today, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Again, you are moving the goalposts. I am not interested in the perception of sound right now. I am interested in the objective reality of the result of your suggested modification - so what is it? What evidence do you have that removing components from the 4520 makes an audible or measurable difference?

I am sure you can see that nobody is going to open up their 4520 and start desoldering components unless there is some clear, measured evidence that an audible difference will result?
I think the word is subjective in this context

whenever people start using words/terms like "soundstage" and "sonic signature" those are standard bearers for subjectivity and opinion

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Marantz 8801 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Pioneer SC77 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #12340 of 12340 Unread Today, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doognam View Post
Unlike the Marantz models, the Denon 4520 does not buffer the analog signals.
,
and here we go with this again....
what specific Marantz models?...or do all of them have said difference?

as I said before...I have the denon 4520 and the Marantz 8801

If I were a betting man...I think I would hard pressed to tell the difference in a double blind in the 8801 and the 4520( with the 4520 used as a preamp)

In fact..if I still had my old Onkyo 5509..I would bet I would fail a double blind discerning the three from each other with Audyssey engaged

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Marantz 8801 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Pioneer SC77 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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