The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 413 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #12361 of 12383 Old Today, 12:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1472 Post(s)
Liked: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
No, it isn't unfortunately. I bought it as a refurbished unit from accessories4less a few years ago. Refurbished only comes with a 1 year warranty. Has worked flawlessly up until this and still works for everything but sound as the amps are not turning on. Since it wasn't under warranty and I don't have a Denon service center anywhere near me, I just picked up a lower end model locally and have been using it for the past few months. It seems to be serving our needs just fine as the 4520 was way more than I actually needed.

Anyway, thought someone might pop up with a quick "oh yeah, that is a common issue" type response that gave me some direction. If it is a cheap fix, common issue type thing, I might would just sell it as is, but didn't know.
If under two years check to see if the credit card you used extended the 1 year warranty by another year....
lovinthehd is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12362 of 12383 Old Today, 12:59 PM
Newbie
 
txbonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
If under two years check to see if the credit card you used extended the 1 year warranty by another year....
Unfortunately another strike out as I used paypal to pay.
txbonds is offline  
post #12363 of 12383 Old Today, 01:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1472 Post(s)
Liked: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
Unfortunately another strike out as I used paypal to pay.
Why would you do that?
lovinthehd is online now  
post #12364 of 12383 Old Today, 01:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
laserjock II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 868
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 246 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
Anyone have an idea of what would cause my 4520 to stop turning on the amps? Everything else works but it doesn't click on the amps any longer for some reason. Almost like a relay or something went out.

I'm trying to decide if its worth fixing or just trying to sell it and let someone else fix it. I already replaced it so I'm not in a hurry but just don't live near a repair facility according to Denon.

Thanks for any tips.
Amps as in external or the one's inside the receiver?
laserjock II is online now  
post #12365 of 12383 Old Today, 01:58 PM
Newbie
 
txbonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Amps as in external or the one's inside the receiver?
The ones inside the unit

It normally makes a click sound when you first turn on and then a few seconds later another click as the amps turn on and sound starts coming out. It's that second click that isn't happening and is why I'm saying it seems like a relay is out. I really have no clue but I've tried the reset procedures and it makes no difference. All other features seem to be working though including the video and what not.
txbonds is offline  
post #12366 of 12383 Old Today, 02:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my home theater ( when I'm not rock climbing, cycling or kayaking ) - Sacramento CA area
Posts: 6,673
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 860 Post(s)
Liked: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
No, it isn't unfortunately. I bought it as a refurbished unit from accessories4less a few years ago. Refurbished only comes with a 1 year warranty. Has worked flawlessly up until this and still works for everything but sound as the amps are not turning on. Since it wasn't under warranty and I don't have a Denon service center anywhere near me, I just picked up a lower end model locally and have been using it for the past few months. It seems to be serving our needs just fine as the 4520 was way more than I actually needed.

Anyway, thought someone might pop up with a quick "oh yeah, that is a common issue" type response that gave me some direction. If it is a cheap fix, common issue type thing, I might would just sell it as is, but didn't know.
I supposed if just the amps aren't coming on, it would make a decent pre / pro !

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
Craig Peer is offline  
post #12367 of 12383 Old Today, 03:02 PM
Newbie
 
txbonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I supposed if just the amps aren't coming on, it would make a decent pre / pro !
Possibly. I don't have any external amps to test with though. I bought a lower level Onkyo TX-NR636 to replace it. Hooked it up to the exact same cables (except power cord) and it works just fine and all functions are normal, so I don't think it was anything wiring related.

I don't know anything about electronic boards like these have in them but would guess it might be an easy fix but who knows. Is there any easy way to double check the pre-outs and any idea what it would be worth at this point without me paying to get it fixed vs if I did get it fixed? I know they aren't going for anything near the $1499 I paid for it last January 7th (looked it up on their website).

Thanks guys.
txbonds is offline  
post #12368 of 12383 Old Today, 03:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1472 Post(s)
Liked: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
Possibly. I don't have any external amps to test with though. I bought a lower level Onkyo TX-NR636 to replace it. Hooked it up to the exact same cables (except power cord) and it works just fine and all functions are normal, so I don't think it was anything wiring related.

I don't know anything about electronic boards like these have in them but would guess it might be an easy fix but who knows. Is there any easy way to double check the pre-outs and any idea what it would be worth at this point without me paying to get it fixed vs if I did get it fixed? I know they aren't going for anything near the $1499 I paid for it last January 7th (looked it up on their website).

Thanks guys.
Sure you do, you have another receiver. Take an rca cable or two and hook a pre-out on the 4520 up to an analog input on the 636 to see if it works (not really an ideal way to use but will tell you if the preouts are still functional).
lovinthehd is online now  
post #12369 of 12383 Old Today, 04:45 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
ESD would come in the output as if it were an input. The ESD wouldn't come from the volume control chip. So the capacitor is not on the wrong side of the resistor. If it were a low pass filter on the output the capacitor would be on the wrong side of the resistor.

Further you've just said it all. You don't have the datasheet for the volume control. As such you can't make any definitive statement as to whether they're supposed to be there, or if they're placed wrong. It's not like they're using a 2nd order sallen-key op amp filter and the use is obvious.
I have just bought a used 4520 with just a 7-day return clause in the docket.
It being a flagship model, I expect much from it.

But you say there are filters in the preouts of 4520's. Is that what you mean?
CatTerror is offline  
post #12370 of 12383 Old Today, 05:59 PM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 8,051
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 429 Post(s)
Liked: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
Possibly. I don't have any external amps to test with though. I bought a lower level Onkyo TX-NR636 to replace it. Hooked it up to the exact same cables (except power cord) and it works just fine and all functions are normal, so I don't think it was anything wiring related.

I don't know anything about electronic boards like these have in them but would guess it might be an easy fix but who knows. Is there any easy way to double check the pre-outs and any idea what it would be worth at this point without me paying to get it fixed vs if I did get it fixed? I know they aren't going for anything near the $1499 I paid for it last January 7th (looked it up on their website).

Thanks guys.
You can easily check eBay for pricing of used 4520's in working order (take a look at completed auctions - you'll need to sign in to do that). I would guess that one without any problems and in very good cosmetic condition would go for around $800, give or take. One with the amps not working would sell for a LOT less as that's a core function of the AVR. You're going to take a huge beating selling it with problems because a potential buyer isn't going to know if it's as simple as a blown fuse or if there's a major issue and isn't going to be willing to pay much because of that. If I were you, I would send it off to an authorized Denon repair center, get it fixed (or at least get an estimate), and then decide whether to keep it or sell it.
gsr is online now  
post #12371 of 12383 Old Today, 06:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 11,192
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1290 Post(s)
Liked: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatTerror View Post
But you say there are filters in the preouts of 4520's. Is that what you mean?
Maybe. We're not sure what the R's and C's on the output are for. I've suggested they could be a low pass filter for ESD. However from the perspective of the output from the volume chip they're not a low pass filter.
Stereodude is offline  
post #12372 of 12383 Unread Today, 07:27 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Maybe. We're not sure what the R's and C's on the output are for. I've suggested they could be a low pass filter for ESD. However from the perspective of the output from the volume chip they're not a low pass filter.
Thanks you very much for that.

I have only a few hours left to decide whether to return or live with it for what it is worth.

It appears like you know your stuff so I would like to quickly find out more.
Would you know whether or not the C's are directly connected to the FB loop of the volume control chip of the 4520?

I thought this info could help. I downloaded a service manual of a Marantz 8802, not an 8801, from "". Although the part of the Preout diagram looks exactly like the one posted for a Denon, the HDAMs' ouputs are not directly connected into the R's and C's but are fed into 100R's first before going to the R's and C's. The 100R's are drawn as part of the HDAMs.

Can you please comment on this difference, if any? Thanks again in advance.
CatTerror is offline  
post #12373 of 12383 Unread Today, 07:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 11,192
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1290 Post(s)
Liked: 904
It could be a current limiting resistor, or part of a RC low pass filter if there's a resistor before the capacitor between ground and the signal. Perhaps both.
Stereodude is offline  
post #12374 of 12383 Unread Today, 07:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
Elmo C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 687
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Again, you are moving the goalposts. I am not interested in the perception of sound right now. I am interested in the objective reality of the result of your suggested modification - so what is it? What evidence do you have that removing components from the 4520 makes an audible or measurable difference?

I am sure you can see that nobody is going to open up their 4520 and start desoldering components unless there is some clear, measured evidence that an audible difference will result?
Fortunately or unfortunately I did not have to open the TWO new units I had to heart how hideous they sounded. My evidence was my offended ears. Simply the worst avr I ever heard, period, without any doubt. I'm amazed anyone could enjoy this lack luster bomb from Denon. A cheap Onkyo would be a major improvement.
I 'm just assuming since this guy posting his mod was repeatedly attacked, from what I read, and who knows whats been removed as now this sight is evidently beholding to manufacturers. So that's my opinion as an owner/former, do I need a receipt to post? I got one, even two. Do I need a science degree for an opinion that don't tow the line ? Or will the sanitization be automatic?
Elmo C is offline  
post #12375 of 12383 Unread Today, 08:16 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
It could be a current limiting resistor, or part of a RC low pass filter if there's a resistor before the capacitor between ground and the signal. Perhaps both.
Thanks.

I know basic ohms law and I fully understand current limiting effects of the 100R. Also I do not wish to miss the deadline should I decide not to keep it. So, thanks in advance. I appreciate very much your assistance.

What I am interested in really is how having or not having these 100Rs separating the 470pF'sfrom the volume control opamp affect the opamp itself or the sound quality that I will get from it?

The previous poster mentioned severe capacitive loading. Internet searches also produce graphs that show effects of just 5 to 10pF on typical opamps that can deliver at most 35ma.

Can you please comment on the particular aspect of having or not having the 100R to separate the volume control opamp from the 470pF.
CatTerror is offline  
post #12376 of 12383 Unread Today, 08:46 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post
Fortunately or unfortunately I did not have to open the TWO new units I had to heart how hideous they sounded. My evidence was my offended ears. Simply the worst avr I ever heard, period, without any doubt. I'm amazed anyone could enjoy this lack luster bomb from Denon. A cheap Onkyo would be a major improvement.
I 'm just assuming since this guy posting his mod was repeatedly attacked, from what I read, and who knows whats been removed as now this sight is evidently beholding to manufacturers. So that's my opinion as an owner/former, do I need a receipt to post? I got one, even two. Do I need a science degree for an opinion that don't tow the line ? Or will the sanitization be automatic?
Thanks, @Elmo C .

I really wanted to keep a "flagship model" that is affordable but other considerations are also important to me. I have to go before I miss the deadline, then book to actually audition some. Can you recommend anything for me to add for my list to audition?
CatTerror is offline  
post #12377 of 12383 Unread Today, 09:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
csnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 521
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds View Post
Possibly. I don't have any external amps to test with though. I bought a lower level Onkyo TX-NR636 to replace it. Hooked it up to the exact same cables (except power cord) and it works just fine and all functions are normal, so I don't think it was anything wiring related.

I don't know anything about electronic boards like these have in them but would guess it might be an easy fix but who knows. Is there any easy way to double check the pre-outs and any idea what it would be worth at this point without me paying to get it fixed vs if I did get it fixed? I know they aren't going for anything near the $1499 I paid for it last January 7th (looked it up on their website).

Thanks guys.
Call Denon and find out where your closest repair shop is. I had one of the surround channels short out (banana plugs came out) and the amp would power on and then click off. The diagnostic fee was only $40. If they fixed it, the $40 went to the repair. I ended up fixing mine because I really like the amp but it will definitely be worth $40 because it may be an easy fix. If you can't find a shop that does that, PM me and I can get the shop here in San Antonio to work with you but this would add shipping costs.

HTH,

Chris

It's not that I don't like people, I just don't like stupid people. Therefore, I have few friends.
csnow is online now  
post #12378 of 12383 Unread Today, 09:06 PM
Senior Member
 
paligap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post
Fortunately or unfortunately I did not have to open the TWO new units I had to heart how hideous they sounded. My evidence was my offended ears. Simply the worst avr I ever heard, period, without any doubt. I'm amazed anyone could enjoy this lack luster bomb from Denon. A cheap Onkyo would be a major improvement.
I 'm just assuming since this guy posting his mod was repeatedly attacked, from what I read, and who knows whats been removed as now this sight is evidently beholding to manufacturers. So that's my opinion as an owner/former, do I need a receipt to post? I got one, even two. Do I need a science degree for an opinion that don't tow the line ? Or will the sanitization be automatic?
Hyperbole bombs like this are always amusing. You're entitled to have and express your opinion of the receiver, but your condescension is uncalled for, and your charges of bias and persecution have no basis. Plenty of posters have criticized this receiver and the company who made it, but others do not share their experiences or opinions. Is asking someone who claims a mod improved the performance of the receiver for scientific evidence of that improvement an attack?

Samsung PN60f8500
Oppo BDP-103D
Denon 4520
Custom UFW-15 (2)
Rocket RS850 (2), Rocket Bigfoot Center, Rocket RSS300 (2), Rocket RS250MKII (4)
paligap is online now  
post #12379 of 12383 Unread Today, 09:10 PM
Senior Member
 
paligap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by csnow View Post
Call Denon and find out where your closest repair shop is. I had one of the surround channels short out (banana plugs came out) and the amp would power on and then click off. The diagnostic fee was only $40. If they fixed it, the $40 went to the repair. I ended up fixing mine because I really like the amp but it will definitely be worth $40 because it may be an easy fix. If you can't find a shop that does that, PM me and I can get the shop here in San Antonio to work with you but this would add shipping costs.

HTH,

Chris
There's a repair shop in SA? Good to know. I thought the closest one is in Austin.

Samsung PN60f8500
Oppo BDP-103D
Denon 4520
Custom UFW-15 (2)
Rocket RS850 (2), Rocket Bigfoot Center, Rocket RSS300 (2), Rocket RS250MKII (4)
paligap is online now  
post #12380 of 12383 Unread Today, 09:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
csnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 521
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post
Fortunately or unfortunately I did not have to open the TWO new units I had to heart how hideous they sounded. My evidence was my offended ears. Simply the worst avr I ever heard, period, without any doubt. I'm amazed anyone could enjoy this lack luster bomb from Denon. A cheap Onkyo would be a major improvement.
I 'm just assuming since this guy posting his mod was repeatedly attacked, from what I read, and who knows whats been removed as now this sight is evidently beholding to manufacturers. So that's my opinion as an owner/former, do I need a receipt to post? I got one, even two. Do I need a science degree for an opinion that don't tow the line ? Or will the sanitization be automatic?
Just curious, what receiver do you like? I actually love the Denon sound. I used to love Yamaha but then it sounded too bright. The Denon is laid back to me but others may find it dull. Sound is so perceptual to each individual. It doesnt mean the Denon is bad it just means it is bad to you. But to your point, if it is bad to you I wouldnt expect praises either.

It's not that I don't like people, I just don't like stupid people. Therefore, I have few friends.

Last edited by csnow; Today at 09:21 PM.
csnow is online now  
post #12381 of 12383 Unread Today, 09:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
csnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 521
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by paligap View Post
There's a repair shop in SA? Good to know. I thought the closest one is in Austin.
According to Denon, that is true. Bjorn's Audio-Video Home Theater is listed as a "internal" repair facility only or whatever term Denon calls it. Basically, it means they will only work on units that were sold by them. I called them up and they accepted and repaired my unit. I guess a bad economy has some benefits - they need money and aren't going to turn any customer away.
paligap likes this.

It's not that I don't like people, I just don't like stupid people. Therefore, I have few friends.

Last edited by csnow; Today at 09:26 PM.
csnow is online now  
post #12382 of 12383 Unread Today, 09:22 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I haven’t especially noticed people complaining about the 4520's sound quality in any way that might be a result of whatever it is you say affects the sound quality due to the alleged design fault you have commented on. I am happy to be proved wrong if you have references that show otherwise though. BTW, what exactly are the audible issues - is the sound bright, brittle, dull, what?
I do not know how to multi-quote yet. So, just read the surrounding posts if you can.

It's Friday here! Very cold beer would be nice. @kbarnes701 , I think you owe us all a round?
CatTerror is offline  
post #12383 of 12383 Unread Today, 10:44 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by paligap View Post
Hyperbole bombs like this are always amusing. You're entitled to have and express your opinion of the receiver, but your condescension is uncalled for, and your charges of bias and persecution have no basis. Plenty of posters have criticized this receiver and the company who made it, but others do not share their experiences or opinions. Is asking someone who claims a mod improved the performance of the receiver for scientific evidence of that improvement an attack?
I been from a science community of chemists, physicists, etc, from way back so I believe I am qualified to add my 2cents worth.

Asking someone for a scientific evidence is not scientific in itself. The scientific process involves finding out the answers thru experimentation.

Doognam's claims are:

1. Severe capacitive loading due to 470pF. What exactly does he mean?
I searched the internet and found out that he could be right. But that does not mean that he is right because I lack the maths needed to solve them myself. Maybe, it is not important so we go to the bottom line (next claim).

2. Improved 4520 sound after removing the 470pF. This is easy to verify with just a couple of units and decent amplifiers and speakers.

So a simple experiment is required to find out whether or not his claims are true without need to attack anyone.

Does anyone volunteer to perform the needed experiment/s to answer the question or questions that were raised due to @doognam 's mods?

How much is an unmodified 4520 nowadays - maybe all those that are interested to know the answers can chip in - or those selling them to contribute for science and goodwill.
CatTerror is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver
Gear in this thread - 4520ci by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off