The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 419 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12541 of 12558 Old Yesterday, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo44 View Post
Would it be as simple as choosing one of the colored buttons on the remote as opposed to being repeated told I do not know what I am doing and that my gear sucks?
Try this to get started:

1. If you haven't already found the best location for your subwoofer, perform the Subwoofer Crawl to determine it.
2. Assuming you're using the Klipsch SW-15, turn the Low Pass control on the sub to 120Hz or the highest it will go (to effectively take if out of the crossover equation - the AVR will handle it).
3. Run Audyssey. Adjust the Level control on the sub until Audyssey sets a -6 to -9 subwoofer Level setting in the AVR (you'll probably need to rerun the Audyssey #1 position calibration several times.
4. Once Audyssey is complete, change the speaker type to Small (this enables bass management in the AVR).
5. Change the Crossovers for your LCR in the AVR to 80Hz.
6. Increase the Subwoofer Level in the AVR by +6dB (e.g. if the original level was -9, then adjusting by +6 will give you a final setting of -3).
7. Set the LPF of LFE to 120Hz.
8. Set Dynamic Volume (DVol) to DISABLED.
9. Set Low Frequency Containment to DISABLED.
10. Set Dynamic EQ (DEQ) to ENABLED.
11. Listen to some music. If you think the top end is missing a little "sparkle", change the Audyssey curve to Audyssey Flat. YMMV.
12. I find that for movies, I need to reduce the level for the Surrounds by -4dB, otherwise they are overpowering in my setup. YMMV.

Hopefully this will get you close enough where all you'll need to do is some minor tweaking (unless you decide to start doing measurements..that's another rabbit hole altogether). Good luck.
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post #12542 of 12558 Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ss3740 View Post
Lobo 44


Good luck finding your lackluster audio sound coming from that receiver. I had one . In fact 2 . Sent it back for a new one once . Hunted for a couple years trying ,and blaming everything on everything except what it turned out to be.... That 4520 is a piss poor unit for playing music. I finally moved on ,bought something else, and very happy, Should have done it much sooner ... read this article ....Its dead on....


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tdA27gTCoqDPHw
I'm not worried about what the AVR is capable of. I have finally gone ahead and printed the manual (all 250 pages) to finally start to read it. The speakers I have at the moment are not good and are contributing to the problem. I finally started poking around and found the "Tone" option which was hiding the Bass and Treble levels. Made some tweaks and it got a lot better. I'll read the manual and make as many changes as I can to these speakers to get the best sound possible. Hopefully some here will come along and tell me to make a change here and there (like Lovinthehd has) to further help me tweak this system.

After I purchase much better fronts and center speakers I'm positive it will come alive.
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post #12543 of 12558 Old Yesterday, 09:52 PM
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Here is the front of the room and you can see what I am dealing with in terms of speaker placement and places for gear.

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post #12544 of 12558 Old Yesterday, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post
Try this to get started:

1. If you haven't already found the best location for your subwoofer, perform the Subwoofer Crawl to determine it.
2. Assuming you're using the Klipsch SW-15, turn the Low Pass control on the sub to 120Hz or the highest it will go (to effectively take if out of the crossover equation - the AVR will handle it).
3. Run Audyssey. Adjust the Level control on the sub until Audyssey sets a -6 to -9 subwoofer Level setting in the AVR (you'll probably need to rerun the Audyssey #1 position calibration several times.
4. Once Audyssey is complete, change the speaker type to Small (this enables bass management in the AVR).
5. Change the Crossovers for your LCR in the AVR to 80Hz.
6. Increase the Subwoofer Level in the AVR by +6dB (e.g. if the original level was -9, then adjusting by +6 will give you a final setting of -3).
7. Set the LPF of LFE to 120Hz.
8. Set Dynamic Volume (DVol) to DISABLED.
9. Set Low Frequency Containment to DISABLED.
10. Set Dynamic EQ (DEQ) to ENABLED.
11. Listen to some music. If you think the top end is missing a little "sparkle", change the Audyssey curve to Audyssey Flat. YMMV.
12. I find that for movies, I need to reduce the level for the Surrounds by -4dB, otherwise they are overpowering in my setup. YMMV.

Hopefully this will get you close enough where all you'll need to do is some minor tweaking (unless you decide to start doing measurements..that's another rabbit hole altogether). Good luck.
Awesome! thanks. I looked all over and couldn't find #9 . I'll dig through the manual and see if I can find it.
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post #12545 of 12558 Old Yesterday, 10:44 PM
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^^^

Yikes, you have some real challenges with that setup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo44 View Post
Awesome! thanks. I looked all over and couldn't find #9 . I'll dig through the manual and see if I can find it.
Audio -> Audyssey -> Audyssey LFC (set to OFF).

Page 126 of the owner's manual.

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post #12546 of 12558 Old Today, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo44 View Post
Here is the front of the room and you can see what I am dealing with in terms of speaker placement and places for gear.
I can certainly understand and sympathize that you have challenges with your room setup. But I immediately see a number of issues, among them the L and R speakers are in a recessed area and too high up, and the center channel is not really in the center, but directly below the R speaker. I don"t think it should come as a surprise to you that your setup is not optimal. The reality is that you are likely to never be able to achieve very good sound with the current speaker placements, regardless of the type room correction you use. And upgrading the quality of the speakers is unlikely to achieve much improvement either.

Edit: I don't know what freedom you have, but mounting the flat panel over the fireplace, placing the center on the mantle, and placing the L and R on a lower shelf might yield improvement.
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post #12547 of 12558 Old Today, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Edit: I don't know what freedom you have, but mounting the flat panel over the fireplace, placing the center on the mantle, and placing the L and R on a lower shelf might yield improvement.
That would be a huge improvement for the audio, but would have the TV way too high for decent viewing angles and is likely to result in sore necks, especially if the seating distance isn't very far away.
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post #12548 of 12558 Old Today, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
That would be a huge improvement for the audio, but would have the TV way too high for decent viewing angles and is likely to result in sore necks, especially if the seating distance isn't very far away.
True, but there are not many choices in the room as shown.
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post #12549 of 12558 Old Today, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
That would be a huge improvement for the audio, but would have the TV way too high for decent viewing angles and is likely to result in sore necks, especially if the seating distance isn't very far away.
That's actually a comparatively low mantle...I've seen folks around here mount their TVs above much higher mantles. I agree with Jerry, he doesn't have much choice in that room if he wants good audio.
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post #12550 of 12558 Old Today, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo44 View Post
Here is the front of the room and you can see what I am dealing with in terms of speaker placement and places for gear.


Would there be a way to mount the speakers on the shelves so they could be angled down some toward the listeners? Also, the toe-in looks like it might be a little extreme depending on the MLP.
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post #12551 of 12558 Old Today, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jpco View Post
Would there be a way to mount the speakers on the shelves so they could be angled down some toward the listeners? Also, the toe-in looks like it might be a little extreme depending on the MLP.
That doesn't address the most critical issue-the current placement of the center channel.
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post #12552 of 12558 Old Today, 08:47 AM
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Remember, he's talking about stereo music listening though.

As long as his TV is where it's at, I think the center should stay there also.

For listening to music just make sure you're in 2 channel stereo and not some other mode.

If the speakers are rear ported, plugging the port may help also.
Experiment with position, angle to listening position and such.
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post #12553 of 12558 Old Today, 09:16 AM
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@Lobo44 Like the others have said about speaker/tv placement....competing with bric-a-brac isn't good for audio....audio must dominate!

I hope you have some good ventilation in that cabinet where your electronics appear to be in....
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post #12554 of 12558 Old Today, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
@Lobo44 Like the others have said about speaker/tv placement....competing with bric-a-brac isn't good for audio....audio must dominate!

I hope you have some good ventilation in that cabinet where your electronics appear to be in....
I do. I have years of experience from my career in ventilation so this system has one built in. I put in a grill on the right side of the wall and on the inside of the cabinet is two 120mm fans (set on high) that draw air through the grill/wall (then filtered) and blows across both shelves. I ran the 4520 hard the other day for five hours watching two action films. It never got hot since the fans kicked on at 86 degrees and keep running until the unit got below that temp.

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post #12555 of 12558 Old Today, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post
Would there be a way to mount the speakers on the shelves so they could be angled down some toward the listeners? Also, the toe-in looks like it might be a little extreme depending on the MLP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Remember, he's talking about stereo music listening though.

As long as his TV is where it's at, I think the center should stay there also.

For listening to music just make sure you're in 2 channel stereo and not some other mode.

If the speakers are rear ported, plugging the port may help also.
Experiment with position, angle to listening position and such.
Its hard to see but the left speaker has some material under the back of it in an attempt to angle it towards the listener. I used a laser taped to the top to point it in the correct direction. The angle is extreme but it hasn't fallen over yet. I have'nt gotten the right speaker angled as much yet. Some have shown me the products you can buy to angle the speakers but since these are away from eye sight I am going to go to a fabric store, buy some foam and make them myself.

Last edited by Lobo44; Today at 10:12 AM.
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post #12556 of 12558 Old Today, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I can certainly understand and sympathize that you have challenges with your room setup. But I immediately see a number of issues, among them the L and R speakers are in a recessed area and too high up, and the center channel is not really in the center, but directly below the R speaker. I don"t think it should come as a surprise to you that your setup is not optimal. The reality is that you are likely to never be able to achieve very good sound with the current speaker placements, regardless of the type room correction you use. And upgrading the quality of the speakers is unlikely to achieve much improvement either.

Edit: I don't know what freedom you have, but mounting the flat panel over the fireplace, placing the center on the mantle, and placing the L and R on a lower shelf might yield improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
That would be a huge improvement for the audio, but would have the TV way too high for decent viewing angles and is likely to result in sore necks, especially if the seating distance isn't very far away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
That's actually a comparatively low mantle...I've seen folks around here mount their TVs above much higher mantles. I agree with Jerry, he doesn't have much choice in that room if he wants good audio.
For listeners it is just the wife and myself. We do not have kids and we are just in our 40's. I have measured the area above the fireplace and it can take a Samsung 75" - 80" flat screen TV (wink - wink). I have also measure for a center channel speaker as well and it can sit on the mantle with some keen "bracketry" to hold it in place. Then the left and right speakers would be moved to the lower shelves and the right alcove would have a second shelf put in.

Problem is money so we are taking donations to help us improve our sound stage and viewing screen.

I disagree that purchasing higher quality LCR speakers would improve the sound quality. I am looking into several brands to improve what we currently have in place. SVS, Ascend, B&W are just a few that I have been looking at. The Klipsch and Energy speakers I have are desperately mismatched, underpowered and just plain sound like chit in my opinion.
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post #12557 of 12558 Old Today, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Lobo44 View Post

I disagree that purchasing higher quality LCR speakers would improve the sound quality. I am looking into several brands to improve what we currently have in place. SVS, Ascend, B&W are just a few that I have been looking at. The Klipsch and Energy speakers I have are desperately mismatched, underpowered and just plain sound like chit in my opinion.
Let me phrase it differently. If you purchase better speakers, you may, and likely will, hear some improvement. But re-arranging the placement, whether it is with the current speakers, or new speakers, is likely to give you the most significant improvement. If you can do both, that would be ideal.
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post #12558 of 12558 Unread Today, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lobo44 View Post
Problem is money so we are taking donations to help us improve our sound stage and viewing screen.

I disagree that purchasing higher quality LCR speakers would improve the sound quality. I am looking into several brands to improve what we currently have in place. SVS, Ascend, B&W are just a few that I have been looking at. The Klipsch and Energy speakers I have are desperately mismatched, underpowered and just plain sound like chit in my opinion.
Kickstarter campaign? LOL

You disagree, then why shop for new speakers? Doubt you are underpowered with the 4520...
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