The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 426 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #12751 of 12760 Old Yesterday, 08:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bluer101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,537
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Those fans are pretty cool. I had to move the temp sensor to one side near a fan base because the very middle is cool and doesnt match up with the area over the heat sinks. Just watching some football at normal volume, the fan cuts on for about 1 min 45 secs, then off about 2 mins 30 secs, and then back on. pretty cool.

I assume some heat builds up, they turn on and move the hot air out (can tell it cool with my hand in the air coming off the fan) and then shut back off.
I have my 1 140mm fan in the center right between where you have them. That's right between both sides of the heat sinks. Mine runs all the time when the receiver is on. It make the surface of the receiver at 100 degrees or lower even when watching power hungry movies.
gadgtfreek likes this.

My Builds--Media console build---- Martycube build---- ADX Bass Shaker Install

Projector & Screen: Benq W1070 Elite Screens 100" Electric Video: Oppo 103d Audio: Denon 4520ci Speakers: Infinity RS5 (LW L C R RW) Infinity RS1 (LH RH) Infinity Beta ES250 (SL SR) Subwoofers: 2 SI18d4 Martycubes with iNuke3000dsp and 2 Infinity BU120 Shakers: 4 ADX shakers with Dayton SA230 amp
bluer101 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12752 of 12760 Old Today, 05:09 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 12,231
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1951 Post(s)
Liked: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
IMO, reference is 75db at master volume from your speakers with the -30db tone, and 75db from the sub(s) with the -40db tone. If the after Audyssey result does not yield those output numbers at reference volume, then it isn't reference at 0.0 MV
That's not entirely correct depending on your perspective and measurement method. The signal level of REW's test tones are not measured per AES/IEC specs and are 3dB too loud from what you mention (-30dB tone = 75dB from the mains). They should be -33dB and -43dB respectively with the way REW measures them. However, if you want to be really picky, that's not actually correct either. Due to some errors from using non RMS equipment in the past (courtesy of Dolby) being rolled forward a -18dB tone (per AES/IEC measurement method) is expected to read 85dB from the mains, not a -20dB tone.

Additionally, I have found I get different dB readings for the subwoofer measuring with REW when doing an actual sweep at a given dB level vs. using the sub cal signal at the same dB level. There is a several dB discrepancy (the sweep is ~2.5-3.0dB louder than the sub cal) and I'm not sure what is responsible for that. I originally postulated that it was caused by the crest factor of the signal and possible clipping, but subsequent testing showed that wasn't the cause. I'm ultimately not sure which measurement is correct. I suspect it's the sweep, but I can't prove that.
Stereodude is online now  
post #12753 of 12760 Old Today, 05:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Liked: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluer101 View Post
I have my 1 140mm fan in the center right between where you have them. That's right between both sides of the heat sinks. Mine runs all the time when the receiver is on. It make the surface of the receiver at 100 degrees or lower even when watching power hungry movies.
That big ol fan probably does well, pulling heat off both heat sinks at the same time.

Panasonic VT50 / Sony S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF-7II and RC-64II
Dual Rythmik FV15HP's
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12754 of 12760 Old Today, 05:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Liked: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
That's not entirely correct depending on your perspective and measurement method. The signal level of REW's test tones are not measured per AES/IEC specs and are 3dB too loud from what you mention (-30dB tone = 75dB from the mains). They should be -33dB and -43dB respectively with the way REW measures them. However, if you want to be really picky, that's not actually correct either. Due to some errors from using non RMS equipment in the past (courtesy of Dolby) being rolled forward a -18dB tone (per AES/IEC measurement method) is expected to read 85dB from the mains, not a -20dB tone.

Additionally, I have found I get different dB readings for the subwoofer measuring with REW when doing an actual sweep at a given dB level vs. using the sub cal signal at the same dB level. There is a several dB discrepancy (the sweep is ~2.5-3.0dB louder than the sub cal) and I'm not sure what is responsible for that. I originally postulated that it was caused by the crest factor of the signal and possible clipping, but subsequent testing showed that wasn't the cause. I'm ultimately not sure which measurement is correct. I suspect it's the sweep, but I can't prove that.

I understand REW has some differences, but I chose not to get into that because it can confuse people not as in tune and take away from the main point. Which is, if you have a good test blu-ray and reliable mic or meter, check behind XT32 because it isn't perfect . I always do my level checking with the SPL meter and what i find there translates into my sweeps on REW.

For $130 you can get a verified SPL meter and S&M gen 2 blu-ray. For some though, I can see where that is an unnecessary cost but I suffer from AV OCD at times.

Panasonic VT50 / Sony S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF-7II and RC-64II
Dual Rythmik FV15HP's
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12755 of 12760 Old Today, 08:35 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 12,231
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1951 Post(s)
Liked: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
For $130 you can get a verified SPL meter and S&M gen 2 blu-ray. For some though, I can see where that is an unnecessary cost but I suffer from AV OCD at times.
But how do you know the S&M gen 2 Blu-Ray has the right signal levels? This Meyer Sound tech Report (PDF) doesn't paint a pretty picture for many calibration tones. Further, your $130 meter is only really only calibrated at 1kHz. The acceptable accuracy envelope for a Type II meter is pretty wide down in the frequency range of subs. A calibrated mic (w/ a sensitivity measurement) should be more accurate since the entire frequency range is "calibrated", not just 1kHz.
Stereodude is online now  
post #12756 of 12760 Old Today, 08:35 AM
Member
 
MarkPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So what's the easiest way to get the IR signal out so I can close my cabinet door? I've tried a repeater I had that worked on my Yamaha but won't work with this.

Would a Harmony remote be the simplest way?
MarkPow is online now  
post #12757 of 12760 Old Today, 09:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 10,513
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3217 Post(s)
Liked: 1767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
But how do you know the S&M gen 2 Blu-Ray has the right signal levels? This Meyer Sound tech Report (PDF) doesn't paint a pretty picture for many calibration tones. Further, your $130 meter is only really only calibrated at 1kHz. The acceptable accuracy envelope for a Type II meter is pretty wide down in the frequency range of subs. A calibrated mic (w/ a sensitivity measurement) should be more accurate since the entire frequency range is "calibrated", not just 1kHz.
You guys are over-thinking this. The S&M disk is one of the more highly-regarded test disks in the industry. And a CSL-calibrated SPL is going to be pretty accurate. Setting speaker output levels doesn't need to have the accuracy of open-heart surgery. If you set the level correctly at the MLP, the level is going to vary several dB across various spots in the listening room anyway, so I just don't understand the obsession with absolute accuracy.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #12758 of 12760 Old Today, 10:15 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 12,231
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1951 Post(s)
Liked: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You guys are over-thinking this. The S&M disk is one of the more highly-regarded test disks in the industry. And a CSL-calibrated SPL is going to be pretty accurate. Setting speaker output levels doesn't need to have the accuracy of open-heart surgery. If you set the level correctly at the MLP, the level is going to vary several dB across various spots in the listening room anyway, so I just don't understand the obsession with absolute accuracy.
The same argument can be made against EQ'ing your sub...

If you EQ the sub at the MLP, the response is going to vary several dB across various spots in the listening room anyway, so I just don't understand the obsession with EQ'ing your sub.

In my opinion it matters because Audyssey DEQ changes its compensations based on how far from 0dB / "Reference" you are. As such, it stands to reason you should endeavor to set it as correctly as possible. If someone ends up setting their speakers to 78dB where they should be 75, and someone else ends up at 72dB instead of 75dB. The former might listen to a movie at -18dB and the latter at -12dB, Even though the master volume settings and calibration errors end up cancelling out, the DEQ adjustments won't be the same.

Further, the apparent differences in the SPL readings of subs from REW when using the SPL meter function & sub cal tone vs. sweeps at the same -dB level adds another layer of uncertainty and could lead to the subwoofer being too quiet or too loud relative to all the other speakers. I've started a thread about it at HTS and hopefully can get to the bottom of that one.
Stereodude is online now  
post #12759 of 12760 Old Today, 10:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Liked: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You guys are over-thinking this. The S&M disk is one of the more highly-regarded test disks in the industry. And a CSL-calibrated SPL is going to be pretty accurate. Setting speaker output levels doesn't need to have the accuracy of open-heart surgery. If you set the level correctly at the MLP, the level is going to vary several dB across various spots in the listening room anyway, so I just don't understand the obsession with absolute accuracy.
That is my opinion Jerry.

What I learned when I got into REW was, you give a result with an SPL meter people say "those arent accurate use the umik 1". When you get the same results with a umik 1 people find issues with it. I have set my XT32 mic in such a way where the resulting sweeps look GREAT, but it sounds like crap. In other words, those sweeps can mean very little. Everyone loves to doubt the SPL meter and assume the CHEAP mic in the box does a better job, I just dont get it. If the Umik 1 and CM140 agree with each other, I am going with those numbers every time.

Anyways, after checking levels with the CM140, and then running a sweep (75db target), I find the subs are around +10db over the other speakers where they should be. I do not see the point to obsessing more than this. You can always spend more for more accuracy, but why?

As far as the spears and munsil 30dbfs and 40dbfs tones go, I spoke with them directly. The reason these tones did not make the first disc was to ensure accuracy. They worked directly with THX to get them correct and that comes from Stacey Spears mouth. He also made note he knew of more than one disc out there with issues.

One thing I learned from using REW is you can go overboard with overthinking it, just like with video cal. I used to own my own meters and you can obsess over miniscule things. You'd get great results with a $1000 meter and folks would make note that meter is only accurate to X, and the $5k meter would do better. If one is that obsessed, just hire a pro to come in and cal your system and save yourself the grief.

For me now, I run audyssey, fix my crossovers, level check with the CM140 and go about life. Things sound good. if you second guess too much, you will spend more time tweaking that listening. Realize the steps we take are WAY above the normal owner.

Panasonic VT50 / Sony S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF-7II and RC-64II
Dual Rythmik FV15HP's

Last edited by gadgtfreek; Today at 10:49 AM.
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12760 of 12760 Unread Today, 11:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
laserjock II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 912
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 275 Post(s)
Liked: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
That is my opinion Jerry.

What I learned when I got into REW was, you give a result with an SPL meter people say "those arent accurate use the umik 1". When you get the same results with a umik 1 people find issues with it. I have set my XT32 mic in such a way where the resulting sweeps look GREAT, but it sounds like crap. In other words, those sweeps can mean very little. Everyone loves to doubt the SPL meter and assume the CHEAP mic in the box does a better job, I just dont get it. If the Umik 1 and CM140 agree with each other, I am going with those numbers every time.

Anyways, after checking levels with the CM140, and then running a sweep (75db target), I find the subs are around +10db over the other speakers where they should be. I do not see the point to obsessing more than this. You can always spend more for more accuracy, but why?

As far as the spears and munsil 30dbfs and 40dbfs tones go, I spoke with them directly. The reason these tones did not make the first disc was to ensure accuracy. They worked directly with THX to get them correct and that comes from Stacey Spears mouth. He also made note he knew of more than one disc out there with issues.

One thing I learned from using REW is you can go overboard with overthinking it, just like with video cal. I used to own my own meters and you can obsess over miniscule things. You'd get great results with a $1000 meter and folks would make note that meter is only accurate to X, and the $5k meter would do better. If one is that obsessed, just hire a pro to come in and cal your system and save yourself the grief.

For me now, I run audyssey, fix my crossovers, level check with the CM140 and go about life. Things sound good. if you second guess too much, you will spend more time tweaking that listening. Realize the steps we take are WAY above the normal owner.
I agree, enjoy the listening experience.
laserjock II is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver
Gear in this thread - 4520ci by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off