The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 430 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 09-21-2015, 05:18 AM
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I cant stand Dyn Eq either. Boom boom boom boom boom...
Man, I could not live WITHOUT DynEq at anything other than non reference levels. The surround field is so much more immersive and yes, the bass more pronounced..

For those looking for a smart switch here is my deal of the week:
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Old 09-21-2015, 09:07 AM
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It seems every high end AVR these days have issues that are above normal. At least going by the number of reviews out there. Anything more than a 10% 1/2 start rating generally give ME a pause. What are your thoughts on that?

My 4520Ci was repaired recently under warranty. They said loose connection but I somehow feel something is still not 100% but it seems to be working OK for now.

I understand that some of the highly satisfied customer do not bother to review and a majority of those who have issues DO review the unit but it does seem that the quality of the components in these high end units is going down every day. Also for those who buy them as they come out it is a significant investment.

Thankfully I am not one of them because I have learnt to be patient and be OK with a little older technology in exchange for a much cheaper price. It is easier to swallow at 899 than 1999 ;-) ;-).

I was also reading some reviews about the Marantz 7008 and it has its share of unhappy customers so what is one to do - TSK TSK..... Hobbies!!! Heck of a Price for it though because Marantz is supposed to be their premium division compared to Denon.
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Old 09-21-2015, 09:38 AM
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Hey Guys, my 4520 has quit producing audio to zone 2 after working for more than a 1-1/2 years. Any suggestions of items to check before taking before taking it in for repairs.

Thanks
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Old 09-21-2015, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RobLee View Post
The link is to post 12808 in this (4520) thread. It works for me... sorry if I'm not proficient with thread tools. Anyway, I have a XPA-2 for the mains and XPA-5 the center, surrounds and wides. I do know a guy who powers his A9's with twin XPA-2's configured as two 600wpc monoblock amps. And as I mentioned earlier, my subs are nothing special, as I primarily depend on the A7/A9 woofers for all but subsonics.... anyway, off topic for this thread, so we should probably end it here.
RobLee, I've been reading your recent post concerning additional amps as you touched on something I'm dealing with right now and wonder if you can provide some input. I just setup my home theater system with the 4520 and a Emotiva XPA -2. I Have SVS Ultra Tower package and SVS Ultra SB13. I thought by adding this extra power (300WPC) the volume control on the denon would be more sensitive. I have to put the volume on 70 (on the 0-90 scale) to get to a decent sounding level. is this typical or am I doing something wrong.

Thanks,

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Old 09-21-2015, 11:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by khope View Post
RobLee, I've been reading your recent post concerning additional amps as you touched on something I'm dealing with right now and wonder if you can provide some input. I just setup my home theater system with the 4520 and a Emotiva XPA -2. I Have SVS Ultra Tower package and SVS Ultra SB13. I thought by adding this extra power (300WPC) the volume control on the denon would be more sensitive. I have to put the volume on 70 (on the 0-90 scale) to get to a decent sounding level. is this typical or am I doing something wrong.

Thanks,

Khope
Using an external amp on a calibrated volume scale (assuming you calibrated with Audyssey) won't change what the dB reading is for a given loudness. The volume scale choices are either -79.5 to 18 dB or from 0 to 98 dB. If you're running 70 that's roughly -10 from reference level and is considered fairly loud.
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Old 09-21-2015, 04:30 PM
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I'm not sure there is actually any problem here. Admittedly I've never used the 0-90 option... I've always used the "db down" setting. But I do know that there are some sources for which I have to turn the volume "way up"... in my case, up to -10db (i.e., closest to the 0db "maximum"). Your setting of 70 out of 90 probably isn't tremendously high.

In closing I should point out that having twice the power doesn't mean it will be twice as loud. Having a larger amp just means that the reserve power is available when the speakers demand it.

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Old 09-21-2015, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RobLee View Post
I'm not sure there is actually any problem here. Admittedly I've never used the 0-90 option... I've always used the "db down" setting. But I do know that there are some sources for which I have to turn the volume "way up"... in my case, up to -10db (i.e., closest to the 0db "maximum"). Your setting of 70 out of 90 probably isn't tremendously high.

In closing I should point out that having twice the power doesn't mean it will be twice as loud. Having a larger amp just means that the reserve power is available when the speakers demand it.
IIRC, the human ear can perceive a change of about 3 db. In order for something to sound twice as loud takes around 10 db... so if you have a 100W amplifier you need to bump up to 1,000W to sound twice as loud. If I'm wrong put it up to an old guys failing memory or initial misconception There is a reason that an analog volume control, which I believe was linear at first, was changed to logarithmic in nature... Moderate volume levels probably take a watt or two to produce them if one's speaker efficiency is not too bad.
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Old 09-21-2015, 04:56 PM
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Thanks for the info. Makes sense. Overall I'm very pleased with the quality of the sound- very clean, smooth and pure. Gotta love Emotiva for their quality products.
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:58 PM
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If you are playing at 70 do the speakers even need the extra power. I believe this issue of headroom was created by the AMP Sellers. Don't your speakers have to be really inefficient to need that much power? I believe any speaker that is 85Db and above should have no issues getting their full potential using a nice AVR like the 4520. THOUGHTS???

I believe the Source really dictates at what volume you need to play for it to sound reasonable to you. I know this having Dish network which is tolerable at best and I have to turn the dial from say -25DB to -15DB and even then I do not hear it as loud as the previous channel. As a matter of fact it can even differ based on the show you are watching. My experience is that the reality shows have really bad sound and acoustics.

Having first hand experience from someone who has used an XPA-3 with very efficient speakers you cannot tell the difference between with or without AMP.

I recall years ago Harmon Kardon used to demonstrate how their AVRs could produce sound from speakers at 1 to 2 Watts of power. They used to display them at the Circuit City stores. Called them High Current but low Power.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
If you are playing at 70 do the speakers even need the extra power. I believe this issue of headroom was created by the AMP Sellers. Don't your speakers have to be really inefficient to need that much power? I believe any speaker that is 85Db and above should have no issues getting their full potential using a nice AVR like the 4520. THOUGHTS???
You're basically 100% right. Now, there are other variables to consider -- some people legitimately need extra power based on desired volume levels, room size / speaker distance, speaker efficiency or impedance, etc. But those are extreme cases, what you say is true for the vast majority of end users.

The "more power!!" urge is the same reason people buy cameras with more megapixels, cars with more horsepower..... big numbers make men happy. Something about the Y chromosome.
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Old 09-25-2015, 02:01 AM
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Is there any way to get the 4520 to output in 1080 always?

I tried playing around with the IP Scaler settings but it didn't make a difference.

When am playing a Blu-ray my projector (JVC RS46) will blank out for a few seconds when switching between the HD menu screen and SD special features and it's fairly annoying, especially on the discs that have tons of short clips. Thoughts?
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:41 AM
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Is there any way to get the 4520 to output in 1080 always?

I tried playing around with the IP Scaler settings but it didn't make a difference.

When am playing a Blu-ray my projector (JVC RS46) will blank out for a few seconds when switching between the HD menu screen and SD special features and it's fairly annoying, especially on the discs that have tons of short clips. Thoughts?
Depending on what your Bluray player is, you might be able to set it to always output 1080P.

If you want to accomplish this on the 4520, bring up the setup menu and under Video -> Output Settings -> i/p Scaller:

Set it to Analog and HDMI

Then under "Resolution (HDMI)", set it to 1080p.

Keep in mind that the video processor in the 4520 may not be as good as the video processing in your projector or Bluray player. For example, if your Bluray player is an Oppo, I would definitely have it handle this processing rather than let the 4520 do it.
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Old 09-25-2015, 06:28 AM
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Is there any way to get the 4520 to output in 1080 always?

I tried playing around with the IP Scaler settings but it didn't make a difference.
GSR gave the proper directions. When you say it doesn't make a difference, on what are you basing this? In my experience, observing the input resolution displayed by my TV, when the 4520 is set to output 1080p, it always outputs 1080p.
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:37 PM
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Hello All.. hoping someone can educate me on the 2 subwoofer out ports.

I am about to finish building my 2, DIY subs. I plan to use an iNuke 6000 DSP external amplifier to power the two sub-woofers.

My question is, should I use both Subwoofer Outputs from my Denon, or just use one, and let the iNuke 6000 dsp split into two outputs?

I haven't even gotten around to using Audyssey yet, but wondered if I used both outputs, if maybe then Audyssey could better manage - or, since I am using an external amplifier, if all the adjustments would need to be done on it anyway.

Thanks,

Kevin
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:48 PM
 
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Hello All.. hoping someone can educate me on the 2 subwoofer out ports.

I am about to finish building my 2, DIY subs. I plan to use an iNuke 6000 DSP external amplifier to power the two sub-woofers.

My question is, should I use both Subwoofer Outputs from my Denon, or just use one, and let the iNuke 6000 dsp split into two outputs?

I haven't even gotten around to using Audyssey yet, but wondered if I used both outputs, if maybe then Audyssey could better manage - or, since I am using an external amplifier, if all the adjustments would need to be done on it anyway.

Thanks,

Kevin
The two sub pre-outs are independent for level and delay (distance), then Audyssey will eq them together if you use each of the two separate sub outputs. If your subs are equidistant from your listening position then mono should be fine.
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post
Hello All.. hoping someone can educate me on the 2 subwoofer out ports.

I am about to finish building my 2, DIY subs. I plan to use an iNuke 6000 DSP external amplifier to power the two sub-woofers.

My question is, should I use both Subwoofer Outputs from my Denon, or just use one, and let the iNuke 6000 dsp split into two outputs?

I haven't even gotten around to using Audyssey yet, but wondered if I used both outputs, if maybe then Audyssey could better manage - or, since I am using an external amplifier, if all the adjustments would need to be done on it anyway.

Thanks,

Kevin
In my experience, you HAVE to use both sub outs for the 4520 to proceed w/ Audyssey calibration. Also once all connected up, Audyssey will check the sub levels and advise if you need to adjust the gain on your outboard amp to hit approx 75 db.

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Old 09-28-2015, 01:56 PM
 
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In my experience, you HAVE to use both sub outs for the 4520 to proceed w/ Audyssey calibration. Also once all connected up, Audyssey will check the sub levels and advise if you need to adjust the gain on your outboard amp to hit approx 75 db.
It prevented you from running Audyssey when you tried with just one sub? I haven't tried setting up my 4520 with only one sub yet but it should permit it....
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Old 09-28-2015, 02:03 PM
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It prevented you from running Audyssey when you tried with just one sub? I haven't tried setting up my 4520 with only one sub yet but it should permit it....
I have 2 subs, one died, so I pulled one out & then did a re-calibration using just the one, but Audyssey kept asking to connect a 2nd sub before going on. Ended up connecting the 2 sub cables I had to the R&L inputs on the one sub, then it proceeded to run the setup.

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Old 09-28-2015, 02:13 PM
 
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I have 2 subs, one died, so I pulled one out & then did a re-calibration using just the one, but Audyssey kept asking to connect a 2nd sub before going on. Ended up connecting the 2 sub cables I had to the R&L inputs on the one sub, then it proceeded to run the setup.
Did you try the manual setting in speakers/speakers config to set the subwoofer to 1?
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Old 09-28-2015, 02:20 PM
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Did you try the manual setting in speakers/speakers config to set the subwoofer to 1?
hah! well crap, did not even think of that.
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Old 09-28-2015, 02:21 PM
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Sounds like you need to set to 1 sub instead of two. When you first start Audyssey you can adjust what speakers it tests for.
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Old 09-28-2015, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post
Hello All.. hoping someone can educate me on the 2 subwoofer out ports.

I am about to finish building my 2, DIY subs. I plan to use an iNuke 6000 DSP external amplifier to power the two sub-woofers.

My question is, should I use both Subwoofer Outputs from my Denon, or just use one, and let the iNuke 6000 dsp split into two outputs?

I haven't even gotten around to using Audyssey yet, but wondered if I used both outputs, if maybe then Audyssey could better manage - or, since I am using an external amplifier, if all the adjustments would need to be done on it anyway.

Thanks,

Kevin
I'd say as long as you're not running it bridged then you can use one channel for each sub and run them separately.
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:31 PM
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I spoke with ABT's Service Supervisor today, my 4520 is not repairable. The part they need, not the HDMI board, but some other digital board is no longer available. This means j will be getting a replacement from Denon. I told the young lady, I REFUSE to accept a refurb, they are more prone to breakdown than the new units". She said that she needs to talk to Denon to make sure I don't get a refurb sent. The current models equivalent are the AVR-X7200wa or the AVR-X6200w. The 6200 is actually a step down in power 150-140 and it does not have multi-channel inputs. The 7200 is a truer equivalent as far as power and inputs.

So, we'll see how this goes.
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Old 09-30-2015, 04:16 PM
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I spoke with ABT's Service Supervisor today, my 4520 is not repairable. The part they need, not the HDMI board, but some other digital board is no longer available. This means j will be getting a replacement from Denon. I told the young lady, I REFUSE to accept a refurb, they are more prone to breakdown than the new units". She said that she needs to talk to Denon to make sure I don't get a refurb sent. The current models equivalent are the AVR-X7200wa or the AVR-X6200w. The 6200 is actually a step down in power 150-140 and it does not have multi-channel inputs. The 7200 is a truer equivalent as far as power and inputs.

So, we'll see how this goes.

Either one of those would be a good receiver IMO. Let us know what happens.

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Old 10-02-2015, 01:54 PM
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ABT has heard from Denon. Denon will be shipping me an x4200w. 125 watts vs 150 watts will take getting used to. But the 4200 will be brand new and have a full 3 year warranty. So, I suppose it will be time to join that owners thread.

Question, will my remote for the 4520 work for the X 4200? I'm assuming the 4520 remote will have more functionality. I definitely like the movement activates backlight.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm, while it's nice that they are taking care of you the 4200 is a bit of a step down with only 7 amps and 9 ch capability. The 4520 had 9 amps and could do 11 channels so I'd really push for a 5200/6200.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:23 PM
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^ Agreed. You're also going from a $2499 MSRP AVR to a $1500 MSRP AVR. That doesn't seem right to me. I doubt one would notice the difference in wattage unless using speakers that present a difficult load, but other differences, such as those that batpig mentioned, will definitely be noticed.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:49 PM
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I just called Denon to plead my case requesting a 6200 due to the drop from 9 to 7 and the power drop. It may be difficult though, Denon doesn't even have the x6200 on their site. I've seen it on Amazon and Best Buy, ABT doesn't even have it listed yet. Yes, there most certainly are upside benefits to the x4200, but I don't have a 4K display to take full advantage of that. I have no intention of adding on s slew of speakers for Atmos or DTS:X any time soon. The 4200 can be upgraded to 13.2 with external amps, the 4520 can only go to 11. Losing multichannel audio in on the 4200 or 6200 puts a halt to my plans of getting an Oppo and running multichannel from it to the AVR.

And the CSR at Denon said that the 4520 remote won't fully function with the 4200.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:55 PM
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Push for the 7200
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Old 10-02-2015, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
^ Agreed. You're also going from a $2499 MSRP AVR to a $1500 MSRP AVR. That doesn't seem right to me. I doubt one would notice the difference in wattage unless using speakers that present a difficult load, but other differences, such as those that batpig mentioned, will definitely be noticed.
I have a set of Paradigm Monitor P90 v1, my Yamaha RXA710 (90 wpc) struggles, volume knob needs to go up about 10-15 -db to get the same level as the 4520. Dropping from 9.2 to 7.2 is a pretty big deal. I know the x7200wa is a direct comparison as far as power and inputs & outputs, I can't see @Denon sending a $3000 AVR to replace a $2500 model. It would be outstanding if they did! But, I'm not expecting that to happen. The $2200 x6200 has what I'm used to and what's missing, I can deal with it. Not having USB on the back is gonna suck. Not having multichannel audio inputs also changes my plans, my future Oppo will have to be connected via HDMI.

For what it's worth, with my extreme satisfaction of the 4520, I sold 2 AVRs for Denon. One was an Onkyo convert and the other is my cousin in France who waited almost a month for his Denon to arrive.

Samsung 65ks8500
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon w/Acryl-It platter, Phono Box S
DENON AVR-X7200wa, Paradigm Monitor 90p v1
Def Tech system: CLR2300 SM450 surrounds, BP1.2x rear surrounds, Polk PSW-505
Previous AVRs: AVR-4520ci, RX-A710, RXV-2200
Instagram: DaveTheStalker, PSN ID: DaveTheStalker GT fan since day 1.
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