The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 436 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 11-13-2015, 11:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rosh View Post
Thanks for the response. Found the cause of the problem.
Looks like the sound wasnt coming from the sub due to following reason: the speakers were set to large and the bass mode was set to LFE.
Glad you found the problem. I prefer my bass mode as LFE myself.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosh View Post
Thanks for the response. Found the cause of the problem.
Looks like the sound wasnt coming from the sub due to following reason: the speakers were set to large and the bass mode was set to LFE.
Glad you found the problem. I prefer my bass mode as LFE myself.
But to be clear (for the OP) this would require speakers to be set to small for the sub to work in stereo mode.

Large w LFE+MAIN = double bass
Small w LFE = bass managed
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Old 11-20-2015, 02:43 PM
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Easy A/B between Denon's internal amp and external amp

Looking to compare an external stereo amplifier (which i am evaluating) against the Denon 4520's internal amps. Needed review of my plan.

My thought is to wire it up as follows:

Code:
Denon PreAmp --> external amp ---->| 
                                   |==> selector  switch -> speakers
Denon L/R amp outputs ------------>|
The denon should put out signal on both the L/R amp outputs as well as preamp outs simultaneously (i think it possible but not sure), so that i can easily flip back and forth between the amps using the selector connected to the speaker.

Also any suggestions on switch simple speaker input selectors ? Preferably a simple switch that does not introduce its own fancy electronics for impedance matching etc.

Last edited by rosh; 11-20-2015 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 11-20-2015, 06:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosh View Post
Looking to compare an external stereo amplifier (which i am evaluating) against the Denon 4520's internal amps. Needed review of my plan.

My thought is to wire it up as follows:

Code:
Denon PreAmp --> external amp ---->| 
                                   |==> selector  switch -> speakers
Denon L/R amp outputs ------------>|
The denon should put out signal on both the L/R amp outputs as well as preamp outs simultaneously (i think it possible but not sure), so that i can easily flip back and forth between the amps using the selector connected to the speaker.

Also any suggestions on switch simple speaker input selectors ? Preferably a simple switch that does not introduce its own fancy electronics for impedance matching etc.
How would you level match them?
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Old 11-20-2015, 09:32 PM
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The denon has a mode where it can drive two pairs of front speakers simultaneously. my plan is it use premamp out of one pair of terminals to the external amp and the the amp out from the other pair to the speaker selector.

Consequently I should be able to do level matching by setting the levels on the two separate front pairs... i think.
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Old 11-20-2015, 11:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rosh View Post
The denon has a mode where it can drive two pairs of front speakers simultaneously. my plan is it use premamp out of one pair of terminals to the external amp and the the amp out from the other pair to the speaker selector.

Consequently I should be able to do level matching by setting the levels on the two separate front pairs... i think.
I still don't see where you are level matching (i.e. level matching the output of the external amp to the Denon's amp for equal output to the speaker).
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Old 11-21-2015, 07:21 AM
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I have been a proud owner of a avr-4806 for many years still running like a champ, however I never upgraded it to pass 1080p which i am now finding disappointing, using a splitter around the amp to get 1080p, so I purchased a avr-4520ci at a great price. After looking into specs on the two deeper I am thinking I made a mistake and the amp section of this unit is not really a match for the avr-4806 amp section. I realize the preamp is much better but the unit weight and depth is much different when comparing.

I currently have an array of def tech speakers their top end stuff in 7.1 don't really plan to upgrade to 9.2 or anything. Should I keep the avr-4806 and use it as a pass thru power amp from the avr-4520ci or will I be happy with the amp section in my avr4520ci?

I never run my system over +7 on my avr-4806 and really only when we have guests over to show off, other then that it is used a few times a month tops.

Any answers to these questions would be great been out of the av game for a while as my business is taking all my time.

Thanks
Ian
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ianandamy View Post
I have been a proud owner of a avr-4806 for many years still running like a champ, however I never upgraded it to pass 1080p which i am now finding disappointing, using a splitter around the amp to get 1080p, so I purchased a avr-4520ci at a great price. After looking into specs on the two deeper I am thinking I made a mistake and the amp section of this unit is not really a match for the avr-4806 amp section. I realize the preamp is much better but the unit weight and depth is much different when comparing.

I currently have an array of def tech speakers their top end stuff in 7.1 don't really plan to upgrade to 9.2 or anything. Should I keep the avr-4806 and use it as a pass thru power amp from the avr-4520ci or will I be happy with the amp section in my avr4520ci?

I never run my system over +7 on my avr-4806 and really only when we have guests over to show off, other then that it is used a few times a month tops.

Any answers to these questions would be great been out of the av game for a while as my business is taking all my time.

Thanks
Ian
You play music or movies at +7? The avr is calibrated for 83/85dB average level, 103/105 dB peaks? Not familiar with the amp section in your avr...what is the difference you're concerned about? Can't imagine its much different....maybe a bit more than 1dB at most?
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianandamy View Post
I have been a proud owner of a avr-4806 for many years still running like a champ, however I never upgraded it to pass 1080p which i am now finding disappointing, using a splitter around the amp to get 1080p, so I purchased a avr-4520ci at a great price. After looking into specs on the two deeper I am thinking I made a mistake and the amp section of this unit is not really a match for the avr-4806 amp section. I realize the preamp is much better but the unit weight and depth is much different when comparing.

I currently have an array of def tech speakers their top end stuff in 7.1 don't really plan to upgrade to 9.2 or anything. Should I keep the avr-4806 and use it as a pass thru power amp from the avr-4520ci or will I be happy with the amp section in my avr4520ci?

I never run my system over +7 on my avr-4806 and really only when we have guests over to show off, other then that it is used a few times a month tops.

Any answers to these questions would be great been out of the av game for a while as my business is taking all my time.

Thanks
Ian
What amp specs are the two?
I know the real world power of the 4520 is 121.8W into 8ohms with 5 channels driven at 0.1% distortion.
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianandamy View Post
I have been a proud owner of a avr-4806 for many years still running like a champ, however I never upgraded it to pass 1080p which i am now finding disappointing, using a splitter around the amp to get 1080p, so I purchased a avr-4520ci at a great price. After looking into specs on the two deeper I am thinking I made a mistake and the amp section of this unit is not really a match for the avr-4806 amp section. I realize the preamp is much better but the unit weight and depth is much different when comparing.

I currently have an array of def tech speakers their top end stuff in 7.1 don't really plan to upgrade to 9.2 or anything. Should I keep the avr-4806 and use it as a pass thru power amp from the avr-4520ci or will I be happy with the amp section in my avr4520ci?

I never run my system over +7 on my avr-4806 and really only when we have guests over to show off, other then that it is used a few times a month tops.

Any answers to these questions would be great been out of the av game for a while as my business is taking all my time.

Thanks
Ian
I had 9 channels running off my 4520 and found it had no problem - Martin Logan Motion Series speakers ( two 40's, four FX's, one 8 and two LX15's ), most of which are 4 ohm. With powered subwoofers, the 4520 could play clean and plenty loud. Of course I now am running 11 channels with an Emotiva XPA 200 running my main L / R Motion 40's. And it still plays loud and clean ! I don't think you will have a problem.

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Old 11-21-2015, 10:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ianandamy View Post
I have been a proud owner of a avr-4806 for many years still running like a champ, however I never upgraded it to pass 1080p which i am now finding disappointing, using a splitter around the amp to get 1080p, so I purchased a avr-4520ci at a great price. After looking into specs on the two deeper I am thinking I made a mistake and the amp section of this unit is not really a match for the avr-4806 amp section. I realize the preamp is much better but the unit weight and depth is much different when comparing.

I currently have an array of def tech speakers their top end stuff in 7.1 don't really plan to upgrade to 9.2 or anything. Should I keep the avr-4806 and use it as a pass thru power amp from the avr-4520ci or will I be happy with the amp section in my avr4520ci?

I never run my system over +7 on my avr-4806 and really only when we have guests over to show off, other then that it is used a few times a month tops.

Any answers to these questions would be great been out of the av game for a while as my business is taking all my time.

Thanks
Ian
In comparing the two Denons, the 4806 is about 52 lbs, and the 4520 is 36. When I bought the 4520 that spec stood out for me as the Onkyo it replaced was 51 lbs, and in my book at the time, there is no substitute for pounds. But the 4520 bested the Onkyo TX SR876 in sound quality and was it's equal in power(to my surprise). The Onkyo, for all it's weight, could bench test 144 watts per channel with 5 channels driven. The 4520, as mentioned above, can do 121 watts. I can't find a bench test of the 4806, but even if it does it's rated power with 5 channels driven, the difference in performance will not be noticeable being less than 1 decibel of volume. But if you set up the newer Audyssey room correction, it will knock your socks off, it sure did mine!

You haven't mentioned what model of Def Techs you have, but in looking at models from the mid 2000's, they seem to be 8 ohm speakers, which is an easy load. If they were 6 or 4 ohms, it would be another story. What surprised me is your top volume setting of +7, even if to demo to friends. That's getting close to full volume. I'm wondering what setting you watch movies at, and how hot your 4608 would get. I'm asking because for those who have had warranty issues with the 4520, heat can be a concern. I hope it's not stuffed into a tight shelf with no active fans moving air.

But with that kind of volume, I'm wondering if you'd be happier by adding an external amp. Getting a 7 channel amp from Outlaw Audio or Emotiva would actually give you much more power with their 200 watt models, and at least they could handle the higher volumes better than any AVR. Just a thought.
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Old 11-21-2015, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
What amp specs are the two?
I know the real world power of the 4520 is 121.8W into 8ohms with 5 channels driven at 0.1% distortion.
According to what I can find on my avr-4806 it is - 114 watts x 7; 0.06% THD; 2.44 volts RMS input and is a class D amp. The avr4520ci appears to not be a class D rated amp.
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Old 11-21-2015, 11:33 AM
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In comparing the two Denons, the 4806 is about 52 lbs, and the 4520 is 36. When I bought the 4520 that spec stood out for me as the Onkyo it replaced was 51 lbs, and in my book at the time, there is no substitute for pounds. But the 4520 bested the Onkyo TX SR876 in sound quality and was it's equal in power(to my surprise). The Onkyo, for all it's weight, could bench test 144 watts per channel with 5 channels driven. The 4520, as mentioned above, can do 121 watts. I can't find a bench test of the 4806, but even if it does it's rated power with 5 channels driven, the difference in performance will not be noticeable being less than 1 decibel of volume. But if you set up the newer Audyssey room correction, it will knock your socks off, it sure did mine!

You haven't mentioned what model of Def Techs you have, but in looking at models from the mid 2000's, they seem to be 8 ohm speakers, which is an easy load. If they were 6 or 4 ohms, it would be another story. What surprised me is your top volume setting of +7, even if to demo to friends. That's getting close to full volume. I'm wondering what setting you watch movies at, and how hot your 4608 would get. I'm asking because for those who have had warranty issues with the 4520, heat can be a concern. I hope it's not stuffed into a tight shelf with no active fans moving air.

But with that kind of volume, I'm wondering if you'd be happier by adding an external amp. Getting a 7 channel amp from Outlaw Audio or Emotiva would actually give you much more power with their 200 watt models, and at least they could handle the higher volumes better than any AVR. Just a thought.

We have 4 bpx and powered sub center channel with bipolar 12" internal sub fronts.

At +7 it is very loud but extremely clear, I do not over push things nor let it break up. I am sure the pre amp in this will blow my socks off too. However I am worried the amp section may be less then I am used too. I picked up the avr-4520ci for 610.00 in mint condition and have no interest in 4k really. I was thinking worse case keep the avr-4806 and use it as a power amp for now.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ianandamy View Post
According to what I can find on my avr-4806 it is - 114 watts x 7; 0.06% THD; 2.44 volts RMS input and is a class D amp. The avr4520ci appears to not be a class D rated amp.
I've found interior photos of the 4806(at least I think they are), and it appears to have the toriodal transformer. What has me wondering about this is the very heavy weight of the receiver, a class D would be on the light side. The 4520 though is also class A/B.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:10 PM
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I've found interior photos of the 4806(at least I think they are), and it appears to have the toriodal transformer. What has me wondering about this is the very heavy weight of the receiver, a class D would be on the light side. The 4520 though is also class A/B.
The class thing is something I read I don't know if it is true. Whats significant about this transformer vs the one in the 4520ci?
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Old 11-21-2015, 04:14 PM
 
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The class thing is something I read I don't know if it is true. Whats significant about this transformer vs the one in the 4520ci?
It's not true, Denon hasn't put out a class D avr (Pioneer does and can't think of any other mainstream mfr doing so at this time). A larger power supply can supply the juice the amp needs better when being used towards its upper limits than a smaller power supply can. Some see a toroidal power supply and assume its better, I found this recently http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb071998.htm

The 4520 is a 9-ch amp, the 4806 a 7-ch amp with very similar ratings. I wouldn't worry about the differences in amp sections; plug it in when you get it (new or used for 610?) and find out for yourself. If it shuts down due to your volume level, or creates distortion, think about an external amp as the 4520 is about as powerful a receiver as is out there these days...

Also curious about my previous question about calibration for that +7 level....

Now about 7.1 all DefTec, does that include sub?
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Old 11-21-2015, 04:20 PM
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I used the mic to calibrate it and have the front channels set to full use the pre amp outs to the powered center and tower subs. The the three subs are in the front of the room. And the amp is well vented. Using all biplor def tec speakers. 41 total speakers tweeters subs etc in the mix.
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Old 11-21-2015, 11:13 PM
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lovinthehd,
dont understand what your question is.. the level matching will be done with an SPL and the level settings on the preamp/amp outs
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Old 11-22-2015, 12:46 AM
 
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lovinthehd,
dont understand what your question is.. the level matching will be done with an SPL and the level settings on the preamp/amp outs
I don't see how you would separately adjust the levels between the amp outs and the pre-amp outs.
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Old 11-22-2015, 12:18 PM
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They will not be sharing same channel..so levels can be set independently
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Old 11-22-2015, 01:49 PM
 
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They will not be sharing same channel..so levels can be set independently
Brain fart I think, this is the multi-ch plus 2-ch hookup per page 96 in the manual? Still curious how you plan to level-match or do you even care to match carefully?
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Old 12-06-2015, 08:44 PM
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Anyone know what the update is in the following link? Click link and scroll down to recent updates/upgrades and it shows one for the 4520 as of 10-28-2015. My latest bios is 3525-8853-5475.

http://usa.denon.com/us/downloads/productupdates
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:04 PM
 
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Anyone know what the update is in the following link? Click link and scroll down to recent updates/upgrades and it shows one for the 4520 as of 10-28-2015. My latest bios is 3525-8853-5475.

http://usa.denon.com/us/downloads/productupdates
Post 4 isn't updated yet so wonder myself. I usually have a don't update it unless you need it policy. Wonder if @batpig or @jdsmoothie can fill us in?
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:21 PM
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I recently did a full reset on mine, and I have it working 100% again, when I checked for any FW upgrades, it said it was up to date already. Hope someone can shed some light on this for us.

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Old 12-07-2015, 02:08 AM
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Interesting. I annoy guru at all this stuff. I bought my 4520 2 years ago on sale and it powers my 5.2 system great (bowers and Wilkins 683's with same brand center and surrounds+ 2 svs-1000 subs). Only complaint so far is that from time to time it needs to be unplugged or else my "watch tv" option set up on my harmony controller won't start even though all my settings are correct and the receiver is on and under correct settings. Other times I need to unplug it too because I'm getting a jumpy screen on my tv. Thought it was my tv but once I unplugged the receiver and started it back up the problem was gone. Not sure why these things happen. The jumpy screen thing hasn't happened in about 6 months while the other problem is more of a once every 3-4 week issue. Anyone know why?
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:14 AM
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Glad to hear I'm not the only one seeing these Denon "quirks". when it's working it is amazing. Seems it takes a bit of work keeping it this way....

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Old 12-08-2015, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyalP View Post
Anyone know what the update is in the following link? Click link and scroll down to recent updates/upgrades and it shows one for the 4520 as of 10-28-2015. My latest bios is 3525-8853-5475.

http://usa.denon.com/us/downloads/productupdates
Anybody?

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Old 12-08-2015, 01:53 PM
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Glad to hear I'm not the only one seeing these Denon "quirks". when it's working it is amazing. Seems it takes a bit of work keeping it this way....

The only quirk I've had is trying to use both HDMI outs for two projectors - one a 4K and one a 1080p. Had a few HDMI lockups. A powered Key Digital HDMI splitter solved that.

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Old 12-08-2015, 01:56 PM
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Anybody?

I avoid firmware updates unless I have a problem. Having almost bricked my Sim2 Lumis Host trying to do a firmware update, I have a " if it ain't broke, don't break it " policy.
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I avoid firmware updates unless I have a problem. Having almost bricked my Sim2 Lumis Host trying to do a firmware update, I have a " if it ain't broke, don't break it " policy.
Still, would be nice to have it available & know what it fixed. These AVRs seem to have occasional HDMI issues.
Anyone able to contact Denon regarding why it isn't showing as available to download?

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Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver
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