The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 439 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13141 of 13775 Old 01-07-2016, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by emcdade View Post
My few minor quibbles:

Receiver should default to Dynamic volume off

Dynamic EQ: I get the bass boost but why are you increasing my surround speaker levels so much? The audio needs to be tied to the action on/at the screen! I should never be distracted by surround sound, or feel like I need to focus to hear the sound up front.

My compromise has been running sub 3 db hot and using an RLO of -10. I really wish dynamic EQ left surround levels alone, then it would be fantastic.
The surround boost has long been the most complained about aspect of DEQ. It's really unfortunate that Audyssey coupled it to the loudness comp function without allowing it to be turned off.

My solution is similar to others. I set RLO to -10 to tone down the surround boost and then trim up the subs a bit to bring back the bass. I also tweak my surround levels down slightly to mitigate a bit more.

The key to using DEQ is to dial it in so it sounds balanced at your preferred "movie night" volume level. Then you can raise or lower the volume and it will maintain the tonal balance you have dialed in.

If I had a soundproofed room where I had no concerns about volume and always listened loud, I'd probably turn DEQ off. Unfortunately I have to moderate my volume at night with the wife and kids sleeping so I find it a huge asset.
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post #13142 of 13775 Old 01-07-2016, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The surround boost has long been the most complained about aspect of DEQ. It's really unfortunate that Audyssey coupled it to the loudness comp function without allowing it to be turned off.

My solution is similar to others. I set RLO to -10 to tone down the surround boost and then trim up the subs a bit to bring back the bass. I also tweak my surround levels down slightly to mitigate a bit more.

The key to using DEQ is to dial it in so it sounds balanced at your preferred "movie night" volume level. Then you can raise or lower the volume and it will maintain the tonal balance you have dialed in.

If I had a soundproofed room where I had no concerns about volume and always listened loud, I'd probably turn DEQ off. Unfortunately I have to moderate my volume at night with the wife and kids sleeping so I find it a huge asset.
Thanks for the advice, seems to be the most sensible approach. Do you remember how much you cut the surround trim?
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post #13143 of 13775 Old 01-07-2016, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by emcdade View Post
Thanks for the advice, seems to be the most sensible approach. Do you remember how much you cut the surround trim?
Not batpig, but -4dB for each surround channel seems to work the best for me.
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post #13144 of 13775 Old 01-07-2016, 01:41 PM
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Not batpig, but -4dB for each surround channel seems to work the best for me.
Thanks Alan, is that with RLO -10?
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post #13145 of 13775 Old 01-07-2016, 01:49 PM
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No, my RLO is set to 0.

I'm not sure what you would go with at -10RLO...I guess it depends on what MV you normally listen at.

From my measurements, DynEQ boosts the surrounds about 1dB for every -5MV you are under reference. So, with my -4dB off of the surround trims and 0RLO, they would (in theory) be at the correct level at -20MV. I normally listen to movies at around -15 to -10MV and I've found the -2dB on the surrounds is not enough at that MV level, so I went to -4dB.

I'd say just experiment with it and see what sounds best to you.
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post #13146 of 13775 Old 01-07-2016, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post
Thanks for the advice, seems to be the most sensible approach. Do you remember how much you cut the surround trim?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Not batpig, but -4dB for each surround channel seems to work the best for me.
It's hard to apply a universal rule here because each room and speaker setup is different.

I think I have my side surrounds dialed down about 3dB, and the back surrounds by 1dB. But I have my side surrounds placed nearly directly to the sides (slightly forward of the couch) and not very high (about 1ft above ear level) which makes them extra noticeable on side surround pans. If my surrounds were behind me and/or more elevated I might not need to tweak that much.

What I use to test is the "Amaze" Atmos demo, which has a bird flying 360 degrees around the room at ear level. If I hear the sound appear to jump as it passes through the surrounds I know it's off, so I tweaked until I heard a smooth pan around the room.
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post #13147 of 13775 Old 01-08-2016, 05:53 AM
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post #13148 of 13775 Old 01-08-2016, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
Can someone explain "RLO" to me?
From the Audyssey FAQ (linked in my sig):


What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?
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post #13149 of 13775 Old 01-08-2016, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
From the Audyssey FAQ (linked in my sig):


What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?
Thanks, after reading through it appears that RLO=0 is appropriate for me because it is 98% movies and (maybe) 2% music
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post #13150 of 13775 Old 01-08-2016, 12:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
Thanks, after reading through it appears that RLO=0 is appropriate for me because it is 98% movies and (maybe) 2% music
It can be set by input, too so if you have different sources for movies vs music....
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post #13151 of 13775 Old 01-08-2016, 12:20 PM
 
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This is a question for for anyone who's a former Onkyo AVR owner that switched to Denon. I had the 876 for several years, and acquired the 906 and experimented with it for several months. Both when the Audyssey applied, would set the center channel quite low, -6db, while the fronts were plus 1 or so. To get the dialogue to a reasonable volume, any ensuing actions scenes would blast way over the top. I'm a veteran of movie theaters, and they are not supposed to overpower the room like that.

Anyway, I'd have to manually bring the center way up to compensate on both Onkyos. Also, they did a weak job setting the sub, which typically would also be way loud. When I got the 4520, I was shocked how much better the center, sub and surrounds were all set. I've never had to adjust anything, and the action scenes are properly balanced.

What I'm wondering is, is this me or has anyone else experienced this with Onkyo. I'm wondering if Onkyo took a different approach to Audyssey or something.
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post #13152 of 13775 Old 01-08-2016, 01:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
This is a question for for anyone who's a former Onkyo AVR owner that switched to Denon. I had the 876 for several years, and acquired the 906 and experimented with it for several months. Both when the Audyssey applied, would set the center channel quite low, -6db, while the fronts were plus 1 or so. To get the dialogue to a reasonable volume, any ensuing actions scenes would blast way over the top. I'm a veteran of movie theaters, and they are not supposed to overpower the room like that.

Anyway, I'd have to manually bring the center way up to compensate on both Onkyos. Also, they did a weak job setting the sub, which typically would also be way loud. When I got the 4520, I was shocked how much better the center, sub and surrounds were all set. I've never had to adjust anything, and the action scenes are properly balanced.

What I'm wondering is, is this me or has anyone else experienced this with Onkyo. I'm wondering if Onkyo took a different approach to Audyssey or something.
My Onkyo HT-RC370 (similar to the 709) moved to the bedroom when I got the 4520. It has Audyssey XT but no big differences with center or sub levels like you mention.
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post #13153 of 13775 Old 01-09-2016, 07:32 PM
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I feel like I'm going crazy, I can't for the life of me find where I can raise the trim levels for the rear speakers after running Audyssey.
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post #13154 of 13775 Old 01-09-2016, 07:55 PM
 
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I feel like I'm going crazy, I can't for the life of me find where I can raise the trim levels for the rear speakers after running Audyssey.
Setup menu - speakers - manual setup - levels - test tone start - you're there. (tones are annoying, but.....)
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post #13155 of 13775 Old 01-10-2016, 02:17 PM
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Just been noticing an issue where my receiver is not 'processing' or 'showing' the right audio signal. This started happening say since yesterday.
Example: Playing a bluray from the Oppo, would show DTS Master on the Oppo but on the Denon it will show Dolby Digital instead.
Powered the denon off and everything is fine.

I then inserted another disc and then my TV and Denon reboots (I will say the TV reboot is to do with the TV itself). The Denon then shows PL11 Cinema when the Oppo is playing another DTS Master audio.
Restarted the Denon and it becomes normal again.

Any thoughts on what I should be checking?

Thank you.
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post #13156 of 13775 Old 01-11-2016, 09:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ph3ng View Post
Just been noticing an issue where my receiver is not 'processing' or 'showing' the right audio signal. This started happening say since yesterday.
Example: Playing a bluray from the Oppo, would show DTS Master on the Oppo but on the Denon it will show Dolby Digital instead.
Powered the denon off and everything is fine.

I then inserted another disc and then my TV and Denon reboots (I will say the TV reboot is to do with the TV itself). The Denon then shows PL11 Cinema when the Oppo is playing another DTS Master audio.
Restarted the Denon and it becomes normal again.

Any thoughts on what I should be checking?

Thank you.
Might benefit from a soft reset or even a full microprocessor reset (unless that's what you mean by re-started). Your tv/avr reboot thing sounds like an HDMI-CEC thing.
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post #13157 of 13775 Old 01-11-2016, 09:57 PM
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Might benefit from a soft reset or even a full microprocessor reset (unless that's what you mean by re-started). Your tv/avr reboot thing sounds like an HDMI-CEC thing.
Thanks for that. Just to clarify when, I meant that I just pressed the on and off button on the front of the receiver (or on the remote). How do I do a microprocessor reset? Will that wipe all my settings as well?

In terms of the HDMI-CEC, I had actually disabled the CEC function on the TV. Unless I am missing something.

Thanks again.
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post #13158 of 13775 Old 01-11-2016, 10:47 PM
 
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Thanks for that. Just to clarify when, I meant that I just pressed the on and off button on the front of the receiver (or on the remote). How do I do a microprocessor reset? Will that wipe all my settings as well?

In terms of the HDMI-CEC, I had actually disabled the CEC function on the TV. Unless I am missing something.

Thanks again.
That's just in/out of standby really. A soft reset is unplugging it for several minutes and then plugging it back in; shouldn't lose any info. A microprocessor reset is described in post 3 of this thread. It will wipe out your settings (you can save the Audyssey calibration in a file, also instructions at the beginning of the thread for that).

Not sure then what you mean by reboot tv/avr perhaps, sounded like an HDMI thing....what are your hdmi settings in the avr?
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post #13159 of 13775 Old 01-19-2016, 07:56 AM
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Has anyone had this issue:

My 4520ci was working perfectly, and now suddenly, with all sources, the audio is screwed up. Loud (like 100+dB) pops and cracks coming from speakers when I change volume, audio coming from a single channel of a 5.1, speakers dropping in and out at random. Muting and unmuting, or pausing whatever is playing and starting again sometimes changes which speaker channel is working, or enables full 5.1 again - until it randomly drops back to stereo or such. I'll try a soft reset tonight, but I'm hoping others have seen this and know if I need to be contacting Denon for repair work.
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post #13160 of 13775 Old 01-19-2016, 07:56 AM
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double post for some reason

Last edited by jparker36; 01-19-2016 at 08:05 AM.
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post #13161 of 13775 Old 01-19-2016, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jparker36 View Post
Has anyone had this issue:

My 4520ci was working perfectly, and now suddenly, with all sources, the audio is screwed up. Loud (like 100+dB) pops and cracks coming from speakers when I change volume, audio coming from a single channel of a 5.1, speakers dropping in and out at random. Muting and unmuting, or pausing whatever is playing and starting again sometimes changes which speaker channel is working, or enables full 5.1 again - until it randomly drops back to stereo or such. I'll try a soft reset tonight, but I'm hoping others have seen this and know if I need to be contacting Denon for repair work.
I'd try a full reset after unplugging it for 10-15 minutes.

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post #13162 of 13775 Old 01-19-2016, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jparker36 View Post
Has anyone had this issue:

My 4520ci was working perfectly, and now suddenly, with all sources, the audio is screwed up. Loud (like 100+dB) pops and cracks coming from speakers when I change volume, audio coming from a single channel of a 5.1, speakers dropping in and out at random. Muting and unmuting, or pausing whatever is playing and starting again sometimes changes which speaker channel is working, or enables full 5.1 again - until it randomly drops back to stereo or such. I'll try a soft reset tonight, but I'm hoping others have seen this and know if I need to be contacting Denon for repair work.
Sounds like symptoms I had when my second refurb was crapping out. Resets didn't help in my case but I'd do that sooner than later....
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post #13163 of 13775 Old 01-23-2016, 04:32 PM
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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread

Quick question, does Audyssey apply itself to pre-amp outputs?

I'm thinking of getting a iNuke NU4-6000 to power my LCRs and use the 4520 for surrounds only.

Question 1: Will I hear any improvement?

Question 2: Will the Denon's Audyssey EQ and such work for the preamp output like it works now?
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@Dreamliner Yes, Audyssey will work with speakers on the pre-outs, just run Audyssey as normal, and you get everything you do with the internal amps. What speakers do you have? Why do you want more power? Not loud enough for ya?
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post #13165 of 13775 Old 01-23-2016, 05:03 PM
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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
@Dreamliner Yes, Audyssey will work with speakers on the pre-outs, just run Audyssey as normal, and you get everything you do with the internal amps. What speakers do you have? Why do you want more power? Not loud enough for ya?
I've got a pair of Boston VR3's and a VR12. (I'm running in 11.2 with CR77's and CR67's in surrounds with an Onkyo M-282 for heights and a iNuke 6000DSP for subs).

For a long time I've always thought that the receiver was more than enough power. After Audyssey calibration I usually watch movies around -10 volume level. When I go higher it seems as if the speakers run out of gas and seemingly get 'brighter'. Interstellar was incredibly powerful in IMAX and I can't even get close. Lol.

I'm wondering if adding the amp will make them sound a bit fuller. Plus, taking the LCR load off the receiver should allot more juice to the surrounds...

Last edited by Dreamliner; 01-23-2016 at 05:11 PM.
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post #13166 of 13775 Old 01-23-2016, 05:25 PM
 
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I've got a pair of Boston VR3's and a VR12. (I'm running in 11.2 with CR77's and CR67's in surrounds with an Onkyo M-282 for heights and a iNuke 6000DSP for subs).

For a long time I've always thought that the receiver was more than enough power. After Audyssey calibration I usually watch movies around -10 volume level. When I go higher it seems as if the speakers run out of gas and seemingly get 'brighter'. Interstellar was incredibly powerful in IMAX and I can't even get close. Lol.

I'm wondering if adding the amp will make them sound a bit fuller. Plus, taking the LCR load off the receiver should allot more juice to the surrounds...
Could be you need more amp for a full complement of speakers running at reference levels, could be your speakers running out of gas, too. Not familiar with those speakers nor see much detail with a quick search. Are the front speakers noticeably better in only 2ch mode? Might be one way of testing if it's power or speaker....or even use your sub amp on the front pair and see if that gives you an idea.
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post #13167 of 13775 Old 01-23-2016, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Could be you need more amp for a full complement of speakers running at reference levels, could be your speakers running out of gas, too. Not familiar with those speakers nor see much detail with a quick search. Are the front speakers noticeably better in only 2ch mode? Might be one way of testing if it's power or speaker....or even use your sub amp on the front pair and see if that gives you an idea.
Yeah. I'll have to play around with it to see if I notice any changes. Using the sub amp will be best, but talk about cutting the knees out of the sound without subs. We'll see. Lol.
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post #13168 of 13775 Old 01-23-2016, 05:59 PM
 
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Yeah. I'll have to play around with it to see if I notice any changes. Using the sub amp will be best, but talk about cutting the knees out of the sound without subs. We'll see. Lol.
Too bad you're not close, I would just loan you an amp for an experiment....know anyone who could do that? OTOH sometimes ya just gotta go for it to scratch the itch. I don't use my power amps on mains any more, but once I go 11 ch I will. Interstellar I found hard to listen to above -10 except for the good sub parts fwiw.
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post #13169 of 13775 Old 01-23-2016, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Too bad you're not close, I would just loan you an amp for an experiment....know anyone who could do that? OTOH sometimes ya just gotta go for it to scratch the itch. I don't use my power amps on mains any more, but once I go 11 ch I will. Interstellar I found hard to listen to above -10 except for the good sub parts fwiw.
Yeah. I just don't know. Right now I'm watch X-Files and the volume is at -22.

I'm all for buying the amp of there is an improvement. Heck, I'll be able to sell the heights amp I'm using so the net cost would be around $200.

I just don't want to buy for the sake of buying.

I also with these stupid iNukes has 12v triggers. Lol.
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post #13170 of 13775 Old 01-23-2016, 06:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Yeah. I just don't know. Right now I'm watch X-Files and the volume is at -22.

I'm all for buying the amp of there is an improvement. Heck, I'll be able to sell the heights amp I'm using so the net cost would be around $200.

I just don't want to buy for the sake of buying.

I also with these stupid iNukes has 12v triggers. Lol.
The Crown XLS Drivecore gen 2 amps have sort of a 12v trigger and quieter fans and are rca friendly fwiw....but they're still selling for relatively high prices compared to what you could recently get gen 1 amps. Sounds like a good deal on the Behringer, tho....
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