The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 448 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13411 of 13428 Old 08-15-2016, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
It's just a fan. I have my receiver in a rack and fans in the back that draw cool air from the front over all of my electronics. Everything is cool to the touch. Some people have used this cooler. Its pretty, but expensive.

I am a very firm believer that heat kills components. I like fans and use them a lot.

I'd look at the upcoming Denon 6300, thats what I'm getting next. I've not yet had a AVR failure, but I'd imagine the repair process will suck regardless of brand.
I worked in the electronics industry here in Silicon Valley for 40 years. Some of that time was related to the military. Silicon components typically have two failure humps. The first hump occurs in the first 1,000 hours. For every 10*C rise in junction temperature the time is cut in half, so 10*C higher the hump come in to 500 hours and going to a still safe higher temp the burn in time can be reduced considerably which the IC manufacturers did on a qualified line so they greatly reduced early failures which you don't want happening on a mission.

One might choose to run new audio/video equipment at an elevated temp to see if it will break early in the warranty period...

Once past what is called infant mortality hump, that first hump, the next cluster of failures occur around 10,000 hours and we don't want to pull that one in but keep it as far out as possible. There are also random failures which we can't do much about but maybe hotter temperatures increase those events also. For units that do not experience either of those two failure humps can have a very long life.

Knowing what I do I put active cooling in place from day one on my 4520: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Receiver-Amp...kAAOSw7ThUpJJJ I like this unit as it is thermostatically controlled and if the unit is above the temperature setting the fans continue to run even after I shut the AVR down. I see no reason to let it continue to "bake" any longer than it has to.

As a side note I had to pull plenty of printed circuit boards and clean the contacts with an eraser and reinsert them to fix various problems... All those circuit boards had gold plated contacts to avoid corrosion and there were still problems at times. In some applications mechanical contacts, such as plug in circuit boards or ICs in sockets, were not allowed. Mechanical connections are a weak link.
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9.1) Denon 4520CI; Samsung 55H8000 & BD-F7500; L/R SVS Ultra BS, Ultra Center;
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2.1 Ch.) Nakamichi RE-2, CDC-4A, CR7A, Denon 300F/Ortofon 2M Bronze;
ADS L1290(x2); PINNACLE BABYBOOMER SUB, PANAMAX MR4300
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post #13412 of 13428 Old 08-16-2016, 10:41 AM
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4520 red blinking

Does anyone know where to get a svc manual for the 4520, or know whats involved after lightning damage ? Since wa hit the red light just blinks at the power switch

Last edited by Michaeldef; 08-16-2016 at 11:03 AM.
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post #13413 of 13428 Old 08-16-2016, 10:45 AM
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Not sure what power sw is particularly (abbreviation for switch?). Try a soft reset and if that doesn't work then try a microprocessor reset. It may have been damaged more seriously, though, if lightning is involved....

ps Never saw a service manual for the unit myself....
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post #13414 of 13428 Old 08-16-2016, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Not sure what power sw is particularly (abbreviation for switch?). Try a soft reset and if that doesn't work then try a microprocessor reset. It may have been damaged more seriously, though, if lightning is involved....

ps Never saw a service manual for the unit myself....
It had dozens of resets ! All the other gear had fried power supplies, which I replaced and fixed. Just no info for the 4520, thank you
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post #13415 of 13428 Old 08-16-2016, 11:04 AM
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See first post of the thread for manual link.


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post #13416 of 13428 Old 08-16-2016, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by hltr View Post
See first post of the thread for manual link.


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There's no service manual link.
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post #13417 of 13428 Old 08-16-2016, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeldef View Post
Does anyone know where to get a svc manual for the 4520, or know whats involved after lightning damage ? Since wa hit the red light just blinks at the power switch
You may be able to obtain one directly from the Denon Parts division or one of their authorized Parts distributors.

http://denon.custhelp.com/app/answer...ng-denon-parts

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post #13418 of 13428 Old 08-16-2016, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
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There's no service manual link.


Ah, sorry


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post #13419 of 13428 Old 08-24-2016, 02:50 PM
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Using something like this is active cooling

What changes to Audyssey do you typically make? Shouldn't be an issue to tweak to your liking.

For your Dish pass thru do you have picture mode (under video/picture adjust in the video menu) set to off?

Hard to imagine a 10-12 dB boost by raising sub level doesn't have an effect. How did you choose the placement of your subs? BTW if set to -12 then your avr is telling you the gain on your sub amp is set a bit too high, anything above -12 should be okay, tho.

I agree @LOVE inthehd. It should have an effect but the effect is minimal. It does not add more ooph but add more muddiness and echo that is not pleasant to the ears. Also seems to create more pressure on the ears if you know what I mean.

When I start the Audyssey, I do the sub level matching and set them each as close to 75db as possible. The noise from the two Amps for the subs creates an issue with pinning it to 75. I put the Inukes at 50% where the dot is at the 12 O'Clock position and then increase it from there to get to 75 db on each sub as suggested on the 4520. Then I run the Audyssey for all 8 positions where all of them are on my 3 seat couch in front.

The subs are on the Front Left (When I am sitting the couch) and the Rear Right.

I will check on the picture mode on the Dish, I am not sure it has one. I have it off on the 4520. The dish is connected to the 4520 via HDMI and then the HDMI out on the 4520 goes to the Sharp LC-80LE857.

My 5 speakers are from Ascend. The Towers with RAAL, the Center with RAAL and two rears are their Sierra-1's. I have made them mad here talking about how I dont think their speakers are as great as everyone thinks at least in my setup. My room acoustics are bad and that is the cause of a lot of my issues but I still think the sound should not be as bad as I think it is or as muted.

For sound the only options on the dish are Dolby Digital or PCM and I have it on PCM. The Dolby Digital sounds worse.

I still did not get it, should i turn Audyssey off once I mess with what audyssey has set up or keep audyssey turned on and at that point it is working with the changed settings?

Thanks for trying to help me.
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post #13420 of 13428 Old 08-24-2016, 02:50 PM
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BTW is the Pioneer Elite SC91 an improvement over the Denon 4520?
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post #13421 of 13428 Old 08-24-2016, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
I agree @LOVE inthehd. It should have an effect but the effect is minimal. It does not add more ooph but add more muddiness and echo that is not pleasant to the ears. Also seems to create more pressure on the ears if you know what I mean.

When I start the Audyssey, I do the sub level matching and set them each as close to 75db as possible. The noise from the two Amps for the subs creates an issue with pinning it to 75. I put the Inukes at 50% where the dot is at the 12 O'Clock position and then increase it from there to get to 75 db on each sub as suggested on the 4520. Then I run the Audyssey for all 8 positions where all of them are on my 3 seat couch in front.

The subs are on the Front Left (When I am sitting the couch) and the Rear Right.

I will check on the picture mode on the Dish, I am not sure it has one. I have it off on the 4520. The dish is connected to the 4520 via HDMI and then the HDMI out on the 4520 goes to the Sharp LC-80LE857.

My 5 speakers are from Ascend. The Towers with RAAL, the Center with RAAL and two rears are their Sierra-1's. I have made them mad here talking about how I dont think their speakers are as great as everyone thinks at least in my setup. My room acoustics are bad and that is the cause of a lot of my issues but I still think the sound should not be as bad as I think it is or as muted.

For sound the only options on the dish are Dolby Digital or PCM and I have it on PCM. The Dolby Digital sounds worse.

I still did not get it, should i turn Audyssey off once I mess with what audyssey has set up or keep audyssey turned on and at that point it is working with the changed settings?

Thanks for trying to help me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
BTW is the Pioneer Elite SC91 an improvement over the Denon 4520?
Hard to know what you mean by "does not add more ooph but add more muddiness and echo that is not pleasant to the ears. Also seems to create more pressure on the ears" although subs do pressurize rooms, so that may be what you're feeling. Muddiness and echo may depend on your definitions or even expectations, or can be influenced by how you setup eq with your iNukes (assume this is the DSP model since they're ported, so your dsp settings need to be explained, and best done so in the diy sub subforum where there is some expertise on ths). Do you have the ability to measure your subs and share those measurements?

How loud are your amps from the measuring position? No way to quiet your amps or put something around/over them during calibration to keep their noise out of the measurement? How does that affect sub readings? What frequency is the fan noise? Sounds like a fair way to setup the sub levels but I usually aim for a higher level for the subs to set my trim well into the negative range. What do you position your Audyssey mic with? What pattern are you using for the 8 positions? Have you tried the Audyssey setup thread for assistance?

Your sub positions sound reasonable, how did you choose them?

Never heard much good about Dish quality, I use DirecTV myself for sat. As to audio settings why 2ch PCM so everything needs to be upmixed? I'd think the basic DD surround setting would be better so you at least get discrete content when available.

As far as Ascend, I use several myself (Sierra-1s NrT, 170SE & 200SEs). You should be getting very good results from them. Whether that's to your taste/expectation or not, hard to know, that's for you to determine.

It's your preference whether to use Audyssey for setup or do it manually. If you use Audyssey as the auto setup afterwards you may want to use Audyssey for movies, Audyssey Flat for music, or Bypass L/R or turn it off or whatever floats your boat, it's a matter of preference.... If you use Audyssey for setup and then turn it off it just retains your level/delay settings and turns the eq part off. It gives you a lot of choices, there's no one setting I use for everything, I vary it with specific content. Dynamic EQ I also use, Dynamic Volume I don't; if you use DynamicEQ you might note how to use the accompanying Reference Level Offset settings. If you tweak the speaker/sub levels or delay (distance) Audyssey still works; you simply cannot change the basic EQ curves(Audyssey, Audyssey Flat, Bypass L/R).

Hope that helps, but it does take some work to get it right. Your expectations are your own, though. It can be hard to share setup info without sharing measurements to show others what may or may not be going on....your use of descriptive words may not be universal either.

I like the 4520 a lot, my old Pioneer crapped out but I did like the MCACC somewhat, but prefer what Audyssey can do for subs.
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post #13422 of 13428 Old 08-24-2016, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Hard to know what you mean by "does not add more ooph but add more muddiness and echo that is not pleasant to the ears. Also seems to create more pressure on the ears" although subs do pressurize rooms, so that may be what you're feeling. Muddiness and echo may depend on your definitions or even expectations, or can be influenced by how you setup eq with your iNukes (assume this is the DSP model since they're ported, so your dsp settings need to be explained, and best done so in the diy sub subforum where there is some expertise on ths). Do you have the ability to measure your subs and share those measurements?

How loud are your amps from the measuring position? No way to quiet your amps or put something around/over them during calibration to keep their noise out of the measurement? How does that affect sub readings? What frequency is the fan noise? Sounds like a fair way to setup the sub levels but I usually aim for a higher level for the subs to set my trim well into the negative range. What do you position your Audyssey mic with? What pattern are you using for the 8 positions? Have you tried the Audyssey setup thread for assistance?

Your sub positions sound reasonable, how did you choose them?

Never heard much good about Dish quality, I use DirecTV myself for sat. As to audio settings why 2ch PCM so everything needs to be upmixed? I'd think the basic DD surround setting would be better so you at least get discrete content when available.

As far as Ascend, I use several myself (Sierra-1s NrT, 170SE & 200SEs). You should be getting very good results from them. Whether that's to your taste/expectation or not, hard to know, that's for you to determine.

It's your preference whether to use Audyssey for setup or do it manually. If you use Audyssey as the auto setup afterwards you may want to use Audyssey for movies, Audyssey Flat for music, or Bypass L/R or turn it off or whatever floats your boat, it's a matter of preference.... If you use Audyssey for setup and then turn it off it just retains your level/delay settings and turns the eq part off. It gives you a lot of choices, there's no one setting I use for everything, I vary it with specific content. Dynamic EQ I also use, Dynamic Volume I don't; if you use DynamicEQ you might note how to use the accompanying Reference Level Offset settings. If you tweak the speaker/sub levels or delay (distance) Audyssey still works; you simply cannot change the basic EQ curves(Audyssey, Audyssey Flat, Bypass L/R).

Hope that helps, but it does take some work to get it right. Your expectations are your own, though. It can be hard to share setup info without sharing measurements to show others what may or may not be going on....your use of descriptive words may not be universal either.

I like the 4520 a lot, my old Pioneer crapped out but I did like the MCACC somewhat, but prefer what Audyssey can do for subs.
@lovinthehd
Thank you again for taking the time to send in a detailed reply.
Yes, I have been to the Audyssey post when I first set the system up.
I believe I need to find a person who does this as a hobby or for money in the DFW area who can come and set it up for me.

I have exhausted the limit of my ability. I have the Mic and have done the REW thing etc etc to set up the DSP on the iNukes. The iNuke setup was done after reading some of the posts in that forum. I have one attached to each sub. After Audyssey I turn the knobs to 75% on the volume and it still is more noise no thump if that is a better word to describe what is missing. There is bass just not what I recall it used to be. I will try and do the REW stuff again and post in that forum.

I picked the location based on availability of space in my room. There is no other place to put them given my circumstances. Hence the mention of the limitations.

Well there is just not a lot of heart thumping or anything thumping base as any volume no matter how I tweak the iNuke or the Audyssey setup. All I can create is more pressure to my ears and more of an echo. I know at one time they sounded good when I first bought the 4520 but after it came back from repairs it has never been the same again. Wish there was an easy way to know if there is something wrong with the 4520. I have also done a hard reset and then gone through the settings but i can try that one more time.

My readings are taken 4 times close to the middle seat of the couch and twice each on the left and right seats with the last two readings being in the middle. The mic is at ear level and is on a tripod at 90 degrees to the ground.
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post #13423 of 13428 Old 08-24-2016, 05:57 PM
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@lovinthehd
Thank you again for taking the time to send in a detailed reply.
Yes, I have been to the Audyssey post when I first set the system up.
I believe I need to find a person who does this as a hobby or for money in the DFW area who can come and set it up for me.

I have exhausted the limit of my ability. I have the Mic and have done the REW thing etc etc to set up the DSP on the iNukes. The iNuke setup was done after reading some of the posts in that forum. I have one attached to each sub. After Audyssey I turn the knobs to 75% on the volume and it still is more noise no thump if that is a better word to describe what is missing. There is bass just not what I recall it used to be. I will try and do the REW stuff again and post in that forum.

I picked the location based on availability of space in my room. There is no other place to put them given my circumstances. Hence the mention of the limitations.

Well there is just not a lot of heart thumping or anything thumping base as any volume no matter how I tweak the iNuke or the Audyssey setup. All I can create is more pressure to my ears and more of an echo. I know at one time they sounded good when I first bought the 4520 but after it came back from repairs it has never been the same again. Wish there was an easy way to know if there is something wrong with the 4520. I have also done a hard reset and then gone through the settings but i can try that one more time.

My readings are taken 4 times close to the middle seat of the couch and twice each on the left and right seats with the last two readings being in the middle. The mic is at ear level and is on a tripod at 90 degrees to the ground.
Could be something wrong with the 4520 if you've had issues/repairs, hard to know but in resetting everything up something could have changed; sometimes a complete fresh start is in order. Could be what you're basing your expectations on, what is that experience with bass or speakers in general? Cars? Not a good comparison for several reasons.... You keep saying thump so I'm starting to think mid-bass range is what you're after, and you can probably emphasize that with the iNuke dsp. Bought a condo in Grapevine once back in '80 but the deal didn't work out and never looked back
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My 4520 suddenly doesn't allow me to select the media player input for zone 3. Any reason for that? Didn't know it was even possible to hide inputs on a per zone basis.

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My 4520 suddenly doesn't allow me to select the media player input for zone 3. Any reason for that? Didn't know it was even possible to hide inputs on a per zone basis.

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The "HIDE" setting applies to all zones. Is the Media Player connected by analog audio cables as that would be the only way to pass it to Zone 3?

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The "HIDE" setting applies to all zones. Is the Media Player connected by analog audio cables as that would be the only way to pass it to Zone 3?
Yes. It's connected with analog cables. My cable box isn't connected with analog cables but shows up for selection.

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Yes. It's connected with analog cables. My cable box isn't connected with analog cables but shows up for selection.

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Could be a firmware glitch then. Power off and unplug the power cable for 10 minutes and try again.

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Could be a firmware glitch then. Power off and unplug the power cable for 10 minutes and try again.
Ok. I'll try that when I get back home. Thanks.

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