The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 453 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 863Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #13561 of 13587 Old 01-02-2017, 03:10 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 66,614
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12232 Post(s)
Liked: 5571
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayangm View Post
First a Happy New Year and thank you for reading my post.

So I understand that my 4520 does not have the latest HDMI' however by reading the previous post, the later units (>2015) can play 4k?

Never needed it before, but after Christmas my setup has changed.
Here is my (kids) new set up:

Since he got a new Sony PS4 Pro, we moved our Sony 4k TV to the gaming area and I am not able to watch TV/hear sound through the Denon anymore.
Now his PS4 goes straight to the TV.
All the Denon does now is play radio/cd/MP3 and streaming radio.
Firmware update has been completed recently.

So the last response made me hopeful there might be a workaround to be able to see TV and hear the sound through the 4520.

I am not too technical, so please keep answers smile.

Thank you in advance.
As previously stated, the work around is to pass the video to the TV and the audio separately to the AVR. The 4k Blu Ray players that have been released have dual HDMI output for this very use case. The PS4 does not, rather you would have to use an optical cable instead for the audio and then forgo the HD audio pass through.
jdsmoothie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #13562 of 13587 Old 01-02-2017, 06:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtbdudex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 694
So many people are in same boat, me included, HDCP 2.2 is a major PIA.
Only verified solution, if you want HDR from a BRUHD with only 1 hdmi out, like my Xbox1s, is spending $250 on a HD fury to split the signal into HDCP 2.2 for 4K with HDR and then HDMI 1.4 for lossless audio.

This is a side consequence of unfinished digital roadmap when 4K related hdmi/HDCP protocols were being finalized.
The stds committee really blew it here, and just now many consumers will / are starting to realize that.

Maybe that is why Sony is waiting on their PS4 Pro+ announcement, it needs 2 hdmi outs and currently only 1, so re-tooling is needed.

https://www.hdfury.com/shop/splitter...60-444-600mhz/




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mtbdudex is offline  
post #13563 of 13587 Old 01-05-2017, 09:06 PM
Member
 
Lobo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked: 38
4520 owner with a dumb question. While turning on the AVR and TV I picked up the Roku remote and the t lanyard was under the Denon 4520 remote and pulled it off of the table. After I picked it up I tried to change the volume and nothing happened. I looked at the front of the AVR and it says it is clicking through Zone 2,3 &4 but not the Main Zone. I turned the AVR off manually at the front and it idid not turn off the unit and it says that the Main Zone if OFF.

I looked over the remote and cannot figure out how to change it back to make the remote work for the Main Zone.

What happened and how do I fix this?

Thanks!

Denon 4520CI / HK AVR-80:HK ADP303 AC-3
Klipsch SW15-II Sub / Klipsch Sub-12
Klipsch 2.1 Bookshelf
Klipsch 3650C Surround
Energy RVS Center
Samsung LN46A650A1F
Lobo44 is offline  
 
post #13564 of 13587 Old 01-06-2017, 01:10 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 66,614
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12232 Post(s)
Liked: 5571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo44 View Post
4520 owner with a dumb question. While turning on the AVR and TV I picked up the Roku remote and the t lanyard was under the Denon 4520 remote and pulled it off of the table. After I picked it up I tried to change the volume and nothing happened. I looked at the front of the AVR and it says it is clicking through Zone 2,3 &4 but not the Main Zone. I turned the AVR off manually at the front and it idid not turn off the unit and it says that the Main Zone if OFF.

I looked over the remote and cannot figure out how to change it back to make the remote work for the Main Zone.

What happened and how do I fix this?

Thanks!
On the 4520CI remote, select the "Zone Select" button and power off each of the other zones you turned on and then select Zone 1 and power it on again.
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #13565 of 13587 Old 01-06-2017, 04:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,146
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked: 139
4520 owners, is this still a relevant avr to get in 2017? Dont care about 4k. Also, how hot dies it run?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
nohcho is online now  
post #13566 of 13587 Old 01-06-2017, 07:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RobLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Florida Suncoast
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohcho View Post
4520 owners, is this still a relevant avr to get in 2017? Dont care about 4k. Also, how hot dies it run?
I cannot say how relevant it may be in this age, as I also do not have 4K or Atmos. I am using it to power the 5.2 setup listed in my sig below. The Rti12's are quite power hungry, but the 4520 powers them well at moderate volume levels. I have a additional speakers and a couple power amps in storage, as this 5.2 setup is adequate for our present condominium. The 4520 does not run hot... but then, I have it out in the open, not in a cabinet. Overall I am pleased with the 4520 for the $1000 I paid for it two years ago.

Denon AVR-4520ci, Polk LsiM703's, 704c, Rti4 surrounds, some Klipsch subs. Bedroom: Lsi9's, Onkyo TX-8050
RobLee is offline  
post #13567 of 13587 Old 01-06-2017, 09:04 PM
Member
 
brownchiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
As previously stated, the work around is to pass the video to the TV and the audio separately to the AVR. The 4k Blu Ray players that have been released have dual HDMI output for this very use case. The PS4 does not, rather you would have to use an optical cable instead for the audio and then forgo the HD audio pass through.
I had just gotten the samsung 4k player and was playing it through the 4520; that I bought in 2014; so I guess it does not pass the 4k through. The picture is so good on my sony 940c that I thought I was watching 4k. I am now passing one (the audio only) hdmi to the 4520 and the "main" hdmi out to the sony 940c. I think I am seeing an improvement, but have only watched a few minutes of Tarzan.
Am I reading this right and have I connected it correctly?

Also, when the 4k player was going through the 4520, I had to switch the 940c manually to 4k hdr. Now it automatically goes to 4k hdr setting on the tv. Thnaks

xbr65x900b, xbr75x940c, Denon 4520 (all from Chris at Cleveland); and another Denon 4520. Magnepan IIIa front, III back, center
brownchiro is offline  
post #13568 of 13587 Old 01-06-2017, 09:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,146
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLee View Post
I cannot say how relevant it may be in this age, as I also do not have 4K or Atmos. I am using it to power the 5.2 setup listed in my sig below. The Rti12's are quite power hungry, but the 4520 powers them well at moderate volume levels. I have a additional speakers and a couple power amps in storage, as this 5.2 setup is adequate for our present condominium. The 4520 does not run hot... but then, I have it out in the open, not in a cabinet. Overall I am pleased with the 4520 for the $1000 I paid for it two years ago.
Coincidentally enough, i have rti12 too which are driven by emotiva XPR 2. But ill gladly put emotiva away of 4520 can drive those 12s.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
nohcho is online now  
post #13569 of 13587 Old 01-07-2017, 05:13 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 66,614
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12232 Post(s)
Liked: 5571
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownchiro View Post
I had just gotten the samsung 4k player and was playing it through the 4520; that I bought in 2014; so I guess it does not pass the 4k through. The picture is so good on my sony 940c that I thought I was watching 4k. I am now passing one (the audio only) hdmi to the 4520 and the "main" hdmi out to the sony 940c. I think I am seeing an improvement, but have only watched a few minutes of Tarzan.
Am I reading this right and have I connected it correctly?

Also, when the 4k player was going through the 4520, I had to switch the 940c manually to 4k hdr. Now it automatically goes to 4k hdr setting on the tv. Thnaks
Yup.
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #13570 of 13587 Old 01-07-2017, 07:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RobLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Florida Suncoast
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohcho View Post
Coincidentally enough, i have rti12 too which are driven by emotiva XPR 2. But ill gladly put emotiva away of 4520 can drive those 12s.
Probably depends on the volume levels you expect. The equipment I mentioned in storage is an Emotiva XPA-2 and an XPA-5, which I used to drive four RtiA9's, which are also in storage. In our old house we had a rather deep living room and needed the extra power. In the condo where we live now, not so much. In a larger place I'd certainly go back to using the Emo's.

Watching HDTV or BD movies the 4520 gets barely warm. We haven't really cranked it up yet because we do have neighbors. But for what we use it for, it is more than adequate.

Denon AVR-4520ci, Polk LsiM703's, 704c, Rti4 surrounds, some Klipsch subs. Bedroom: Lsi9's, Onkyo TX-8050
RobLee is offline  
post #13571 of 13587 Old 01-12-2017, 10:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
mmarki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SW Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 500
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I'm still having the "HD audio" issue with my 4520. When I start a Blu-ray movie, all previews play, audio/video are working. When I select the audio from the menu, either DTS-MA HD or True HD, the movie starts, I have video, but no audio. If I press the audio button for the blu-ray player, it cycles through available audio on the disc, Dolby Digital plays fine, as well as the Spanish or French DTS-MA HD or True HD soundtracks. But not the English HD soundtrack. I have to change the input on the 4520, from HDMI 3 (Bluray) to another input, then back to HDMI 3 (Bluray) and then I get the HD audio.

I have tried both a soft reset and a microprocessor reset and started the set up from scratch, audyssey etc... and still no luck.

And I also tried another Bluray player and got the same results.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Matt

Last edited by mmarki; 01-12-2017 at 11:04 AM. Reason: updated info
mmarki is offline  
post #13572 of 13587 Old 02-01-2017, 07:58 AM
rlb
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: North Royalton, OH
Posts: 5,579
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1707 Post(s)
Liked: 1368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
If the Roku device is streaming 4k/HDCP 2.2 video, then it would have to be connected directly to the 4k/HDCP 2.2 TV and either let HDMI(ARC) pass the audio (based on the capability of the TV whether it's 2CH or 5.1CH) back to the 4520CI or connect an optical cable from the TV to the 4520CI.
Will the 4520 support DD+ via ARC if the display is capable of outputting it (e.g., Sony Z9D)?

Samsung 65JS9500 and 65F9000 w/SEK-3500U, Denon 4520ci & Outlaw 755
Samsung K8500, OPPO 103-D, PS3, HR44, and Roku Ultra
rlb is online now  
post #13573 of 13587 Old 02-01-2017, 09:20 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 66,614
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12232 Post(s)
Liked: 5571
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post
Will the 4520 support DD+ via ARC if the display is capable of outputting it (e.g., Sony Z9D)?
It should, yes.
rlb likes this.
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #13574 of 13587 Old 02-02-2017, 03:28 PM
rlb
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: North Royalton, OH
Posts: 5,579
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1707 Post(s)
Liked: 1368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
It should, yes.
Thanks.

Samsung 65JS9500 and 65F9000 w/SEK-3500U, Denon 4520ci & Outlaw 755
Samsung K8500, OPPO 103-D, PS3, HR44, and Roku Ultra
rlb is online now  
post #13575 of 13587 Old 02-04-2017, 09:45 PM
Member
 
revco2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: sacatomato
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hi Guys,

I was wondering if someone could help figure out a problem I'm having with my 4520. I'm staying with a buddy, and hooked up my receiver to his speakers in the family room which are Bose Acoustimas 5.1 passive system, and a cheap Sony sub. Ran Audyssey, and everything is working great. Problem is the Zone 2 speakers I hooked up for his patio. I only get sound out of the zone 2 speakers when the source is set to ipod (Iphone) which is hooked into the front USB. I can switch sources in the main room, and the patio will continue to play via the ipod. However, when I switch the source in Zone 2 to Cbl/Sat for TV sound, I get nothing. I switch the source back to Ipod in Zone 2, and the patio speakers work great again. The Zone 2 speakers are hooked up to the "Rear Surrounds" channels as outlined in the manual.

Any Suggestions?

Thank You,
revco2001 is offline  
post #13576 of 13587 Old 02-05-2017, 02:42 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 66,614
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12232 Post(s)
Liked: 5571
Quote:
Originally Posted by revco2001 View Post
Hi Guys,

I was wondering if someone could help figure out a problem I'm having with my 4520. I'm staying with a buddy, and hooked up my receiver to his speakers in the family room which are Bose Acoustimas 5.1 passive system, and a cheap Sony sub. Ran Audyssey, and everything is working great. Problem is the Zone 2 speakers I hooked up for his patio. I only get sound out of the zone 2 speakers when the source is set to ipod (Iphone) which is hooked into the front USB. I can switch sources in the main room, and the patio will continue to play via the ipod. However, when I switch the source in Zone 2 to Cbl/Sat for TV sound, I get nothing. I switch the source back to Ipod in Zone 2, and the patio speakers work great again. The Zone 2 speakers are hooked up to the "Rear Surrounds" channels as outlined in the manual.

Any Suggestions?

Thank You,
Unlike the newer models where both digital and HDMI can pass to Zone 2, on the 4520CI, only "analog" external sources will pass to Zone 2. Also connect an analog audio cable (red/white) from the cable box to the 4520CI using the same source name being used for the HDMI cable (eg. CBL/SAT) and you should be good to go.
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #13577 of 13587 Old 02-05-2017, 02:48 AM
Member
 
revco2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: sacatomato
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I was able to download the manual, and I think I may have found the problem.

"n ZONE2 or ZONE3, the digital audio signals input from the HDMI, COAXIAL or OPTICAL connector cannot be played back. When playing back in ZONE2 or ZONE3, make an analog connection, network or
iPod/USB"

If I'm reading this correctly, Zone 2 will not play sound from the main zone unless I hook up RCA connectors from the Source I'm playing in Zone 1 such as a cable box. Does this sound right?

Thank You,
revco2001 is offline  
post #13578 of 13587 Old 02-05-2017, 03:14 AM
Member
 
revco2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: sacatomato
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thank you to Batpig for answering my question via his Batpigworld website. I Googl'd using multi-zones with a Denon Receiver, and found his article. He confirmed, Zones 2 + 3, can only output via analog sources. As he stated, you can "double up" by running both HDMI and RCA from a source like a Blu-Ray or Cable box. Then, you'll be able to hear the same source thru both zones.

Thank You,
revco2001 is offline  
post #13579 of 13587 Old 02-05-2017, 03:22 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 66,614
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12232 Post(s)
Liked: 5571
You're welcome.
gsr likes this.
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #13580 of 13587 Old 02-05-2017, 08:14 AM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 9,149
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1071 Post(s)
Liked: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You're welcome.
I'm sorry, did you say something?
gsr is online now  
post #13581 of 13587 Old 02-18-2017, 10:19 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Audio Issues with 4520

I've been using my 4520 as a preprocessor to an Outlaw 5 channel amp.

Recently, I've been having audio/volume issues with the following symptoms:

1) Right Front speaker hisses and audio gets much quieter.
2) Sometimes, volume control doesn't do anything. Raising/lowering the volume has no effect.
3) Sometimes when changing the volume, there's a loud pop in the right front channel and the volume gets really loud.

I've tried the following:

1) Factory reset.
2) Take the external amp out of the equation and power the speakers from the Denon.
3) Pull out my hair.

The problem is intermittent and is happening more frequently. Has anyone experienced this?
toadfart is online now  
post #13582 of 13587 Old 02-19-2017, 12:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Knucklehead90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: State of Confusion - 98823
Posts: 8,478
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 391 Post(s)
Liked: 335
First thing I would try is to use the 4520 to power the speakers and see what the results are. This would rule out the amp being bad. Try different RCA cables. They don't go bad often but they can go bad.

Yamaha CX-A5000 - Acurus A100x3 & Outlaw 7075 - Salk Song Towers - Custom Selah Audio Center - Oppo 103 - Marantz TT42
***GO SEAHAWKS ***
Twas a woman who drove me to drink. I never had the decency to write and thank her ~ WC Fields
Knucklehead90 is offline  
post #13583 of 13587 Old 02-19-2017, 12:43 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 66,614
Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12232 Post(s)
Liked: 5571
One of the benefits of purchasing a "flagship" Denon AVR is the ability to reassign on board amps to other speaker outputs. As you're experiencing the same issue using the AVR's FL/FR amps, try using the Custom Amp Assign mode (p. 183 Owner's manual) to reassign either the SBL/SBR or the FHL/FHR amps as FL/FR.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.PNG
Views:	91
Size:	24.9 KB
ID:	1979441  
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #13584 of 13587 Old 02-19-2017, 12:32 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post
First thing I would try is to use the 4520 to power the speakers and see what the results are. This would rule out the amp being bad. Try different RCA cables. They don't go bad often but they can go bad.
Thanks for the suggestions.

I have indeed ruled out the external amp and have tried running the power from the onboard amp with the same results unfortunately.
toadfart is online now  
post #13585 of 13587 Old 02-19-2017, 12:37 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
One of the benefits of purchasing a "flagship" Denon AVR is the ability to reassign on board amps to other speaker outputs. As you're experiencing the same issue using the AVR's FL/FR amps, try using the Custom Amp Assign mode (p. 183 Owner's manual) to reassign either the SBL/SBR or the FHL/FHR amps as FL/FR.

Yes, the ability to reassign the amps is a nice convenience.

I can give this a try later tonight, but since the problem is present when using the external amp, I would predict the problem may not be with the amp; unless a faulty amp in my FL/FR would somehow cause problems when using an external amp.
toadfart is online now  
post #13586 of 13587 Old 02-19-2017, 08:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Knucklehead90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: State of Confusion - 98823
Posts: 8,478
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 391 Post(s)
Liked: 335
Since you've ruled out the amp as the source of the problem it may be the DSP or the HDMI board. Using one of the analog inputs in pure direct mode may confirm this. There should be no processing of the audio signal in pure direct. If you experience the same problem in pure direct it might be something in the preamp section.

Yamaha CX-A5000 - Acurus A100x3 & Outlaw 7075 - Salk Song Towers - Custom Selah Audio Center - Oppo 103 - Marantz TT42
***GO SEAHAWKS ***
Twas a woman who drove me to drink. I never had the decency to write and thank her ~ WC Fields
Knucklehead90 is offline  
post #13587 of 13587 Old Today, 10:35 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post
Since you've ruled out the amp as the source of the problem it may be the DSP or the HDMI board. Using one of the analog inputs in pure direct mode may confirm this. There should be no processing of the audio signal in pure direct. If you experience the same problem in pure direct it might be something in the preamp section.
Nice! Great troubleshooting tip. I'll give this a try.
toadfart is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver
Gear in this thread



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off