The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 81 - AVS Forum
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post #2401 of 10185 Old 01-24-2013, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

And you've run Audyssey I assume...just that it can effect output levels. Also find this hard to believe since my Denon 3808 (130w/ch) could put out good sound that you could listen to from outside my house at that level, It wasn't comfortable to be inside with it up that high. On top of that from what I hear so far from the 4520 it is definitely more powerful than that old unit.

Oh yeagh I ran Audyssey first thing I did.. Like I said earlier I Blast/play Loud!! and MY old Set up with Amps was Loud!! 200 watts a channel and it was overkill , I then downsized to the 7100 and that was plenty.. Ill report back in a couple days..& btw I sold that set up and went to this cause I wanted to Simplify my set up goin back to a powered Recv with 150 x 9 xt32 etc, I guess I got spoiled w/ Sep Amps!!
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post #2402 of 10185 Old 01-24-2013, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

So you are basing your conclusion on the setting on the master volume? How do you know that the master volumes are calibrated the same across two AVR's from different vendors? Have you done any objective measurements?
Well kinda & its probably silly too.. but the only way I could do that if I still had the AV7005 and did a side by side..Im just basing on prev experience with my personal Vol Levals .. It seems turning this 4520 up to 80+ seems a lot, I thought I would get that db at 50 with this!! I only had this 2 weeks too..Honestly I wanted to get away from Amps, they take up a lot of Juice and My rack is nice and Clean and tidy with Amps out!
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post #2403 of 10185 Old 01-24-2013, 09:56 PM
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^ you will find that most owners set the master volume to read as an offset from zero, which is "reference". So, for example, I listen to most of my content at between -20 and -10. Anything louder than -10 is really loud on my system.

By using this MV setting, you can compare MV values across receivers, because Audyssey calibrates a system to have a specific volume at "reference". You might want to try it.
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post #2404 of 10185 Old 01-24-2013, 10:17 PM
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Anyone out there have a harmony remote with this 4520. I find the harmony 650 (just got it Sunday) to be a bad joke personally, so far my up/down arrows or enter button haven't been programmed right from the software(tried 4520 and 4311 settings). The thing is my old Sony vmxxx remote set up for the 3808 can do the whole setup with just a 4 digit code. Also what is the deal with no activity for blue ray or digital media player etc.? I see they vcr dvd laserdisc media pc etc, this thing is old school does it have a clicker that can control a1960's remote set too.
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post #2405 of 10185 Old 01-24-2013, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

^ you will find that most owners set the master volume to read as an offset from zero, which is "reference". So, for example, I listen to most of my content at between -20 and -10. Anything louder than -10 is really loud on my system.
.

Anything louder than -20 and my wife starts yelling.biggrin.gif
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post #2406 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 01:41 AM
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Seriously though does anyone else have a @^#@^#!! harmony remote and find the arrow keys are only working left to right not up and down and no enter???? Really disappointed with this remote.mad.gif
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post #2407 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Seriously though does anyone else have a @^#@^#!! harmony remote and find the arrow keys are only working left to right not up and down and no enter???? Really disappointed with this remote.mad.gif

It is possible that the up/down and enter buttons are assigned to something else in the Logitech profile. Try teaching those three codes using the original Denon remote. I have a Harmony 1100 and the PC software is kind-of glitchy. After I use the software to reprogram the remote, I will have problems with other functions/buttons that will stop working. Logitech makes decent remotes but their software sucks. I have better luck just using the original remote to learn new/additional keys I might need later on.

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post #2408 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

that I have to turn it up like to 80!! out of a max 96.5?? i recall my old Marantz av 6005 having same Vol Power..and that was what 100 or 110 watts x7 , Idk ?? I'll see what vol # i get on the Dial to get with a 100 x 7 amp hooked up, if I get to same leval at 40-50 with Amp I'll know then!!

Two models that have both run Audyssey and set the "reference level" to 0db/80 would each have the same master volume settings regardless of their power rating.

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post #2409 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Seriously though does anyone else have a @^#@^#!! harmony remote and find the arrow keys are only working left to right not up and down and no enter???? Really disappointed with this remote.mad.gif

You can customize any button to do anything.
I would suggest visiting the harmony threads for additional details.
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post #2410 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

Well kinda & its probably silly too.. but the only way I could do that if I still had the AV7005 and did a side by side..Im just basing on prev experience with my personal Vol Levals .. It seems turning this 4520 up to 80+ seems a lot, I thought I would get that db at 50 with this!! I only had this 2 weeks too..Honestly I wanted to get away from Amps, they take up a lot of Juice and My rack is nice and Clean and tidy with Amps out!

if the previous receiver wasn't calibrated so that zero equals reference, comparing volume control levels is entirely meaningless. the difference between 80 and 90. on your current receiver, is ten times the power. FWIW, output power doesn't tell you how much input you need to achieve that power, and there's no industry standard so it can vary. DOesn't matter with a receiver because the input to the power stage is in the same box anyway.

In the end, it's just a difference in the way the two receivers were calibrated, and you probably should just get used to it because it means absolutely nothing in terms of which amp was putting out more power or had more headroom etc.
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post #2411 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Seriously though does anyone else have a @^#@^#!! harmony remote and find the arrow keys are only working left to right not up and down and no enter???? Really disappointed with this remote.mad.gif

This is really strange. I use the Harmony One, and the standard database commands result in fully-functioning up and down arrow keys. I have my remote set up for a number of activities, such as DirecTV, Oppo Blu-ray, Sonos, Apple TV. It works flawlessly, but takes a bit of customization to arrive at a happy place.
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post #2412 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

Has anyone used this as a Pre Pro yet, any one using a Power amp with this, Im not to impressed with this Recv power rating..the Supposed 150 watts seems like 80!! Anyways, this weekend Im gonna hook up my Outlaw 7100 and see the Difference in Vol Levels..

When I get a 4520 eventually, I already plan to set it to preamp mode only as I have no intention of using any AVR to run my speakers. With that said, I would be curious to see your observations of your Outlaw vs the 4520.
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post #2413 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Seriously though does anyone else have a @^#@^#!! harmony remote and find the arrow keys are only working left to right not up and down and no enter???? Really disappointed with this remote.mad.gif

This is really strange. I use the Harmony One, and the standard database commands result in fully-functioning up and down arrow keys. I have my remote set up for a number of activities, such as DirecTV, Oppo Blu-ray, Sonos, Apple TV. It works flawlessly, but takes a bit of customization to arrive at a happy place.

@ avatar9 -- You really need to read my write-up on Harmony's + Denons: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?p=106

Pay specific attention to this helpful hint:
Quote:
Helpful Hint: The default button assignments for most Denon AVR devices in the Harmony database have the up/down arrows on the directional pad assigned to “Tune Up/Down” for some bizarre reason. So, if you are tearing your hair out trying to figure out why you can’t navigate the GUI menus with your Harmony remote, you need to go to the “Devices” tab, find your Denon receiver device, then click “Settings” and select “Customize Buttons” to access the button assignments; next, just change the button assignments for Up/Down to “Direction Up/Down”, and you are good to go!


Universal remotes are powerful but if you are a "power user" type they do need you to invest some time to customize and tweak to get it working exactly right. Harmony's by default are "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator, but they do have a lot of functional ability if you know how to dig in.

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post #2414 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

that I have to turn it up like to 80!! out of a max 96.5?? i recall my old Marantz av 6005 having same Vol Power..and that was what 100 or 110 watts x7 , Idk ?? I'll see what vol # i get on the Dial to get with a 100 x 7 amp hooked up, if I get to same leval at 40-50 with Amp I'll know then!!

Two models that have both run Audyssey and set the "reference level" to 0db/80 would each have the same master volume settings regardless of their power rating.

@ flyingvfreak -- The important thing to understand here is that, as JD notes, the receiver is CALIBRATED so that the volume dial provides a specific output. A calibrated receiver will put out the same volume at, say, 80 on the volume dial regardless of whether it has 50 watts, 100 watts, or 1,000 watts per channel. That's the point of calibration.

More power won't make it louder at a given volume level -- it will just allow you to turn it up louder without running out of steam.

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post #2415 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 11:42 AM
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Even Logitech support couldn't make this remote usable with my 4520 it turns on all zones every time I turn on my receiver and most buttons do not work. I guess it goes back to the store.
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post #2416 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 11:48 AM
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The harmony software seems outdated to me no BD button (makes you pick watch DVD), has vcr and laser disc icons but no apple tv or other player of this type. I realize they need legacy support still, but could they be much more up to date on devices people actually use now also.
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post #2417 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Even Logitech support couldn't make this remote usable with my 4520 it turns on all zones every time I turn on my receiver and most buttons do not work. I guess it goes back to the store.

This is a known issue because apparently Denon changed the power on code. All you have to do is teach the correct Power On command to the Harmony from your factory remote; this has been discussed several times in this thread, including recently.

Quote:
The harmony software seems outdated to me no BD button (makes you pick watch DVD), has vcr and laser disc icons but no apple tv or other player of this type. I realize they need legacy support still, but could they be much more up to date on devices people actually use now also.

Those icons are meaningless, it's just a visual thing in the setup software. Once you actually set up an activity and use the remote it's irrelevant, you can rename the activity to "Watch Blu-ray" or whatever you want.

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post #2418 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 01:45 PM
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Been trying all day with this thing, thanks for the power tip that solves one of my problems... the other big one that I can't get past though is that it turns on my Sharp projector and selects an input rather than just leaving the input selection alone, because input never ever changes, and it has no option to stop it from doing this and because of it has to re-handshake every time and it is slow to do this. If I could fix that I would be pretty happy I guess. At least I won't have to hassle with returning it.
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post #2419 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm, sometimes there's an option for "input doesn't need to be set" that you can use, but it may not be available for a display device where the software assumes you need to set an input.

Here's a thought for a workaround: the Harmony software allows you to set up your inputs under the Device settings. You can basically fake out the software by creating a fake input and assigning some innocuous command that doesn't do anything with the PJ. Then when the software prompts you to choose the input for the activity, you can tell it to go the "fake" input and it will send a command to the PJ that does nothing.

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post #2420 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 02:37 PM
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I'll give it a try, Thanks. Do you happen to know if I could just set all of the input buttons on the device to blank, or would I actually want to teach a new command that does nothing instead?
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post #2421 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 03:09 PM
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FWIW Logitech has announced they will be selling off their Harmony line due their overall poor numbers over the last year: LINK

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post #2422 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

I'll give it a try, Thanks. Do you happen to know if I could just set all of the input buttons on the device to blank, or would I actually want to teach a new command that does nothing instead?

Hey, let me know if that works. I just picked up my 4520 on the way home tonight and will be setting it up. All my components are connected to the AVR and I don't need it to select an input as the same input will be used each time so this would be a bit plus for me too.
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post #2423 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't think you can leave the command blank, you have to assign SOMETHING, but you should be able to assign some command to the fake input that is harmless. If you have some random old remote lying around you could even teach it a command from a device that isn't associated with any of your components.

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post #2424 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 06:38 PM
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Yes you cannot leave a command blank (from experience) I just went in to the setting that it keeps selecting and changed the ir signal to the disc button of my old Technics 5 disc changer(yes the one that opens like a turntable lid) since it is long retired from my setup.
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post #2425 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 06:41 PM
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Oh and thanks again Batpig! As always you have been a great help.
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post #2426 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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sweet, so my idea worked? glad to help smile.gif

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post #2427 of 10185 Old 01-25-2013, 09:46 PM
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So thanks to your helpful Harmony page I just added all of those nice hex codes I wanted. Also Harmony should be paying you for doing their support better than they do it.biggrin.gif
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Well I got the Outlaw 7100 hooked up and turned the 4520 into a prepro, I must say the Power Amp is noticeably different, It is more Punchier , Cleaner and crisp! as far as power I would say this 100x7 is giving the internal amps 150 x9 a run for the Money! Im gonna leave it as a pre pro set up for now to get my ears used to it . I may look for a better 5 channel at least 125-150 Watts and drive my main 5 and use the Internals for the S Backs and Heights! Either way this 4520 Smokes my AV7005!
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post #2429 of 10185 Old 01-26-2013, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

Well I got the Outlaw 7100 hooked up and turned the 4520 into a prepro, I must say the Power Amp is noticeably different, It is more Punchier , Cleaner and crisp! as far as power I would say this 100x7 is giving the internal amps 150 x9 a run for the Money! Im gonna leave it as a pre pro set up for now to get my ears used to it . I may look for a better 5 channel at least 125-150 Watts and drive my main 5 and use the Internals for the S Backs and Heights! Either way this 4520 Smokes my AV7005!
IMAG2455.jpg 748k .jpg file

Its because the Outlaw is rated for all speakers driven at once. If I didn't have Emotiva amps I'd get myself an Outlaw.
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post #2430 of 10185 Old 01-26-2013, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

Well I got the Outlaw 7100 hooked up and turned the 4520 into a prepro, I must say the Power Amp is noticeably different, It is more Punchier , Cleaner and crisp! as far as power I would say this 100x7 is giving the internal amps 150 x9 a run for the Money! Im gonna leave it as a pre pro set up for now to get my ears used to it . I may look for a better 5 channel at least 125-150 Watts and drive my main 5 and use the Internals for the S Backs and Heights! Either way this 4520 Smokes my AV7005!
IMAG2455.jpg 748k .jpg file

Its because the Outlaw is rated for all speakers driven at once. If I didn't have Emotiva amps I'd get myself an Outlaw.

 

The Outlaw amps are a fair bit more expensive than the Emotiva amps IIRC, so that would sway it for me, amps being amps an'all.

 

You guys are lucky to have the choice - you know, here in England, there is nothing that is remotely the equivalent of Emotiva or Outlaw (hence my importing my 4 Emo amps). Here, if you want big, powerful, external amps, you have to spend a fortune on 'audiophile' brands.

 

EDIT: I just checked - the Emotiva XPA-5 (5 x 200 watts) is $899. The Outlaw 7500 (5 x 200 watts) is $1,599. 

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