Which Components Actually Sounds Better - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 09-24-2012, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
k elone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Since the implementation of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD™ Master Audio in new receivers and surround processors, I have read numerous post about how much better the sound is using these new components compared to basic Dolby Digital and DTS receivers and processers of the past.

Although I do not own a receiver or processor capable of decoding Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD™ Master Audio, I am sure the sound is better as a result of result of them being able to decode these lossless formats, but is the sound of the new receivers and processors better when listening to basic Dolby digital, DTS, two channel stereo, or basic analog audio?
k elone is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 09-24-2012, 05:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Knucklehead90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: State of Confusion - 98823
Posts: 7,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 101
IMO the best gains in the past 5-8 years in AV electronics has been in the area of room correction. There is very little to be heard between 'plain' old Dolby Digital and the new lossless audio formats unless you have very good speakers.

When all else fails - RTFM!

♫♫♫ Two Channel Rules! ♫♫♫

GO SEAHAWKS!!!
Knucklehead90 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 09-24-2012, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
k elone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

IMO the best gains in the past 5-8 years in AV electronics has been in the area of room correction. There is very little to be heard between 'plain' old Dolby Digital and the new lossless audio formats unless you have very good speakers.

What receiver or processor are you currently running & how does it compare to previously used av components?
k elone is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 09-24-2012, 06:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 23,149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 388
Quote:
but is the sound of the new receivers and processors better when listening to basic Dolby digital, DTS, two channel stereo, or basic analog audio?

No, not always. If you have very good older receiver, it still may sound better in stereo than a new one. Mfrs have started to lighten up the newer receivers with less robust power supplies and components in order to squeeze in more features such as networking, streaming, ipod and iPad connectivity, etc. So while it may have newer and better features, the amps may be weaker and not produce as high quality sound.

What is better in the new receivers are the advances in room calibration software which really can make a difference.

Even if you have an older receiver which is not capable of decoding TrueHD and DTS-HD, if you connect your blu ray player for audio via optical or digital coax the bitstreamed audio will be better than standard dvd because its at a higher bitrate which is 1.5mbps for DTS audio. So it may not be lossless HD quality but it'll be high quality lossy audio.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 09-24-2012, 07:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Knucklehead90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: State of Confusion - 98823
Posts: 7,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by k elone View Post

What receiver or processor are you currently running & how does it compare to previously used av components?

I have separates - an Integra DHC 40.1 and a pair of amps - Acurus A200x2 two channel and an Acurus A200x3 three channel. They pump out 300 watts per channel. The Integra decodes lossless audio from my Oppo BDP 80 bluray player via hdmi. Before that I had a Harman Kardon AVR 254 with a 7 channel Emotiva UPA-7.

Having said all that - I'm mainly a 2 channel guy.

When all else fails - RTFM!

♫♫♫ Two Channel Rules! ♫♫♫

GO SEAHAWKS!!!
Knucklehead90 is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 09-24-2012, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
k elone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

I have separates - an Integra DHC 40.1 and a pair of amps - Acurus A200x2 two channel and an Acurus A200x3 three channel. They pump out 300 watts per channel. The Integra decodes lossless audio from my Oppo BDP 80 bluray player via hdmi. Before that I had a Harman Kardon AVR 254 with a 7 channel Emotiva UPA-7.
Having said all that - I'm mainly a 2 channel guy.

Which sounded better when listening to basic Dolby digital, DTS, two channel stereo, or basic analog audio? Do you have a seperate two channel sytem? If so, how does it compare to your other set-ups?
k elone is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 09-24-2012, 09:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
pioneertop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: wilington.DE
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 147
I"ll have to say ... its not just about the new components sounding better than the older one's...the older components did the job that they were made to do.. with the limited features.and bandwidth ..
of dvd's ...they made the best of what was then possible at the time...now blu ray disc can use much more data than dvd's ...there is no more compression of the codec's so there is no loss of picture or sound quality....( so new media .. needs new decoders) ...not taking anything away from the old format..it still sounds good .. i'll have to say that the new media ..and likewise the new components sound better...much better ..i was very reluctant to get into the newer components..but when i first ..heard and saw blu ray ..i could not go back....i still do sometimes put on the Eagles farewell tour..on dvd and enjoy every track.... but then you put on the Diana Krall live in rio blu ray ..and boy 'o' boy what a difference..in picture and sound quality ...biggrin.gif

loves...home theather/music/football:)
pioneertop is online now  
post #8 of 14 Old 09-25-2012, 02:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kilian.ca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ex-50Hz, now 60Hz
Posts: 1,901
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Bear in mind there is lots of hype and marketing in the "HD" wording. Nearly ALL Blu-ray movie audio tracks are ONLY 48kHz sample rate which isn't really high resolution "HD" audio (commonly reserved for 88.2kHz and above).

BD movie audio is usually ONLY 48kHz (DVD can do that).
There have been discussions mainly in the BR Software forum about the difference between the new and old formats.

Apart from room correction,
BDs and newer AVRs are capable of MORE channels than 5.1.
Newer AVRs have more DSP power, processing modes and possibly better bass management options and more capable of handling more subs.
DACs have improved their specs.

But as mentioned many mass market AVRs have gone down in weight with entry-level ones down to 15lb.

The basic sound from the final analogue amplification itself is NOT better, some say even worse, just more and maybe better ways to handle or manipulate the audio in the digital domain. Some argue that's not necessarily always for the better.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

Kilian.ca is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 09-25-2012, 08:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
pioneertop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: wilington.DE
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Bear in mind there is lots of hype and marketing in the "HD" wording. Nearly ALL Blu-ray movie audio tracks are ONLY 48kHz sample rate which isn't really high resolution "HD" audio (commonly reserved for 88.2kHz and above).
BD movie audio is usually ONLY 48kHz (DVD can do that).
There have been discussions mainly in the BR Software forum about the difference between the new and old formats.
Apart from room correction,
BDs and newer AVRs are capable of MORE channels than 5.1.
Newer AVRs have more DSP power, processing modes and possibly better bass management options and more capable of handling more subs.
DACs have improved their specs.
But as mentioned many mass market AVRs have gone down in weight with entry-level ones down to 15lb.
The basic sound from the final analogue amplification itself is NOT better, some say even worse, just more and maybe better ways to handle or manipulate the audio in the digital domain. Some argue that's not necessarily always for the better.
........question which ....do you think sound better .. ARCAM AVR600 or.. the ARCAM AVR-100 ?

loves...home theather/music/football:)
pioneertop is online now  
post #10 of 14 Old 09-25-2012, 01:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JHAz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,944
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by k elone View Post

Since the implementation of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD™ Master Audio in new receivers and surround processors, I have read numerous post about how much better the sound is using these new components compared to basic Dolby Digital and DTS receivers and processers of the past.
Although I do not own a receiver or processor capable of decoding Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD™ Master Audio, I am sure the sound is better as a result of result of them being able to decode these lossless formats, but is the sound of the new receivers and processors better when listening to basic Dolby digital, DTS, two channel stereo, or basic analog audio?

Assuming both old and new devices operate linearly without undue distortion at the levels a person listens, there should be no real difference except whatever the new codecs bring. While I'm a fan of the lossless codecs, my understanding is that even the lossy audio tracks on BD use higher bitrates than were common on DVD and are, in blind tests, at least often indistinguishable from the lossless versions. While as I understand it the video encoding still is lossy there's an obvious difference to my eyes in the relatively few movies I have on both BD and DVD that makes the BD worthwhile. BTW, my spouse, who is a visual artist, doesn't particularly prefer BD as far as I can tell. Go figure. So simply by using a BD player (assuming yu can connect it to your monitor with HDMI to avoid data loss) should yield at least the lion's share of benefits available from BD.

But for peace of mind, I'll always make sure a BD plays its lossless track (a few default to the lossy version).
JHAz is online now  
post #11 of 14 Old 09-25-2012, 01:36 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
A general question to anybody, how much is sound quality crippled if streaming Comcast, DVR, HD provided content (DD 5.1, DTS or ProLogic IIz), via optical, to the AVR?

How much of an improvement in sound quality (DTS HD, Dolby TrueHD) can one reasonably expect if using a Blu-ray player, hooked up to their AVR via a HDMI (1.4a compliant) cable?

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 09-25-2012, 04:46 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 23,149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 388
Quote:
A general question to anybody, how much is sound quality crippled if streaming Comcast, DVR, HD provided content (DD 5.1, DTS or ProLogic IIz), via optical, to the AVR?

Not at all. the best you can get from a Comcast box is dolby digital 5.1 which is the same whether you are using HDMI, optical or digital coax.
Quote:
How much of an improvement in sound quality (DTS HD, Dolby TrueHD) can one reasonably expect if using a Blu-ray player, hooked up to their AVR via a HDMI (1.4a compliant) cable?

I think there is a noticeable improvement in blu ray audio over standard dvd because HD audio is lossless.

Also depends on the quality of your speakers too.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 09-25-2012, 08:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kilian.ca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ex-50Hz, now 60Hz
Posts: 1,901
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneertop View Post

which ....do you think sound better .. ARCAM AVR600 or.. the ARCAM AVR-100 ?

Can't really answer that since I only have the 600 and never had the 100. But I'd expect for 2ch analogue sources without processing/room correction they sound very close if not the same at normal volumes. I dunno off hand how many watts the AVR-100 outputs so it is another variable. For MCH 5.1 sources via SPDIF without further processing probably very close again. A more even comparison would be the AVR-350 vs. AVR-400. Note you're asking about non-mass market brands and my previous post referred to mass market brands mostly.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

Kilian.ca is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 09-25-2012, 09:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derrickdj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 146
Comcast, satellite will not sound as good as the BD of the same movies. The FTC limits the dynamic range of all television shows. Increasing the volume on the amp/avr will make it louder but, some audio is still missing.

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus 200 Five, Dayton 18 Ultimxa Dual Sub Cab(2), Dayton 18 Ultimax Large Vented Sub Cab (2), on Berhinger I Nuke DPS amps, Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
derrickdj1 is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off