Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

I am really looking forward to a new prepro with the features of the 4520/8801 because like Seattle, we are both sold on 11 channels smile.gif

+! Me too!

I have had my front high and front wide speakers wired and hung for over a year now waiting for the perfect 11.2 channel pre or AVR. I had an Onkyo NR-5008 and now an Integra DTR-80.3 which both did an outstanding job with 9.2. I absolutely love the front high speakers as I have them mounted in the far left and right corners of the room next to the ceiling pointed 45 degrees into the room and down 22 degrees which hit my sweet spot perfectly.

For movies like Transformers you cannot beat the sound. In the scene in the desert where the bad bots are attacking and the whip chain tail of one is moving all around the screen you can hear it moving from front to back, left to right, up and down, all around the room. The front highs really add another dimension to the sound stage. So I can hardly wait to be able to add the front wides into the mix!!!

Had I know the capability of the 4311 when I was upgrading I would have gotten it, but then another year or two went by and it seemed like a better idea to wait for something like the 8801 with all the latest dacs, modes, etc. to come along. Boy am I glad I waited!!!

Xmas can't get here soon enough!!! biggrin.gif

David Ferebee
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post #272 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I agree that the prepros from Onkyo and Integra are not the same as the 8801. But what are the differences that will have the 8801 sounding better than the Onkyo and the Integra?
Bill

The biggie is 11.2 out. The 80.3 means you must make a choice. So, therefore it's the Denon or Marantz for now (well soon with the Marantz). Plus I am a biased Denon fan for GUI's and the 4311 has been bullet proof for me. However, until final specs are out, I can't say the Marantz is going to sound better, in fact if DSX impementation or NEO X work correctly, there should be minimal difference in sound. I am not in the camp that DAC's make near as much, if any difference as compared to speakers, room treatment, and decent amplification My reasons for wanting the 8801 are fairly specific to me. The price point is fine; less always better as well.
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post #273 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 08:40 AM
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This is the video debate
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/video-coverage/video-coverage/the-great-audio-debate-objective-measurements-vs-subjective-experience.html

The funny thing is the guy who brought it up was the one who believed in objective measurements and not the subjective guy.

I don't expect I will convince guys who believe only in ABX that there are other ways. But I do think differences are often felt when the observer is relaxed rather than in a stressed environment. It seems odd to me that ABX invariably shows no difference and it can be in comparing MP3 to CDs for instance. Yet many are clamoring for lossless HD soundtracks.
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post #274 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
you have it backwards... it is very easy to "measure" differences... whether they are "audible" or not, controlled testing has shown that it's not quite as easy as you state to differentiate...
nice try though... but we can "measure" much better than we can "hear"...

Problem is we can't measure what we hear or think we hear smile.gif and so we go round and round and round in the same discussion smile.gif

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post #275 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Can you provide a link to this discussion?
Audio memory is so poor that even brief interruptions in listening are enough to enhance the effects of expectation bias, especially when we are straining to hear subtle differences which might not exist. In adult humans, after a few days what we remember is primarily a biased summary of what we think happened (i.e. the "gist") , and not the actual details that were experienced. The details usually are filled in from our memories of many similar experiences, from what we imagine we ought to have experienced, or from what someone told us we had been experiencing. See http://www.psmag.com/health/total-recall-or-at-least-the-gist-4576/ (links to some of the published papers are available at http://www.human.cornell.edu/HD/reyna/publications.cfm?showall )

I am guessing he was thinking about one of the TWIT shows : http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/133

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post #276 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

The biggie is 11.2 out. The 80.3 means you must make a choice. So, therefore it's the Denon or Marantz for now (well soon with the Marantz). Plus I am a biased Denon fan for GUI's and the 4311 has been bullet proof for me. However, until final specs are out, I can't say the Marantz is going to sound better, in fact if DSX impementation or NEO X work correctly, there should be minimal difference in sound. I am not in the camp that DAC's make near as much, if any difference as compared to speakers, room treatment, and decent amplification My reasons for wanting the 8801 are fairly specific to me. The price point is fine; less always better as well.

SeattleHTGuy,

My system is only 5.1 and doubt I'll ever see anything over 7.2. So I did not realize the Onkyo's only did 9.2 as that feature was not on my radar. Thanks for pointing that out as I'm sure everyone else knew that but me smile.gif.

Bill

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post #277 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Problem is we can't measure what we hear or think we hear smile.gif and so we go round and round and round in the same discussion smile.gif
Sure we can. Use an FMRI. It's just not easy or trivial to do.
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post #278 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 11:10 AM
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Bill Mac, it's cool. I am just starting to look at this soon to available toy. I have in the past battled royal on this forum,; somewhat foolishly, at times when I should not have. Having said that, the Denon 4311 pretty much does everything you want for alot, lot less. Granted it is now no more but really the only reason for me to jump to the 8801 is a touch of Marantz upscale bling and a desire to go true seperates. Also, I am a huge fan of XLR cables, not so much for the sound but simply a heftier connection. When you add the complexity of external amplification, I find XLR's to simply be a superior connection.

If you never intend to go past 7.2, I see no need to spring for this new PreAmplifier over say the 4520 or the 4311. I do believe you want and will notice XT32. I also am a huge fanboy (to the point, I must preface my fanboyishess as it regards to all things DSX Wide). IMHO wides in a 5.1 configuration far outperform a traditional 7.1 configuration.

So, again my personal reasons for wanting this monster.

1). It looks like my PC.
2). It has 11.2 XLR outs.
3). It has Neo X in addition to Audyssey DSX
4). It has (I expect) a similar and familiar GUI
5). I hope it can overlay a GUI on 3D???
6). It has 4K capability (Frankly I am years away from a 4K projector but hey, it's got it).
7). It's not an Integra/Onkyo. (Bias plays here as well. I have no reason to not look at an Onkyo product that has 11.2 capabilities - I am just a warped Denon long time owner). Also note I had a horrible, horrible experience with the 4810. So, I am not an undamaged Denon owner. I have been taken to the mat by a really crappy set of 4810s.

Things that matter little to me. Every single network function other than maybe Airplay and a control app. That silly 4 port 10/100 switch. RS232 control, slightly better/fancier DACs, that copper base stuff (OK, kind of neat to wax poetic about copper, but its not like a rare earth element or some type of rare organicly grown material- hand massaged by priests), it's remote (I go my own way on control), AM/FM/FM HD, Denon Radio, etc..., etc... etc...

This is all in fun and one need not love/want/covet this preamp. But this thing does have me thinking and getting ready to allocate some not minimal fundage.
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post #279 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 12:17 PM
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Interesting discussion.

I've seen differing availability, ... anyone care to re-cap the release date/availability of this thing? Also, any specifics as to where it would be availed to the early adopters?

Thanks

One specific aspect of interest; I'm not entirely familiar with Aud XT32 and how it's implemented differently in different mfrs/units. That said, it's my understanding that some offerings have an alternative to the "all or nothing" Audyssey processing that's commonplace throughout the AVR/Pre-Pro market.

I'm interested in experimenting with the effects of the processing, but moreso on my sub system, and not so much on my mains. Ideally, I'd like a selectable frequency point, whereby Audyssey applies no filtering (transitition freq).

So, is anyone aware of how this is implemented in this piece? I do apologize if this has been covered in previous discussions.


Thanks

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post #280 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 02:44 PM
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here is what will be even better.

Bill McKiegan of Krell with the forthcoming Foundation pre/pro.

Room correction systems that optimize your audio system for the acoustics of your room have been around for more than a decade — but frankly, they’ve never won me over, and I’m finally starting to understand why.

It seems like such a good idea: Put a microphone in the primary listening position (and sometimes others, too), run some test tones, and electronically adjust the sound to minimize or eliminate the negative effects of the room and the imperfections of your speakers. But some recent discussions with audio experts have made me question the wisdom of this approach. Consider the following quotes.

Laurie Fincham, THX Chief Scientist, during a discussion on his patio: “We’re sitting here talking outdoors, your voice sounds fine to me, and I’m having no problems understanding you. But if we go into the car, into a completely different acoustical environment, I don’t suddenly think, ‘I’ve got to EQ Brent’s voice to make it sound right in this different space.’ Your hearing adapts instantly to it.”

Paul Hales, president of Pro Audio Technology, while he was showing me the digital signal processing technology built into his company’s amplifiers: “A grand piano sounds right no matter where you place it, whether it’s in a concert hall or your living room. You don’t go in and start EQ’ing it for different acoustical environments.”

What they’re getting at is the remarkable ability of the human senses to adapt to different surroundings, a topic discussed in depth in Chapter 11, “Adaptation,” in Dr. Floyd Toole’s book Sound Reproduction: Loudspeakers and Rooms. After discussing humans’ ability to “separate acoustical aspects of a reproduced musical or theatrical performance from those of the room within which the reproduction takes place,” Toole concludes ". . . all aspects of room acoustics are not targets for ‘treatment.’ It would seem to be a case of identifying those aspects that we can, even should, leave alone and focusing our attention on those aspects that most directly interact with important aspects of sound reproduction.”

You may conclude from this that by adjusting all aspects of the sound to compensate for the acoustics of a room, we can actually make the sound less natural, because we’re adding a lot of EQ and phase correction to sound that our hearing system has already corrected for us.

This, I think, is why I’ve gotten mixed results from the automatic room correction technologiesincorporated into many A/V receivers. With some movie scenes and pieces of music, the post-correction response sounds better to me. With some, it sounds worse.

And what are those aspects of room acoustics Toole refers to that we should focus our efforts on? Mainly, bass.

As I’ve explained previously, every room has major resonances in the bass, but relatively even response in the midrange and treble. Typically, the frequency at which a residential listening room’s response transitions from huge resonances to smooth response is around 200 Hz.

You can hear the effects of these resonances in two ways. First, some bass notes will be boosted and others attenuated, so melodic bass lines will sound uneven. Second, bass notes that occur at the room’s resonant frequencies will “ring,” hanging on past the time when they were supposed to stop, and obscuring details in the midrange and treble.

A few who get it right

To my knowledge, Lexicon was the first to make a room correction system that fixed bass problems and left everything else alone. I encountered this technology in a Lexicon processor I reviewed eight or nine years ago, and loved it. Pro Audio Technology is doing much the same thing in its latest amplifiers, giving the installer the option to perform corrective equalization only below a certain frequency.

Granted, those are both expensive and exotic products, but bass-only room correction may be trickling down. At the recent CEDIA Expo, I saw a prototype of the new Krell Foundation preamp/processor, which includes room correction that you can set to function only below a certain frequency. It’s not necessarily because Krell’s getting the room-EQ religion, though. It’s for a reason I hadn’t even considered.

“Our customers are buying Thiel or Wilson speakers because they want to hear the characteristics of those speakers,” Krell president Bill McKiegan told me. “This lets them fix the important room problems without changing the essential character of the speaker.”

The Foundation is still very much in prototype mode — according to McKiegan, the final product will look much different from the plain black box you see here — and it won’t be available for a few more months. And of course, it’s a Krell so it ain’t cheap: Even though it’s the company’s “starter” pre/pro, it’ll cost about $6,000. But still, of all the pieces of audio electronics I’ve seen this year, this is the one I really can’t wait to get into my listening room.

I don’t often review receivers or surround processors, so maybe I’ve overlooked another company offering bass-only room correction. If so, let us know about it in the Comments section below.
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post #281 of 12011 Old 11-03-2012, 04:56 PM
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Non-sequitur

I too attended Cedia,...spent time discussing the tech inherent to Paul Hales' ProAudioTechnology gear at their booth. I've read Toole's book, and am familiar with all his work, and I too have followed the audio industry trends, both pro and home, over the past several decades.

Interesting, especially for old guys like us. However, a non sequitur nonetheless. rolleyes.gif

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post #282 of 12011 Old 11-04-2012, 05:12 AM
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While this is a thread about the 8801 and not about acoustics, I can't help but respond....

I think the two points of view can be summarized as whether you want the acoustics of the presentation to make it sound as if it were in your room, or if you want it to sound as if you've been transported to their venue -- whether you want someone to be playing a piano in front of you, or if you want to be in the field where the helicopter is crashing the audience in Carnegie Hall.

I believe that both are equally valid desires. Personally, I happen to prefer the latter.

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post #283 of 12011 Old 11-04-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

While this is a thread about the 8801 and not about acoustics, I can't help but respond....
I think the two points of view can be summarized as whether you want the acoustics of the presentation to make it sound as if it were in your room, or if you want it to sound as if you've been transported to their venue -- whether you want someone to be playing a piano in front of you, or if you want to be in the field where the helicopter is crashing the audience in Carnegie Hall.
I believe that both are equally valid desires. Personally, I happen to prefer the latter.

For music it might make sense to go for option one. But for movies the whole desire should be to remove all the effects of the room and be left with the ambiance of the place the soundmixer put into the track. So going to the voice in the room vs inside a car that should be a result of the mix not of the room you are reproducing it in. For this reason you can turn things on and off and tune it for different usage. Imho a pre/pro that doesn't support forms of eq that _can_ be used are broken and behind the times smile.gif

Daniel.
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post #284 of 12011 Old 11-04-2012, 02:05 PM
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Only a very few of the high-end pre/pros include room EQ. My understanding is that the licensing for HDMI/HDCP is absurdly expensive on a per-unit basis when only small numbers of units are manufactured.. I suspect many of the high-end companies don't include one of the EQ packages both because they feel Audyssey is perceived as a "low end" mass-market solution, and because they feel that the cost of using one of its more expensive competitors would substantially reduce their sales in the current economy. High-end companies also have relatively few engineering staff, which limits the rate at which they can produce major changes in their equipment designs. I expect that once they've managed to absorb the expense of adding HDMI, more of them will start providing room EQ.
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post #285 of 12011 Old 11-04-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Laurie Fincham, THX Chief Scientist, during a discussion on his patio: “We’re sitting here talking outdoors, your voice sounds fine to me, and I’m having no problems understanding you. But if we go into the car, into a completely different acoustical environment, I don’t suddenly think, ‘I’ve got to EQ Brent’s voice to make it sound right in this different space.’ Your hearing adapts instantly to it.”
Paul Hales, president of Pro Audio Technology, while he was showing me the digital signal processing technology built into his company’s amplifiers: “A grand piano sounds right no matter where you place it, whether it’s in a concert hall or your living room. You don’t go in and start EQ’ing it for different acoustical environments.”
Is this for real? That's got to be the worst take on audio I could imagine from industry "experts". These quotes sound like they are trying to prove that TV speakers are "good enough".

Sure, your brain can figure out that it's Brent's voice. Or that it's a piano. Sounds like these guys want to break into designing boring PA systems. Wendy's drive-throughs could certainly use some help.

Tell me these quotes are taken out of context.
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post #286 of 12011 Old 11-04-2012, 07:51 PM
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Is this for real? That's got to be the worst take on audio I could imagine from industry "experts". These quotes sound like they are trying to prove that TV speakers are "good enough".
Sure, your brain can figure out that it's Brent's voice. Or that it's a piano. Sounds like these guys want to break into designing boring PA systems. Wendy's drive-throughs could certainly use some help.
Tell me these quotes are taken out of context.

Ditto, Some argument...... Frankly, there is no sort of partially available mini Audyssey Room Correction for 200Hz and below. Bizarro conversations over a beer/shot/jager mean nothing to me as well. This new Pre, as well as practically all the higher end Denon gear really comes down to a few basic points. If you believe in room correction technology. Yes.... Drink the Koolaid deep and buy the biggest baddest Audyssey XT32 monster machine or if you don't believe, buy a straight out 5.1 Receiver or PreAmplifier sans any type of EQ. This stuff sort of ticks me off though as if you are opposed to room correction from some geeky philospophical approach, your opinion isn't very helpful when discussing room correction.

I am very much happy with XT32 standard room correction in my media room. It is far superior to my trusty old B&K Receiver. So, let's stay on target. Does the potential feature set of this new Pre look interesting? What questions might one have regarding implementation? How does the multi zone HDMI feature set work? Does a copper base/sub assembly matter? Is there an inherent quality difference between Marantz and Denon exist? Heck..... anything that is on topic. Who gives a flip how a conversation in a Yugo sounds? I don't listen to 11.2 sound in a Yugo, nor do I aspire to.

Cheers.....
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post #287 of 12011 Old 11-04-2012, 08:03 PM
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WSE, Also, your piano analogy is kind of funny. My wife once hired a concert pianist for a company bash, needless to say,crazy ego, uber famous jerk. 200 people were at a convention waiting for him to play. He came out, banged10 notes, stood up and then yelled at the crowd. "I can't play in here, the room is horrific". $25,000 for his payment and he walked. Perhaps a nice bit of room EQ and maybr he wouldn't have peed all over a client event.

I EQ my room for errrrrr, my room. I would EQ my car just the same..... my car...... Room equalization is by definition equalization for the space we watch/listen in. You want to take out the room issues in a manner that allows the original material to be heard as it was intended in that same room of yours. Of course one can argue that the room EQ alogorithm fails to deliver but I still say what the &^%$*&*!!!
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post #288 of 12011 Old 11-05-2012, 02:08 AM
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So back to the 8801....has anyone heard of a feature that hasn't been mentioned yet?
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post #289 of 12011 Old 11-05-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Only a very few of the high-end pre/pros include room EQ. My understanding is that the licensing for HDMI/HDCP is absurdly expensive on a per-unit basis when only small numbers of units are manufactured.. I suspect many of the high-end companies don't include one of the EQ packages both because they feel Audyssey is perceived as a "low end" mass-market solution, and because they feel that the cost of using one of its more expensive competitors would substantially reduce their sales in the current economy. High-end companies also have relatively few engineering staff, which limits the rate at which they can produce major changes in their equipment designs. I expect that once they've managed to absorb the expense of adding HDMI, more of them will start providing room EQ.

Another reason for the lack of built in room correction in high end gear is that folks who can afford them, can also afford in-room room correction... Hehe, that felt nice. One more time: in-room room correction!

Here's a gorgeous room in Holland designed by the man I am going to hire. It's in Dutch, but the pics speak for themselves. It's 5.1 surround, the owner did everything himself inside the space. The room is inside a detached building in the garden. Hope you don't mind it's off topic. Note that a lot of it is diffusion, the high end version of absorption!

http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=75065.0

Yet another reason I heard from Lars Mette while he reviewed the Denon AVP upgrades on Area DVD (German): he feels it takes away the "sparkle" of the speakers. But he has 7 identical Isophon Arabba's with diamond tweeters costing about 17,500 euro's each...

http://www.isophon.de/isophon.pages.php?id=en_805

Building a HT with 7.2.4 layout and ◤SEOS-24◥ LCR.
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post #290 of 12011 Old 11-05-2012, 12:38 PM
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Personally, I find the idea of having a crouching spiderman in the theater just a little disturbing wink.gif
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post #291 of 12011 Old 11-05-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

Another reason for the lack of built in room correction in high end gear is that folks who can afford them, can also afford in-room room correction... Hehe, that felt nice. One more time: in-room room correction! Here's a gorgeous room in Holland designed by the man I am going to hire. It's in Dutch, but the pics speak for themselves. It's 5.1 surround, the owner did everything himself inside the space. The room is inside a detached building in the garden. Hope you don't mind it's off topic. Note that a lot of it is diffusion, the high end version of absorption! http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=75065.0

One seat, how lonely eek.gif On an other note and room correction too bad this never really happened

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/314636/cedia-expo-2011-lexicon-announces-new-mp-20-pre-pro

I guess if you have the $$$ you could get http://www.datasatdigital.com/consumer/info-center/press-and-awards/DatasatHCC212.pdf
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post #292 of 12011 Old 11-05-2012, 06:24 PM
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The Datasat RS20i is a really interesting looking machine from a upgradability perspective. I don't know about you guys, but if I'm going to pay $3.5K (or closer to $4.5K in Japan), I'd like some semblance of future proofing. I know that Marantz's business model is very different where AVRs are sold like Digital cameras and refreshed every year with minor incremental updates but I'd like to think that the pre-pros would be sold differently. The AV8003 is 4 years old now and from a room correction and HDMI perspective is out of date but how do the DACs / transformer etc. compare to now? I know this is an unrealistic dream at this price point, but I'd really like to be able to swap out the HDMI / video processing board in a few years and not have to 'junk' a fairly pricey piece of kit that'd be worthless on the second hand market.

There's some vague hope in the fact that the Denon AVP-A1HD (double the price of the AV8801) got an upgrade board, and the AVR5308 too, but what's your thoughts on Marantz offering the same on their new flagship pre-pro?

I guess I'm just a PC person at heart, I'd be happiest if I could crack it open, overclock the snot out of it and put a custom firmware on it... smile.gif

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post #293 of 12011 Old 11-05-2012, 11:04 PM
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Stay focused. This is a thread about the upcoming Marantz Preamplifier. It is not a thread about hand massaged speakers, dead products from dead companies (or near death). Who cares about a guys 6 year build of a farm hut in Denmark. If you hire a guy for a project that takes 6 years to do, is that a good hire? Sorry but let's try what we think, know or don't know about the Marantz. Anyone really tested Neo-X vs 11.2 DSX? How about the copper stuff. Heck, I'll even accept some type of detailed reason why my DAC is better than yours. Marantz..... Marantz.... Marantz.... please
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post #294 of 12011 Old 11-05-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaorin View Post

The Datasat RS20i is a really interesting looking machine from a upgradability perspective. I don't know about you guys, but if I'm going to pay $3.5K (or closer to $4.5K in Japan), I'd like some semblance of future proofing. I know that Marantz's business model is very different where AVRs are sold like Digital cameras and refreshed every year with minor incremental updates but I'd like to think that the pre-pros would be sold differently. The AV8003 is 4 years old now and from a room correction and HDMI perspective is out of date but how do the DACs / transformer etc. compare to now? I know this is an unrealistic dream at this price point, but I'd really like to be able to swap out the HDMI / video processing board in a few years and not have to 'junk' a fairly pricey piece of kit that'd be worthless on the second hand market.
There's some vague hope in the fact that the Denon AVP-A1HD (double the price of the AV8801) got an upgrade board, and the AVR5308 too, but what's your thoughts on Marantz offering the same on their new flagship pre-pro?
I guess I'm just a PC person at heart, I'd be happiest if I could crack it open, overclock the snot out of it and put a custom firmware on it... smile.gif
Kaorin

In the logic that Marantz will be the 'top' brand inside of D&M and denon would move down it would make sense that the updates the flagship models nearly always got (more rule than exception) will move to marantz. I know this might be weird logic but it does make sense in a way since the flagship needs to be replaced less. The avp you talk about was designed on 2007 and still up to snuff.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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post #295 of 12011 Old 11-06-2012, 06:42 AM
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If Marantz is the flagship, why isnt there a version of DenonLink? frown.gif
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post #296 of 12011 Old 11-06-2012, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

If Marantz is the flagship, why isnt there a version of DenonLink?.

Because D&M has been confused about DL for years, for some reason they can't decide what todo. See the last 'change' to the system just limiting it and changing the cable so even us AVP users can't use it anymore. The whole jitter free (or clock sharing) concept has been mismanaged for the last 10 years inside and outside D&M.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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post #297 of 12011 Old 11-06-2012, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Stay focused. Marantz..... Marantz.... Marantz.... please

Good it will be interesting to hear how good it is! Is it still on track for December release?
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post #298 of 12011 Old 11-06-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

If Marantz is the flagship, why isnt there a version of DenonLink? frown.gif

The basic answer I got was this, to help differentiate between the 2 lines, Marantz gets HDAM and Denon DenonLink.

Life is enjoyable with good quality
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post #299 of 12011 Old 11-06-2012, 11:06 AM
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Marantz has traditionally sold only "black box" hifi equipment, not designs which can be easily upgraded without access to an electronics shop. Sadly, the picture of the 8801's back panel suggests that the 8801 is no different from their previous designs in this regard.

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post #300 of 12011 Old 11-06-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Marantz has traditionally sold only "black box" hifi equipment, not designs which can be easily upgraded without access to an electronics shop. Sadly, the picture of the 8801's back panel suggests that the 8801 is no different from their previous designs in this regard.

In Europe, Marantz offers silver

http://www.marantz.fr/fr/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HomeTheatre&SubCatId=AVReceiver&ProductId=SR7007

http://www.marantz.co.uk/uk/Products/Pages/ProductListing.aspx?CatId=HomeTheatre&SubCatId=AVReceiver

http://www.marantz.de/de/Products/Pages/ProductListing.aspx?CatId=HomeTheatre&SubCatId=AVReceiver

http://marantzitaly.com/it/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HomeTheatre&SubCatId=AVReceiver&ProductId=SR7007

Anyway you get the point smile.gif Why can't he offer it in the US as well I don't get it?
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