Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 100 - AVS Forum
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post #2971 of 11874 Old 02-17-2013, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

The setup is just a hookup guide I think - both outputs are active all the time afaik...I just switched my center to RCA in the setup menu (though its connected xlr) and it continues to function.

They are definitely both active that what made me wonder.
It makes sense that this is a guide only.

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post #2972 of 11874 Old 02-17-2013, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

What caught my eye is that all these neatly stacked circuits are populated with Electrolytic capacitors, which are generally considered a big no-no anywhere in the signal path of a high-end audio device. The presence of such cheap components, possibly aided by a long internal wiring path to get there, could easily be the main culprit of what you are experiencing: degradation of all pre-amplified signals no matter which input is used
the only way to decipher what's really going on is to observe the actual schematic diagram
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post #2973 of 11874 Old 02-17-2013, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

They are definitely both active that what made me wonder.
It makes sense that this is a guide only.
Rich, if you change the balanced/unbalanced switch with signal present, can you hear a level change? Like a 6 dB shift?
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post #2974 of 11874 Old 02-17-2013, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Yes. I was referring only to the signal path, as were you when you wrote:
I took your post at face value. I had not seen your later reply to Mark Rubin where you added: >>I don't know if these capacitors are inside the signal chain.<< That might have been useful to state in the original post -- if you'll forgive me for saying.

Yes, in hindsight it would have been useful. It let to what I called misquoting (saying something, and someone else responding as if it was written differently). To me it came natural to use the term "misquote" for that, it was not meant literally.

Quote:
I suppose I should have read all the rest of this fast-moving thread before posting a reply, so I apologize for that. It's part of the peril of an internet "conversation."

No problem. Thanks for your considerate reply. smile.gif

---

Since no one has stepped in for me, and seeing my efforts only leading to a derailment of the topic at hand (=the Marantz AV8801) I have decided not to respond any further here for a bit. Unless about fun stuff, or technically interesting matters concerning the Marantz or Oppo used as a source.

I am going to further enjoy my 8801, who some now claim I don't own and wasn't doing.
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post #2975 of 11874 Old 02-17-2013, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Rich, if you change the balanced/unbalanced switch with signal present, can you hear a level change? Like a 6 dB shift?

I did not change them while live but I did mix my center as unabalanced with others balanced and found not much change in volume.
It looks like my amp accounts for the voltage change and keeps the volume approximately the same.

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post #2976 of 11874 Old 02-17-2013, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jslaw81 View Post

So its a known issue? No remedy for this yet?

You can easily fix this yourself, just go to the component tab, and relearn the power on function, and use an input button instead of the powerbutton.
And at the same time, make it re-learn the cbl/sat button too, it didn't have the right command for me.
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post #2977 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 04:14 AM
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post #2978 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

It appears that the 8801 does not have 8 A-D converters for the 7.1 analog input, which is why none of the digital processing options apply. The gain changes are all analog. So that would mean there's no delays in the 8801 either.

By gain changes here you mean the 8801 trims would apply, correct?

While on this point in general, the two channel XLR inputs on the 8801 do however have A-D conversion if desired, as I'm able to apply Audyssey to playback from my DAC which is connected this fashion...

@Rich, can you clarify if my understanding of your issues is correct?:

1) Video Conversion on/off is affecting sound quality of Pure Direct mode via 7.1 analog inputs, but NOT any other input (also in Pure Direct)?
2) 7.1 analog input sounds brighter to you compared to HDMI or other inputs (with Audyssey disengaged? Direct or Pure Direct sound mode for all?)
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post #2979 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

By gain changes here you mean the 8801 trims would apply, correct?

While on this point in general, the two channel XLR inputs on the 8801 do however have A-D conversion if desired, as I'm able to apply Audyssey to playback from my DAC which is connected this fashion...
It does appear that the XLR's can be digitized for processing.
Since this is not explicitly stated, I am not sure it is safe to conclude that Pure Direct bypasses the A to D.
It should...

Perhaps this explains the change in sound with 7.1 between Pure Direct ON/OFF. With Pure Direct OFF (standard 7.1), it could be that the TRIMS are applied.
Quote:
@Rich, can you clarify if my understanding of your issues is correct?:

1) Video Conversion on/off is affecting sound quality of Pure Direct mode via 7.1 analog inputs, but NOT any other input (also in Pure Direct)?
2) 7.1 analog input sounds brighter to you compared to HDMI or other inputs (with Audyssey disengaged? Direct or Pure Direct sound mode for all?)

1) I find it easiest to detect with Pure Direct mod via the 7.1 analog inputs. However, I can also hear a change watching DD via the TiVo HDMI.
I am not saying this is a big deal. However, it exists. To those out there that are not completely happy with the sound quality, this is something to try.

2) With my first 8801, the 7.1 sounded brighter so me in Pure Direct than directly connecting my Oppo BDP-105 to the amp.
I chose this one example because it should sound virtually the same.
However, I am not sure this issue exists, on the replacement unit.
For the heck of it, I connected the 8801 unbalanced to my AMP and listened to music, watched some movies including Skyfall and it sounded fantastic.
I am very happy with the sound.

I am not ruling out the XLR's. After you change the settings there is a solenoid click that when you edit the process.
Perhaps there is something going on here beside guidance.

3) Usability Issues: I posted some a while back where I think a firmware update could improve the usability of the product.
Is there a place where these could be collected?

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post #2980 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 07:16 AM
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@Thang,

Why not pick up a BDP-105 and connect the 7.1 analogs? You can always return it if that is not your thing.
The 105 USB DAC is very nice as well. I have been ripping my CD collection tot he NAS and using J River (and my IPAD) push music Oppo.

Thanks,

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post #2981 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

@Thang,

Why not pick up a BDP-105 and connect the 7.1 analogs? You can always return it if that is not your thing.
The 105 USB DAC is very nice as well. I have been ripping my CD collection tot he NAS and using J River (and my IPAD) push music Oppo.

Thanks,

Rich

I have the 103, which also has 7.1 out, though I was thinking of getting the 105 to compare to the McIntosh D100 DAC for music. But the D100 is very sweet!
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post #2982 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I have the 103, which also has 7.1 out, though I was thinking of getting the 105 to compare to the McIntosh D100 DAC for music. But the D100 is very sweet!

Looks like a very nice piece.
There has to come a point of diminishing returns so I am not sure you will hear a difference.
The most difficult part of involving a PC is getting the sound out unmolested.
There are at least 8 sound driver options and they are not even close to sounds the same.
This is when I think a MAC/MAC mini might be the right answer.

Of course, these days you could push (DMR) directly to the AV8801.
I have not played with that much.

The 8801 does the best job of playing Pandora I have heard on a Processor/Receiver.
Much better than my Onkyo's and Yamaha Aventage A820 receiver.
However, in the Aventage's defense it is mounted on an open air rack so the fifth foot is not properly stabilizing the unit. tongue.gif

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post #2983 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Looks like a very nice piece.
There has to come a point of diminishing returns so I am not sure you will hear a difference.
The most difficult part of involving a PC is getting the sound out unmolested.
There are at least 8 sound driver options and they are not even close to sounds the same.
This is when I think a MAC/MAC mini might be the right answer.

Of course, these days you could push (DMR) directly to the AV8801.
I have not played with that much.

The 8801 does the best job of playing Pandora I have heard on a Processor/Receiver.
Much better than my Onkyo's and Yamaha Aventage A820 receiver.
However, in the Aventage's defense it is mounted on an open air rack so the fifth foot is not properly stabilizing the unit. tongue.gif

- Rich

I've done a fair amount of testing of the D100, comparing to direct digital into the 8801, and also against a MiniMax Plus Dac, an M2Tech Young DAC, and a HiFace 2 converter. and I've had and returned the W4S DAC2 in the past.

The D100 is really special if you like two channel music, but my preference is also to use Audyssey Flat (I know there is an additional AD conversion, but it doesn't matter - the summed benefit is still greater than going directly into the 8801 digitally). I use Audirvana on a Mac Mini, and the D100 supports Direct/Integer mode, which is the cleanest way to get the audio out of the Mac. Content is all lossless AIFF or higher res FLAC. I couldn't tell you why, but the D100 is a little bit of magic (maybe the stereo quad balanced mode using the 8-channel Sabre chip?).
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post #2984 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

By gain changes here you mean the 8801 trims would apply, correct?
Yes. Both trims or volume will work. They are done in the same chip, usually.
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post #2985 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 09:47 AM
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The 8801 review quote "Also cool is a fourport Ethernet switch on the back which will lets the 8801 serve a network hub for other components (sadly, it is only 10/100 and not Gigabit.) A USB input on the back will be a welcome addition for owners wanting a permanently connected drive. The 8801 is Control4-certified and also has an RS-232 port". I've read most forum replies, but fail to understand why 4 switch Ethernet ports, USB for a permanently connected drive, and Control4-certified with RS-232 port. If I'm going to route wires in the attic, it would be nice to know all possibilities before doing so. I have a three room situation. One room for the computer, one room for the display and speakers, and one room for the components. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2986 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 09:55 AM
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^^^ I am not sure what you are asking.

But here goes:

Run a single 1 Gig Ethernet cable CAT-5E or CAT-6. You may put your own switch in if and when you need more or faster.
USB has to be local so if you ever get a device that outputs USB It has to be pretty close, although you can get USB repeaters.

Don't know much about Control-4.

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post #2987 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoray View Post

The 8801 review quote "Also cool is a fourport Ethernet switch on the back which will lets the 8801 serve a network hub for other components (sadly, it is only 10/100 and not Gigabit.) A USB input on the back will be a welcome addition for owners wanting a permanently connected drive. The 8801 is Control4-certified and also has an RS-232 port". I've read most forum replies, but fail to understand why 4 switch Ethernet ports, USB for a permanently connected drive, and Control4-certified with RS-232 port. If I'm going to route wires in the attic, it would be nice to know all possibilities before doing so. I have a three room situation. One room for the computer, one room for the display and speakers, and one room for the components. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The Ethernet port part is pretty straightforward. While I don't have a 8801, I do have a 7005 connected to my network, along with a BD player, a WDTV Live, and a computer all in close proximity. Currently I have an ethernet wire from my back room to a switch behind the rack to provide the connections for all these devices. Since the 8801 has a built-in switch or hub, it would eliminate the need for the separate switch. I'm guessing most people don't currently have an internet connection >100Mbps and streaming content doesn't require it AFAIK, being just 10/100 isn't that big of a deal for a media center.

The USB drive attached for local media storage seems fairly straightforward, and Control4 is with regard to system integration/home automation. Try an internet search for "Control4".

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #2988 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have been ripping my CD collection tot he NAS and using J River (and my IPAD) push music Oppo
just curious, what are you using for NAS? external drive?

I've been using WD "MyBookLive", seems to work beautiful so far as an NAS server. My music archive are primarily WMA (Windows Media) files derived from CD collection, 84kbps - 280kbps. However now I'm looking into re-ripping everything to FLAC. Figuring out what's best to use for ripping and/or playback.
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post #2989 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoray View Post

The 8801 review quote "Also cool is a fourport Ethernet switch on the back which will lets the 8801 serve a network hub for other components (sadly, it is only 10/100 and not Gigabit.) A USB input on the back will be a welcome addition for owners wanting a permanently connected drive. The 8801 is Control4-certified and also has an RS-232 port". I've read most forum replies, but fail to understand why 4 switch Ethernet ports, USB for a permanently connected drive, and Control4-certified with RS-232 port. If I'm going to route wires in the attic, it would be nice to know all possibilities before doing so. I have a three room situation. One room for the computer, one room for the display and speakers, and one room for the components. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I am using the extra Ethernet ports on the 8801 for OPPO 95 and 105 players: works fine

I am not sure the 10/100 speed limit makes a big difference: as pointed out that is all you get from a cable modem: but it could be argued the local intranet could run at higher speeds

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post #2990 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 11:52 AM
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Does anyone know what exactly the 8801 video processor does to the signal. I'm referring to RGB, 444, 422, etc.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #2991 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 12:26 PM
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Does anyone know what exactly the 8801 video processor does to the signal. I'm referring to RGB, 444, 422, etc.

Sure, if you turn it off no changes.

However there is a System Information command I found in the excel spread sheet that causes the big rectangle display to show you that information.
It is also shown in the menu information, it shows what is coming in and going out.

On the video side, it can make sense to use the deinterlacing and scaling.
But if you want more, get a video processor like the Lumagen Mini.
Folks either calibrate their displays or with video processors. It is just too cumbersome to try to use the cotrols in these processors.
The Lumagen Mini 125 point calibration is the Audyssey of the video world.

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post #2992 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

just curious, what are you using for NAS? external drive?

I've been using WD "MyBookLive", seems to work beautiful so far as an NAS server. My music archive are primarily WMA (Windows Media) files derived from CD collection, 84kbps - 280kbps. However now I'm looking into re-ripping everything to FLAC. Figuring out what's best to use for ripping and/or playback.

I use a ReadyNas pro which works well enough, but were I looking now, I woulc checkout Synology.
Lots of good reviews.

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post #2993 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I am using the extra Ethernet ports on the 8801 for OPPO 95 and 105 players: works fine

I am not sure the 10/100 speed limit makes a big difference: as pointed out that is all you get from a cable modem: but it could be argued the local intranet could run at higher speeds

The 105 oppose to 8801 has a more advanced DAC have you tried using the audio outs to see if there is a difference?
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post #2994 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

just curious, what are you using for NAS? external drive?

I've been using WD "MyBookLive", seems to work beautiful so far as an NAS server. My music archive are primarily WMA (Windows Media) files derived from CD collection, 84kbps - 280kbps. However now I'm looking into re-ripping everything to FLAC. Figuring out what's best to use for ripping and/or playback.

I use DBPoweramp sottware for ripping CD's and store my main library in FLAC. The Logitech Media Server converts FLAC to PCM in the PC and delivers the PCM music file Squeezebox Touch. I've A/B'd Touch anolog output with my Sony CD player and was not able to detect much difference. I've borrowed my friends Rega DAC and detected very slight improvement in midrange area via SPDIF input. In my opinion Rega was not worth the money for marginal (insignificant) improvement.

I'm investgating if streaming FLAC via Foobar with WASPI USB driver in to Oppo 105 as an alternative DAC would deliver similar (better) result.

- Alex
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post #2995 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoray View Post

The 105 oppose to 8801 has a more advanced DAC have you tried using the audio outs to see if there is a difference?

I have the 105 connected by 7.1 analog, XLR, COAX and HDMI.
I can easily toggle between them playing CD's which are LPCM.

Here they are ranked from best to worst on my system:

  1. 7.1 Analog has tremendous bass, highs and Dynamics and is the fullest most natural presentation.
  2. XLR is the brightest with lots of dynamics and bass. I find this too bright on my system.
  3. COAX: This sound very good about as bright as XLR with a bit less imaging and bass (uses the internal DAC)
  4. HDMI: This sound compressed and less extended in both bass and high-frequencies (uses the internal DAC)

My Revel Salons are very dynamic speakers that will keep producing more sound if you give them lots of power.
Since these are driven by a Sunfire 7400 400 PWC amp, the sound is aggessive to say the least.
I cannot stand the volumes higher than low 90 DB range on average (I estimate at least 10 DB peaks since my meter is slow).
This translates to 70 on most CDs and 80 on low average volume content.
Anything higher and I prefer listening from another room. smile.gif

I have described the AV8801 as bright and it is clearly brighter than my Onkyo PR-SC5507 preamp.
The AV8801 is incredibly detailed and does not compress sound so if your speakers/amp don't compress much, this thing is a beast.
It can hurt you.

I turned down my Rear-Tweeters (-3 DB) but left the front Tweeters alone and that has gone a long way to releaving some of the brightness.

I am much happier now.

- Rich

P.S. for those following this, this is my replacement AV8801 which behaves the same. There was nothing wrong with the first one.

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post #2996 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 03:09 PM
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I'm confused... In his review, Kal compared the 8801 to his Integra 80.2, and unless I'm mistaken, he thought the 80.2 the "brighter" of the two. Did you test in a different way than Kal, or could this be a system dependent issue?
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post #2997 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 03:41 PM
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Under the input source level menu. How are you guys setting the analog and digital inputs, are you leaving them flat or stepping up the db's?
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post #2998 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have the 105 connected by 7.1 analog, XLR, COAX and HDMI.
I can easily toggle between them playing CD's which are LPCM.

Here they are ranked from best to worst on my system:

  1. 7.1 Analog has tremendous bass, highs and Dynamics and is the fullest most natural presentation.


    I have the B&G Radia Z62's for 7.1. These are very transparent speakers with huge dynamics. Maybe I should consider staying with just the Oppo 105; although, I'll be missing the XL32.
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post #2999 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by videoray View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have the 105 connected by 7.1 analog, XLR, COAX and HDMI.
I can easily toggle between them playing CD's which are LPCM.

Here they are ranked from best to worst on my system:

  1. 7.1 Analog has tremendous bass, highs and Dynamics and is the fullest most natural presentation.


    I have the B&G Radia Z62's for 7.1. These are very transparent speakers with huge dynamics. Maybe I should consider staying with just the Oppo 105; although, I'll be missing the XL32.

It looks like you must have those paired with subs.
It all depends on your tastes and your room.
Many folks here have tremendously positive experiences with XT32.

- Rich

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Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A51 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
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post #3000 of 11874 Old 02-18-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

I'm confused... In his review, Kal compared the 8801 to his Integra 80.2, and unless I'm mistaken, he thought the 80.2 the "brighter" of the two. Did you test in a different way than Kal, or could this be a system dependent issue?

I tested with the BDP-105 7.1 analog inputs, XLR, COAX, and HDMI Pure Direct.
For Pure Direct, I would not characterize the PCM over HDMI as overly bright but it also my least favorate listing source.

I have not read the article nor have I heard the 80.2.

- Rich

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