Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 124 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2013, 12:50 PM
Blu-ray Reviewer
 
Ralph Potts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middletown NY
Posts: 9,506
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 685
Greetings,

Are there any irule users controlling their 8801's via IP? I am considering the move to the Marantz and want to ensure that thorough remote commands will allow full control using the irule universal remote interface.

I took a look at the Marantz IP codes for the Marantz and didn't see a mute toggle, or Info/Display option.

Thanks in advance.


Regards,

Ralph C. Potts
Blu-ray Reviews
AVS Forum
My Home Theater
My DVD/HD DVD/Blu-ray Collection
Ralph Potts is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-08-2013, 12:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
mookie b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

Please report it to marantz. I get the same HDMI handshake issues, & also reported it to them. When I did, they responded that no one else has reported the issue......

I reported it and they said the same thing. Randomly, I get no audio on lossless codecs. Although completely unplugging the oppo one time and rep lugging it seemed to lower the times it's happened.

If it happens now, I just use the remote to change inputs and when I go back the audio is fine.

mookie b is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,974
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


I believe the AV8801 has the proper voltages.
It is normal for XLR to have 6 DB more gain which may or may not be attenuated by the amplifier.
The Sunfire had the same gain for RCA and XLR.

However, the Outlaw 7500 has 28 DB gain on RCA (approx. the THX standard) and 34 DB Gain on the XLR.
The XLR is not a problem with the Outlaw. There is no distortion.

The Emotiva's have start with a high gain of 32 DB.
I found this post on the Emotiva forum which seems to indicate that the XLR add 6 more for a total gain of 38 DB.
That is 10 DB higher than the THX standard.

I do not know much about attenuators but they may be in order.

- Rich

Rich, how are you enjoying the Outlaw??
ChopShop1 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 7,575
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 702 Post(s)
Liked: 490
hifiaudio2,

In case it might somehow be related to the bitrate, have you tried disabling "deep color" in your Oppo? It's not used by any video source material available to consumers, so it causes an unnecessary increase in bitrate.

Selden

Marantz SR7009/7.1.4/FH+TM/DefTech PM1000/LCR+TM amped
Selden Ball is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dave Vaughn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 4,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Another annoying HDMI handshake issue with the OPPO and Marantz last night. I tried to get it to work without turning everything off and unplugging by swapping to LPCM and back in the OPPO, changing inputs on the Maratz away from and back to Blu Ray, and just disconnecting and reconnecting all HDMI cables. Nothing worked until I turned off and unplugged / re plugged both the Oppo and Marantz. VERY annoying. Never happened once in almost two years of owning the Integra.

I have a 103 and 95 and haven't had one handshake issue in the 4 months I've been using the Marantz/Oppo combo.

David Vaughn

Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer

Sound & Vision Magazine (Print & Online)

Dave Vaughn is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,710
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

hifiaudio2,

In case it might somehow be related to the bitrate, have you tried disabling "deep color" in your Oppo? It's not used by any video source material available to consumers, so it causes an unnecessary increase in bitrate.

Two weeks ago I would have thought this could be a possible cause, but I disabled that recently, and before this last round of issues.
hifiaudio2 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,710
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,

Are there any irule users controlling their 8801's via IP? I am considering the move to the Marantz and want to ensure that thorough remote commands will allow full control using the irule universal remote interface.

I took a look at the Marantz IP codes for the Marantz and didn't see a mute toggle, or Info/Display option.

Thanks in advance.


Regards,

I dont know about iRule.... but IP control of the Marantz works well with Roomie remote. Mute toggle in on there by default and works. I will have to look at how the info/display button works.
hifiaudio2 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,710
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

I reported it and they said the same thing. Randomly, I get no audio on lossless codecs. Although completely unplugging the oppo one time and rep lugging it seemed to lower the times it's happened.

If it happens now, I just use the remote to change inputs and when I go back the audio is fine.

What number or service center are you guys reporting it to?
hifiaudio2 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
Geronimo.USMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

What number or service center are you guys reporting it to?
Marantz America, LLC.

100 Corporate DriveMahwah, N.J. 07430-2041

General Office hours:

8:30 AM to 5:30 PM ET, M-FTel. 201-762-6500Fax. 201-762-6670

Parts Support hours:

9:00 AM to 5:00 PM ET, M-FTel: 201-762-6392

Tech & Operational Support hours:

9:00 AM to 5:00 PM ET, M-FTel. 201-762-6666Fax. 201-762-6687 Parts

I put it in "bold"
Scott-C likes this.

HTPC/Gaming Rig:
Silverstone CW02B, I7 3930K, 16GB, ASUS Rampage IV Formula
EVGA Signature Titan> 70 inch ELITE PRO-70X5FD
Auzen HDMI XFi> 7.2 via Marantz AV8801>Wyred4Sound, & Emotiva Amps>Paradigm 100'sV5, ADP590'sV5, 690v5, 20v5's, + Dual HSU-ULS15 Subs

Controlling: Two CX7000ES's via MyMovies
Geronimo.USMC is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
mookie b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

What number or service center are you guys reporting it to?

I went through their website and then started an email chain from there.

mookie b is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,710
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 75
lol -- well I tried to call and report.... but their outgoing message says they are closed early today due to the inclement weather in the Northeast. Ill try next week.
hifiaudio2 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
Geronimo.USMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

I went through their website and then started an email chain from there.
Try calling. They are good about picking up the phone.

HTPC/Gaming Rig:
Silverstone CW02B, I7 3930K, 16GB, ASUS Rampage IV Formula
EVGA Signature Titan> 70 inch ELITE PRO-70X5FD
Auzen HDMI XFi> 7.2 via Marantz AV8801>Wyred4Sound, & Emotiva Amps>Paradigm 100'sV5, ADP590'sV5, 690v5, 20v5's, + Dual HSU-ULS15 Subs

Controlling: Two CX7000ES's via MyMovies
Geronimo.USMC is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
Geronimo.USMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

lol -- well I tried to call and report.... but their outgoing message says they are closed early today due to the inclement weather in the Northeast. Ill try next week.
Awesome. Thanks.

HTPC/Gaming Rig:
Silverstone CW02B, I7 3930K, 16GB, ASUS Rampage IV Formula
EVGA Signature Titan> 70 inch ELITE PRO-70X5FD
Auzen HDMI XFi> 7.2 via Marantz AV8801>Wyred4Sound, & Emotiva Amps>Paradigm 100'sV5, ADP590'sV5, 690v5, 20v5's, + Dual HSU-ULS15 Subs

Controlling: Two CX7000ES's via MyMovies
Geronimo.USMC is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
exm
AVS Special Member
 
exm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: NYY
Posts: 1,324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Just to return to my topic from earlier.... My subs are -10Db compared to other channels (L/R/Both). Someone said that +/-10Db is normal but is that really try? I manually adjusted them. Am I the only one? What did you guys do?
exm is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,710
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 75
I find that Audyssey sets subs to what it thinks measures flat.. but this sounds unnatural to our ears. In fact, in my measurements (with XTZ), I find that Audyssey can often improve the frequency response curve in the bass, while making modal ringing worse... or even creating a ringing problem that did not exist before. I frequently find myself wanting more bass once Audyssey is done. I got Audyssey pro so I can dial back in some bass to the Audyssey target curve, and am still in the process of messing with that. I plan to get a Xilica processor and EQ my subs manually and see how well I can dial that in.

So, as far as your -10 being "normal" -- yeah, for Audyssey, thats not uncommon. If you simply want it to not be removing that much in the processor, you can dial back the gain on the subs before running it...but its the same effect.

In any case, make sure you have as much bass trapping as you can afford / fit in your room.
hifiaudio2 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:47 PM
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,108
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Just to return to my topic from earlier.... My subs are -10Db compared to other channels (L/R/Both). Someone said that +/-10Db is normal but is that really try? I manually adjusted them. Am I the only one? What did you guys do?

I always go back and level match, or usually even boost the sub level about +3dB over the rest of the speakers. The human ear is less sensitive the further down the frequency spectrum you go, so for many of us, audyssey and EQ is able to compensate for this, by instead of having a dead flat frequency response, more of a rising line to the bottom of your sub system's capability. Dynamic EQ does similar with the highs and lows at decreased volumes, to accentuate the ends of the FR spectrum so we perceive a more "full" sound

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kal Rubinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC + Connecticut
Posts: 28,494
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post


What OPPO do you have? I have a 93 connected and have never had a handshake problem to the Marantz which outputs to my LG TV. SJ

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post


have a 93 as well and no issues yet, getting a 105 soon, and my fingers are crossed that i do not get any problems

No issues with the 103 and the Marantz here.


Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

Kal Rubinson is online now  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:21 PM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 46,444
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1962 Post(s)
Liked: 1745
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Just to return to my topic from earlier.... My subs are -10Db compared to other channels (L/R/Both). Someone said that +/-10Db is normal but is that really try? I manually adjusted them. Am I the only one? What did you guys do?

Yup, very normal. Many generally must dial back the sub to about 8-9 o'clock in fact before all is said and done.. Ideally you're looking for a final setting of between -3db and 0db so the signal to the sub is strong enough to power it on when in AUTO mode as well as still giving you some adjustment room either way with the remote.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AVRs, Speakers, etc. 

Daily 8am – 8pm EST (including weekends)
Call for pricing - Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech, Oppo
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:33 PM
Member
 
yellowbalt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Guys,
Can anyone PM me regarding good deal to be delivered in NJ? I ran out of patience waiting for XMC-1 since December. My sr-7002 takes $300 for repair. I might as well add that money for new technology.

Thanks appreciate it.
yellowbalt is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
exm
AVS Special Member
 
exm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: NYY
Posts: 1,324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yup, very normal. Many generally must dial back the sub to about 8-9 o'clock in fact before all is said and done.. Ideally you're looking for a final setting of between -3db and 0db so the signal to the sub is strong enough to power it on when in AUTO mode as well as still giving you some adjustment room either way with the remote.

Interesting... I added +10Db for now...
exm is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,894
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Well, won't be an issue I am going to deal with at the moment as the Sunfire 7401 should be here next week smile.gif woot woot!! XLR balanced out is .95Vrms and unbalanced is 1.9Vrms. Anyone else running sunfire with the 8801?

My previous amp was the Sunfire 7400 which had the same gain over XLR and RCA.
There were no issues funning Audyssey.

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SJHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

have a 93 as well and no issues yet, getting a 105 soon, and my fingers are crossed that i do not get any problems
I have the 105 in another room. Great player! SJ
SJHT is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,894
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Rich, how are you enjoying the Outlaw??

I love the Outlaw 7500.
It is a great amp that has taken complete control of my Revel Salons.
The amp is quiet, extremely dynamic, and maintains its composure when driven loud.
I played Nora Jones "All a Dream", loud.
The bass was amazing. I have a bookcase screwed to the wall and a Nautilus decoration that walked off the shelf and shattered.

I prefer the Outlaw 7500 to my Sunfire 7400. It has better bass, dynamics, and detail.
I am thinking about getting the 7700 and bi-amping to remove any possibility of clipping the Tweeters.
This works because the Outlaw amps are independently powered and the supply is large enough to supply all amps. So, they perform similar to mono-blocks.

Then again, there is the 7900..
I would like to know if it sounds any better than its smaller siblings.
If not, then the 7700 would be all I ever need.

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,894
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post

I have the 105 in another room. Great player! SJ

I have been using the 105 with the AV8801 for over a month with no handshake issues.

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Parasound A51 Black (for sale) | Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 & A31 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:07 PM
Member
 
cglin222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi
I think it may have been brought up before, but I still can't figure out

I have oppo 105 directly connect to my tv using hdmi 1 and hdmi 2 to my av8801, and option for split A/V is set for my blu-ray viewing
Also have xlr from 105 to av8801, I set the av8801 cd to use xlr

but in Oppo, when I follow the manual to set for playing SACD

second audio off
hdmi audio off
sacd output PCM
HDCD decoding on

It does not play any music, no sounds, only when I switched hdmi audio to anything but off then it sounds, and I think it's playing via hdmi and not my oppo xlr
How would I set this up, I can't figure it up

Thanks for the help
cglin222 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:13 PM
Member
 
be83663's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Does Anyone Know if playing in a Pure Mode, the XT32 Mode is being used or not?
I am sure somewhere in this forum, it must have been discussed more than once, but I did not look for it.
I would appreciate for any answers.
Thanks.
Ken.
be83663 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:16 PM
Member
 
cglin222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglin222 View Post

Hi
I think it may have been brought up before, but I still can't figure out

I have oppo 105 directly connect to my tv using hdmi 1 and hdmi 2 to my av8801, and option for split A/V is set for my blu-ray viewing
Also have xlr from 105 to av8801, I set the av8801 cd to use xlr

but in Oppo, when I follow the manual to set for playing SACD

second audio off
hdmi audio off
sacd output PCM
HDCD decoding on

It does not play any music, no sounds, only when I switched hdmi audio to anything but off then it sounds, and I think it's playing via hdmi and not my oppo xlr
How would I set this up, I can't figure it up

Thanks for the help

Ok stuipd me, was too focus on setting up the things that I didn't now switch input to CD... duh...
Please forget my newbie mistakes...
cglin222 is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:51 PM
Member
 
dahlgren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Has anyone ever heard the Roger Russell IDS-25 speakers? http://www.roger-russell.com/ids/ids.htm
Dead flat response between 20Hz and 18kHz. http://www.stereophile.com/rmaf2006/102106ids/index.html

http://www.roger-russell.com/ids/reviews.htm
dahlgren is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kal Rubinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC + Connecticut
Posts: 28,494
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by be83663 View Post

Does Anyone Know if playing in a Pure Mode, the XT32 Mode is being used or not?
I am sure somewhere in this forum, it must have been discussed more than once, but I did not look for it.
I would appreciate for any answers.
Thanks.
Ken.

It is bypassed in Direct and Pure Direct modes.


Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

Kal Rubinson is online now  
Old 03-09-2013, 01:27 AM
Member
 
cglin222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I tried to select General/Check for Update, and it's stuck there for so long...
Not sure what is wrong..

I was able to connect the internet, no issue there, not sure why it just keep stuck at "Connecting to server..."

Thanks
cglin222 is offline  
 

Tags
Ken Kreisel Dxd 12012 Subwoofer , Marantz Av8801 , Receivers Amplifiers , Audyssey , Integra
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off