Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 130 - AVS Forum

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WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post

I've been running pro crown amps for years. A stack of 6 right now powering my theater - over 3000 watts into my 4ohm speakers. I swapped in a krell 500wpc to determine if I could hear any differences - nothing. Class D all the way...xls series (I prefer the 402D xls and 602 models)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

For giggles I did try some crown xls amps, 2500's, for my LCR...what was odd was they created a buzz on the other amps/speakers (not the speakers that were connected to the crowns themselves) If I put ground cheaters on the crowns,, the buzz on the other amps/speakers was eliminated. I returned them as I wasn't about to invest too much time figuring that out...
always been intrigued with pro-amp's (cheaper cost). It's amazing to think a Crown XLS 402D amp (300 wpc @8ohms X 2) is obtainable for $399.00USD..........
wse's Avatar wse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View PostI've been running pro crown amps for years. A stack of 6 right now powering my theater - over 3000 watts into my 4ohm speakers. I swapped in a krell 500wpc to determine if I could hear any differences - nothing. Class D all the way...xls series (I prefer the 402D xls and 602 models). Stieger

Crown amps eh! I am not a big fan of Class D

 

Also found plugs for my 20 amp lines: www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/H4416R.pdf


wse's Avatar wse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Postalways been intrigued with pro-amp's (cheaper cost). It's amazing to think a Crown XLS 402D amp (300 wpc @8ohms X 2) is obtainable for $399.00USD..........

Yes especially when you see that Belo and others charge $5000 so the box is very nice :)


comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Well as far as buzz goes, the 8801 has been just fine, minus the laptop connection. The XPA-5 has been noise-free as well so I hope the Sunfire is. I am confident it will be though.

Agreed on class-d...Many of the "old dogs" still have a bad taste in their mouth from some of the early class D tech which had some serious issues. Since then, it has been much refined and is quite suitable for even the highest-end installs.



I hear you. I'm about to order d-sonics M2 series mono's. Proably 3 of them for the fronts and center. A guy on the d-sonic thread runs some Swans with the 1500 watt version, he said he'd never look back. If they can power those monsters they handle mine. I'll bank the money I save or put it towards my subs.
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Crown amps eh! I am not a big fan of Class D

Also found plugs for my 20 amp lines: www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/H4416R.pdf



No Crown amps for me, the ones I'm after are D-sonic, not the ICE ones his new M2 series. Look into it and mark my words the main amplification ten years from now will class D. 90% efficient versus 50% of a class A/B power being burned off in heat. Ill let you know how his 600 watt into 8 ohms monos sound, that'll will be roughly 1,000 clean watts per speaker going into my Revel fronts. If you haven't read the reviews you should.
vcampa's Avatar vcampa
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Would someone mind sending me a pm on where to purchase and what a good price is for the Av 8801, Thanks in advance!
wse's Avatar wse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View PostNo Crown amps for me, the ones I'm after are D-sonic, not the ICE ones his new M2 series. Look into it and mark my words the main amplification ten years from now will class D. 90% efficient versus 50% of a class A/B power being burned off in heat. Ill let you know how his 600 watt monos sound, that'll will be roughly 1,000 clean watts per speaker going into my Revel fronts. If you haven't read the reviews you should.

You mean these http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dsonic/1.html

 

He is laughing all the way to the bank :)

 

Now that's scary: "Most class D SMPS amplifiers are electrically hot at the speaker posts. Touching them and the chassis simultaneously could restyle your hair at high current output without this insulation."

 

The review is quite good until I read this: "The results with the stock cords were quite good but showed limitations on low-level dynamics and definition that could not be addressed with interconnect or speaker cable changes".

 

What a load, power cords make a difference in sound, here we go again :(

 

Plus I thought these were the best Class D: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/devialet4/1.html


WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

found plugs for my 20 amp lines: www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/H4416R.pdf
thanks for this info
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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I've had dealings with Mr Deacon before, and if you were half as smart as you think you are you wouldn't make statements like that, when you know squat about him or his product. I know he's an honest person, but you sound a little too arrogant to listen to reason so I won't waste my time explaining wink.gif
RichB's Avatar RichB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

thanks for this info

You can get these Leviton's for $6.18 for less money and they look good too:

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-T5825-W-Resistant-Receptacle-Residential/dp/B003F77RS8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1363200845&sr=1-1&keywords=Leviton+20+amp

- Rich
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Well as far as buzz goes, the 8801 has been just fine, minus the laptop connection. The XPA-5 has been noise-free as well so I hope the Sunfire is. I am confident it will be though.

Agreed on class-d...Many of the "old dogs" still have a bad taste in their mouth from some of the early class D tech which had some serious issues. Since then, it has been much refined and is quite suitable for even the highest-end installs.



I hear you. I'm about to order d-sonics M2 series mono's. Proably 3 of them for the fronts and center. A guy on the d-sonic thread runs some Swans with the 1500 watt version, he said he'd never look back. If they can power those monsters they handle mine. I'll bank the money I save or put it towards my subs.

Which swans is he running?
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Which swans is he running?



What's up beast, I forget but if you look on d-sonics thread he has the last post his name is d00m. Take a look at his pics, they are in there. He has one of the nicest set ups I've seen and he is a real nice guy. I'm subscribed to that thread if you want a quick link to it.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
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A link would be awesome!
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Take a look at his theatre.
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

A link would be awesome!



http://www.avsforum.com/u/8433786/d00m
WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Also found plugs for my 20 amp lines: www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/H4416R.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

You can get these Leviton's for $6.18 for less money and they look good too:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-T5825-W-Resistant-Receptacle-Residential/dp/B003F77RS8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1363200845&sr=1-1&keywords=Leviton+20+amp
thanks, now I just have to research the cost of adding a 20amp circuit. At this point, with all I have invested, it would be worth it.

This older home provides only two (15amp) outlets per room. Both outlets in my theater/media room are already taken-up (I still have more devices/components to add)- one outlet has a large UPS supporting my desktop PC and multiple peripherals (ie. LinkSys router, Arris modem, Panasonic phone, WD external drives, monitor, etc.,...); the other outlet has the Furman Elite PF-15i which supports my main AV system (AV8801, Parasound Halo A51, Oppo and Sony players, Pioneer Kuro plasma). I'm still trying to figure out how to power a new Epson 3020 projector and electrical screen? May just have to run long (30ft) A/C cord extensions to reach Furman unit.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

A link would be awesome!



http://www.avsforum.com/u/8433786/d00m

That is a killer setup!!! I would love to look at those speakers all the time, but the OCD in me would end up killing having them that far out in the room, and without a matching center...
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

That is a killer setup!!! I would love to look at those speakers all the time, but the OCD in me would end up killing having them that far out in the room, and without a matching center...



It is a nice setup. Yeah they are out are in the room. I'd have to move them back. From all accounts those are some pretty hard to power speakers, so for him to say he'd never look back from a class D amp is quite the statement. Road trip to Sweden? I'd love to hear them.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

That is a killer setup!!! I would love to look at those speakers all the time, but the OCD in me would end up killing having them that far out in the room, and without a matching center...



It is a nice setup. Yeah they are out are in the room. I'd have to move them back. From all accounts those are some pretty hard to power speakers, so for him to say he'd never look back from a class D amp is quite the statement. Road trip to Sweden? I'd love to hear them.

Haha, no DOUBT!!! No roads lead there from the US, hmmm.... having them that far out in the room I bet yields a pretty solid response, but I would at least try to find another way to back em off a shade. for ONLY stereo listening, I would be 100% down...
be83663's Avatar be83663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcampa View Post

Would someone mind sending me a pm on where to purchase and what a good price is for the Av 8801, Thanks in advance!
E-Bay seller is selling it for $2,800 Buy It Now price, and their ratings are good.

I just watched Mission Impossible--Ghost Protocol, on a Blu-Ray, 7.1 Soundtrack.
Very Impressed......
Amazing......
Speechless......

"Large" Speaker Set Up for all my Bookshelf speakers, Polkaudio LSi series, and two subwoofers, each set at LPF of 80 Hz, in my 7.2 Set Up.

I can hear things that I had missed before, at least more distinctly.
Everytime, I confuse that these are Movie Soundtracks--not real sounds in my Living Room.
They just Sound So Real.
And the Dialogue Clear (Set the Volume at just -45 dB in Relative Scale).
This AV8801 will be my Pre/Pro for the next 10 years (o.k., at least for the next 5 years for sure).

Ken.
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Haha, no DOUBT!!! No roads lead there from the US, hmmm.... having them that far out in the room I bet yields a pretty solid response, but I would at least try to find another way to back em off a shade. for ONLY stereo listening, I would be 100% down...



I bet they'd sound amazing in a separate two channel room. Nice of us to make plans with his speakers biggrin.gif
RichB's Avatar RichB
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

You mean these http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dsonic/1.html

He is laughing all the way to the bank smile.gif

Now that's scary: "Most class D SMPS amplifiers are electrically hot at the speaker posts. Touching them and the chassis simultaneously could restyle your hair at high current output without this insulation."


The review is quite good until I read this: "
The results with the stock cords were quite good but showed limitations on low-level dynamics and definition that could not be addressed with interconnect or speaker cable changes".


What a load, power cords make a difference in sound, here we go again frown.gif


Plus I thought these were the best Class D: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/devialet4/1.html

So I went ot D-Sonic.net to read about these new amps which have all the qualities that the previous amps had.
Where are the specs? All I see is power in ohms. What about distortion?

It would be nice to seem them measured.

- Rich
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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RichB's Avatar RichB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post


Those are a bit odd.
Bandwidth is not listed with +/- DB.
Damping factor is limited to 1KHZ.
No slew rate.

There have been issues with class-d amps handling of phase as well.

None of this may matter to the sound quality.
Personally, I will stay conventional.
I like the way the Outlaw keeps the sound composed and distinct when played loud.
Perhaps this is where the different THD rating between the Outlaw and the Sunfire come into play.

Here are the Specs for the Outlaw 7500. You can find these same type of specs from Emotiva, Parasound, etc.


- Rich
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Those are a bit odd.
Bandwidth is not listed with +/- DB.
Damping factor is limited to 1KHZ.
No slew rate.

There have been issues with class-d amps handling of phase as well.

None of this may matter to the sound quality.
Personally, I will stay conventional.
I like the way the Outlaw keeps the sound composed and distinct when played loud.
Perhaps this is where the different THD rating between the Outlaw and the Sunfire come into play.

Here are the Specs for the Outlaw 7500. You can find these same type of specs from Emotiva, Parasound, etc.


- Rich



I hear what your saying, but what I dislike about conventional amps is their efficiency. They waste half of what they consume, and the only specs they will post are the ones that look good. Bob Carver rated all his Sunfire amps at the same .5 THD as he didn't feel anything below .10 was audible, their actual THD was much lower. I hope I remembered that correctly but I'm almost positive the numbers are right. Either way that was his reasoning. All of the big named amps fall below the audible level when it comes to THD. Until they heat up, which is what I like about Sunfire, they run cooler than a class A/B amp, Heat or lack of heat is one reason I'm looking into class D.
Woof Woof's Avatar Woof Woof
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Woof! I will wait a bit longer on Class-D since I did not care for the ICE based D-Sonic I tried a few years ago.

For internet-direct, I am not aware of class-D companies that offer an in-house trial like Outlaw.
When ATI makes one, I might have a listen again.

My Sunfire 7400 also had dynamic power demands so it sounded much better plugged directly into the 20 amp circuit.
Other than the slight hiss you can hear with your ear against the tweeter and minimul transformer hum, there were no issues.
You should not have any problems with the 7401.

- Rich

I am pretty sure Wyred4Sound offers trials on the power amps
AlxG's Avatar AlxG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I hear what your saying, but what I dislike about conventional amps is their efficiency. They waste half of what they consume, and the only specs they will post are the ones that look good. Bob Carver rated all his Sunfire amps at the same .5 THD as he didn't feel anything below .10 was audible, their actual THD was much lower. I hope I remembered that correctly but I'm almost positive the numbers are right. Either way that was his reasoning. All of the big named amps fall below the audible level when it comes to THD. Until they heat up, which is what I like about Sunfire, they run cooler than a class A/B amp, Heat or lack of heat is one reason I'm looking into class D.

90% efficiency number may be misleading. Try asking the the company about their total amp power dissipation at idle with SMPS in the system.

For example, the Ncore NC400 amp dissipates 5W while idling, and their SMPS power supply dissipates an additional 10W. The enclosure can get quiet toasty if it's improperly vented...
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

90% efficiency number may be misleading. Try asking the the company about their total amp power dissipation at idle with SMPS in the system.

For example, the Ncore NC400 amp dissipates 5W while idling, and their SMPS power supply dissipates an additional 10W. The enclosure can get quiet toasty if it's improperly vented...



Don't forget d-sonics new amps aren't using the ICE modules. From people that have them their statements are they barely get above room temperature, at any level. I'm not here to change minds really, mines already made up. But if class D has so many faults then why are many of the big names getting into the mix? Because it's the amp of the future. Amp technology was basically stalled for decades, with only minor changes being made. Also if you think a traditional amps sound doesn't degrade after it heats up then why do they need fans? Toasty is one thing, being able to fry an egg is another. I'm off topic but that's my two cents.
mankite's Avatar mankite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Don't forget d-sonics new amps aren't using the ICE modules. From people that have them their statements are they barely get above room temperature, at any level. I'm not here to change minds really, mines already made up. But if class D has so many faults then why are many of the big names getting into the mix? Because it's the amp of the future. Amp technology was basically stalled for decades, with only minor changes being made. Also if you think a traditional amps sound doesn't degrade after it heats up then why do they need fans? Toasty is one thing, being able to fry an egg is another. I'm off topic but that's my two cents.

Probably for the same reason LCD came along, and it had nothing to do with having better picture quality then Plasma.
gurkey's Avatar gurkey
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Class D-amps are much cheaper to produce... if they work.
Most of the early adopters (manufacturers) turned their back to class D after some experimenting, leaving only a few on the table.
Those class D amps - due to their sonic limitations - are mostly used as plate amps for sub woofers or for PA gear delivering high power at low cost (and low heat) because the heat sinks (and the casing) can be made much smaller. Add a switching power supply and you got a low cost solution for not so SQ critical environments.
Most of their sonic faults are located in the mid and high frequency range when listening carefully.
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