Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 131 - AVS Forum
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post #3901 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 03:38 AM
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I have been using tonnes of ICEpower amps (Bel Canto and Wyred4Sound) and think they work very well. Granted, these have been upgraded by Bel Canto and W4S a little which helps. My system consists of the W4S MC ICEBox 6xASP500, 2 REF1000Ms (ASP 1000) mono blocks, REF500M (third gen ASX) monoblock. I was using the REF1000Ms for the front L/R to drive my Thiel CS3.7s and Thiels are traditionally very power hungry. When I was looking for amplification for the Thiels, I compared the Bel Cantos against Bryston linear amps but ended up preferring the Bel Cantos for their amazing control. I only relegated the Bel Cantos for surround duties when I got Electrocompaniet Nemos but those are significantly more pricey than the Bel Cantos.

I recently had the chance to compare the W4S ST-500 to an Ayre AX-5 which costs US$10k and I didn't think the W4S lost out in any respects. If anything, the bass was just much better controlled even though the speakers I was using (Martin Logan Ethos) already has a power amp for the built-in subwoofer. The highs were also more extended on the W4S.
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post #3902 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

Class D-amps are much cheaper to produce... if they work.
Most of the early adopters (manufacturers) turned their back to class D after some experimenting, leaving only a few on the table.
Those class D amps - due to their sonic limitations - are mostly used as plate amps for sub woofers or for PA gear delivering high power at low cost (and low heat) because the heat sinks (and the casing) can be made much smaller. Add a switching power supply and you got a low cost solution for not so SQ critical environments.
Most of their sonic faults are located in the mid and high frequency range when listening carefully.



Not anymore. I invite you to research the new ones. Just sayin, they aren't what they used to be and many of the big name amplifier company's are making their own version for main amplification not just subs. I know guys on here that went from traditional amps to class D and won't look back. Some will brush this off because unless they spend 5-10 grand on an amp they wouldn't feel right, others won't like the sound, but many do. By all accounts it is in between solid state sound and tube sound. ICE was one thing but Mr D's new M2's are beyond that core. Get used to it they are here to stay and taking a huge chunk out of the amp market. Check out this link to a guy who uses the D-Sonics, tell me he couldn't afford any amp he chooses, and tell me those Swans aren't monsters to drive. Look at his pics. http://www.avsforum.com/u/8433786/d00m
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post #3903 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

I have been using tonnes of ICEpower amps (Bel Canto and Wyred4Sound) and think they work very well. Granted, these have been upgraded by Bel Canto and W4S a little which helps. My system consists of the W4S MC ICEBox 6xASP500, 2 REF1000Ms (ASP 1000) mono blocks, REF500M (third gen ASX) monoblock. I was using the REF1000Ms for the front L/R to drive my Thiel CS3.7s and Thiels are traditionally very power hungry. When I was looking for amplification for the Thiels, I compared the Bel Cantos against Bryston linear amps but ended up preferring the Bel Cantos for their amazing control. I only relegated the Bel Cantos for surround duties when I got Electrocompaniet Nemos but those are significantly more pricey than the Bel Cantos.

I recently had the chance to compare the W4S ST-500 to an Ayre AX-5 which costs US$10k and I didn't think the W4S lost out in any respects. If anything, the bass was just much better controlled even though the speakers I was using (Martin Logan Ethos) already has a power amp for the built-in subwoofer. The highs were also more extended on the W4S.



Nice, it sounds like your speakers aren't easy to drive, and that's what I hear from others that they like the new found control they have. It sounds like you did your research before you purchased your Bel Cantos before you bought them. How long have you used class D for your main amps?
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post #3904 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mankite View Post

Probably for the same reason LCD came along, and it had nothing to do with having better picture quality then Plasma.



Could be, but just like plasma, LCD and other technologies it comes down to preference. Some like the brightness of LCD versus the warmth of plasma. I like both. Some like the warmth of tube sound or solid state sound or something in between. Ok I'm done with the class D thing, I feel like a salesman, well I am just not amplifiers tongue.gif
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post #3905 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Don't forget d-sonics new amps aren't using the ICE modules. From people that have them their statements are they barely get above room temperature, at any level. I'm not here to change minds really, mines already made up. But if class D has so many faults then why are many of the big names getting into the mix? Because it's the amp of the future. Amp technology was basically stalled for decades, with only minor changes being made. Also if you think a traditional amps sound doesn't degrade after it heats up then why do they need fans? Toasty is one thing, being able to fry an egg is another. I'm off topic but that's my two cents.

I heard that too and I have owned two Sunfire amps.
I did an A/B as best I could with my Salons and I preferred the Outlaw for bass control and clarity.
Especially, when you turn it up.

I wonder what Bob Carver would have said if his amps hat .1% distortion. wink.gif

Not all distortion is created equal Tube amp distortion is not harsh like SS amps.

BTW, when you turned my Sunfire OFF it used 40 watts.
The idle power was also about 40 watts. In other words, it did not turn off.

The Outlaw uses 1 watt when off and idles at 80 watts.
When I watch TV or listen to music it is just warm maybe 90 degrees.
Since I use my system on average 8 hours a day, it is clear that the Outlaw is a greener amp smile.gif

However, the Marantz is over 100 degrees. Both are in an open cabinet with lots of air.
I have to playing music at close to 100 DB to get the Outlaw to the same temperature as the AV8801. wink.gif


Concerning the D-Sonic Non-Ice modules:
That could mean these are a better design or it could mean that these are a cheap Chinese knock-off.
There is nothing in those specs to indicate superiority.

All you have is 6-mooney reviews.
A universe where power cords make all the difference.

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post #3906 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I heard that too and I have owned two Sunfire amps.
I did an A/B as best I could with my Salons and I preferred the Outlaw for bass control and clarity.
Especially, when you turn it up.

I wonder what Bob Carver would have said if his amps hat .1% distortion. wink.gif

Not all distortion is created equal Tube amp distortion is not harsh like SS amps.

BTW, when you turned my Sunfire OFF it used 40 watts.
The idle power was also about 40 watts. In other words, it did not turn off.

The Outlaw uses 1 watt when off and idles at 80 watts.
When I watch TV or listen to music it is just warm maybe 90 degrees.
Since I use my system on average 8 hours a day, it is clear that the Outlaw is a greener amp smile.gif

However, the Marantz is over 100 degrees. Both are in an open cabinet with lots of air.
I have to playing music at close to 100 DB to get the Outlaw to the same temperature as the AV8801. wink.gif


Concerning the D-Sonic Non-Ice modules:
That could mean these are a better design or it could mean that these are a cheap Chinese knock-off.
There is nothing in those specs to indicate superiority.

All you have is 6-mooney reviews.
A universe where power cords make all the difference.

- Rich



I did notice the Sunfire uses way too much power at idle a couple of years ago. I unplug mine and let it warm up at very low volumes for about 40 minutes before I gradually turn it up. Sounds dumb but I don't like that big draw at idle. I could pick out one or two or three statements made by the reviewers of any amp or product where they don't like it. Other than 6 moons there's a dedicated following for class D amplifiers, some are on a budget and others can afford the very best amps. I'm not happy with approximately 300 WPC going into my Revels and the THD that's introduced as I crank up the volume, I want the same volume when I turn it half way up so there's very little distortion going into them wink.gif


I have to add to this. How many people on this very thread do you think are using after market power cords, or silver interconnects or some other high end cable/cord because they think it sounds better or they'd feel inadequate without them? My guess is quite a few. Do I believe there's any audible difference unless you hear as well as a dog? Hell no.
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post #3907 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I did notice the Sunfire uses way too much power at idle a couple of years ago. I unplug mine and let it warm up at very low volumes for about 40 minutes before I gradually turn it up. Sounds dumb but I don't like that big draw at idle. I could pick out one or two or three statements made by the reviewers of any amp or product where they don't like it. Other than 6 moons there's a dedicated following for class D amplifiers, some are on a budget and others can afford the very best amps. I'm not happy with approximately 300 WPC going into my Revels and the THD that's introduced as I crank up the volume, I want the same volume when I turn it half way up so there's very little distortion going into them wink.gif

I bought Sunfires because I wanted tons of power without owning a radianting anvil.
I understand your thinking and I feel the same way.

But the choice is not as simple as we would like. It is not just a matter of power ratings.
There are power ratings at 1KZ and power ratings 20hz to 20KHZ.
Some also feel that wide bandwidth is important. I am not so sure about that.

Outlaw and ATI make amps with excellent performance rated full band.
They rate them all channels driven as well.
With the ATI 3000 / Outlaw 7900 you have an amp that perform well above its specification.
These amps use lots of output devices so they do not drive them as hard.
They do not run very hot at all.

BTW, ICE like to talk about soft clipping.
That means no more bass at some level.
My friend had a Pioneer ICE receiver rated at 140 watts.
That amp should be within 1 DB of a 200 watt A/B amp.
Since the Elite receiver used a reference scale he was pushing it to -10 and it just wasn't giving any more of anything.
Compressions is not a good thing and it was evident even earlier.
He replaced it with a BDP105 driving two Outaw M2200 A/B/G monoblocks and at about 60 % volume you at at the limits of his 3-wat B&W's.
The sound is much more dynamic, detailed and clean. No more compression.

I am not saying Class D amps are not good or even the future.
Who knows?
I am saying that you have to be careful when they are not rated in the same stringent way.
As in LCD and Plasma, each technology has its benefits and they have there deficiencies which are very different.
Sort of like IMD is a class A/B problem but not a class A problem.
We know what Class-D is doing better, there may not be standardized measurements for what Class-D does worse because the problems do not occur in conventional amps.

I have done an in home trial comparing older models: Sunfire Cinema Grand, Outlaw 750, and D-Sonic 400 WPC ICE.
Even at that time, I was struck by the performance of the Outlaw and under-whelmed by the bass output/control of the D-Sonic.
There was also something I did not like about the sound of the ICE amp that I cannot put my finger on.

Recently, I sold my Sunfire 7400 and replaced it with an Outlaw 7500 which I also directly compared in my home.
Even though, the Sunfire has twice the rated power 400 WPC versus 200, the Outlaws sound cleaner at all volume levels and at very high volumes of over 100 DB, it presents a better defined sound and less compression.
I attribute that to linearity and lower distortion.

Were I getting close the to $3000 mark for an amp, I would go with an ATI or Outlaw 300WPC amp.
The folks at Outlaw said they have yet to find a speaker that can clip that amp and I am inclinded to agree with them.

In the end it comes down to your own preferences.
Some folks like linearity so much they prefer class-A or high-biased class-A. Nothing wrong with that.

- Rich

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post #3908 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I have to add to this. How many people on this very thread do you think are using after market power cords, or silver interconnects or some other high end cable/cord because they think it sounds better or they'd feel inadequate without them? My guess is quite a few. Do I believe there's any audible difference unless you hear as well as a dog? Hell no.

I made a mistake by mentioning power cords. Definitely a religious argument.
Look at the trouble I go in with Power Conditioners. tongue.gif

When I find something that I can easily hear and demonstrate to others as well, I post it here for the benefit of others.
If it is not a problem in their system, great.
But some may try things like changing settings or directly connecting their amp to the wall and see a benefit.
There is not cost to these experiments and their may actually be a savings.

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post #3909 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 06:38 AM
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This is copied from a different thread in case it looks familiar. I do believe the future will be a higher efficiency design but I don't believe it has arrived quite yet, at least not for the masses. Class D or switching amps do a lot of things right and would not hesitate trying some for surrounds and maybe center but not mains.
The December issue of Stereophile reviewed a $50,000 and a $6,000 set of monoblocks by highly regarded companies - they know how to do sound. Now so many people say Stereophile and others just bow to the advertisers and give glowing reviews but they failed to recommend either. I also see where people jump on the class D bandwagon but after a while of living with it many switch back to class A/ B. I also believe this won't show in a blind ABX audition, you need to live with it. However, I will admit all my knowledge on this is second hand.
Perhaps NAD or Devialet or someone else will prove me wrong, I would like less heat in my media room.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #3910 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I bought Sunfires because I wanted tons of power without owning a radianting anvil.
I understand your thinking and I feel the same way.

But the choice is not as simple as we would like. It is not just a matter of power ratings.
There are power ratings at 1KZ and power ratings 20hz to 20KHZ.
Some also feel that wide bandwidth is important. I am not so sure about that.

Outlaw and ATI make amps with excellent performance rated full band.
They rate them all channels driven as well.
With the ATI 3000 / Outlaw 7900 you have an amp that perform well above its specification.
These amps use lots of output devices so they do not drive them as hard.
They do not run very hot at all.

BTW, ICE like to talk about soft clipping.
That means no more bass at some level.
My friend had a Pioneer ICE receiver rated at 140 watts.
That amp should be within 1 DB of a 200 watt A/B amp.
Since the Elite receiver used a reference scale he was pushing it to -10 and it just wasn't giving any more of anything.
Compressions is not a good thing and it was evident even earlier.
He replaced it with a BDP105 driving two Outaw M2200 A/B/G monoblocks and at about 60 % volume you at at the limits of his 3-wat B&W's.
The sound is much more dynamic, detailed and clean. No more compression.

I am not saying Class D amps are not good or even the future.
Who knows?
I am saying that you have to be careful when they are not rated in the same stringent way.
As in LCD and Plasma, each technology has its benefits and they have there deficiencies which are very different.
Sort of like IMD is a class A/B problem but not a class A problem.
We know what Class-D is doing better, there may not be standardized measurements for what Class-D does worse because the problems do not occur in conventional amps.

I have done an in home trial comparing older models: Sunfire Cinema Grand, Outlaw 750, and D-Sonic 400 WPC ICE.
Even at that time, I was struck by the performance of the Outlaw and under-whelmed by the bass output/control of the D-Sonic.
There was also something I did not like about the sound of the ICE amp that I cannot put my finger on.

Recently, I sold my Sunfire 7400 and replaced it with an Outlaw 7500 which I also directly compared in my home.
Even though, the Sunfire has twice the rated power 400 WPC versus 200, the Outlaws sound cleaner at all volume levels and at very high volumes of over 100 DB, it presents a better defined sound and less compression.
I attribute that to linearity and lower distortion.

Were I getting close the to $3000 mark for an amp, I would go with an ATI or Outlaw 300WPC amp.
The folks at Outlaw said they have yet to find a speaker that can clip that amp and I am inclinded to agree with them.

In the end it comes down to your own preferences.
Some folks like linearity so much they prefer class-A or high-biased class-A. Nothing wrong with that.

- Rich



What are the Outlaws class A Rich? Their monos are 200 WPC into 8 ohms. Very reasonable at $350, but I'll admit that low price scares me. I really would like to hear one, I'm just afraid it wouldn't have enough power for my taste. I'm at the 200 WPC mark now and it's not enough to drive my Revels well IMO.
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post #3911 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

This is copied from a different thread in case it looks familiar. I do believe the future will be a higher efficiency design but I don't believe it has arrived quite yet, at least not for the masses. Class D or switching amps do a lot of things right and would not hesitate trying some for surrounds and maybe center but not mains.
The December issue of Stereophile reviewed a $50,000 and a $6,000 set of monoblocks by highly regarded companies - they know how to do sound. Now so many people say Stereophile and others just bow to the advertisers and give glowing reviews but they failed to recommend either. I also see where people jump on the class D bandwagon but after a while of living with it many switch back to class A/ B. I also believe this won't show in a blind ABX audition, you need to live with it. However, I will admit all my knowledge on this is second hand.
Perhaps NAD or Devialet or someone else will prove me wrong, I would like less heat in my media room.



I'm not one to switch gear very much, when I upgrade I want it to be for a few years at least. I'm probably going to try class D for my mains. If I make a mistake it's on me, but I'd prefer not too. One of my problems is I'm already around 300 WPC and I'm not happy with the sound, or volume levels or the distortion added to achieve the levels I like. I'm afraid if I upgrade to another brand of amp with the same or lower power I still won't be happy. Who's making a class A or A/B amp that puts out 500 or 600 WPC that I wouldn't have to spend an arm and a leg on?
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post #3912 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

This is copied from a different thread in case it looks familiar. I do believe the future will be a higher efficiency design but I don't believe it has arrived quite yet, at least not for the masses. Class D or switching amps do a lot of things right and would not hesitate trying some for surrounds and maybe center but not mains.
The December issue of Stereophile reviewed a $50,000 and a $6,000 set of monoblocks by highly regarded companies - they know how to do sound. Now so many people say Stereophile and others just bow to the advertisers and give glowing reviews but they failed to recommend either. I also see where people jump on the class D bandwagon but after a while of living with it many switch back to class A/ B. I also believe this won't show in a blind ABX audition, you need to live with it. However, I will admit all my knowledge on this is second hand.
Perhaps NAD or Devialet or someone else will prove me wrong, I would like less heat in my media room.

Jim,

In all my years of writing CE reviews (over 9 now), there was only one case where a manufacturer put pressure on me (and my editor) to change a negative review. My editor steadfastly refused and we ran the negative review anyway. There is a wall between advertising and editorial in the publications I've written for and I bet Kal will confirm the same is at Stereophile.

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post #3913 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

What are the Outlaws class A Rich? Their monos are 200 WPC into 8 ohms. Very reasonable at $350, but I'll admit that low price scares me. I really would like to hear one, I'm just afraid it wouldn't have enough power for my taste. I'm at the 200 WPC mark now and it's not enough to drive my Revels well IMO.

Outlaws are fully balcance class A//B.
I have played Lady Gaga (which I hate but bought for testing purpsoses) at 103 DB average with no obvious signs of clipping with the 7500 driving my Salons.

Like I said, if you want to spend around $3500, then the Outlaw 7900 is your huckleberry smile.gif
If you want look at huge power for you buck, the the $2000 XPR-4 400 WPC should be considered and perhaps.
If you are willing to pay for return shipping, the you could try both in your home with your Revels.
For a $200 you can find your perfect amp !

If you want to spend less, the best deal would be a Outlaw 7700 and bi-amp you Revels.
It has ineppendant amps and huge power supply. That means you could clip the woofer amp and the upper frequency amp is not affected.
No square waves send to your tweeters, ever. The highs just do not user that kind of power.
Power is a demand thing and they will not demand it unless you are wearing ear protectors.
Then, your lights will be dimming and the cat will be dead smile.gif

I think if Outlaws cost twice as much, people would have more respect for them.

Let's not forget that 200 to 400 watts is only 3DB.
Its what is happening in the transients and the type of distortion introduced that matters at high volume levels much more that the watts rating.
Are the fast transients delievered or soft clipped ?
IMO, thatis why a 140 WPC ICE amp cannot even approach the performance of the M2200 A/B/G in driving my friends B&W's.
This is my experience anyway.

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post #3914 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I'm not one to switch gear very much, when I upgrade I want it to be for a few years at least. I'm probably going to try class D for my mains. If I make a mistake it's on me, but I'd prefer not too. One of my problems is I'm already around 300 WPC and I'm not happy with the sound, or volume levels or the distortion added to achieve the levels I like. I'm afraid if I upgrade to another brand of amp with the same or lower power I still won't be happy. Who's making a class A or A/B amp that puts out 500 or 600 WPC that I wouldn't have to spend an arm and a leg on?

It costs shipping only to try either the XPR-5 @ $2K or the Outlaw 7900 B-Stock @ $3K.
If you bi-amp, you will Never clip your tweeters.
I do not think you will need to bi-amp smile.gif

I wish you the best with whatever you choose.

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post #3915 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Outlaws are fully balcance class A//B.
I have played Lady Gaga (which I hate but bought for testing purpsoses) at 103 DB average with no obvious signs of clipping with the 7500 driving my Salons.

Like I said, if you want to spend around $3500, then the Outlaw 7900 is your huckleberry smile.gif
If you want look at huge power for you buck, the the $2000 XPR-4 400 WPC should be considered and perhaps.
If you are willing to pay for return shipping, the you could try both in your home with your Revels.
For a $200 you can find your perfect amp !

If you want to spend less, the best deal would be a Outlaw 7700 and bi-amp you Revels.
It has ineppendant amps and huge power supply. That means you could clip the woofer amp and the upper frequency amp is not affected.
No square waves send to your tweeters, ever. The highs just do not user that kind of power.
Power is a demand thing and they will not demand it unless you are wearing ear protectors.
Then, your lights will be dimming and the cat will be dead smile.gif

I think if Outlaws cost twice as much, people would have more respect for them.

Let's not forget that 200 to 400 watts is only 3DB.
Its what is happening in the transients and the type of distortion introduced that matters at high volume levels much more that the watts rating.
Are the fast transients delievered or soft clipped ?
IMO, thatis why a 140 WPC ICE amp cannot even approach the performance of the M2200 A/B/G in driving my friends B&W's.
This is my experience anyway.

- Rich



Your a better man than me I couldn't take lady Gaga at 1/13th of one DB lol. But a lot of the newer music does sound good through my setup also. Once in awhile I'll let my son stream some of his rap stuff from his phone, it sounds great I just hate it. So I'm going to some more research and hard thinking. I do believe class D will prove itself, maybe just not yet. Whatever my decision I just want it to be the correct one, I hate when I screw up. I think the Outlaws are getting a pretty big following. I just wish they offered some more power options.
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Your a better man than me I couldn't take lady Gaga at 1/13th of one DB lol. But a lot of the newer music does sound good through my setup also. Once in awhile I'll let my son stream some of his rap stuff from his phone, it sounds great I just hate it. So I'm going to some more research and hard thinking. I do believe class D will prove itself, maybe just not yet. Whatever my decision I just want it to be the correct one, I hate when I screw up. I think the Outlaws are getting a pretty big following. I just wish they offered some more power options.

Here the Home Theater Reveiw of the Outaw 7900 Monster.

Unfortunately, the reviewer decided to review this amp:


with these speakers:


Seriously tongue.gif

If you get the 7900, get you son and a couple of friends to move the 145 lb beast.

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post #3917 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Here the Home Theater Reveiw of the Outaw 7900 Monster.

Unfortunately, the reviewer decided to review this amp:


with these speakers:


Seriously tongue.gif

If you get the 7900, get you son and a couple of friends to move the 145 lb beast.

- Rich



That was the wrong choice of speakers for a serious review. 145 lbs. yikes! Very nice review of it. Have you ever tied the current source vs the voltage source on your Sunfire with the 8801 feeding it? If so what were your thoughts?
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For that i would rather consider the new Emotiva XPR-2 at 2x 600 Watt into 8 Ohm or 1000 Watt into 4 Ohm both channel driven for half the price and (probably) the same SQ. More value for your money and "just" 100 lbs to move.
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That was the wrong choice of speakers for a serious review. 145 lbs. yikes! Very nice review of it. Have you ever tied the current source vs the voltage source on your Sunfire with the 8801 feeding it? If so what were your thoughts?

I tried it but I though it was just rolling off the high-end.
My speakers have a nice upper end so that was not the right choice.
The outlaw is cleaner so I actually turned up my tweeters .5 DB and I like the sound even better.

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post #3920 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 09:09 AM
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For that i would rather consider the new Emotiva XPR-2 at 2x 600 Watt into 8 Ohm or 1000 Watt into 4 Ohm both channel driven for half the price and (probably) the same SQ. More value for your money and "just" 100 lbs to move.

Yep, another good choice if you want maximum power, they have it.

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post #3921 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 09:10 AM
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current source vs voltage source? Am I missing something here?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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current source vs voltage source? Am I missing something here?

Yes, I believe the difference was a one ohm resistor.
I felt that was more a gimmick feature like Sonic Holography that no one else bothered to replicate.

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post #3923 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 09:22 AM
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I tried it but I though it was just rolling off the high-end.
My speakers have a nice upper end so that was not the right choice.
The outlaw is cleaner so I actually turned up my tweeters .5 DB and I like the sound even better.

- Rich



I didn't try the current side but I might later, just to see. Your liking that Outlaw I'm glad your happy with it smile.gif
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I didn't try the current side but I might later, just to see. Your liking that Outlaw I'm glad your happy with it smile.gif

I think it was put in there to tame speakers if you think they are too bright.
Most reviewers went back to the Voltage Source.

Yes, I love my Outlaw and I have come to love my AV8801 too.
It's like a good marriage smile.gif

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post #3925 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 09:43 AM
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Has anyone else tryed configuring the triggers to selectively turn on a device based on which input is on? It is not working on mine. I can't select just one input to turn the trigger on - it is always on. Even if I turn off all the device triggers in setup, I'm still getting 12 volts out of the trigger wire. I called Marantz tech support today and was told with all trigger inputs turned off there should be no currrent at the trigger, and if I was still getting current my AV8801 is defective. However, they also said if I exchanged it for another one, the new one might not work correctly either. Tech support does not yet have a unit of their own to test with - they're supposed to be getting one, but don't have it yet.

It would be appreciated if someone could try this out on their unit. Really don't want to go to the work of packing this up, re-setting a new one up, and discovering that the triggers on the new one still don't work right. I reset the microprocessor - no change.

A couple of tips I can share. If you want the ability to listen\switch to any analog audio source (including network, internet radio, HD radio) while continuing to watch your video source: You can just run RCA cables from a Zone output to the analog input for the HDMI video source your using. Tech support warned me to turn the analog input down to minimum before doing this, but I actually had to turn up both the Zone output and analog input levels to get a decent volume. The InputMode remote command can be used to switch between HDMI and analog sound. Works great!

For the harmony remote users: As discussed earlier, the toggle on/off remote code in the database is not the correct code. In my case, it was executing the Zone 2 On/Off toggle command. I contacted Logitech Support and pointed it out to them. They set up a support ticket and claimed they would follow-up on it. The commands they have in their database for the AV8801 are pretty limited. I added the Marantz AV7005 as another device and found the InputMode command, and a number of other useful commands.

I am having the same issue. When I first set up the unit with the triggers it worked fine for a couple days. Now the triggers are always on even when the unit is turned off. Did you find a solution for this???
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If one of the other zones is still on, the trigger will stay on. Could this be it possibly?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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YUP!! that was it. Thanks. Just got the unit last week and trying to familiarize myself with it. I don't know how the other zones got turned on though.
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post #3928 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 10:41 AM
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Haha, I don't know how to turn mine on, I have never tried it using the remote, always just used the iphone app to do it, since I am in another room when I need the other zones anyways.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #3929 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I think it was put in there to tame speakers if you think they are too bright.
Most reviewers went back to the Voltage Source.

Yes, I love my Outlaw and I have come to love my AV8801 too.
It's like a good marriage smile.gif

- Rich



I didn't try switching yet, I'm fighting an ear infection an can't turn up the volume too loud. Or maybe that's why it's infected wink.gif others that have heard my setup think it sounded a little too bright, my thoughts are they were used to the treble from my PSB's and the Revels are a total different sound. Marriage? I didn't get any invitation smile.gif I would love to gets listen to the Outlaw sound, it's just not possible. Unless I buy one.
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post #3930 of 11873 Old 03-14-2013, 11:43 AM
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current source vs voltage source? Am I missing something here?



There is a current and a voltage side for the front speakers on the Sunfire's or at least mine and others I've seen. The current side is supposed to sound a bit warmer like a tube amp. Like Rich I always brushed it off as a gimmick and since I've had it (7 years) never tried the current side.
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