Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 145 - AVS Forum
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post #4321 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

I am thinking about doing the 2 sub home theater with the av8801.

currently have an old paradigm servo 15A... i am having a hard time finding a second one.

there is a older velodyne hgs 15, for sale around here....

how do you think they would match up?

thanks,
Bill

Bill,

I have the same Paradigm sub along with a Seaton Sound Submersive with the AV8801. I have had the two subs for some time. Previous to the AV8801 I had been using a Velodyne SMS-1 on the Paradigm which helped and did some adjustments from XTZ measuring with Submersive, but results are far, far superior with the Audyssey XT32 on the AV8801. I am very pleased with the two subs integration. I could somewhat localize the Submersive previously, but due to room and furniture conditions, was limited in location. I no longer can detect subwoofer locations and speaker presentation is very balanced. At first the bass seemed "less" but really it has subtracted the boom and overhang. You can play with Bass in tone and individual subwoofer settings after calibration, but I have found I prefer to leave as calibrated.

Take your time in mic positioning when calibrating--I used an old Manon 800 camera tripod which has been very helpful for me. Lastly, suggest you switch the Paradigm to Always On instead of Auto On. I find it important not only for Audyssey calibration but also in music listening in multichannel. It may be somewhat influenced by my crossover settings, but for music (not 5.1 or LFE encoded) I often found the Paradigm sub did not trigger on. My mains are set full range--Audyssey set them as Large as well as Sides and Wides. Sides and Wides are also Paradigms--Active 40's, and I manually set them to Small at 60 Hz crossover. The mains I left as Large, manufacturer specs are +/- 2.5 db at 20 Hz. My center and rears are Small along with Heights, which are set by Audyssey at 200 Hz. I would have thought these higher roll-off crossovers would trigger on the Paradigm, but not always. Possibly the routed signals are higher frequency or not sufficient intensity. In any case, I now leave this sub Always On.

Will
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post #4322 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Is there anyone here that can speak of the upgrade co AV8801 mod? The cost sure is right. Is it worth transferring warranty?

I became mildly interested in this company's work on the trail to purchase my AV 8801. You might want to check some of the older threads on this site that will provide some good information. Evidently, there was quite a brouhaha with the owner and some of the posters when they made negative comments about his methods and products. If I'm not mistaken, the owner has been permanently banned from posting on the AVS site. So, that in itself speaks volumes in my book. I think the thing that bothers me most, is that the Upgrade Company does not tell you what they are upgrading and how they are doing it. Everything seems so clandestine compared to other upgrade sites. Plus, who wants to give up the D & M warranty for an untested product that may or may not be any better than what we get from the factory? For me to buy an upgraded product, I would have to hear overwhelmingly positive comments from tons of people (including professional reviewers) to convince me of the merits provided. Not happening for me; however your mileage may vary, so, as always, may the buyer beware or at least informed as to the risks!
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post #4323 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I trust a speaker review that says... For optimal performance you gotta fill it with 60 lbs. of lead shot. Well yeah ya gotta bi amp them to break through the toxins tongue.gif

FYI, speakers clip due to distortion. If my speakers are clipping I need to rethink my amplifier situation or turn the big knob on the right down. Seriously though post your results or PM me with them, if there is something to learn I'm open to it, thanks smile.gif

You can fill the cavity with sand instead of lead. The amount weight will determine the bass resonant frequency of the enclosure and help get rid of nasty peaks or valleys that specific to the geometry our listening rooms. It has a similar bass tuning effect as in bass-trap...

My speakers are fill with 25 pound of 8 shot lead in order to deal with 71Hz suck-out in my room. The lead is sealed by the threaded cap, so I'm not exposed to it.

I don't know of many amplifiers that will not clip when saturated, especially at 2.3 Ohms. Even if the lower/bass section clips, it will have absolutely no effect on my mids and highs because the mids/highs are routed through the completely separate amp and a high pass filter located in the upper module of the VR-4Jr.

- Alex
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post #4324 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

You can fill the cavity with sand instead of lead. The amount weight will determine the bass resonant frequency of the enclosure and help get rid of nasty peaks or valleys that specific to the geometry our listening rooms. It has a similar bass tuning effect as in bass-trap...

My speakers are fill with 25 pound of 8 shot lead in order to deal with 71Hz suck-out in my room. The lead is sealed by the threaded cap, so I'm not exposed to it.

I don't know of many amplifiers that will not clip when saturated, especially at 2.3 Ohms. Even if the lower/bass section clips, it will have absolutely no effect on my mids and highs because the mids/highs are routed through the completely separate amp and a high pass filter located in the upper module of the VR-4Jr.



I hear ya. I almost bought a pair of the jr's a few months ago on audiogon. I read that the manafacturer recommends filling them with shot.
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post #4325 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 11:37 AM
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post #4326 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 11:44 AM
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Will...

thank you for your reply.... i might have to give it a chance with the velodyne. maybe i can get it for a great price and if it doesn't sound right i would not lose too much money. they are both servo based speakers and 15"and about the same age and about the same price range when new and if audyssey corrects them further it might work great.

Bill
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post #4327 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

I am thinking about doing the 2 sub home theater with the av8801.

currently have an old paradigm servo 15A... i am having a hard time finding a second one.

there is a older velodyne hgs 15, for sale around here....

how do you think they would match up?

thanks,
Bill

I have the same setup as you mostly with the same sub, I have been looking at the seaton subs, nothing but glowing reviews about them, i also like the fact that they are located not to far from were i live, I would think that the Marantz would help the 2 subs blend very nice....
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post #4328 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Will Gibbons View Post

Bill,

I have the same Paradigm sub along with a Seaton Sound Submersive with the AV8801. I have had the two subs for some time. Previous to the AV8801 I had been using a Velodyne SMS-1 on the Paradigm which helped and did some adjustments from XTZ measuring with Submersive, but results are far, far superior with the Audyssey XT32 on the AV8801. I am very pleased with the two subs integration. I could somewhat localize the Submersive previously, but due to room and furniture conditions, was limited in location. I no longer can detect subwoofer locations and speaker presentation is very balanced. At first the bass seemed "less" but really it has subtracted the boom and overhang. You can play with Bass in tone and individual subwoofer settings after calibration, but I have found I prefer to leave as calibrated.

Take your time in mic positioning when calibrating--I used an old Manon 800 camera tripod which has been very helpful for me. Lastly, suggest you switch the Paradigm to Always On instead of Auto On. I find it important not only for Audyssey calibration but also in music listening in multichannel. It may be somewhat influenced by my crossover settings, but for music (not 5.1 or LFE encoded) I often found the Paradigm sub did not trigger on. My mains are set full range--Audyssey set them as Large as well as Sides and Wides. Sides and Wides are also Paradigms--Active 40's, and I manually set them to Small at 60 Hz crossover. The mains I left as Large, manufacturer specs are +/- 2.5 db at 20 Hz. My center and rears are Small along with Heights, which are set by Audyssey at 200 Hz. I would have thought these higher roll-off crossovers would trigger on the Paradigm, but not always. Possibly the routed signals are higher frequency or not sufficient intensity. In any case, I now leave this sub Always On.

Will
Will, Which Seaton do you have the HP or the F2 i believe is what they call it?
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post #4329 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 12:35 PM
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Last night i turned on my Marantz to watch a movie and had a blank screen, so i thought maybe it was my blu ray player so i switched inputs and still had no screen,I had watched something 2 hrs prior so i know that i had not made any changes.By the way i have not done the latest upgrade as of yet,
eventually i had to unplug the Marantz and reboot and then everything was up and running again,strange but i'm glad everything seems to be fine for now, i'm a little scared to do the update today because tonight is out night to watch all of are shows with the wife eek.gif better play it safe and shoot for Monday during the day.
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post #4330 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I hear ya. I almost bought a pair of the jr's a few months ago on audiogon. I read that the manafacturer recommends filling them with shot.

The Jr's sound very good without the shots, however I was able tamed modal effect with them adding the bass-traps.. At one point, I was thinking of moving to up VR-44 active in order to match LCR-4 and realized that my VR-4Jr are really special with 2-channel music smile.gif

- Alex
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post #4331 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

Will, Which Seaton do you have the HP or the F2 i believe is what they call it?

I have the HP. It is the original textured black. Mark has added some very attractive cabinet options and from the photos, I find the F2 a great looking sub. My HP is positioned on the back wall, approximately 1/4 of the distance from far left wall. It also serves as stand for Active ADP, also in black, angled to provide reflection as one of rears. The other ADP is on one of the tall stands Paradigm offered so height is nearly the same. The Paradigm is center front and is an effective stand for mini-panel speaker that matches my mains.

For moving Submersive over carpet, I suggest some inexpensive furniture glides to find position you want. Size and weight are greater than the Paradigm and far more "grunt" to move without glides. Once I was in location, easy to remove the glides from each footer.

I highly recommend the Submersive.

Will
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post #4332 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

Last night i turned on my Marantz to watch a movie and had a blank screen, so i thought maybe it was my blu ray player so i switched inputs and still had no screen,I had watched something 2 hrs prior so i know that i had not made any changes.By the way i have not done the latest upgrade as of yet,
eventually i had to unplug the Marantz and reboot and then everything was up and running again,strange but i'm glad everything seems to be fine for now...

I've experienced something similar, and found out, in my case, it was because of the Logitech Harmony One used to power off my system. After unplugged the AV8801 and controlled everything with their own remotes, they were all working normally. I then did the update, it took over an hour (~75-80 min.) to complete. Since I have to use my system for the whole family in the week end, I plan on testing again with the Harmony One next week to see if the update has any effect on that or not.
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post #4333 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 01:33 PM
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Last week my AV8801 suddenly lost it's Audyssey settings! Very strange. It was an Audyssey pro calibration for which I had to pay a professional. Luckily I had made a backup with th SAVE function, so now with the LOAD function I could restore everything.
But I think it strange that something like Audyssey is suddenly gone, without me changing anything! Anyone else experienced this?

I did the update on Thursday night, took me about 100 minutes (from Europe). I still don't know what is fixed or upgraded now... Any ideas?
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post #4334 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

The Jr's sound very good without the shots, however I was able tamed modal effect with them adding the bass-traps.. At one point, I was thinking of moving to up VR-44 active in order to match LCR-4 and realized that my VR-4Jr are really special with 2-channel music smile.gif



I'm glad your happy with them. Very unique looking speaker, and the reviews are really good.
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post #4335 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 01:40 PM
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The 8801 is a computer and needs to be rebooted occasionally. I think if people would reboot theirs routinely they would act a lot better and be more responsive. I doubt you'll find that in the book, but it only stands to reason that you treat a computer like a computer. We do this to our PC's, phones, tablets. Try it with the Marantz, it works smile.gif
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post #4336 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 01:55 PM
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Last week my AV8801 suddenly lost it's Audyssey settings! Very strange. It was an Audyssey pro calibration for which I had to pay a professional. Luckily I had made a backup with th SAVE function, so now with the LOAD function I could restore everything.
But I think it strange that something like Audyssey is suddenly gone, without me changing anything! Anyone else experienced this?

I did the update on Thursday night, took me about 100 minutes (from Europe). I still don't know what is fixed or upgraded now... Any ideas?

This has occurred to a few 4520CI owners as well after a brief power outage or after doing a firmware update and is apparently being looked into by D&M engineers. Also although not sure about Marantz units, Denon Europe posts the changelog information as well as provides USB updates on their website, otherwise I just posted the firmware changelog in this thread yesterday as well as having it posted in post #1 of this thread.

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post #4337 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KeesN View Post

Last week my AV8801 suddenly lost it's Audyssey settings! Very strange. It was an Audyssey pro calibration for which I had to pay a professional. Luckily I had made a backup with th SAVE function, so now with the LOAD function I could restore everything.
But I think it strange that something like Audyssey is suddenly gone, without me changing anything! Anyone else experienced this?

I did the update on Thursday night, took me about 100 minutes (from Europe). I still don't know what is fixed or upgraded now... Any ideas?

 

I am one of the 4520 owners JD was referring to.  I use the Pro kit for calibration, and have experienced the loss of configuration/calibration data on a number of occasions.  As JD said, my settings have been lost as a result of a power glitch, a firmware upgrade, and most recently after a soft reset.

 

As far as I know, there isn't anything different about how Audyssey Pro saves settings after a calibration.  At the end of the calibration, a Pro user is prompted to "Save settings to the AVR".  When this is selected, there are a series of messages on the screen stating that the filters for each speaker in succession are being transferred from the laptop to the AVR.  At the end of this transfer, there is a message "Saving filters to flash", which presumably is the same step as at the end of a conventional calibration.

 

Why the AVR would lose these settings in certain situations is a mystery to me.  I am concerned that there may be an issue with my unit's flash memory, which is why I opened a case with D&M Support.  The issue has been escalated to engineering, and I am waiting for a response.  I'll post my findings in the 4520 thread, and here as well.

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post #4338 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

With HDMI there is never any guarantee that there will not be an audio or video related issue as it depends on all components in the HDMI chain. At the very least ensure the firmware on both devices is up to date and looking at the LG website, looks like there was a firmware release for your TV on Friday 3/22. Also note that HDMI(ARC) can generally only pass PCM 2.0 so check the LG Owner's manual to confirm the capability of your TV. You may also want to try making an optical cable connection from the Oppo to the AVP as the higher bitrate DD/DTS audio on BDs will be very comparable (and in the majority of cases indistinguishable) from the HD audio tracks over HDMI.

Thanks for the info.

Both my Oppo players (93 & 103) are up to date on the firmware, as is the TV. And you are correct that the TV only passes 2.0 sound (not sure about ARC). I tried the optical out on the TV, and my Denon AVP shows the incoming signal as 2 channel. Some have said that on other LG Cinema3D TV's there is a way to allow it to pass 5.1 via optical, so maybe there's a way to enable that on this TV as well. I need to contact LG and find out. It's frustrating to say the least, and I hope LG tech support can help me find a way to correct this issue, as I want to start enjoying 3D movies with full (in sync) multichannel audio.
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post #4339 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post

Seth, I have my AV8001 in our family room connected to a LG 55LM9600. Not quite your setup, but I've never had lip sync issues. Don't run too many 3D movies on that setup (mostly in our HT which has my AVP/POA setup), but have an older Oppo 93 connected to it. What would you like me to test? SJ

Hey there!smile.gif

Yes, if you could test out a few 3D Blu-ray's that would be great! The two I played were Life of Pi, and Journey to the Center of the Earth.

Thanks buddy.wink.gif
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post #4340 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 04:48 PM
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...
the TV only passes 2.0 sound (not sure about ARC). I tried the optical out on the TV, and my Denon AVP shows the incoming signal as 2 channel. Some have said that on other LG Cinema3D TV's there is a way to allow it to pass 5.1 via optical, so maybe there's a way to enable that on this TV as well. I need to contact LG and find out. ....

Sorry - but I doubt LG is going to be able to help. Welcome to yet-another-DRM issue. It's a copy protection feature that all TVs only allow 2-channels across the fiber output - EXCEPT for what they think is "original" programming. If your input to the TV is from an HDMI cable, you will never get multi-channel from the TV's fiber output. But - if you are watching an over-the-air HD broadcast (you know, a "real television" show broadcast), then your optical-out from the TV will have a 5.1 signal. The area that sometimes has some wiggle-room is if your TV lets you stream shows across your network. I think some TVs sometimes allow 5.1 output for streamed shows. Can't promise anything though.

Are the multi-channel analog (RCA) inputs open on your Denon AVP? You could try running the 5.1/7.1 RCA pre-outs from your Oppo 103 to your Denon. That would be a non-HDMI connection to carry the sound to your AVP but it would also allow for lossless, multi-channel audio playback. And this way the audio processing is done within the Oppo - so there's no delay for the Denon to process the audio.
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post #4341 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Thanks for the info.

Both my Oppo players (93 & 103) are up to date on the firmware, as is the TV. And you are correct that the TV only passes 2.0 sound (not sure about ARC). I tried the optical out on the TV, and my Denon AVP shows the incoming signal as 2 channel. Some have said that on other LG Cinema3D TV's there is a way to allow it to pass 5.1 via optical, so maybe there's a way to enable that on this TV as well. I need to contact LG and find out. It's frustrating to say the least, and I hope LG tech support can help me find a way to correct this issue, as I want to start enjoying 3D movies with full (in sync) multichannel audio.

Have you tried setting the Oppo to PCM vice bitstream for the HDMI 2 to the AVP?

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post #4342 of 12353 Old 03-24-2013, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Have you tried setting the Oppo to PCM vice bitstream for the HDMI 2 to the AVP?

I am a bit lost on the configuration in question.
However, if you are sending HDM-1 to your display and HDMI-2 to your AVR, then make sure the
Oppo Video Setup | Dual HDMI Output in the Oppo is set to Split AV. This will assure that all formats supported by the AVR are sent via HDMI. If set the Dual Display, only format supported by both the AVR and TV are sent.

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post #4343 of 12353 Old 03-25-2013, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I am one of the 4520 owners JD was referring to.  I use the Pro kit for calibration, and have experienced the loss of configuration/calibration data on a number of occasions.  As JD said, my settings have been lost as a result of a power glitch, a firmware upgrade, and most recently after a soft reset.

As far as I know, there isn't anything different about how Audyssey Pro saves settings after a calibration.  At the end of the calibration, a Pro user is prompted to "Save settings to the AVR".  When this is selected, there are a series of messages on the screen stating that the filters for each speaker in succession are being transferred from the laptop to the AVR.  At the end of this transfer, there is a message "Saving filters to flash", which presumably is the same step as at the end of a conventional calibration.

Why the AVR would lose these settings in certain situations is a mystery to me.  I am concerned that there may be an issue with my unit's flash memory, which is why I opened a case with D&M Support.  The issue has been escalated to engineering, and I am waiting for a response.  I'll post my findings in the 4520 thread, and here as well.

thanks for your respons. Please keep me updated!

Am I correct in thinking that the pro calibration data is saved in the Config.dat when I do a SAVE on the 8801?
or is this data lost and should the pro-consultant get back in ?
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post #4344 of 12353 Old 03-25-2013, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill222 View Post

Sorry - but I doubt LG is going to be able to help. Welcome to yet-another-DRM issue. It's a copy protection feature that all TVs only allow 2-channels across the fiber output - EXCEPT for what they think is "original" programming. If your input to the TV is from an HDMI cable, you will never get multi-channel from the TV's fiber output. But - if you are watching an over-the-air HD broadcast (you know, a "real television" show broadcast), then your optical-out from the TV will have a 5.1 signal. The area that sometimes has some wiggle-room is if your TV lets you stream shows across your network. I think some TVs sometimes allow 5.1 output for streamed shows. Can't promise anything though.

Are the multi-channel analog (RCA) inputs open on your Denon AVP? You could try running the 5.1/7.1 RCA pre-outs from your Oppo 103 to your Denon. That would be a non-HDMI connection to carry the sound to your AVP but it would also allow for lossless, multi-channel audio playback. And this way the audio processing is done within the Oppo - so there's no delay for the Denon to process the audio.

Yeah, you're probably right that LG may not be able to help me. But, hey, since this is their "Elite" flagship 4K model, hopefully they will at least try to help find a solution. I will also contact Oppo and Denon and see what they say. Someone at one of these companies has to have someone there who might know.

It's a bummer that only 2 channel audio is allowed to pass from the TV via optical from sources like Blu-ray or satellite.frown.gif

No, I haven't tried using the analog outs on my Oppo. I would much rather use the pre/pro's internal decoding versus having to use the players. I mean that's why I bought the Denon AVP in the first place. If there is some way to use HDMI and get a synced picture/sound, that's what I'll use.
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post #4345 of 12353 Old 03-25-2013, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Have you tried setting the Oppo to PCM vice bitstream for the HDMI 2 to the AVP?

No, I haven't tried that. Will be worth trying.smile.gif
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post #4346 of 12353 Old 03-25-2013, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I am a bit lost on the configuration in question.
However, if you are sending HDM-1 to your display and HDMI-2 to your AVR, then make sure the
Oppo Video Setup | Dual HDMI Output in the Oppo is set to Split AV. This will assure that all formats supported by the AVR are sent via HDMI. If set the Dual Display, only format supported by both the AVR and TV are sent.

- Rich

Good to know, thanks!wink.gif
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post #4347 of 12353 Old 03-25-2013, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie

Have you tried setting the Oppo to PCM vice bitstream for the HDMI 2 to the AVP?

No, I haven't tried that. Will be worth trying.smile.gif

I'm hoping this works. In many ways it's better than my RCA-analog suggestion. Sending the signal over the HDMI as PCM has the Oppo doing the decoding - so the Denon simply does the digital-to-analog conversion. And since it's in PCM the Denon can still apply any/all changes/adjustments you have calibrated in the Denon. When you use the RCA-analog inputs, all of those adjustments are ignored.

Having the Oppo do the decoding is a *good* thing. The Oppo (and the PS3) have been consistently good at decoding lossless tracks correctly. Receivers (and pre-processors) I see keep making mistakes with DTS audio lossless tracks. I think you're much better off with the Oppo doing the lossless movie-based audio decoding...
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post #4348 of 12353 Old 03-25-2013, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill222 View Post

I'm hoping this works. In many ways it's better than my RCA-analog suggestion. Sending the signal over the HDMI as PCM has the Oppo doing the decoding - so the Denon simply does the digital-to-analog conversion. And since it's in PCM the Denon can still apply any/all changes/adjustments you have calibrated in the Denon. When you use the RCA-analog inputs, all of those adjustments are ignored.

Having the Oppo do the decoding is a *good* thing. The Oppo (and the PS3) have been consistently good at decoding lossless tracks correctly. Receivers (and pre-processors) I see keep making mistakes with DTS audio lossless tracks. I think you're much better off with the Oppo doing the lossless movie-based audio decoding...

I will try this out later today, and hopefully this will work!smile.gif
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post #4349 of 12353 Old 03-25-2013, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by KeesN View Post


thanks for your respons. Please keep me updated!

Am I correct in thinking that the pro calibration data is saved in the Config.dat when I do a SAVE on the 8801?
or is this data lost and should the pro-consultant get back in ?

 

The calibration data, regardless of whether the calibration is a standard one or a Pro one, is indeed saved when you do a network save.  This is why you should always do a fresh network save after running a new calibration.  It is especially important for you, since having the consultant calibrate your system is probably not inexpensive.

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post #4350 of 12353 Old 03-25-2013, 08:51 AM
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I contacted Marantz support this morning about my firmware fail problem. There fix is to reset the network/processor with the following command. While unplugged press and hold on the front panel movie/music buttons while plugging in unit. This should reset the network and processor. Except on my unit of course. I still get a locked in standby mode condition. Now, I have to take to unit to a service repair place to resolve the problem. I suggested to the helpful assistant that Marantz allow users to download the firmware from their website to a usb device and update it that way. He said he would pass that along.

Now is Forever
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