Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 171 - AVS Forum
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post #5101 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

Thanks for trying to help me. I've selected -NONE- command instead of PowerOn. Per Logitech wizard instruction, I'm being asked to attach AV8801 remote so that it can learn it's power command. After learning the power button command I was provided with PowerON command. So, I've ignored the learning step since the PowerON command turns on all zones. Unfortunately, the -NONE- command has enabled all 4 zones. Do you know what steps I have missed?

I have to correct myself, here are my steps for the defining the command that will Power ON my device (In my case it's the AV8801):

Step 1: I select - A botton ON for remote ON, and a differrent button for OFF
Step 2: I select - I don't have the original remote, but I know the command that is used
Step 3: I change the "PowerON" command to -NONE-, and receive the warning that I don't have a command to turn ON the power.

Then the setup takes me through the steps for defining the command that will Power OFF my device (In my case, again it's the AV8801):

Step 1: I select - I don't have the original remote, but I know the command that is used
Step 2: I selected the "PowerOFF" command to "Power OFF".

As of result - I select Watch TV, the AV8801 turn ON... it goes through SAT/CBL initial state... Then disables my MAIN ZONE... Blanks the display... And turns on ZONE 2.

When I push the Power button to turn OFF my hometheater gear, the Main Zone turns ON.

I understand that somewhere in the menus, I have to specify the trigger mechanism to turn on the power based on my selected activity, by defining a command of the desired input source such as SAT/CBL, Blu-Ray, etc... Where do I look for than input selection?

- Alex
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post #5102 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Hmmm.  Wouldn't/shouldn't one assume that PURE DIRECT would disengage or bypass all processing?  Else what's DIRECT for?

Pure Direct does not disengage Bass Set to LFE+Main when your speakers are set to LARGE.
I have tested this with the blu-ray input via COAX, HDMI, and Balanced XLR.
Bass management is not supported on the the 7.1 analog inputs.

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post #5103 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 09:48 AM
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Apparently all that "Pure" does (when compared to just "Direct") is turn off the front panel display.

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post #5104 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Apparently all that "Pure" does (when compared to just "Direct") is turn off the front panel display.

And it turns off the analog audio out.
I am not sure what else but I prefer the sound to direct.

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post #5105 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Pure Direct does not disengage Bass Set to LFE+Main when your speakers are set to LARGE.
I have tested this with the blu-ray input via COAX, HDMI, and Balanced XLR.
Bass management is not supported on the the 7.1 analog inputs.

- Rich

Still spreading incorrect info rolleyes.gif

So I'll say it again! regardless of LFE+ Main and large speakers setting.

"Pure Direct" bypasses all processing! wink.gif
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post #5106 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Still spreading incorrect info rolleyes.gif

So I'll say it again! regardless of LFE+ Main and large speakers setting.

"Pure Direct" bypasses all processing! wink.gif

Say it as many times as you want, you are wrong.
I have tested this, will someone else try this on the BLu-Ray input so I can get this monkey off my back wink.gif

BTW, others with Denon have also found that LFE+Main also functions in pure direct mode.

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post #5107 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 12:40 PM
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For those interesting in Pure Direct with bass set to LFE+Main, there is a thread on a holics forum who have also found this to be the case.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/84899-pure-direct-vs-stereo.html

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post #5108 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Say it as many times as you want, you are wrong.
I have tested this, will someone else try this on the BLu-Ray input so I can get this monkey off my back wink.gif

BTW, others with Denon have also found that LFE+Main also functions in pure direct mode.

- Rich

As stated rolleyes.gif it doesn't when" XLR" are assigned to the 'CD" input. Would you like to tell use how you confirmed this? let me guess when you pressed the volume you say the "Sub" as part of the speaker output but did you try raising or lowering the volume on the sub? turn it up to the max mine has no output when LFE+Main is set, even when mains are set to large eek.gif this lets me hear my Oppo 105 in all its glory for 2/CH via the 8801's "Pure direct" no processing including bass mode tongue.gif
and I want my banana when you're certain you're dead wrong on this one!
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post #5109 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 12:52 PM
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I never tested the CD input so I will make no comment about it.
Read my post I tested the Blu-Ray input, mains set to large and bass set to LFE+Main.

Did you test the blu-ray input. Even a lower primate can tell when the sub woofer is engaged?

If you did and your subwoofer is not working, your unit is defective. smile.gif

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post #5110 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 01:16 PM
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Here is another post quoting a AVS Denon Guru's description of Stereo, Direct, and Pure Direct modes.

There is some interesting reading there:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/84899-pure-direct-vs-stereo-3.html#.UXBTKMu9KSM

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post #5111 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I never tested the CD input so I will make no comment about it.
Read my post I tested the Blu-Ray input, mains set to large and bass set to LFE+Main.

Did you test the blu-ray input. Even a lower primate can tell when the sub woofer is engaged?

If you did and your subwoofer is not working, your unit is defective. smile.gif

- Rich

Go back through the "thread" I was the the one who originally posted on your findings wink.gif so been there and done that which is why I recommend the "CD" input for XLR assignment, and what you may find is preamp worth it's salt for 2/ch and no processing in the way of the Sabre dac's!
Oh! and no need to use the "Game mode" biggrin.gif
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post #5112 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Here is another post quoting a AVS Denon Guru's description of Stereo, Direct, and Pure Direct modes.

There is some interesting reading there:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/84899-pure-direct-vs-stereo-3.html#.UXBTKMu9KSM

- Rich

Read it before but thanks for the link smile.gif
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post #5113 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post


Pure Direct does not disengage Bass Set to LFE+Main when your speakers are set to LARGE.
I have tested this with the blu-ray input via COAX, HDMI, and Balanced XLR.
Bass management is not supported on the the 7.1 analog inputs.

- Rich

If you say so.  I never use LFE+Main, so I wouldn't know (or care).


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post #5114 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 03:31 PM
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Did you test the blu-ray input. Even a lower primate can tell when the sub woofer is engaged?

I don't know about that. Depending on the capability and displacement of your mains, and how air tight your room is, you could very well have a good bit of sympathetic pressurization to cause the sub's cones to move even when they are not engaged. Never thought it was possible until I saw it happen last weekend with a pair of seaton cat12c's.

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post #5115 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

I have to correct myself, here are my steps for the defining the command that will Power ON my device (In my case it's the AV8801):

Step 1: I select - A botton ON for remote ON, and a differrent button for OFF
Step 2: I select - I don't have the original remote, but I know the command that is used
Step 3: I change the "PowerON" command to -NONE-, and receive the warning that I don't have a command to turn ON the power.

Then the setup takes me through the steps for defining the command that will Power OFF my device (In my case, again it's the AV8801):

Step 1: I select - I don't have the original remote, but I know the command that is used
Step 2: I selected the "PowerOFF" command to "Power OFF".

As of result - I select Watch TV, the AV8801 turn ON... it goes through SAT/CBL initial state... Then disables my MAIN ZONE... Blanks the display... And turns on ZONE 2.

When I push the Power button to turn OFF my hometheater gear, the Main Zone turns ON.

I understand that somewhere in the menus, I have to specify the trigger mechanism to turn on the power based on my selected activity, by defining a command of the desired input source such as SAT/CBL, Blu-Ray, etc... Where do I look for than input selection?

I've made partial progress with regards to automatic multi-zone power ON command.

I've used AV8801 remote and chose ZONE SELECT button > MAIN. Then, I've created a new command "ZonePwrMain" and performed learn RAW command. I've repeated these steps to also create Zone2Pwr through Zone4Pwr.

To validate my progress, I've selected ZonePwrMain as my new power On/Off command and transferred all 4 zones soft keys to Harmony ONE. Even-though, AV8801 still automatically turns on Zone 2, I'm now able to select "AV8801" device from the soft-key menu and individually turn ON and OFF all zones without problems.

I'm not sure why the zone softkeys work properly, but will not turn-on the AV8801 via ACTIVITY soft-key without de-activating zone 2.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated:)

- Alex
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post #5116 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

If you say so.  I never use LFE+Main, so I wouldn't know (or care).

I thought I did. However, there are owners who like Direct and Pure Direct and also want to use their subs.
D&M must think so.

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post #5117 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 06:03 PM
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I recently setup my AV8801, and I'd like to ask other owners if they use the Dialogue Enchancer (Low, Medium or Large) and Audyssey DEQ DLO (+5, +10 or +15) or not.

I've set mine to DE Low and DLO to +5DB.

Thanks,
Dave

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post #5118 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Not like older Marantz models no (ie. optical/digital coax PCM 2.0 --> Zone 2); however, it does feature (1) an "All Zone Stereo" feature which will pass any source playing in the main zone to Zones 2/3 while downmixing the main zone source to 2.0, and (2) a Zone 4 HDMI output which will pass any of the rear panel HDMI inputs (audio/video) to a Zone 4 HDMI sync (ie. TV or AVR).

Seems strange to me that this newer unit wouldn't be able to do that too. I'm assuming airplay can be sent to the 2/3/4 zones even if not playing in the main zone?
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post #5119 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post


I thought I did. However, there are owners who like Direct and Pure Direct and also want to use their subs.
D&M must think so.

- Rich

Yup.  There is a feature race in the market.  Something for everyone.


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post #5120 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

I've made partial progress with regards to automatic multi-zone power ON command.

I've used AV8801 remote and chose ZONE SELECT button > MAIN. Then, I've created a new command "ZonePwrMain" and performed learn RAW command. I've repeated these steps to also create Zone2Pwr through Zone4Pwr.

To validate my progress, I've selected ZonePwrMain as my new power On/Off command and transferred all 4 zones soft keys to Harmony ONE. Even-though, AV8801 still automatically turns on Zone 2, I'm now able to select "AV8801" device from the soft-key menu and individually turn ON and OFF all zones without problems.

I'm not sure why the zone softkeys work properly, but will not turn-on the AV8801 via ACTIVITY soft-key without de-activating zone 2.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated:)

Multi-Zone power ON problem is solved.

I ended-up using ZonePwrMain command to power on/off AV8801, reset its Dalay from 0mS back to 2,000mS... Plus, I have added Zone2Pwr sequence command within Watch TV activity... And now my pre/pro works like a champ.

I think Logitech has some serious bug issues, since so many people are struggling with multi-zone input selection. Or we're lacking clear instructions to help us setup our receivers.

- Alex
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post #5121 of 11873 Old 04-18-2013, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by denaliman View Post

I use a Harmony 900, but the interface should be the same. Just add a 3 buttons in the Harmony set up and link them to MOVIE, MUSIC, GAME. They should be in the database. Once programmed use it the same way as the Marantz remote. Just hold down the touchscreen buttons until the selections appear on the screen. Toggle to the one you want to use (multichannel, DTS neoX Etc)

Thanks for suggestions Denaliman,

I have created MovieMode, MusicMode and GameMode soft-key button. No matter how long I've holding the button, I just seeing its mode's current setting. I can't seen to replicate the original remote's pull-up menu with many mode choices. I guess I'll need to play with dalays and other sequencing commands. I love and hate Harmony controllers all at the same time:)

- Alex
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post #5122 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Here is another post quoting a AVS Denon Guru's description of Stereo, Direct, and Pure Direct modes.

There is some interesting reading there:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/84899-pure-direct-vs-stereo-3.html#.UXBTKMu9KSM

- Rich

And sorry much of the information on that thread is still wrong. Some models within D&M allow you todo processing on modes they claim is not possible. In fact getting them to become 100% analog is very hard. Its been posted several times but its 100% possible to apply audyssey on a 5308 and avp in pure-direct mode or use a sub. Claiming what is possible or not on these modes without naming the model number is only confusing people.

I now have a 8801 to replace my AVP since its in for repair frown.gif so i feel ok in posting in this thread. The 8801 is not a bad unit but in many area's not up to the level of the mightly avp esp. in options like outlined above. The bad news i did manage to blow up the 8801 within 3 hours of use (probably a lemon) so can't play with it any longer to compare it to the denon.

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post #5123 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

And sorry much of the information on that thread is still wrong. Some models within D&M allow you todo processing on modes they claim is not possible. In fact getting them to become 100% analog is very hard. Its been posted several times but its 100% possible to apply audyssey on a 5308 and avp in pure-direct mode or use a sub. Claiming what is possible or not on these modes without naming the model number is only confusing people.

I now have a 8801 to replace my AVP since its in for repair frown.gif so i feel ok in posting in this thread. The 8801 is not a bad unit but in many area's not up to the level of the mightly avp esp. in options like outlined above. The bad news i did manage to blow up the 8801 within 3 hours of use (probably a lemon) so can't play with it any longer to compare it to the denon.

Daniel.



So in your brief time with the probably a lemon 8801, you ran Audyssey and played with it long enough to determine exactly what was not up to the level of the AVP? I understand the Denon is a good pre/pro, but it's five years old and doesn't even have the latest Audyssey unless you send it to an authorized service center. It sounds like Denon needs to make a new pre/pro to keep up with the 8801.
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post #5124 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

So in your brief time with the probably lemon 8801, you ran Audyssey and played with it long enough to determine exactly what was not up to the level of the AVP? I understand the Denon is a good pre/pro, but it's five years old and doesn't even have the latest Audyssey unless you send it to an authorized service center. It sounds like Denon needs to make a new pre/pro to keep up with the 8801.

I posted a little more on the avp thread and the other 'dual' owner ohyeah32 seems to agree. Indeed 3 hours is very little time to compare them for sure and the 8801 seems a fine unit. Maybe the most impressive things are because the AVP is a 2007 design it can still be so impressive in the area of build, options and settings.

My AVP has the update so the compare to the 8801 is fair, i tested both with and without xt32. Now XT32 and/or pro takes time and a little fiddling so i am sure more was to be gained from the 8801 if i had more time.

Build : The 8801 is nice but its not a AVP, at 1/3 of the price (in europe with the 3d update) this is maybe not expected

Sounds: Always the hardest to say in such a limited time. One thing i know for a fact is that the AVP/POA combo has a lower noise level. At 0dB without content the AVP doesn't produce any noise on my speakers ears at say 30cm from speakers. On the 8801 i can pick up noise up about 1 meter away. The sound quality to me seems that the AVP was more focussed and imaging was sharper i prefer that but some might prefer the more diffuse sound of the 8801.

Audyssey: Both sounded better with than without it in my room. setup are very similar and probably same people worked on it. Missed the fact that as far as i could see i can't use audyssey in pure-direct mode.

OSD: unless i am mistaken the 8801 most of the time doesn't overlay its menu's over the video (for example when going into the menu's). For the rest i found the 'tunning' they did with the 'gold' look not really a step forward almost trying to put lipstick on a pig.

Remote: hard to believe but its even worse than the 2 remotes we got with the AVP now i am sure most won't use them anywhere but pffff.

Connections : Well just look at the back of the 2 units. Now i agree you don't need all these svideo's anymore but i would run out of simple digital in's quickly since i prefer them for audio over hdmi.

Settings: flipping through the menu's its very similar maybe the new X000 line will change that but its still the old structure. I did notice that where the AVP has 3 levels of settings the 8801 mostly stops at 2. As a result i missed many small tweaks that are possible on the avp that could not quickly see on the 8801. Small example i could not quickly see how to use a hdmi input for video but take the audio from spdif.

After about 3 hours of use i heard a pop in my right channel, again 15 seconds later and my amp shut down. Looks like something blew in the analog part of the right channel both over rca and xlr. With the AVP you can reroute channels after the digital stage to any (or multiple) of the output boards i could have rerouted the signal to say SW2 or SW3 and continued using it again more flexible.

I am sure there are area's where the 8801 is more modern than a updated AVP, but what the designers of the AVP aimed for as a starting point in what you can do was so much higher and it still shows in 2013 even after 5 years.

Not trying to bash the 8801 in fact i am glad to see a nice pre/pro at this price level was always sad denon dropped their idea to release a smaller AVP-CIX a few years ago and the 8801 seems to be close to that and will make many people happy.

The AVP was a exception even among other units in its price class the focus of putting so much into a single box and more switches and options (combined with D&M known bad manuals) is not for everybody.

Maybe ohyeah32 can add more flavour to this discussion but my short visit with the 8801 vs my AVP-3D made me appreciate even more what their engineers created way back and i hope its back soon to take its place in my rack for a few more years.

Daniel.

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post #5125 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Seems strange to me that this newer unit wouldn't be able to do that too. I'm assuming airplay can be sent to the 2/3/4 zones even if not playing in the main zone?

Greetings,

Airplay can definitely be sent to Z2 independent of the Main Zone. I don't have Z3 setup but would assume that it would work similarly.


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post #5126 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 06:23 AM
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My personal guess is that D&M don't plan to release a pre/pro with Denon branding any time soon. The Marantz AV8801 is the Denon AVR 4520 with the appropriate tweaks to make it into a pre/pro. The model numbers of the two units don't correspond to the annual model number changes they've used up until this year, which implies to me that they don't want them to appear to be obsolete despite annual changes in the numbering used for their other systems.

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post #5127 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

I posted a little more on the avp thread and the other 'dual' owner ohyeah32 seems to agree. Indeed 3 hours is very little time to compare them for sure and the 8801 seems a fine unit. Maybe the most impressive things are because the AVP is a 2007 design it can still be so impressive in the area of build, options and settings.

My AVP has the update so the compare to the 8801 is fair, i tested both with and without xt32. Now XT32 and/or pro takes time and a little fiddling so i am sure more was to be gained from the 8801 if i had more time.

Build : The 8801 is nice but its not a AVP, at 1/3 of the price (in europe with the 3d update) this is maybe not expected

Sounds: Always the hardest to say in such a limited time. One thing i know for a fact is that the AVP/POA combo has a lower noise level. At 0dB without content the AVP doesn't produce any noise on my speakers ears at say 30cm from speakers. On the 8801 i can pick up noise up about 1 meter away. The sound quality to me seems that the AVP was more focussed and imaging was sharper i prefer that but some might prefer the more diffuse sound of the 8801.

Audyssey: Both sounded better with than without it in my room. setup are very similar and probably same people worked on it. Missed the fact that as far as i could see i can't use audyssey in pure-direct mode.

OSD: unless i am mistaken the 8801 most of the time doesn't overlay its menu's over the video (for example when going into the menu's). For the rest i found the 'tunning' they did with the 'gold' look not really a step forward almost trying to put lipstick on a pig.

Remote: hard to believe but its even worse than the 2 remotes we got with the AVP now i am sure most won't use them anywhere but pffff.

Connections : Well just look at the back of the 2 units. Now i agree you don't need all these svideo's anymore but i would run out of simple digital in's quickly since i prefer them for audio over hdmi.

Settings: flipping through the menu's its very similar maybe the new X000 line will change that but its still the old structure. I did notice that where the AVP has 3 levels of settings the 8801 mostly stops at 2. As a result i missed many small tweaks that are possible on the avp that could not quickly see on the 8801. Small example i could not quickly see how to use a hdmi input for video but take the audio from spdif.

After about 3 hours of use i heard a pop in my right channel, again 15 seconds later and my amp shut down. Looks like something blew in the analog part of the right channel both over rca and xlr. With the AVP you can reroute channels after the digital stage to any (or multiple) of the output boards i could have rerouted the signal to say SW2 or SW3 and continued using it again more flexible.

I am sure there are area's where the 8801 is more modern than a updated AVP, but what the designers of the AVP aimed for as a starting point in what you can do was so much higher and it still shows in 2013 even after 5 years.

Not trying to bash the 8801 in fact i am glad to see a nice pre/pro at this price level was always sad denon dropped their idea to release a smaller AVP-CIX a few years ago and the 8801 seems to be close to that and will make many people happy.

The AVP was a exception even among other units in its price class the focus of putting so much into a single box and more switches and options (combined with D&M known bad manuals) is not for everybody.

Maybe ohyeah32 can add more flavour to this discussion but my short visit with the 8801 vs my AVP-3D made me appreciate even more what their engineers created way back and i hope its back soon to take its place in my rack for a few more years.

Daniel.



Thanks for clarifying and good luck with your repair smile.gif
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post #5128 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 07:03 AM
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Hello, everyones insight and help on my previous posts have been greatly appreciated and I am just about to purchase one of these units but I do have one lingering question that the manual is pretty vague on. I currently have a Yamaha RX-A3010 and one feature it has that I and the wife really like is the HDMI passthrough which allows use to just watch TV through the unit without having to power it on. Does the Marantz AV8801 do this? In the manual it mentions switching to "Last used" as a setting but for the life of me I can't find where it says it allows the HDMI to passthorugh when the unit is off. Any help before I purchase this unit would be greatly appreciated as this may be a sticking point and will have to figure out an alternate config if passthrough is not an option. Thank you


EDIT

Just to clarify, on the yamaha all that is needed is to select the HDMI input while the unit is off and that is the input that is passed through. Page 128 of the manual shows that passthorugh is possible but does it allow you to select the HDMI input to pass through only to set "Last:" or a dedicated input as the passthrough source.

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post #5129 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by smitty8451 View Post

Hello, everyones insight and help on my previous posts have been greatly appreciated and I am just about to purchase one of these units but I do have one lingering question that the manual is pretty vague on. I currently have a Yamaha RX-A3010 and one feature it has that I and the wife really like is the HDMI passthrough which allows use to just watch TV through the unit without having to power it on. Does the Marantz AV8801 do this? In the manual it mentions switching to "Last used" as a setting but for the life of me I can't find where it says it allows the HDMI to passthorugh when the unit is off. Any help before I purchase this unit would be greatly appreciated as this may be a sticking point and will have to figure out an alternate config if passthrough is not an option. Thank you

Greetings,

Yes it does pass the signal through while the unit is in standby. In addition to the last used option you also have the option of selecting which input you would like passed through. smile.gif


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post #5130 of 11873 Old 04-19-2013, 07:50 AM
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Thank you Ralph, does it also pass through any selection on the fly while the unit is off. The reason I ask is in the morning I browse the net with my HTPC, when the wife wakes up she will watch Directv. Can you just switch the inputs to passthrough without turning on the unit to make the selection. The yamaha lets you just use the remote to select the input while the unit is off and out to the TV the signal goes. BTW are you the same Ralph that used to post on another website (the name escapes me at the moment) on the B&K REF 50 series of Pre-Pros back in 05-06 timeframe? If so I want to thank you as your insight into that unit when I had it allways was a great help.

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