Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 217 - AVS Forum
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post #6481 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 10:32 AM
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I have a couple of questions

 

Do you know if the MM7025 and MM7055 are truly differential balanced design?

 

Also is the fan loud in the MM7025!

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post #6482 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 04:16 PM
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Wse.... From what i understand and read a few months ago.... to get a truly balanced output on a processor you are looking at the 10,000 dollars and up class of processors. companies like theta... but do i truly know first hand????? No. just passing on what i have heard

Bill
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post #6483 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 04:19 PM
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Does anyone know if the 8801 does HDCD decoding over HDMI?
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post #6484 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View PostWse.... From what i understand and read a few months ago.... to get a truly balanced output on a processor you are looking at the 10,000 dollars and up class of processors. companies like theta... but do i truly know first hand????? No. just passing on what i have heard Bill
Classe  CP-800 is truly balanced cost $5000

 

http://www.classeaudio.com/downloads/pdfs/preamps/CP-800_WhitePaper-final2.pdf

 

"Analog quality: Make no mistake, the CP-800 is also our best analog preamplifier ever.  With pure Analog Bypass available for legacy sources (so pure, in fact,  that when selected the digital clocks are turned off), fully balanced  circuitry and completely isolated symmetrical left and right channels,  your analog sources will sound better than ever. The CP-800 makes  digital processing available to all sources, but when you want pure  analog, there is no digital noise nor is there any compromise."
 
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post #6485 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 05:35 PM
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That sounds more like the analog out....thinking like the opportunity 105 vs. 103... the only difference is the separate analog out rca jacks........

I thought you were speaking about a truly balanced xlr out to an amp...

sorry for the confusion...

Bill
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post #6486 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 05:37 PM
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Err.... damn spell correct... i ment OPPO 103 vs. 105.... not "opportunity"
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post #6487 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

Wse.... From what i understand and read a few months ago.... to get a truly balanced output on a processor you are looking at the 10,000 dollars and up class of processors. companies like theta... but do i truly know first hand????? No. just passing on what i have heard

Bill

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Classe  CP-800 is truly balanced cost $5000

But it is not really a processor (although the lines are fading) but a 2-channel digital/analog preamp.


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post #6488 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

Wse.... From what i understand and read a few months ago.... to get a truly balanced output on a processor you are looking at the 10,000 dollars and up class of processors. companies like theta... but do i truly know first hand????? No. just passing on what i have heard

Bill

The Denon is truly balanced. I don't know of anything cheaper that is, but I don't really know how much true sonic benefit there would be to this. With some of the great DACs coming into the market right now it wouldn't be hard to do a fully differential output on most SSPs even at lower prices.

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post #6489 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 06:57 PM
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Again... when you are speaking about "truly balanced" i take that as a truly balanced xlr out put to a dedicated amp...

i guess i need little clarification on the topic at hand.

Bill
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post #6490 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 08:00 PM
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I mean a truly differential output stage from the DAC on. I believe Audioholics has a bunch of stuff including flow diagrams of the Denon AVP1 output. Surprisingly their matching amp was not a balanced design.

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post #6491 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Just got my dedicated mic boom for Audyssey and looking forward to running it this weekend. The first time I ran it my fronts were biamped and Audyssey crossed them at 250Hz and told me they were out of phase. I'm over the biamping thing and my setup sounds much better the single amp way. Is everyone running Audyssey with all the mic positions? I've heard some say they only run it with the 3 positions on the seating area.
I've probably run the set-up eight times. Got the out of phase message a couple of times, it turned out to be my swamp cooler running. The low consistent background noise also seemed to cause set-up to miss speakers after they had already been identified during the initial sound check. The sound seems to be fuller after you have run set-up using eight mic positions vs. three. My fronts are bi-amped and they were crossed at 40Hz without the background noise.
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post #6492 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Does anyone know if the 8801 does HDCD decoding over HDMI?

No, HDCD is no longer a feature offered on D&M AVRs. Marantz last offered it about 5 years ago and Denon about 3 years ago.

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post #6493 of 12292 Old 06-27-2013, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcas View Post

I've probably run the set-up eight times. Got the out of phase message a couple of times, it turned out to be my swamp cooler running. The low consistent background noise also seemed to cause set-up to miss speakers after they had already been identified during the initial sound check. The sound seems to be fuller after you have run set-up using eight mic positions vs. three. My fronts are bi-amped and they were crossed at 40Hz without the background noise.



One of the biggest challenges for me is the background noise. Thanks for posting your results.
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post #6494 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No, HDCD is no longer a feature offered on D&M AVRs. Marantz last offered it about 5 years ago and Denon about 3 years ago.

Oppo players support HDCD that can be output LPCM and analog.

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post #6495 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No, HDCD is no longer a feature offered on D&M AVRs. Marantz last offered it about 5 years ago and Denon about 3 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Oppo players support HDCD that can be output LPCM and analog.

- Rich



I didn't think the Marantz did, thanks guys. I just changed some of my Oppo 93 settings including using LPCM over bitstream, I'll give this a good listen over the weekend.
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post #6496 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 06:57 AM
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I would doubt that the demon is truly balanced... again only going on from what i have read. if there is a place that shows the building process and then it can be confirm that way.

it maybe... but i do not know for sure.

the classe piece that wse was speaking about is a music stereo component not a home theater type processor.

are you just looking for two channel?

any way you look at it, i am sure there has to be some benefit to a FULLY BALANCED xlr out.
would you hear a difference? doubt it.

but there are the people out there that spend thousands on power cords, solid silver speaker wire, interconnect...etc but if you have the money for all of that i do not think you would be looking at the demon piece or the marantz piece either.


Bill
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post #6497 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

I would doubt that the demon is truly balanced... again only going on from what i have read. if there is a place that shows the building process and then it can be confirm that way.

What is the "demon piece"?

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post #6498 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 08:10 AM
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Denon....... spell correct issues , again
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post #6499 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

I would doubt that the demon is truly balanced... again only going on from what i have read. if there is a place that shows the building process and then it can be confirm that way.

Bill

He provided you with a source where you can read all about it. The AVP is balanced (you can argue the pro or cons) :

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/processors/denon-avp-a1hdci/review-addendum-balanced-transmission-further-explored

@Kris i have seen you comment that the POA is not balanced but isn't the idea that you use 2 amp channels (like the image shows) to get this. In this drawing you can see how they use 2 poa's (20 channels) to get it for 10 input signals :

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/processors/denon-avp-a1hdci/AVPA1HDCI_POAA1HDCI_disassembly_image_E3.jpg/image_view_fullscreen

Most of us (me iincluded) use it in a 7.1 setup and so only use 2 amps per channel for the 3 fronts.

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post #6500 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View PostCP-800 But it is not really a processor (although the lines are fading) but a 2-channel digital/analog preamp.

 

OK but the SSP-800 is truly differential balanced and I bought it for less than $10K wink.gif

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post #6501 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 04:27 PM
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I've talked to many engineers in the audio world about fully differential vs single ended and whether it is worth it. Most say no, it is just more pieces/parts that do little to the overall noise (that just running XLR takes care of) and actually ends up having more room for issues since you're double building. I've run both ways in my system and honestly couldn't tell any difference at all. Measurements probably would show differences but whether they are truly audible is another thing entirely.

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post #6502 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View PostI've talked to many engineers in the audio world about fully differential vs single ended and whether it is worth it. Most say no, it is just more pieces/parts that do little to the overall noise (that just running XLR takes care of) and actually ends up having more room for issues since you're double building. I've run both ways in my system and honestly couldn't tell any difference at all. Measurements probably would show differences but whether they are truly audible is another thing entirely.

If you have RFI and EMI it is helpful :)

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post #6503 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 06:50 PM
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And most pre-pro's that have XLR connections are not fully balanced any way. They just use some op-amp trickery internally.

XLR-Balanced was mainly for running long distances in a pro audio project like mic cables back to a mixing console.

Yes it is helpful in noise reduction from RFI, EMI and even the FBI but that is rare in a home.

So do I use XLR cables? Yes. Why? I just like the click the connector makes when I plug it in...

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post #6504 of 12292 Old 06-28-2013, 08:06 PM
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Even non differential will help with RFI and EMI. The output stage could still be balanced it is just not end to end.

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post #6505 of 12292 Old 06-29-2013, 05:56 AM
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Anyone know how to hard reset the 8801. I have just about killed my back shuffling my submersive from one side of the room to the other thinking my new XLR cabling was the issue only to find that even though I set XLR in the setup assistant it is staying on RCA which was what I was previously using.

Just pulled the power to see if it changes after a break, maybe it's a firmware bug?
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post #6506 of 12292 Old 06-29-2013, 06:05 AM
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The microprocessor reset procedure is described on p. 186 of the Owner's manual, although you will likely want to SAVE the configuration file to a PC using the Web Control feature (p. 106) first unless you want to rerun Audyssey setup again.

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post #6507 of 12292 Old 06-29-2013, 06:16 AM
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Thanks, I'll give that a go
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post #6508 of 12292 Old 06-29-2013, 07:43 AM
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Well although I can reset it using the method in the manual, I have had no luck getting it to work, I even tried connecting the submersive to the left channel then sent a test signal and it still didn't work, so I am starting to think the submersive could be not liking the wiring on the XLR. I'll have to get in contact with Mark and / or see whats in the submersive thread.

Really quite annoying as I have all the cabling direct to a server rack in a utility room and was hoping to get into a quick re-calibration and get back to enjoying the new room. mad.gif
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post #6509 of 12292 Old 06-29-2013, 07:45 AM
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Please let us know the solution to this issue.

Joel
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post #6510 of 12292 Old 06-29-2013, 05:56 PM
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I'm working it through with Mark, but it is looking like it doesn't receive a signal from the 8801. So my two thought are either the 8801 is not switching the XLR on, so I will have to get a different cable to try, or my other thought is that the cable I am using is a Belden 1800B which is 110 ohm so maybe it is not sending or receiving a strong enough signal?
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