Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 229 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6841 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Yes and it seems I'm not alone with the high XO settings. I'm hoping when I run XT32 again they end up being somewhere that I feel better about. If not I've read the pro version lets you make these settings? I'm asking here because I'm not familiar with the pro version at all. All this said my setup sounds better after I set the XO's to 80 rather than leave them at 250. Although I know this is just covering up a deeper problem.

Yes just takes some experimenting. It's measuring the rolloff in your room, so I'm confident what Audyssey is telling me is accurate from where the measurements were taken. A tight group of measurements probably gives you the best sound directly at the MLP. More spread out I bet lowers the mains XO point in my room. Will it still sound as good at the MLP? My 8 measurements have been tight because I just have 1 couch. I'm going to try 4 tight and 4 more spread out and see what I get. I think you need to treat room problems as best you can before Audyssey. Then it becomes very dependent on mic placement it seems.

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post #6842 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Yes just takes some experimenting. It's measuring the rolloff in your room, so I'm confident what Audyssey is telling me is accurate from where the measurements were taken. A tight group of measurements probably gives you the best sound directly at the MLP. More spread out I bet lowers the mains XO point in my room. Will it still sound as good at the MLP? My 8 measurements have been tight because I just have 1 couch. I'm going to try 4 tight and 4 more spread out and see what I get. I think you need to treat room problems as best you can before Audyssey. Then it becomes very dependent on mic placement it seems.



Gotcha. It can't hurt to try the pattern you stated. There are no exact mic positions and I really spread mine out last time, but this time I'm going with a tight pattern to see what happens.
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post #6843 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 08:32 AM
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Ordered the av8801 with the mm8077 yesterday! Trading in the sr7007! So pumped:)

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post #6844 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Gotcha. It can't hurt to try the pattern you stated. There are no exact mic positions and I really spread mine out last time, but this time I'm going with a tight pattern to see what happens.


Lemme know

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post #6845 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

Ordered the av8801 with the mm8077 yesterday! Trading in the sr7007! So pumped:)



Congrats, and let us know what you think smile.gif
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post #6846 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 09:18 AM
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I have not had a chance to listen to them prior to purchase but love the sound of the avrs with my set up. This setup should sound even better! Hope the audysse thing posted above is not an issue. It set all my crossovers correctly when i ran it with the sr7007 so hope the xt32 dows not change that.

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post #6847 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I have not had a chance to listen to them prior to purchase but love the sound of the avrs with my set up. This setup should sound even better! Hope the audysse thing posted above is not an issue. It set all my crossovers correctly when i ran it with the sr7007 so hope the xt32 dows not change that.



I'll go out on a limb Dr and say your new setup will out perform your AVR"s smile.gif don't worry about any issues, I believe the crossover thing is just speaker placement and room accoustics.
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post #6848 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Jd, after I ran Audyssey my mains were at 250Hz and I changed them to 80Hz. Does this mean that everything between 80 and 250 is now not filtered by XT32?

Correct. The speakers have only been EQ'd down to the crossover point set by the AVR. As KevinH notes, lowering them below that point creates a gap. As long as your mic positions are grouped within no more than a 2'-3' radius (or tighter) from the MLP (as recommended by Audyssey) and you are using either a mic boom stand or camera tripod to support the mic at seated ear height level, you should get fairly accurate crossover results.

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post #6849 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. The speakers have only been EQ'd down to the crossover point set by the AVR. As KevinH notes, lowering them below that point creates a gap. As long as your mic positions are grouped within no more than a 2'-3' radius (or tighter) from the MLP (as recommended by Audyssey) and you are using either a mic boom stand or camera tripod to support the mic at seated ear height level, you should get fairly accurate crossover results.



I have a pretty big gap then, and it's time to figure this out.
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post #6850 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. The speakers have only been EQ'd down to the crossover point set by the AVR. As KevinH notes, lowering them below that point creates a gap. As long as your mic positions are grouped within no more than a 2'-3' radius (or tighter) from the MLP (as recommended by Audyssey) and you are using either a mic boom stand or camera tripod to support the mic at seated ear height level, you should get fairly accurate crossover results.

JD, My mic placements have been very tight, at least 6 of the 8, and it keeps setting a 200Hz XO for my mains. My center(identical to left and right) and surrounds have been set pretty accurately every time. Trying to figure my mess out too.

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post #6851 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 12:14 PM
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Are these biamped?
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post #6852 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 12:31 PM
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I'm thinking about upgrading from my Onkyo TX-NR905 paired with an ATI AT2007 amp to a Marantz AV8801 paired with my AT2007.

Any comments on the RS232 protocol? I can't find it on Marantz.com. What I want to know is does it require polling for two-way feedback?

On my TX-NR905: I can walk up to the front of it and turn it on via the front power button and it sends commands over the RS232. I can also select a source and the unit automatically comes on and sends commands over RS232 so my system turns on my projector and the appropriate source. If I change the volume using the dial, again commands are sent over RS232 with no polling required. This occurs whether I use the Onkyo remote, buttons on the front of the unit, etc...

I'm wondering if the Marantz RS232 setup is similar or not. Will state changes initiated using the AV8801 remote or buttons on the front of the unit be automatically sent over RS232, or will polling be required? I probably will not buy the unit if polling is required, so I'm really hoping someone on here knows the answer to this.

Basically, my control system relies heavily on knowing what source is currently selected. If my wife gets up and selects the source manually or uses the factory remote, my system must know what the newly selected input is.

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post #6853 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by matthewa View Post

Hi guys, didn't realise you shouldn't move the crossover down, is there a way to reset to the audyssey results without re-running?

If you wrote down, or remember what crossover(s) Audyssey set when you ran it, then you can just go back into the menu and re-enter those original figures I believe...

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post #6854 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

JD, My mic placements have been very tight, at least 6 of the 8, and it keeps setting a 200Hz XO for my mains. My center(identical to left and right) and surrounds have been set pretty accurately every time. Trying to figure my mess out too.

Have you considered trying to get a hold of another mic? Any of the following mics will work: DM-A409, ACM-1H, or ACM-1HB.

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post #6855 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Have you considered trying to get a hold of another mic? Any of the following mics will work: DM-A409, ACM-1H, or ACM-1HB.

Not yet. Just got the 8801 Wednesday. It came with the ACM1HB

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post #6856 of 12660 Old 07-14-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

If you wrote down, or remember what crossover(s) Audyssey set when you ran it, then you can just go back into the menu and re-enter those original figures I believe...
Thanks, I just installed a new AT screen in front of the LCR + sub so I will have to re-run anyway and make sure I leave it or go higher.
I also had a variation like Kevin, I have identical front 3, the LR were set to full range but the centre was set to small and crossed over. Currently they sit at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 room width position.
It's sounds good, but I'd like to get it better, will have to read the audyssey guide as suggested too
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post #6857 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 04:17 AM
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KevinH

You might want to double check to be sure that there's nothing rattling in the room which might be best checked with a calibration disc that has a frequency sweep on it. The short burst signal of Audyssey would make it hard to find things in the room that rattle.

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post #6858 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Not yet. Just got the 8801 Wednesday. It came with the ACM1HB

Hi KevinH! I have a couple of questions how do your mains sound to you compared to the center when no Audyssey is applied running full range while music is playing? try stereo and multi with no sub engaged. Does the bass sound lacking or out of phase? as a simple test and it may be something audyssey isn't catching, but a simple miswiring may be suspect on main speakers , recheck and be sure they as all others connected correctly as it really sounds like its a reversed polarity and the lack of lows may be the cause of the 200hz setting. and if you have any pictures of the room it may prove useful. smile.gif
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post #6859 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. The speakers have only been EQ'd down to the crossover point set by the AVR. As KevinH notes, lowering them below that point creates a gap. As long as your mic positions are grouped within no more than a 2'-3' radius (or tighter) from the MLP (as recommended by Audyssey) and you are using either a mic boom stand or camera tripod to support the mic at seated ear height level, you should get fairly accurate crossover results.



I have a pretty big gap then, and it's time to figure this out.

250Hz usually is the internal crossover frequency between the woofer and the upper-frequency drivers in bi-ampable speakers. When that high a frequency is chosen by a receiver running Audyssey, it's consistent with Audyssey not hearing the woofers at all.

Are you still bi-amping the front speakers? If so, you might try undoing that. If not, double check that the jumpers between the woofers and the upper-frequency drivers are installed and tightly fastened. If the woofers are actually not getting any audio from the receiver, that would explain the problem.

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post #6860 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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If you want to boost the center channel, which method do you prefer?
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post #6861 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

250Hz usually is the internal crossover frequency between the woofer and the upper-frequency drivers in bi-ampable speakers. When that high a frequency is chosen by a receiver running Audyssey, it's consistent with Audyssey not hearing the woofers at all.

Are you still bi-amping the front speakers? If so, you might try undoing that. If not, double check that the jumpers between the woofers and the upper-frequency drivers are installed and tightly fastened. If the woofers are actually not getting any audio from the receiver, that would explain the problem.



Interesting Selden, I didn't know this. Yes I've changed the speakers back to normal. I've concluded at least with my Revels, that biamping them makes no difference. If anything they sound better wired traditionally. I'm trying to deal with some room issues before I run Audyssey again and I will post my results. I expect the high XO points will be lowered and my out of phase error gone. Thanks for your post.
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post #6862 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 01:09 PM
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If you want to boost the center channel, which method do you prefer?

Bumping the trim on the Center channel. using the dialogue enhancer I am not positive with what else it does to the system really, so just bumping the center channel a few dB's seems more logical. I know the one time I DID try dialogue enhancement, it did way more than I felt necessary.

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post #6863 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Hi KevinH! I have a couple of questions how do your mains sound to you compared to the center when no Audyssey is applied running full range while music is playing? try stereo and multi with no sub engaged. Does the bass sound lacking or out of phase? as a simple test and it may be something audyssey isn't catching, but a simple miswiring may be suspect on main speakers , recheck and be sure they as all others connected correctly as it really sounds like its a reversed polarity and the lack of lows may be the cause of the 200hz setting. and if you have any pictures of the room it may prove useful. smile.gif

Have checked wiring and phase with AIX test disc...even played individual 80, 90, 100Hz tones in each speaker....all strong and in phase. Here is the front stage as it is now.


I've done enough measuring and experimenting now to feel confident that it's a speaker placement, seating, Audyssey mic placement issue. tongue.gif

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post #6864 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Have checked wiring and phase with AIX test disc...even played individual 80, 90, 100Hz tones in each speaker....all strong and in phase. Here is the front stage as it is now.


I've done enough measuring and experimenting now to feel confident that it's a speaker placement, seating, Audyssey mic placement issue. tongue.gif

From what I can see and just guessing of course! as I haven't been in your room. have you put the orbit shifters in the corners behind the mains? It would seem they are cancelling the sidewall boundary reinforcement from the mains as seem to be at the first reflection point, but of course I know moving them is no easy task eek.gif have you tried moving the mains about a foot closer together and firing them forward? What I've found with Acoustic panel placement especially bass traps 18" off the floor seems best from a lot of trial and error on my part, the floor to ceiling bass traps may be killing off too much bass and a less is more application may restore a little low end.

I'd start by removing the traps behind the mains and listening and then run Audyssey to see if it lowers their crossover points in fact( I'm almost sure it will) , I do know when I put a GIK 7inch monster bass trap behind my mains it killed a lot of low end and I ended up putting it in the rear corner that loads with the most bass and it was the perfect spot. All I ended up with behind the mains where 24x24 4" open back bass traps and it was the perfect balance at 18 inches off the floor of course.
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post #6865 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Have checked wiring and phase with AIX test disc...even played individual 80, 90, 100Hz tones in each speaker....all strong and in phase. Here is the front stage as it is now.


I've done enough measuring and experimenting now to feel confident that it's a speaker placement, seating, Audyssey mic placement issue. tongue.gif



I'm no expert but you have to be getting a nasty reflection off those monster subs. Great setup though Kevin smile.gif
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post #6866 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 03:22 PM
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Haven't had a chance to re-run Audyssey but worked out what the original crossover was with LR full range and C at 80Hz. Put on Jack Reacher at close to reference, fricken Awesome! Crystal clear dialogue with ample bass, the car chase scenes were great. Didn't get a chance to try any music yet. Thanks for the tip re crossovers

One other thing I am struggling with quite a bit is lip sync with my bdp-83,seems a bit hit and miss depending on the content. Anyone else had any issues and worked it out?
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post #6867 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

From what I can see and just guessing of course! as I haven't been in your room. have you put the orbit shifters in the corners behind the mains? It would seem they are cancelling the sidewall boundary reinforcement from the mains as seem to be at the first reflection point, but of course I know moving them is no easy task eek.gif have you tried moving the mains about a foot closer together and firing them forward? What I've found with Acoustic panel placement especially bass traps 18" off the floor seems best from a lot of trial and error on my part, the floor to ceiling bass traps may be killing off too much bass and a less is more application may restore a little low end.

I'd start by removing the traps behind the mains and listening and then run Audyssey to see if it lowers their crossover points in fact( I'm almost sure it will) , I do know when I put a GIK 7inch monster bass trap behind my mains it killed a lot of low end and I ended up putting it in the rear corner that loads with the most bass and it was the perfect spot. All I ended up with behind the mains where 24x24 4" open back bass traps and it was the perfect balance at 18 inches off the floor of course.

Audiofan-

Could you post a picture of your HT set-up? It sounds like it is a very capable and well designed set-up.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #6868 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

From what I can see and just guessing of course! as I haven't been in your room. have you put the orbit shifters in the corners behind the mains? It would seem they are cancelling the sidewall boundary reinforcement from the mains as seem to be at the first reflection point, but of course I know moving them is no easy task eek.gif have you tried moving the mains about a foot closer together and firing them forward? What I've found with Acoustic panel placement especially bass traps 18" off the floor seems best from a lot of trial and error on my part, the floor to ceiling bass traps may be killing off too much bass and a less is more application may restore a little low end.

I'd start by removing the traps behind the mains and listening and then run Audyssey to see if it lowers their crossover points in fact( I'm almost sure it will) , I do know when I put a GIK 7inch monster bass trap behind my mains it killed a lot of low end and I ended up putting it in the rear corner that loads with the most bass and it was the perfect spot. All I ended up with behind the mains where 24x24 4" open back bass traps and it was the perfect balance at 18 inches off the floor of course.


The room isn't wide enough to get the shifters in the corners. Jeff recommended not putting them any closer than 2 feet from the front wall. They are a little more than 4' out from the front wall and about a foot in front of the mains....but not a whole lot of flexibility to move them much. I moved the mains a little wider(as is in the pic) and Audyssey picked them up at 150Hz, then I moved the seat back a foot and Audyssey picked them up at 120Hz. That's where I am right now. I could move the mains back closer together but wonder if I should try and keep as close to an equ triangle as I can??? The horn of the mains is above the top of the shifters so the side panels should be picking most of that up. I don't think I'm getting anything too nasty off of the shifters. I'm going to remove the corner tri traps and rerun Audyssey just for giggles.


So I removed all the tri traps and Audyssey crossed the mains at 90 this time. Audyssey had crossed them at 120Hz with the setup in the picture. The Omni graph with the tri traps in place and mains crossed at 120Hz is flatter than without the tri traps and mains crossed at 90Hz..

-Kevin

Epson 5020UB 1080p 3LCD projector

Screen Innovations Black Diamond Zero Edge 1.4 110" 16:9

Marantz AV8801 pre/pro

Wyred4Sound 5-channel amp

Oppo BDP-105

Darbee Darblet

JTR 3TX LCRs

JTR Single8 HT-LP surrounds

twin JTR Orbit Shifter LF subwoofers

GIK Acoustic room treatments

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post #6869 of 12660 Old 07-15-2013, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

Audiofan-

Could you post a picture of your HT set-up? It sounds like it is a very capable and well designed set-up.


I wouldn't go as far as saying its well designed, but it is capable. After many hours of tuning ( placement of seating speakers) and selection of proper gear cabling to my own personal taste, I've got it to where it gives me and the wife hours on end of outstanding movie and musical performance , it was a labor we did together and its to our liking, not the best but I'm proud of my work wink.gif I'm in need of a new camera but here's a side stage and two other so so ones!









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post #6870 of 12660 Old 07-16-2013, 08:18 AM
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Still considering the AV8801 as I can get a good deal on it (60% of MSRP), but will I hear any noticeable sound quality improvement?

I'm really happy with my current system and it sounds awesome:
1. Preamp: Onkyo TX-NR905 as a preamp, set up with Audyssey off
2. ATI AT2007, 200+ watts full bandwidth, into 7 channels at once (300 watts for a 4 ohm load, all channels driven)
3. Speakers: Klipsch RF-83 mains, RC-64 center, RS-62 sides, RF-82 rears, two RT-12d subs

I know when I added the amp and the second sub, I could physical hear an improvement both times (even my wife noticed an improvement). If I will for sure hear an improvement with the preamp, I'm sold, but I'm really skeptical having never owned a preamp.

Also, if XT32 is as bad as MultiEQ XT was, I will have to turn it off, which sucks as it can help the subs. Folks on here are going to say I'm crazy, but the Audyssey XT ruined the sound coming from my main speakers. It lowered the high frequency amplitude on the main speakers and I even measured this with RoomEQ and a calibrated mic.

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