Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 232 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6931 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensui View Post

Same setup as you on the amp/preamp side (8800+A51), I notice the exact same thing as you a couple times when I leave the preamp idle for an amount of time (never measured how long). My trigger's been doing fine....though now I have it running through a niles AC-3 as an intermediate to turn on some cooling at the same time when I turn on the marantz. Are you sure it's not a zone issue? The triggers don't work properly when different zones are still on (noticed this while programming my harmony).

Check the trigger setting it sounds as though its going into a stand by mode! Also check the setup on the A51 i have the A21/8801 , be sure its in the right mode and sensitivity is correct.
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post #6932 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Check your trigger setup and make sure they are set for Zone 1.
I had Trigger 1 fail to provide the proper voltage.
Do you have a volt meter to check the voltage?

- Rich

It's set for Zone 1 and I get about 11 volts, which should be enough to trigger the amp. The no-audio issue is more pressing for me!

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post #6933 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensui View Post

Same setup as you on the amp/preamp side (8800+A51), I notice the exact same thing as you a couple times when I leave the preamp idle for an amount of time (never measured how long). My trigger's been doing fine....though now I have it running through a niles AC-3 as an intermediate to turn on some cooling at the same time when I turn on the marantz. Are you sure it's not a zone issue? The triggers don't work properly when different zones are still on (noticed this while programming my harmony).

Did you ever resolve the idle problem?

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post #6934 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I set all my receivers on the relative scale, so I am not sure what the "70's" equates out to on it, but I am willing to bet it is pretty close to reference. This is reason I like the relative scale, as you know if youre speakers are set to 75dB's after audyssey, that you are listening at "reference" when the dial is at 0.0 where you would expect 105dB peaks in the surround and main speakers, and 115dB peaks in the subs.

How does one do that with the 8801?

Set the audio volume Scale setting to either "0-98" or "=79.5dB - 18.0dB"
"0-98" is the default and often is called the "absolute" scale.
"=79.5dB - 18.0dB" is favored by many long-time Denon and Marantz owners and often is called the "relative" scale.
(Note that the second "-" is a hyphen meaning "to", not a minus sign. I.e. that setting will cause the volume level display to range from -79.5 to +18.0.)

After calibration, a value of 80 on the absolute scale corresponds to 0 on the relative scale, which is "reference level".

"Scale" is an option in the Audio Setup menu. See page 119 of the owner's manual to see how to get into the menu. Page 123 describes the two Scale options and other settings.

Briefly, press Zone Select to switch to the "Main" zone, press Setup, use the up/down cursor controls to reach the "Volume" item.

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post #6935 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Set the audio volume Scale setting to either "0-98" or "=79.5dB - 18.0dB"
"0-98" is the default and often is called the "absolute" scale.
"=79.5dB - 18.0dB" is favored by many long-time Denon and Marantz owners and often is called the "relative" scale.
(Note that the second "-" is a hyphen meaning "to", not a minus sign. I.e. that setting will cause the volume level display to range from -79.5 to +18.0.)

After calibration, a value of 80 on the absolute scale corresponds to 0 on the relative scale, which is "reference level".

"Scale" is an option in the Audio Setup menu. See page 119 of the owner's manual to see how to get into the menu. Page 123 describes the two Scale options and other settings.

Briefly, press Zone Select to switch to the "Main" zone, press Setup, use the up/down cursor controls to reach the "Volume" item.

Thanks Selden. And that's all you have to do is change the setting in the menu? You don't need to do anythng else prior to running Audyssey etc?

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post #6936 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 02:05 PM
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Selden beat me to it. but no, you don't need to do anything else other than change that setting. It does not affect the speakers at all, just how the volume is read out. Do this and see where you are listening now. I usually do movies somewhere between -8 and 0 depending on the movie.

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post #6937 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bwv1080 View Post

It's set for Zone 1 and I get about 11 volts, which should be enough to trigger the amp. The no-audio issue is more pressing for me!

That should be enough but it is not 12 volts.
I wonder if these are failing.
Have you tried the other triggers to see if they work better.
A trigger should never go low when the unit is on.

I had to send mine in for repair when trigger 1 dropped to 9 volts.

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post #6938 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

That should be enough but it is not 12 volts.
I wonder if these are failing.
Have you tried the other triggers to see if they work better.
A trigger should never go low when the unit is on.

I had to send mine in for repair when trigger 1 dropped to 9 volts.

- Rich

Neither one works. mad.gif

What was the turnaround time for the repair?

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post #6939 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bwv1080 View Post

Did you ever resolve the idle problem?

IMO I've noticed it only twice and that's because I was playing around with something without sound ouput and a simple power cycle fixed it.....nothing's perfect in the AV world I've learned to accept small quirks from time to time. The preamp has been an absolute joy for music for movies thus far with my setup. I saw you measured 11V on the trigger....I think the trigger is just fine and that's probably an equipment/calibration issue of the multimeter you're using.....if it read 10v or under I'd be more concerned. I think you should try some other tests like manually turning your A51 on and off with a 12V battery before thinking it's the 8801....otherwise I strongly suggest you make sure your zones are all off except for the main zone when you put into standby and on.....that was what I discovered during harmony programming.

The only issue I haven't been able to solve and I haven't put any effort since I don't use those functions at all is the network issue. When I put the 8801 on my network, it knocks out all the wired components because IMO it seems to act as some kind of DHCP server and it confuses my other router/network because of 2 DHCP servers.....it has something to do with the fact that the 8801 acts as a unmanaged switch. I haven't really cared enough since I could always bridge something to update the firmware when I need and I don't use the IP controls on the preamp at all......much less the internet radio stuff.
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post #6940 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwv1080 View Post

Neither one works. mad.gif

What was the turnaround time for the repair?

From the A51 Manual (If you have that amp):
Quote:
DC Trigger Requirements
+9 Vdc to +12 Vdc, 2 mA

If you are using a Parasound make sure the toggle is down for the trigger.
If properly set with the AV8801 set on mute, plugging in the trigger cable and removing it should power toggle immediately.

- Rich

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post #6941 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 03:22 PM
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Yes, the trigger switch is down, and It does trigger once when I plug it in, but that's it. When I get a chance, I'll measure the amperage.

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post #6942 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 03:34 PM
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Mine work but I needed to turn off all triggers for those inputs I did not use and make sure zones were off when turning off. Both triggers . One for my Outlaw 7500 and the other for my Panamax surge protector power switch. I run my Bryston 3 channel amp from there.
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post #6943 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 03:54 PM
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Sorry, I thought you meant you heard a hum through the speakers (which is very common). Yeah, any transformer can hum. You can always hear it, especially if you put your ear up to it. If you heard it from across the room, that's annoying. It sounds like maybe it wasn't tightly wound causing vibration. Sometimes you can put lacquer over the windings and/or circuit components to quieten them. Any electronics parts place has the lacquer.
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

It was not a ground loop I tried disconnecting everything and using a cheater plug.
It was transformer hum which may be related to the quality of the power in my house.

Can't an Isolation transformer also hum?

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post #6944 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 04:33 PM
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OK, here's another issue with my 8801 (or maybe my Oppo?). When I set my Oppo 105 to Split A/V, so that HDMI 1 out goes to one input (HDMI 3 on the 8801, which defaults to the BluRay button on the remote) and and HDMI 2 out goes to HDMI 6 (AUX 2 on the remote), I don't get any audio when I select the assigned BluRay input. Is there some way to have both HDMI inputs active at the same time? How else would one get both image and sound using the Split option? I get an image and sound only when I use AUX 2, but then I think I'm not getting the optimized video image since uses the Oppo's HMDI 2 output). I can only get an image with the BluRay input if I use the DUAL video setting on the Oppo, but then the 8801 turns DSD audio from SACDs to PCM! Help!!! (Most of the time I use the analog 7 ch-in for SACDs, but I'd like the option of DSD on occasion.)

Obviously, I hope someone who has both an Oppo 105 (or any Oppo model that allows Split/Dual HDMI outputs) and a Marantz 8801 replies!

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post #6945 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 05:18 PM
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The split option is not intended nor does it work with one Avr . HDMI 1 from the Oppo should go directly to your display. The HDMI2 output should go to the HDMI input for Blu Ray input in the 8801 usually 3. You can change the assignments of the input as you want in the assignments menu in 8801.

The Oppo Manual describes this well as does the online FAQ for split .
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post #6946 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Sorry, I thought you meant you heard a hum through the speakers (which is very common). Yeah, any transformer can hum. You can always hear it, especially if you put your ear up to it. If you heard it from across the room, that's annoying. It sounds like maybe it wasn't tightly wound causing vibration. Sometimes you can put lacquer over the windings and/or circuit components to quieten them. Any electronics parts place has the lacquer.

Not a problem.
I could hear it from my seated position. I think the wood floor, open credenza, and wall in back conspired to beam it at me.
Also, My Outlaw 7500 had no hum issue.

I ended up with a Parasound A51 and there is no hum issue. They encase their transformers in epoxy.
That did the trick smile.gif

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post #6947 of 12750 Old 07-17-2013, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

The split option is not intended nor does it work with one Avr . HDMI 1 from the Oppo should go directly to your display. The HDMI2 output should go to the HDMI input for Blu Ray input in the 8801 usually 3. You can change the assignments of the input as you want in the assignments menu in 8801.

The Oppo Manual describes this well as does the online FAQ for split .

Ah, that makes sense. (I actually feel rather stupid...)

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post #6948 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 07:43 AM
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I know my made in Japan Onkyo TX-NR905 has a case around the toroidal transformer. The case Onkyo uses is probably there as an additional precaution to minimize any potential vibrations. ATI winds their own transformers in house (you can see a power point of their factory at their site). If you still have the ATI 3000, I'd call ATI and see what they can do.

PS: your A51 is an awesome amp too!
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Not a problem.
I could hear it from my seated position. I think the wood floor, open credenza, and wall in back conspired to beam it at me.
Also, My Outlaw 7500 had no hum issue.

I ended up with a Parasound A51 and there is no hum issue. They encase their transformers in epoxy.
That did the trick smile.gif

- Rich

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post #6949 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 07:53 AM
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Also, measure the resistance of the A51's trigger circuit (with nothing connected). Let us know what that is too. If it's a dead short or somthing (shouldn't be), you could be overloading the AV8801's trigger circuit.

After you get this resistance, I would also check the voltage of the AV8801's trigger circuit while connected to the A51. Then you can use Ohms law to find the current: I=V/R

That is unless you can measure dc current using your volt meter. Some can do this. It is very important that you measure the circuit under load though, as I doubt the trigger voltage is an ideal voltage source. It will sag significantly as the load (e.g. resistance) is increased.
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Originally Posted by bwv1080 View Post

Yes, the trigger switch is down, and It does trigger once when I plug it in, but that's it. When I get a chance, I'll measure the amperage.

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post #6950 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

I know my made in Japan Onkyo TX-NR905 has a case around the toroidal transformer. The case Onkyo uses is probably there as an additional precaution to minimize any potential vibrations. ATI winds their own transformers in house (you can see a power point of their factory at their site). If you still have the ATI 3000, I'd call ATI and see what they can do.

PS: your A51 is an awesome amp too!

I returned it. ATI tested it and said it was not noticable from a few fet away on their carpeted room, so I assume that meant it was withing spec.
Could be as designed, could be something about my power.

Everything else about the amp was great.

I am thrilled with my A51. It is sweet sounding and powerful enough to drive my Salons. smile.gif

- Rich

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post #6951 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 12:12 PM
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I think there needs to be a firmware fix for the triggers . I do not think the erratic behavior is only due to hardware failures. The zones need to looked at as well. Turning off zones via the remote would be very useful.
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post #6952 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

I think there needs to be a firmware fix for the triggers . I do not think the erratic behavior is only due to hardware failures. The zones need to looked at as well. Turning off zones via the remote would be very useful.

My unit is performing as should and my zones have never turned back on once they were shut off manually via the front panel. this is either user error or hardware related .
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post #6953 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 12:35 PM
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I have a couple question for any owners who have both the AV8801 prepro and the MM8077 amplifier: which component has the warmer operating temperature? Are any of you stacking the combo?

I was looking at my equipment shelf and wondering how I might arrange the combo on it...

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post #6954 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 12:48 PM
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No problems with my 8801. If you have istuff the Deremote app works well and you can turn zones on and off with it.
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post #6955 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Also, measure the resistance of the A51's trigger circuit (with nothing connected). Let us know what that is too. If it's a dead short or somthing (shouldn't be), you could be overloading the AV8801's trigger circuit.

After you get this resistance, I would also check the voltage of the AV8801's trigger circuit while connected to the A51. Then you can use Ohms law to find the current: I=V/R

That is unless you can measure dc current using your volt meter. Some can do this. It is very important that you measure the circuit under load though, as I doubt the trigger voltage is an ideal voltage source. It will sag significantly as the load (e.g. resistance) is increased.

Anything besides voltage and amperage is a bit beyond my ability level!

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post #6956 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 01:14 PM
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My zones seem to me on when I have not asked them to do so.

I will use Deremote to turn them off. thanks.
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post #6957 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 03:17 PM
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my 8077 is on top of the 8801 i had to put a cooler guys fan on it, now its cool. i only have 1.5 in of space above the amp,it was shutting down before i put the fan on top. i have a glass shelf with rubber feet between amp and pre, all is good.
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post #6958 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 09:01 PM
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Question to all: I just ordered the av8801 and the mm8077 and will be driving martin logan motion series speakers that are rated at 4ohms. I currently own the marantz sr7007 and have not had any issues with shutoff. I know the mm8077 is not rated for 4 ohm speakers but will it be ok driving my speakers? I have not found a solid answer to this. When I asked Marantz they said that they did not want to go through the extra work to get it rated at 4ohms. I just want to make sure that I won't have any issues driving my ht! Thanks

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post #6959 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

Question to all: I just ordered the av8801 and the mm8077 and will be driving martin logan motion series speakers that are rated at 4ohms. I currently own the marantz sr7007 and have not had any issues with shutoff. I know the mm8077 is not rated for 4 ohm speakers but will it be ok driving my speakers? I have not found a solid answer to this. When I asked Marantz they said that they did not want to go through the extra work to get it rated at 4ohms. I just want to make sure that I won't have any issues driving my ht! Thanks

It drove my M&K speakers adequately and they are rated at 4 ohms. That being said, the amp is overpriced (at MSRP) for what it delivers. Better bargains can be had with an Outlaw, Emotiva, or ATI. I'm currently using Parasound amps and have no plans to upgrade to anything else. When I reviewed the 8077, I compared it to an Anthem PVA7 and found that PVA7 to have more power and a more refined sound by comparison. Let your own ears be the judge though.

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post #6960 of 12750 Old 07-18-2013, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

Question to all: I just ordered the av8801 and the mm8077 and will be driving martin logan motion series speakers that are rated at 4ohms. I currently own the marantz sr7007 and have not had any issues with shutoff. I know the mm8077 is not rated for 4 ohm speakers but will it be ok driving my speakers? I have not found a solid answer to this. When I asked Marantz they said that they did not want to go through the extra work to get it rated at 4ohms. I just want to make sure that I won't have any issues driving my ht! Thanks

In general, so long your'e not listening at loud volume then you should be fine. The MM8077 does run hot and though it has an internal fan to cool it down, it's best not to keep them in the enclosed cabinet if possible because even the AV8801 also runs very warm to the touch, a great winter heater alternative biggrin.gif
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Ken Kreisel Dxd 12012 Subwoofer , Marantz Av8801 , Receivers Amplifiers , Audyssey , Integra
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