Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 268 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread
db029936's Avatar db029936 09:14 PM 09-08-2013
lol

db029936's Avatar db029936 09:25 PM 09-08-2013
Basically i wondered why the owners manual would say not to do it when it is practised quite often. You can buy adaptors of all sorts for XLR to RCA. I realize that ther would be no benefits, but I have these cables already and only want to change the one end to RCA to fit onto my NAD M25. As for women, well they know their traits, as we know ours. Heh heh.
discodol's Avatar discodol 08:01 AM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

Can those of you who installed high and or wide channel speakers comment on how much it added to your movie watching experience? Thinking of adding wides but would have to fish walls to do it.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/4620#post_23156517

If I had to go with one or the other I would go with the highs, but again it all depends on how the speakers sound in your room.

I had to fish everything except the front left/center/right speakers including installing the surrounds in the ceiling.

If you have access it is so worth the effort and expense.

This is how the room looks now since installing the electric screen to the ceiling and changing to the darkened colors to help control the light.



Having experienced how great 11 channels sound I can't see going back to any fewer channels no matter what size the room.

Happy listening and watching!!
discodol's Avatar discodol 08:12 AM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

I'll be joining the owners club next week when my unit is delivered to my local dealer. I was able to get a very fair price so that's a bonus. I traded my Integra 80.1 for an 80.2, my 80.2 developed the "no sound" bug so I've decided to move on. I've heard the Marantz is very good for music so that was a strong selling point to me.

You will be so glad you did!!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/7170#post_23571481

The 8801 is fantastic for listening in stereo from good old stereo records to FLAC files and CDs!

Now add as many speakers as possible for movies, stir, and let the fun begin!!!
markrubin's Avatar markrubin 08:25 AM 09-09-2013
IR/ IP and serial commands and protocols for Marantz AV8801

IR and IP/serial codes for 8801: Marantz_AV_SR_NR_IR_CODE_V05.xls 1897k .xls file

serial and IP protocols for 8801: Marantz_AV_SR_NR_PROTOCOL_V04 (1).xls 391k .xls file
Attached: Marantz_AV_SR_NR_IR_CODE_V05.xls (1.85 MB)  Marantz_AV_SR_NR_PROTOCOL_V04 (1).xls (391.0 KB) 
g_bartman's Avatar g_bartman 09:14 AM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

You will be so glad you did!!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/7170#post_23571481

The 8801 is fantastic for listening in stereo from good old stereo records to FLAC files and CDs!

Now add as many speakers as possible for movies, stir, and let the fun begin!!!

Thanks my man. It should arrive on Thursday. Speaking of "as many speakers as possible, tell me what you think. My main speakers ar 6' tall, my ceiling is 7.5'. The only space I could install high or wide speaker would be on a soffit that runs along the ceiling about 4' in front if the screen and 2' in front of my mains. Thinking of doing wides but not sure if it would be worth the expense of a 2 channel amp and fishing the soffit. I would use some Klipsch flat panel speakers I already have.
audiofan1's Avatar audiofan1 12:50 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/4620#post_23156517

If I had to go with one or the other I would go with the highs, but again it all depends on how the speakers sound in your room.

I had to fish everything except the front left/center/right speakers including installing the surrounds in the ceiling.

If you have access it is so worth the effort and expense.

This is how the room looks now since installing the electric screen to the ceiling and changing to the darkened colors to help control the light.



Having experienced how great 11 channels sound I can't see going back to any fewer channels no matter what size the room.

Happy listening and watching!!

Nice setup wink.gif
WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD 12:53 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/4620#post_23156517
This is how the room looks now since installing the electric screen to the ceiling and changing to the darkened colors to help control the light.
nice set-up! Are those Monitor Audio Platinum-Series? Or Gold-GX Series?

I'm still using my full (5.1) Gold-GS Series, love their speakers. Drooling for a set of Gold-GX or Platinum Series.

Also I'm building a similiar configuration- employing, both, a wall-mounted flat-screen combined with a projector and electronic retracting screen. What brand/size screen are you using there?

I'm using an Elite brand VMAX2 Series screen (VMAX92H)- essentially a 92in diagonal screen. Also using an Epson Elite 3020 projector. I'm exited to get everything installed.
discodol's Avatar discodol 01:18 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

nice set-up! Are those Monitor Audio Platinum-Series? Or Gold-GX Series?

I'm still using my full (5.1) Gold-GS Series, love their speakers. Drooling for a set of Gold-GX or Platinum Series.

Also I'm building a similiar configuration- employing, both, a wall-mounted flat-screen combined with a projector and electronic retracting screen. What brand/size screen are you using there?

I'm using an Elite brand VMAX2 Series screen (VMAX92H)- essentially a 92in diagonal screen. Also using an Epson Elite 3020 projector. I'm exited to get everything installed.

The speakers are the PL300s, I started out with the PL200s but after a few months I could not stand how much better the PL300s sounded so I upgraded. The center is the PLC350 which sounds great with the other two Platinums.

The screen is the Stewart Studio Tek 130 G3 vertical masking Classic that gives me 125" diagonal for 2.35 and 100" diagonal for 1.78 when the masking drops. We sit about 10' from the screen so the picture from the Sony 4K 1000ES is totally awesome!!

With the vertical masking I got the biggest image possible given the height restriction I had between the ceiling and the top of the center channel speaker using only one screen.

Sounds like you have a great setup in the works, please post some photos when you are done!
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 01:24 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by db029936 View Post

Has anyone tried the xlr out to rca in on an amp. The owners manual states not to do this, yet everywhere I read, it's ok to join pins 1 and 3 to ground and use 2 as hot. On another note, anyone offer any opinions on phono SQ? Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by db029936 View Post

I want to use the balance because: I got long balanced neutrik/ mogami cables already, the connections are more secure at least on the xlr side, and to lessen the amount of conjestion on the back panel. So, did anyone listen to the phono section yet? And why a question answer for a question? only women do that.

Haha, that's good smile.gif I am going to say the reason they suggest against it is they give you both options, and as you will see the output voltage of one over the other and impedance of the connections are different. This holds true for other adapters too, but it is a compromise at best to use them, especially given you have the option of both with the 8801. When others don't have a choice, they simply have to work with what they've got smile.gif
discodol's Avatar discodol 01:51 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

Thanks my man. It should arrive on Thursday. Speaking of "as many speakers as possible, tell me what you think. My main speakers ar 6' tall, my ceiling is 7.5'. The only space I could install high or wide speaker would be on a soffit that runs along the ceiling about 4' in front if the screen and 2' in front of my mains. Thinking of doing wides but not sure if it would be worth the expense of a 2 channel amp and fishing the soffit. I would use some Klipsch flat panel speakers I already have.

Since you already have the speakers why not give it a try experimenting with different locations and switching between high and wide to see if you can tell much of a difference between the two before installing.

If you like the sound but not the look if the soffit is tall enough to mount a pair of ceiling mount 6" speakers that might be all you need since the high/wide are effect channels and don't require as much horsepower as the front channels.

Or if the soffit is not tall enough you could use ceiling mount speakers that have a slant mount like those seen here http://www.harmonyinteriors.com/news/bland-to-family-theater-basement.php to direct the sound to your sweet spot.

As far as the two channel amp goes since it is not driving primary speakers it does not need to be as powerful/expensive as your other amp/s.

If you can post a picture of your space some other suggestions might bubble up.
bigguyca's Avatar bigguyca 03:24 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by db029936 View Post

Basically i wondered why the owners manual would say not to do it when it is practised quite often. You can buy adaptors of all sorts for XLR to RCA. I realize that ther would be no benefits, but I have these cables already and only want to change the one end to RCA to fit onto my NAD M25. As for women, well they know their traits, as we know ours. Heh heh.

Concerning XLR to RCA. My understanding:

In many XLR to RCA adaptors or cables XLR pin 2 (hot +) is connected to the center RCA pin (hot) - so far so good.

The XLR pin 1 (ground) and XLR pin 3 (hot -) are often connected together and connected to the ground on the RCA end. I read somewhere that the output impedance of the Marantz 8801 is about 100 to 200 Ohms per leg on XLR outputs. Each of these output legs likely expects to "see" 10,000 Ohms or more for input impedance on the device it is driving, which is typically an amplifier. With the XLR (hot -) output connected to ground it is only seeing 100 to 200 Ohms to ground - it's own output impedance.

What does this mean? Let's use an output of 1 Volt from 100 Ohms from the 8801 as an example. Such an output level will drive a typical amplifier to an output of 100 Watts or so. If the XLR output sees 10,100 ohms is delivers approximately 1 Volt/10,100 Ohms or .0001 Amp or .1 mA, which isn't much current. If it sees 100 Ohms it delivers 1/100 or .01 Amp or 10 mA (or 14 mA peak) which is a lot more current. Long-term delivery of this much current may cause reliability problems due to heating. I don't know the design of the HDAM circuits and the board layouts used in the 8801, and even if I did I'm not an expert in circuit design, but adding load and heat to each of HDAM modules can't help sound quality or longevity.

If all 13 output modules on 8801 were working into such a grounded load the total current in the pin 3 circuits could go from say .0013 Amps (into 10,000 Ohms) to .13 Amps. This would put an added load on the power supply and perhaps other components.

The lab tests of preamp outputs in Stereophile typically show much worse results into low impedances such as 600 ohms, than much higher impedances. This shows the strain a lower impedance load puts on these circuits. It is desirable to have a low output impedance (100 Ohms or less for example) from a preamp level circuit for a variety of reasons, so Marantz has done the right thing here, but a lower output impedance does generate potential problems if users make use of the equipment in a way for which it wasn't intended.

Other ideas...?

Jeff
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 03:58 PM 09-09-2013
I think that puts it in perfect order. Excellent post, Jeff
WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD 06:01 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

The speakers are the PL300s, I started out with the PL200s but after a few months I could not stand how much better the PL300s sounded so I upgraded. The center is the PLC350 which sounds great with the other two Platinums.

The screen is the Stewart Studio Tek 130 G3 vertical masking Classic that gives me 125" diagonal for 2.35 and 100" diagonal for 1.78 when the masking drops. We sit about 10' from the screen so the picture from the Sony 4K 1000ES is totally awesome!!

With the vertical masking I got the biggest image possible given the height restriction I had between the ceiling and the top of the center channel speaker using only one screen
very cool, thanks. Yeah I would opt for the PL300's if it were my choice as well.

My configuration will have 9.2in throw (projector lens-to-screen). Viewing distance will be between 8ft and 9ft. My room is small (11ft W X 11ft L X 8ft H). Rear edge of projector will be positioned 3.0in forward of rear-wall. The VMAX2 screen unit will be hung such that screen edge will be positioned approx 1.0ft out from front wall (to clear Pioneer Elite Kuro plasma flat-screen). I'm really scrunched-in in terms of overall space.

What are you driving your Platinum series with? I'm using a single Parasound Halo A51 (250W X 5) with the AV8801.

This is my first projector system, so I'm very eager to have initial experience.
db029936's Avatar db029936 06:14 PM 09-09-2013
Thanks Jeff. Even you are wrong, it is a good line of ******** that I'm going to believe.That's what I like, explanations. I'll stick with my RCAs and use the XLRs for my 2 channel sub amp, which is a pro design and currently works excellent with my soon to be gone 7005. On another note, anyone used dipoles for the height channels. I've got these wee Paradigm ADP170 v5 speakers that would probably compliment my Paradigm Reference system? Thanks again Jeff..Dave
jt-hifi's Avatar jt-hifi 06:56 PM 09-09-2013
Hi Folks,

I got my AV8801 and Emotiva XPR1 monoblocks a couple of weeks ago and have run the Audyssey setup several times. Each time, the calibrations would read between -12 and -8 across all speaker levels. As it doesn't sound as sensitive or punchy, I'd manually adjust the levels close to 0s but still maintain the relative level differences between speakers. It sounds better but a bit on the sharp side. When I copied the Audyssey Flat to the Graphic EQ, the bands between 1K and 16K are way high +4, +2.5, +2, +6 compared to lower bands which are along zero and below. I still prefer the Audyssey mode than any other listening modes.

Here are my questions:
1) Why do I get such low speaker level calibration? Is it because my room requires significant corrections? See room details below
2) Does manually adjusting the speaker levels affect sonic delays and quaility?

I have my setup in the family room with the following dimension details and pictures to help depict the dimensions:
Dimension: 25'(W) x 17'(D) x 21'(H)
Openings to adjacent sunroom, kitchen, 2-story foyer and living room.









As you can see, the family is large and has no acoustic treatments. My main listening position is the center of the couch which backs directly against the wall which might present the sound reflection problem. I believe the room problem is preventing my setup from unleashing its full potential.

Would you recommend:
1) Getting acoustic panels for all the walls?
2) Getting a throw rug to be placed in the middle of the room? (family has lots allergies and would avoid rugs, possible)
3) Rearranging the speaker placements?
4) Any other suggestions?

I'd appreciate any advice from you experts out there. Thanks in advance for your help!

-JT

Family room:
Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro
2 X Emotiva XPR1 1000W Monoblock Amp
Oppo 105 BluRay Player
2 x B&W 802 Diamond Speakers
4 x Infinity Small Speakers (Surround sides and back)
2 x SVS PB12+ Ultra 500W Subwoofer
65" Panasonic Plasma TV
jt-hifi's Avatar jt-hifi 07:07 PM 09-09-2013
Hi Folks,

I have been connecting both my SVS PB12+ subs to AV8801 Pre-outs FL and FR RCA each, thinking I would get the stereo effect for the bass and not have to mess with bass management too much. I use the volume, crossover and phase controls of the sub instead of connecting to the SW connections and let the pre/pro control the subs. The reason why I do this is that it the subs would sound very soft and sometimes not even getting the signals for some sound tracks when connected directly to pre/pro SWs.

Questions:
1) Is there a download side in this setup vs connecting to pre/pro SWs?
2) As the signals are meant for FL and FR, am I limiting the frequency range the subs receive? Eg, for certain sound tracks where the it might push low to 25Hz or below range, it might send to FL and FR hence, my subs don't get a chance to play it at these lower frequencies. My guess is no but want you opinion.
3) DO I lose any signal strength having RCA FL&FR Pre-outs connected to the subs and XLR FL&FR connected to a pair monoblock amps?


I sometimes would go back to connecting the subs to the pre/pro SWs. Is there any downside with setting LFE+Main and 120Hz crossover? It tends to "wake" the subs more often but they still sound very soft.

Thanks,
JT


Family room:
Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro
2 X Emotiva XPR1 1000W Monoblock Amp
1 X Emotiva XPA5 5x200W Amp
Oppo 105 BluRay Player
2 x B&W 802 Diamond Speakers
4 x Infinity Small Speakers (Surround sides and back)
2 x SVS PB12+ Ultra 500W Subwoofer
65" Panasonic Plasma TV

Basement:
Denon 5308 Receiver
Denon 5900 DVD Player
B&W Nautilus 802
B&W DM220i as Surround Sides
Hsu VTF-3 MK3 350W Subwoofer
50" Panasonic Plasma TV
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb 07:14 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt-hifi View Post

Hi Folks,

I got my AV8801 and Emotiva XPR1 monoblocks a couple of weeks ago and have run the Audyssey setup several times. Each time, the calibrations would read between -12 and -8 across all speaker levels. As it doesn't sound as sensitive or punchy, I'd manually adjust the levels close to 0s but still maintain the relative level differences between speakers. It sounds better but a bit on the sharp side. When I copied the Audyssey Flat to the Graphic EQ, the bands between 1K and 16K are way high +4, +2.5, +2, +6 compared to lower bands which are along zero and below. I still prefer the Audyssey mode than any other listening modes.

Here are my questions:
1) Why do I get such low speaker level calibration? Is it because my room requires significant corrections? See room details below
2) Does manually adjusting the speaker levels affect sonic delays and quaility?

I have my setup in the family room with the following dimension details and pictures to help depict the dimensions:
Dimension: 25'(W) x 17'(D) x 21'(H)
Openings to adjacent sunroom, kitchen, 2-story foyer and living room.









As you can see, the family is large and has no acoustic treatments. My main listening position is the center of the couch which backs directly against the wall which might present the sound reflection problem. I believe the room problem is preventing my setup from unleashing its full potential.

Would you recommend:
1) Getting acoustic panels for all the walls?
2) Getting a throw rug to be placed in the middle of the room? (family has lots allergies and would avoid rugs, possible)
3) Rearranging the speaker placements?
4) Any other suggestions?

I'd appreciate any advice from you experts out there. Thanks in advance for your help!

-JT

Family room:
Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro
2 X Emotiva XPR1 1000W Monoblock Amp
Oppo 105 BluRay Player
2 x B&W 802 Diamond Speakers
4 x Infinity Small Speakers (Surround sides and back)
2 x SVS PB12+ Ultra 500W Subwoofer
65" Panasonic Plasma TV



First off welcome to the 8801club and that is a beautiful room and setup! It looks very challenging to get right though, I know some area rugs and wall treatments would help a bunch. I'm assuming this is mostly room related and with ceilings that high you have to treat your back wall and first reflection points, meaning side walls and that gorgeous floor smile.gif
Taking a better look your side wall by your right front is very far away and your window is alongside your left front. This looks like a challenge, but there are things you can do. Guys recommendations?
grasshoppers's Avatar grasshoppers 07:19 PM 09-09-2013
It would depend on how your Marantz is configured. When watching movies
There is a dedicated track for the LFE content (.1) so you
Might not be getting that content.

You are probably getting too much gain from your mono- blocks
Which is why your levels are set so low. This will also
Effect the signal from your subs, they are being overpowered
By the mains. It is not a good idea to manually raise the speaker
Levels. Address the issue.

You also have some very reflective surfaces which could cause
Issues. Audyssey should be able to correct that.

I would suggest to try and get the gain Down on the amps and
Connect the subs to the SW out jack. Review the Audyssey
Set-up guide carefully and re do the auto set-up
jmschnur's Avatar jmschnur 07:21 PM 09-09-2013
Yes this room will require a lot of work . Perhaps sharing your pictures with the consultants at GIK or another room treatment company would lead to constructive suggestion.
JoeMG's Avatar JoeMG 07:48 PM 09-09-2013
Does anyone know where to find the changelog for today's firmware update?
RichB's Avatar RichB 07:52 PM 09-09-2013
Jt-hifi,

You have a fine system and home.
My room is 33x15x12 with openings in the front and back.
I also have beams and other surfaces that break up the sound,

When, I first moved in, I did not have rugs in front and in back of my couch and the room sounded like a bathroom.
The rugs made a huge difference. So, I would start there.

I agree that may be a challengring room.

- Rich

P.S. keep an eye on the AV8801 on top of your amp. It may get hot.
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb 07:57 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMG View Post

Does anyone know where to find the changelog for today's firmware update?



If they didn't post it on post #1 of this thread they will soon I'm sure (and as always we all appreciate this!) I didn't know there was an update, I'll wait and see what it's for, I've learned not to jump on any update for a little while.
g_bartman's Avatar g_bartman 08:00 PM 09-09-2013


If you can post a picture of your space some other suggestions might bubble up.

Well I measured. The soffit is 7' in front of the screen, 4.5' in front of my mains. My seats are 13' from my mains if that matters.
jt-hifi's Avatar jt-hifi 08:23 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Jt-hifi,

You have a fine system and home.
My room is 33x15x12 with openings in the front and back.
I also have beams and other surfaces that break up the sound,

When, I first moved in, I did not have rugs in front and in back of my couch and the room sounded like a bathroom.
The rugs made a huge difference. So, I would start there.

I agree that may be a challengring room.

- Rich

P.S. keep an eye on the AV8801 on top of your amp. I may get hot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

First off welcome to the 8801club and that is a beautiful room and setup! It looks very challenging to get right though, I know some area rugs and wall treatments would help a bunch. I'm assuming this is mostly room related and with ceilings that high you have to treat your back wall and first reflection points, meaning side walls and that gorgeous floor smile.gif
Taking a better look your side wall by your right front is very far away and your window is alongside your left front. This looks like a challenge, but there are things you can do. Guys recommendations?

Rich, Comfynumb -

Thanks for your input.This room has been a challenge to me for the last decades. I went through McIntosh 501 paired with C200 "purist" with no room correction software, no tonal controls. It was a disaster, the bass was so thin that I had to get professional grade 64-band equalizers and professional studio DAC (Apogee) to try to correct the problem. Though the bass improved but I introduced significant noise floors to the system. I was so unhappy in the end I sold all of them when discovered by pure accident that my Denon 5308 sounded better than all the above in this challenging room. It indeed sounds like bathroom sometimes, with all that echo mad.gif

I have to say that the AV8801, Emotiva XPR1 and XPA5 combo is a significant improvement over the Denon 5308 but the room correction problem still needs to be fixed. I will bring the couch forward a bit and get the floor and wall treatments. Years ago the acoustic panels were really tacky looking hence my reservation in getting them. But now, they look rather decorative. Folks, any recommendation on wall treatments - acoustic panels - what kind, how thick, where to get them, etc. I'll be shopping for an area rug soon wink.gif

Thanks for your input, folks.
jmschnur's Avatar jmschnur 08:29 PM 09-09-2013
As I wrote before , look up GIK on the net, then give them a call.
Dave Vaughn's Avatar Dave Vaughn 08:31 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

As I wrote before , look up GIK on the net, then give them a call.

I concur with Him on this one. Also wouldn't hurt to add a rug to the room. Too many reflection points. I bet your slap echo in the room is very prevalent.
jmschnur's Avatar jmschnur 08:34 PM 09-09-2013
Perhaps several carpets
jt-hifi's Avatar jt-hifi 08:47 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

I concur with Him on this one. Also wouldn't hurt to add a rug to the room. Too many reflection points. I bet your slap echo in the room is very prevalent.

Yes, the slap or hand clap generates echo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

It would depend on how your Marantz is configured. When watching movies
There is a dedicated track for the LFE content (.1) so you
Might not be getting that content.

You are probably getting too much gain from your mono- blocks
Which is why your levels are set so low. This will also
Effect the signal from your subs, they are being overpowered
By the mains. It is not a good idea to manually raise the speaker
Levels. Address the issue.

You also have some very reflective surfaces which could cause
Issues. Audyssey should be able to correct that.

I would suggest to try and get the gain Down on the amps and
Connect the subs to the SW out jack. Review the Audyssey
Set-up guide carefully and re do the auto set-up

The .1 content comment makes sense, It didn't affect me much as I hardly watched movies but I'll hook them up to SW out jacks. I did try the SUB EQ HT from Audyssey, it didn't help much, speakers levels still extremely low. How do I get the gain down for my monoblocks?
Geronimo.USMC's Avatar Geronimo.USMC 08:57 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMG View Post

Does anyone know where to find the changelog for today's firmware update?
+1
Mine came in at 7 minutes.
Tags: Ken Kreisel Dxd 12012 Subwoofer , Marantz Av8801 , Receivers Amplifiers , Audyssey , Integra
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