Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 289 - AVS Forum
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post #8641 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 01:05 PM
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So with no independent digital output to the zones it's impossible for me to use my appletv outside while my wife watches a program in the living room (and no I don't want to buy an unreliable, hokey, $30 D to A contraption/workaround from monoprice)?

But there IS a dedicated 4th zone HDMI???

This is absolutely ridiculous in 2013...components (rightly so) continue to dump ANY analog outs and mutli-thousand dollar AVRs/PRE PROs refuse to properly support digital audio??? rolleyes.gifconfused.gif The idea that you pay over $3,000 for a "multi-zone" digital home theater processor and cannot send a digital input to 2 out of the 3 zones it "supports" is grossly unacceptable.

Oh well...perhaps 2014?

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post #8642 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Still no sub for me in Pure direct XLR CD input even with LFE+Main, my sub has an Auto on feature and it never even lights up wink.gif

Don't use the CD input.
Can you program your remote with the code to select the input source directly?

Otherwise, try using another HDMI input if you have one available.

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post #8643 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Still no sub for me in Pure direct XLR CD input even with LFE+Main, my sub has an Auto on feature and it never even lights up wink.gif

Don't use the CD input.
Can you program your remote with the code to select the input source directly?

Otherwise, try using another HDMI input if you have one available.

- RIch

Try changing the crossover frequency setting of the main speaker channels to a higher frequency.

LFE+MAINS uses the crossover frequency setting to decide which frequencies get copied from the main speaker channels to the subwoofer. If it's set too low, there'd be nothing to copy.

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post #8644 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

So with no independent digital output to the zones it's impossible for me to use my appletv outside while my wife watches a program in the living room (and no I don't want to buy an unreliable, hokey, $30 D to A contraption/workaround from monoprice)?

But there IS a dedicated 4th zone HDMI???

This is absolutely ridiculous in 2013...components (rightly so) continue to dump ANY analog outs and mutli-thousand dollar AVRs/PRE PROs refuse to properly support digital audio??? rolleyes.gifconfused.gif The idea that you pay over $3,000 for a "multi-zone" digital home theater processor and cannot send a digital input to 2 out of the 3 zones it "supports" is grossly unacceptable.

Oh well...perhaps 2014?

James

I suspect the design decision was made before the BD player manufacturers decided to eliminate analog audio outputs in their 2013 BDPs. All of the D&M equipment that came out in 2012, including the 7701 and 8801, have that same restriction. However, that restriction was effectively eliminated in the 2013 designs. I'm sure if an 8801 replacement comes out in 2014, it won't need the additional analog connections for Zone 2.

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post #8645 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Try changing the crossover frequency setting of the main speaker channels to a higher frequency.

LFE+MAINS uses the crossover frequency setting to decide which frequencies get copied from the main speaker channels to the subwoofer. If it's set too low, there'd be nothing to copy.

I run full range from the Oppo for 2/ch, but I use the when I do use the sub with my mains for 2/ch and dependending on the source material and mood , I'll either set them to small and cross them at 40 or 80hz or leave them in the large setting and engage the LFE+Main with different crossover setting, this is of course with Audyssey engaged. This is a far and in between option I use for 2/ch +sub. My go to remains Oppo 105 XLR 2/ch 8801 PUre Direct, no sub wink.gif
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post #8646 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 02:36 PM
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"Small" with a crossover frequency of 80Hz is the standard recommendation for the most accurate bass.

"Small" means "enable bass management" and diverts the low frequencies (the ones below the crossover frequency) from the "Small" speakers to the subwoofer(s) and the "LFE+MAINS" setting is irrelevant and ignored.

In contrast, if you leave the front speakers set to "Large" with "LFE+MAINS" enabled, the low frequencies (the ones below the crossover frequency) are not diverted away from the main (front) speakers, Instead, they're copied to the subwoofer(s). In other words, those low frequencies are emitted by both the main (front) speakers and the subwoofer at the same time, which results in "bloated bass." Some low frequencies will be accentuated and some cancelled. Which frequencies are affected in which way depends on the dimensions of your room, the frequency, the subwoofer and speaker locations and where in the room you're listening to them..

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post #8647 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

"Small" with a crossover frequency of 80Hz is the standard recommendation for the most accurate bass.

"Small" means "enable bass management" and diverts the low frequencies (the ones below the crossover frequency) from the "Small" speakers to the subwoofer(s) and the "LFE+MAINS" setting is irrelevant and ignored.

In contrast, if you leave the front speakers set to "Large" with "LFE+MAINS" enabled, the low frequencies (the ones below the crossover frequency) are not diverted away from the main (front) speakers, Instead, they're copied to the subwoofer(s). In other words, those low frequencies are emitted by both the main (front) speakers and the subwoofer at the same time, which results in "bloated bass." Some low frequencies will be accentuated and some cancelled. Which frequencies are affected in which way depends on the dimensions of your room, the frequency, the subwoofer and speaker locations and where in the room you're listening to them..

Thanks but I already understand that perfectly and it still remains a sometime preference as it can still sound good to my ears sometimes with or without the LFE+Main setting but I'll never call it wrong, For movies and multi/ch sacd I keep it clean and flat as the dedicated .1 channel negates the need wink.gif
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post #8648 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 05:40 PM
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An updated 8801by 2014? That seems awfully fast to me. How long was the AV7005 out before they replaced it?
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post #8649 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

While it is technically possible for Direct or Pure Direct to bypass the ADCs and then the 8801's output DACs when using the stereo analog inputs (either RCA or XLR) I have not seen any circuit diagrams. They would be needed in order to determine what actually is happening to the stereo signals. The descriptions of Direct and Pure Direct claim only that no processing is being done to the signal: no Audyssey and no bass management. Those descriptions say nothing whatsoever about whether the signal is being converted to digital. My personal guess is that the stereo inputs are always converted to digital by a pair of ADCs. It would simplify how LFE+MAINS works, for example. Then, of course, DACs are needed to convert the unprocessed digital signal to analog to drive the speakers.

Thanks a lot for your thorough explanation.
It is True that if I use the XLR Cables, then the signals being sent from the UD7007 into the AV8801 is the Analog Signals, and not the Digital, thus the UD7007's DAC had been used, Correct?
If I use PURE Mode and set just "LFE" for my Bass, instead of "LFE + MAINS", and connect my UD7007 and AV8801 with a pair of XLR Cables, then I could be using the UD7007 DAC and Neither the AV8801's CAD or DAC.
What would the Marantz have expected the users to set the listening mode at for the best possible Stereo listening experience when selling these pairs, the UD7007 and the AV8801, with their Balanced XLR connection capability; would there be any benefits to using the XLR Cables, if I use the Audyssey function then, because the signal is being switched from Digital to Analog in the UD7007 and again from Analog to Digital and then back from the Digital to Analog in the AV8801?
The more I know, the more it is confusing.
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post #8650 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 07:48 PM
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I'm a new owner of an 8801 and have a question. I ran audyssey for the first time and came up with odd crossovers. I have Von Schweikert audio LCR 3.5's and the VR 3.5 both are flat to 45hz. and -6db's at 30 hz. the TS3.5's are the same. The first time I ran Audyssey they put the LF at 90hz the center at 40hz and the front right and surrounds at 80hz, I thought that was odd so I ran it again with the fronts toed in a little more and the fronts read 120hz, center 40hz and surrounds at 80hz, The Onkyo set everything at 80hz so wonder what is up. I'm using a mic boom. My sub is a PSA XS15 in a 12'x15'x8' room. The amp is a CineNova Grande 5 channel. Albert is not one to lie about his numbers and it has been reviewed and these numbers are right. I have a carpet over wood floor ,heavy drapes.

My listening position is 12' from the mains and the mains are 12' apart. The Left main is 13" from the wall in a corner and the right main is 12" from the back wall, five inches from the right main is an opening to the hall/living area. I have poured over the Audyssey faqs. and they say you can raise the crossovers but not to lower. The 8801 is awesome I hear detail I have not heard before and my surrounds have come alive!

Any help is appreciated, pleeease!
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post #8651 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

An updated 8801by 2014? That seems awfully fast to me. How long was the AV7005 out before they replaced it?

The AV7005 was released in October 2010.
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post #8652 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by be83663 View Post

Thanks a lot for your thorough explanation.
It is True that if I use the XLR Cables, then the signals being sent from the UD7007 into the AV8801 is the Analog Signals, and not the Digital, thus the UD7007's DAC had been used, Correct?

Correct! As long as you're in the Pure mode ( I also recommend assigning the XLR's to the CD input)


If I use PURE Mode and set just "LFE" for my Bass, instead of "LFE + MAINS", and connect my UD7007 and AV8801 with a pair of XLR Cables, then I could be using the UD7007 DAC and Neither the AV8801's CAD or DAC.

With the 2/ch XLR input on the 8801 in Pure mode, the speakers (FR/FL) are only fullrange as you have bypassed the distance settings and bass management in the 8801 while in the PURE mode


What would the Marantz have expected the users to set the listening mode at for the best possible Stereo listening experience when selling these pairs, the UD7007 and the AV8801, with their Balanced XLR connection capability; would there be any benefits to using the XLR Cables, if I use the Audyssey function then, because the signal is being switched from Digital to Analog in the UD7007 and again from Analog to Digital and then back from the Digital to Analog in the AV8801?

There are those like myself who want to use the 8801 as stereo preamp as well as processor. I have an Oppo 105 and like the sound of the ESS Sabre dacs it has for stereo playback of DSD,CD and USB, therefore I use the 8801's XLR inputs assigned to the CD input in Pure mode thus using the 8801 as a 2/ch preamp while letting the Oppo 105 handle bass mngt and distance settings, this of course this means no Audyssey and its the way we want it for this particular application wink.gif So for Marantz to not offer a Source player that may sound better than the 8801 makes since, if its on par with the 8801 's sound quality and no better , well now it makes sense to feed the 8801 a digital signal from any source you like via hdmi , optical or coax and save some cash. This is why some will choose the Oppo 103 instead of the 105 smile.gif


The more I know, the more it is confusing.
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post #8653 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by labman1 View Post


I'm a new owner of an 8801 and have a question. I ran audyssey for the first time and came up with odd crossovers. I have Von Schweikert audio LCR 3.5's and the VR 3.5 both are flat to 45hz. and -6db's at 30 hz. the TS3.5's are the same. The first time I ran Audyssey they put the LF at 90hz the center at 40hz and the front right and surrounds at 80hz, I thought that was odd so I ran it again with the fronts toed in a little more and the fronts read 120hz, center 40hz and surrounds at 80hz, The Onkyo set everything at 80hz so wonder what is up. I'm using a mic boom. My sub is a PSA XS15 in a 12'x15'x8' room. The amp is a CineNova Grande 5 channel. Albert is not one to lie about his numbers and it has been reviewed and these numbers are right. I have a carpet over wood floor ,heavy drapes.

My listening position is 12' from the mains and the mains are 12' apart. The Left main is 13" from the wall in a corner and the right main is 12" from the back wall, five inches from the right main is an opening to the hall/living area. I have poured over the Audyssey faqs. and they say you can raise the crossovers but not to lower. The 8801 is awesome I hear detail I have not heard before and my surrounds have come alive!

Any help is appreciated, pleeease!

Made it ! good, be patient the guys will chime in wink.gif
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post #8654 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 09:46 PM
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An updated 8801by 2014? That seems awfully fast to me. How long was the AV7005 out before they replaced it?

2 years. It was released in 2010 and replaced in 2012 by the AV7701.

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post #8655 of 12321 Old 10-11-2013, 10:32 PM
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"I have an Oppo 105 and like the sound of the ESS Sabre dacs it has for stereo playback of DSD,CD and USB, therefore I use the 8801's XLR inputs assigned to the CD input in Pure mode thus using the 8801 as a 2/ch preamp while letting the Oppo 105 handle bass mngt and distance settings, this of course this means no Audyssey and its the way we want it for this particular application"

I have one more question to clarify regarding this statement of yours.
I suppose the ESS Sabre DACs are in your Oppo 105 then?
If so, did you mean that letting the DACs of the ESS Sabre is like letting it handle the Bass Management and Distance Settings; in other words, when you let your Blu-Ray/Music Player use its DACs, you are letting it "Handle the Bass Management and the Distance Settings", in AV8801's PURE Mode?
Thanks.
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post #8656 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by be83663 View Post

"I have an Oppo 105 and like the sound of the ESS Sabre dacs it has for stereo playback of DSD,CD and USB, therefore I use the 8801's XLR inputs assigned to the CD input in Pure mode thus using the 8801 as a 2/ch preamp while letting the Oppo 105 handle bass mngt and distance settings, this of course this means no Audyssey and its the way we want it for this particular application"

I have one more question to clarify regarding this statement of yours.
I suppose the ESS Sabre DACs are in your Oppo 105 then?
If so, did you mean that letting the DACs of the ESS Sabre is like letting it handle the Bass Management and Distance Settings; in other words, when you let your Blu-Ray/Music Player use its DACs, you are letting it "Handle the Bass Management and the Distance Settings", in AV8801's PURE Mode?
Thanks.

Your starting to get it, only thing is the ESS Sabre does is process the music be it usb,dsd or cd at there various sampling rates and a few other things , from there the Oppo sends an analog signal to the 8801's XLR's (which should now do now further signal conversion, as the Oppo already has done it) does nothing but provide a gain stage for volume to the amps.

Your Marantz should do the same, depending on what it designed to process and decode, to do a fair a/b on the fly comparison. If you have your players hdmi cable connected to Bluray input, set your Marantz player to bitstream for hdmi audio. Now select the the Bluray input and set to stereo. For the analog connection assign the XLR' to the CD input , select Pure mode , then play some familiar music and switch between the Bluray and Cd input as you will now have each dac at the touch of a button biggrin.gif
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post #8657 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 04:15 AM
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Hi all
On the PC if your saving the config file are you also saving the Xt32 calibration ?

Thanks

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post #8658 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 04:30 AM
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Hi Franin ! yes , Google Chrome makes it easy , I believe there is a sticky on it.
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post #8659 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 06:30 AM
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Hi Franin ! yes , Google Chrome makes it easy , I believe there is a sticky on it.

Thanks mate, tried to find sticky do you know where its located?

Thank you

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post #8660 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Your starting to get it, only thing is the ESS Sabre does is process the music be it usb,dsd or cd at there various sampling rates and a few other things , from there the Oppo sends an analog signal to the 8801's XLR's (which should now do now further signal conversion, as the Oppo already has done it) does nothing but provide a gain stage for volume to the amps.

Your Marantz should do the same, depending on what it designed to process and decode, to do a fair a/b on the fly comparison. If you have your players hdmi cable connected to Bluray input, set your Marantz player to bitstream for hdmi audio. Now select the the Bluray input and set to stereo. For the analog connection assign the XLR' to the CD input , select Pure mode , then play some familiar music and switch between the Bluray and Cd input as you will now have each dac at the touch of a button biggrin.gif

I would recommend connecting the the single ended RCA outhouse to the 7.1 analog inputs of the 8801. Since the standard inputs are likely put through an analog to digital conversion, you will be using both DACs.

If you have a programmable remote there are code to switch between each connection type for the same input. I have the XLR, 7.1, COAX, and HMDI all connected to the BD input of the 8801. I can change connections in about 1 second.

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post #8661 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
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The AV7005 was released in October 2010.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

2 years. It was released in 2010 and replaced in 2012 by the AV7701.



I guess that would make sense. I'm sure it will be HDMI 2.0, and I wonder what other features? How could they possibly improve on the sound hmm biggrin.gif
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post #8662 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labman1 View Post


I'm a new owner of an 8801 and have a question. I ran audyssey for the first time and came up with odd crossovers. I have Von Schweikert audio LCR 3.5's and the VR 3.5 both are flat to 45hz. and -6db's at 30 hz. the TS3.5's are the same. The first time I ran Audyssey they put the LF at 90hz the center at 40hz and the front right and surrounds at 80hz, I thought that was odd so I ran it again with the fronts toed in a little more and the fronts read 120hz, center 40hz and surrounds at 80hz, The Onkyo set everything at 80hz so wonder what is up. I'm using a mic boom. My sub is a PSA XS15 in a 12'x15'x8' room. The amp is a CineNova Grande 5 channel. Albert is not one to lie about his numbers and it has been reviewed and these numbers are right. I have a carpet over wood floor ,heavy drapes.

My listening position is 12' from the mains and the mains are 12' apart. The Left main is 13" from the wall in a corner and the right main is 12" from the back wall, five inches from the right main is an opening to the hall/living area. I have poured over the Audyssey faqs. and they say you can raise the crossovers but not to lower. The 8801 is awesome I hear detail I have not heard before and my surrounds have come alive!

Any help is appreciated, pleeease!

Made it ! good, be patient the guys will chime in wink.gif

While we're waiting ....

Don't forget that your room has a strong effect on the sound you hear coming from your speakers.

In particular, if you haven't installed any absorbent room treatments (especially at the first reflection points), the high frequencies tend to be added to by reflections off your walls, more than the low frequencies are. As a result, the low frequency rolloff that Audyssey (and you) hear is steeper than what's measured in an anechoic room, and thus a higher crossover frequency is needed to maintain a flat response. High frequencies tend to "beam" more than the lower frequencies,so toeing in the speakers (pointing them more away from the walls) reduces the crossover frequency because they aren't reflecting off the walls as much. Some people have found that their sound is better if they toe in their speakers so far that they're pointing well in front of the primary listening position. The extent to which toeing in helps depends on the details of how the tweeter and its surround are designed, of course.
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post #8663 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 11:55 AM
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Thanks mate, tried to find sticky do you know where its located?

Thank you

No sticky but here's the post on it wink.gif

post #8481
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post #8664 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post


I guess that would make sense. I'm sure it will be HDMI 2.0, and I wonder what other features? How could they possibly improve on the sound hmm biggrin.gif

I can think of a couple of ways...

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post #8665 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 02:20 PM
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I can think of a couple of ways...

- Rich



I'm all ears smile.gif you like no processing and just need a controller tongue.gif
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post #8666 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 02:32 PM
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I'm thinking about the 8801

 

If you'd like to help me decide if I should upgrade, click here.:) 


Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #8667 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I'm all ears smile.gif you like no processing and just need a controller tongue.gif

Some of my suggestions:

  • Reduce the heat (probably created by the video circuitry, A true bypass)
  • Isolate the Video form the Audio (Changing video settings alters the sound, this should not happen)
  • Improve HDMI handling of LPCM (coax sounds better)
  • Allow a true bypass for XLR
  • Allow LCD display in pure mode (this does not improve sound quality, it is a placebo)
  • Use one LCD display (I have to open the door and use a custom code to check the input format information)
  • Improve digital processing (Changes from Pure Direct to Stereo has a noticeable impact on sound quality)
  • A better Info button (in Pure Direct nothing useful is displayed. For Volume, I had to program and Up/Down volume sequence)


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post #8668 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Some of my suggestions:

  • Reduce the heat (probably created by the video circuitry, A true bypass)
  • Isolate the Video form the Audio (Changing video settings alters the sound, this should not happen)
  • Improve HDMI handling of LPCM (coax sounds better)
  • Allow a true bypass for XLR
  • Allow LCD display in pure mode (this does not improve sound quality, it is a placebo)
  • Use one LCD display (I have to open the door and use a custom code to check the input format information)
  • Improve digital processing (Changes from Pure Direct to Stereo has a noticeable impact on sound quality)
  • A better Info button (in Pure Direct nothing useful is displayed. For Volume, I had to program and Up/Down volume sequence)


- Rich



I definitely agree with the heat part, she runs a bit warm. Maybe the updated Marantz will address some of those issues. As far as the input goes I just use Deremote, everything is displayed down the button or in the media tab. We'll also be lucky to have 7.1 inputs at some point in the future.
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post #8669 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 08:08 PM
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I guess that would make sense. I'm sure it will be HDMI 2.0, and I wonder what other features? How could they possibly improve on the sound hmm biggrin.gif

Of course the AV8003 was released in 2008 and wasn't replaced until 2012.
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post #8670 of 12321 Old 10-12-2013, 08:59 PM
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No sticky but here's the post on it wink.gif

post #8481

Thanks mate will have a look

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