Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 301 - AVS Forum
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post #9001 of 12335 Old 11-06-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cp1966 View Post


Still waiting for a suggestion as to why using the 7.1 analogue output/inputs from my Oppo 93 to the 8801 sounds tinny/not as rich or full as the using the HDMI for audio. It is a big difference.

As it happens I was just doing some more intensive listening with the 8801 last night and figured I would see if I could notice the difference between using the HDMI input and 2-channel analog inputs. Perhaps not surprising (though I guess it was a bit surprising to me), I definitely noticed a difference in the character of the sound. I played a CD using my Lexicon RT-20 which was connected to both the HDMI input and the CD analog input and had the 8801 hooked into a Bryston amp using the balanced connection. I did not do any setup using Audyssey and was listening both in the music mode and the direct mode (which didn't sound noticeably different). At first, what was clear was that there was a volume difference and so every time I switched back to the analog connection I had to adjust the volume up a bit to keep the same overall volume (not sure why) and also at first I thought I much preferred the analog connection but after going back and forth for 15-20 minutes using the same 20 second part of a track, I realized that they were just different. The analog connection seemed to be more airy and transparent and the HDMI connection seemed to have more weight/presence (if that makes sense) but seemingly less transparency - at least at first, until I realized (or convinced myself) that the same details showed but with a bit different style.

Am I right to assume that with the HDMI connection the Lexicon was not doing the processing/conversion and the 8801 was and in the analog connection the Lexicon was and the 8801 was just passing through the analog signal? I thought perhaps it was just a difference between the Lexicon and the 8801 but based on the above post, perhaps there is something else to it. I wouldn't have described the analog as tinny or harsher but I definitely understand the not as rich or full comment.

As a side note, the further listening session confirmed my initial impressions that I like the 8801 and shouldn't have an issue moving from the Anthem to the 8801.
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post #9002 of 12335 Old 11-06-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

You need a different mic and the one you need is probably listed in the REW F&Q, (assuming there's an F&Q) I'm about to get into REW myself and I know the mic is around $100.
Thanks..I actually just cancelled my order from Hong Kong for the recommended Mic. I guess I'll play it by ear for a while and decide if I want to re-order it. I don't really have options of relocating my Sub etc so may just have to let Audyssey do its thing and leave things alone.

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post #9003 of 12335 Old 11-06-2013, 05:05 PM
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Thanks..I actually just cancelled my order from Hong Kong for the recommended Mic. I guess I'll play it by ear for a while and decide if I want to re-order it. I don't really have options of relocating my Sub etc so may just have to let Audyssey do its thing and leave things alone.



Best of luck smile.gif
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post #9004 of 12335 Old 11-06-2013, 06:19 PM
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Okay 8801 owners and HT aficionados here is the dilemma! It is Coming up on the giving time of year and my options for gifts are as follows: Oppo 103 with Darblett. 2. Omnimic V2 or another XS15 to help the other XS15. I have the 8801 with a Von Schweikert 5.1 set up with a Cinenova Grande amp. Playing Blu ray through a PS3 and also DVD;s. I have a small room 15'x12'x8'. Always helps to get other input from HT believers.
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post #9005 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by labman1 View Post

Okay 8801 owners and HT aficionados here is the dilemma! It is Coming up on the giving time of year and my options for gifts are as follows: Oppo 103 with Darblett. 2. Omnimic V2 or another XS15 to help the other XS15. I have the 8801 with a Von Schweikert 5.1 set up with a Cinenova Grande amp. Playing Blu ray through a PS3 and also DVD;s. I have a small room 15'x12'x8'. Always helps to get other input from HT believers.

I can only help narrow the list down to the Oppo 103D or second sub, and I wish you luck ,as that's a tough set of choices wink.gif
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post #9006 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by labman1 View Post

Okay 8801 owners and HT aficionados here is the dilemma! It is Coming up on the giving time of year and my options for gifts are as follows: Oppo 103 with Darblett. 2. Omnimic V2 or another XS15 to help the other XS15. I have the 8801 with a Von Schweikert 5.1 set up with a Cinenova Grande amp. Playing Blu ray through a PS3 and also DVD;s. I have a small room 15'x12'x8'. Always helps to get other input from HT believers.



Are these gifts for you? I'd want a dedicated blu ray player if I didn't have one. It sounds like you have most of the other necessary toys.
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post #9007 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by labman1 View Post

Okay 8801 owners and HT aficionados here is the dilemma! It is Coming up on the giving time of year and my options for gifts are as follows: Oppo 103 with Darblett. 2. Omnimic V2 or another XS15 to help the other XS15. I have the 8801 with a Von Schweikert 5.1 set up with a Cinenova Grande amp. Playing Blu ray through a PS3 and also DVD;s. I have a small room 15'x12'x8'. Always helps to get other input from HT believers.



Are these gifts for you? I'd want a dedicated blu ray player if I didn't have one. It sounds like you have most of the other necessary toys.

 

The PS3 is a pretty good BD player though - so if he is considering getting into measuring his room, then the OmniMic might be a better choice. A second sub is almost always a good idea too...

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post #9008 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The PS3 is a pretty good BD player though - so if he is considering getting into measuring his room, then the OmniMic might be a better choice. A second sub is almost always a good idea too...



I don't think ps3 decodes TrueHD though. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't own one.
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post #9009 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The PS3 is a pretty good BD player though - so if he is considering getting into measuring his room, then the OmniMic might be a better choice. A second sub is almost always a good idea too...



I don't think ps3 decodes TrueHD though. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't own one.

 

His AVR will though if he sends PCM out from the PS3 and does the decoding in the AVR itself.

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

His AVR will though if he sends PCM out from the PS3 and does the decoding in the AVR itself.



I just read up on that and that's the way to do it Keith smile.gif
So as long as someone else is buying biggrin.gif I'd go for the second sub and sure why not an OmniMic. Adding my second sub behind my MLP made a huge difference for me, so I'm believer in multiple subs.
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post #9011 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

His AVR will though if he sends PCM out from the PS3 and does the decoding in the AVR itself.

how? I was mistakenly sending PCM to my 8801 and could not figure out any way to get DTS-MA etc. when watching blu-rays until I changed the BD player settings to not send PCM, sorry but confused about that
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post #9012 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb

You need a different mic and the one you need is probably listed in the REW F&Q, (assuming there's an F&Q) I'm about to get into REW myself and I know the mic is around $100.
Thanks..I actually just cancelled my order from Hong Kong for the recommended Mic. I guess I'll play it by ear for a while and decide if I want to re-order it. I don't really have options of relocating my Sub etc so may just have to let Audyssey do its thing and leave things alone.



You can use the 8801 mic for REW, its just not as accurate as it should be
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Originally Posted by labman1 View Post

Okay 8801 owners and HT aficionados here is the dilemma! It is Coming up on the giving time of year and my options for gifts are as follows: Oppo 103 with Darblett. 2. Omnimic V2 or another XS15 to help the other XS15. I have the 8801 with a Von Schweikert 5.1 set up with a Cinenova Grande amp. Playing Blu ray through a PS3 and also DVD;s. I have a small room 15'x12'x8'. Always helps to get other input from HT believers.

Keep with the ps3, buy a UMIK-1 mic for $100 and save yourself $200 there, take that and get that second sub SON!!!! one xs15 vs two with double the amp power should be a very significant move for you. Not lateral at all biggrin.gif

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post #9014 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 10:58 AM
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I've had the 8001 for a day and a half now and believe it to be set up fairly well already. I am displaying a projected 1080p image that I am satisfied with although the image is a little brighter than I am used to. However, the image isn't washed out and I'll just have to give it a little time before I decide whether or not to recalibrate my projector settings. I'm also enjoying the sound quality. And my biggest fear in replacing my Lexicon processor was that I'd be sorry about the sound quality. The only complaint I have thus far is with the manual, which I find difficult to navigate and read. I have just a 3 questions for you folks who know this unit thoroughly: 1) I want to be sure that my understanding of the Bass Management is correct. It is my understanding that when having speakers set as "small', that the lower frequencies that are rolled off according to the selected cross over point(s) will be combined into the subwoofer channel. Further, I understand that when switching the the Bass menu to use "Subwoofer: LFE vs LFE+ Main", the former setting will only combine the rolled off lower frequencies plus LFE into the subwoofer channel; while the later setting will combine an all channel low frequency signal to the LFE regardless of whether or not "large" speakers settings are used. (ie: doubled bass). And finally, it seems to be that these settings need only be done once and are universal, meaning they apply to all inputs and selected modes. I'd appreciate confirmation that I am understanding the way the Bass Management works, please. 2)Can the remote that comes with this thing REALLY be "taught" to control other devices (ie DirecTV)? For the life of me, I haven't figured how to do that. Instead, I programmed most of the 8801's functions into my Harmony. 3)In the setup menu under "Network", I am certain that I am properly connected and was able to download a firmware update and I do receive internet radio and Pandora just fine.; But there is a menu item called "network maintenance" or something similar that I don't know what it does. When I hit 'start' it returns some sort of error message and there is indication that is a function for "installers". Anyone know what it's for? Otherwise, I'm fine with this new piece. It's a little large and gets a little warm, but I've got a Lexicon for sale now on Ebay and am not missing it's terrific sound quality, And in fact, a well recorded 7.1 HD master BD concert (Joe Bonamassa) sounds slightly, though noticeably better than ever!

 

Michael

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post #9015 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 01:52 PM
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Be careful with LFE+Main. if your subs and mains are not properly time (distance) aligned, which audyssey doesn't do for you, you might have destructive interference at your 40hz crossover point. What do I mean by this? The two speakers could potentially be cancelling each other out in that area and creating a null, or dip in the FR.

Here is my attempt at uploading a photo;

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Good speaker placement smile.gif I assume those are at the 1/4 points of the front wall? The sub while pretty close to the mains could still as a matter of fact cancel in the crossover region. Traditionally, you don't want two speakers playing the same bandwidth, at major different distances to the listener. Bottom line without measuring gear is experiment! Take some material that is very familiar to you, play it while switching between LFE+Main and just LFE and see what you think sounds better smile.gif

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post #9017 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

His AVR will though if he sends PCM out from the PS3 and does the decoding in the AVR itself.

how? I was mistakenly sending PCM to my 8801 and could not figure out any way to get DTS-MA etc. when watching blu-rays until I changed the BD player settings to not send PCM, sorry but confused about that

There are two ways to get HD sound codecs into your speakers.

 

  1. You can decode the DTS-HD MA or TrueHD in the player and then send LPCM to the AVR which simply distributes it as required.
  2. Or you can send the 'raw' bitstream output from the player and let the AVR decode it.

 

Either way gives exactly the same sonic result. If you opt for 1 above, then the AVR will not show 'DTS-HD MA' or 'Dolby TrueHD' on its display.

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post #9018 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 02:20 PM
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Yes the gifts are for me. I've narrowed it down to the Oppo 103 w/Darblett or the XS15. Seems like the audio quality in the Oppo would do the trick for BD,CD and also up convert DVD's. I sold my PB12 Ultra after talking with Tom V. and after sending sketches of my room and dimensions he thought the XS15 would fit the bill over the XS30 due to room size and said save a few bucks for room treatments. I had the first PB12 Ultra matter of fact it was a proto type and he said he would sell me this for the cost of the PB12 which I was going to order. The man has a great memory he remembered our conversation after 10 years,but I digress. Still have a BFD but don't think I need it with the 8801. Thanks for the feed back wish I could have all three but a gift of this quality comes around only once a year! Going down to buy lottery tics now!biggrin.gif
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I don't think ps3 decodes TrueHD though. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't own one.

It does with 2D video but not 3D video.

2D ==> HD DTS; HD DD

3D ==> HD DTS only

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post #9020 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by spentmuch View Post

I've had the 8001 for a day and a half now and believe it to be set up fairly well already. I am displaying a projected 1080p image that I am satisfied with although the image is a little brighter than I am used to. However, the image isn't washed out and I'll just have to give it a little time before I decide whether or not to recalibrate my projector settings. I'm also enjoying the sound quality. And my biggest fear in replacing my Lexicon processor was that I'd be sorry about the sound quality. The only complaint I have thus far is with the manual, which I find difficult to navigate and read. I have just a 3 questions for you folks who know this unit thoroughly: 1) I want to be sure that my understanding of the Bass Management is correct. It is my understanding that when having speakers set as "small', that the lower frequencies that are rolled off according to the selected cross over point(s) will be combined into the subwoofer channel. Further, I understand that when switching the the Bass menu to use "Subwoofer: LFE vs LFE+ Main", the former setting will only combine the rolled off lower frequencies plus LFE into the subwoofer channel; while the later setting will combine an all channel low frequency signal to the LFE regardless of whether or not "large" speakers settings are used. (ie: doubled bass). And finally, it seems to be that these settings need only be done once and are universal, meaning they apply to all inputs and selected modes. I'd appreciate confirmation that I am understanding the way the Bass Management works, please. 2)Can the remote that comes with this thing REALLY be "taught" to control other devices (ie DirecTV)? For the life of me, I haven't figured how to do that. Instead, I programmed most of the 8801's functions into my Harmony. 3)In the setup menu under "Network", I am certain that I am properly connected and was able to download a firmware update and I do receive internet radio and Pandora just fine.; But there is a menu item called "network maintenance" or something similar that I don't know what it does. When I hit 'start' it returns some sort of error message and there is indication that is a function for "installers". Anyone know what it's for? Otherwise, I'm fine with this new piece. It's a little large and gets a little warm, but I've got a Lexicon for sale now on Ebay and am not missing it's terrific sound quality, And in fact, a well recorded 7.1 HD master BD concert (Joe Bonamassa) sounds slightly, though noticeably better than ever!

Michael


a. The Video Processing can be minimized by setting the "i/p Scaler" setting to OFF for each source (p. 129 OM).

1. LFE + Main only applies when the FL/FR speakers are set to LARGE in which case the FL/FR speakers and the sub both play the same lower frequencies below the crossover point of the FL/FR speakers (aka "double bass"). This setting is universal although generally never recommended.

2. Yes, as noted on p. 151 of the OM, the remote is designed to accept the preset device codes listed in the back of the Owner's manual as well as is a learning remote if the original remote is available, although you are likely better served using the Harmony.

3. Maintenance Mode is designed for custom installers and repair engineers.

b. Ensure there is plenty of ventilation around the unit (at least 3-4" above), otherwise you may want to add a PC fan to exhaust the air from the top of the unit.

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post #9021 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 03:07 PM
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Ran Audyssey...Funky room stuff like huge vaulted ceilings and large passageways to hall and kitchen area. How do these graphs look? Thanks for info
Fronts


Center


Surrounds:


After this was ran I did change crossovers to 80 and speakers to small.
Audyssey set trims as below.

-6 Front
-3.5 Surrounds
-6.5 Sub

When I go to Audyssey settings it show the original readings like speakers to full range and large but when i hit the manual it shows small speakers and crossed over at 80. Is there a way to adjust the Audyssey or how do i know what I am running on the fly? Thanks for info and input.

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post #9022 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 04:44 PM
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Norcuron typed (in part):
"When I go to Audyssey settings it show the original readings like speakers to full range and large but when i hit the manual it shows small speakers and crossed over at 80. Is there a way to adjust the Audyssey or how do i know what I am running on the fly? Thanks for info and input".

I believe that the 'Audyssey' section of the menu will always show your original measurements and settings - regardless of how you change things under the 'manual' section afterward.
The 'manual' section holds your changes and those are the ones your system operates off of, so no worries that the original results still show under Audyssey.

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post #9023 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcuron View Post

Ran Audyssey...Funky room stuff like huge vaulted ceilings and large passageways to hall and kitchen area. How do these graphs look? Thanks for info
Fronts


Center


Surrounds:


After this was ran I did change crossovers to 80 and speakers to small.
Audyssey set trims as below.

-6 Front
-3.5 Surrounds
-6.5 Sub

When I go to Audyssey settings it show the original readings like speakers to full range and large but when i hit the manual it shows small speakers and crossed over at 80. Is there a way to adjust the Audyssey or how do i know what I am running on the fly? Thanks for info and input.

In case you're unaware of this, the Audyssey setting is not the same as a flat frequency response curve. It's tweaked to be an improvement which on the surface, I shouldn't like but do.

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post #9024 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 08:42 PM
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I appreciate the help. One more thing...I got myself a pair of USB fans to keep the thing cool. I plugged them into the port on the rear of the unit. But somewhere I missed how to turn the things off when the machine is in standby mode. Is there a way to accomplish this?

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post #9025 of 12335 Old 11-07-2013, 08:42 PM
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A flat response curve is one thing in a perfect room, but the Audyssey is supposed to create a flat response in the sampling zone in the current room. Open or close doors, drapes, etc and see how the Audyssey equalizer changes...

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post #9026 of 12335 Old 11-08-2013, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spentmuch View Post

I appreciate the help. One more thing...I got myself a pair of USB fans to keep the thing cool. I plugged them into the port on the rear of the unit. But somewhere I missed how to turn the things off when the machine is in standby mode. Is there a way to accomplish this?

I t was posted in the last few pages;

Network settings I think, turn off USB in standby
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post #9027 of 12335 Old 11-08-2013, 05:20 AM
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re: USB on/off: There's clearly a switch to have the "network" always on/off during standby; but I've been unable to locate any such switch that controls the rear USB port in that fashion. If such a switch exists on the unit, any help would be much appreciated. Otherwise, I think the obvious solution would be to purchase a thermostatic controlled fan, but these are a lot more $$

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post #9028 of 12335 Old 11-08-2013, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spentmuch View Post

re: USB on/off: There's clearly a switch to have the "network" always on/off during standby; but I've been unable to locate any such switch that controls the rear USB port in that fashion. If such a switch exists on the unit, any help would be much appreciated. Otherwise, I think the obvious solution would be to purchase a thermostatic controlled fan, but these are a lot more $$

I know it's doable without using a thermostat control.

I have a fan connected to the rear USB port. It turns off when the unit turns off.

The only setting I had to use was one that switches from the front USB to the rear USB.

With that said, I don't use the network feature as it tends to scramble my router every few days.

I have other devices that handle networking without crashing my router.

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post #9029 of 12335 Old 11-08-2013, 05:46 AM
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^^^

please see page 78 of the manual entitled setting the USB port to use

it is found under option on the menu screen

edit: the rear USB port is always on when selected: so a fan connected will always run with 8801 on or off

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post #9030 of 12335 Old 11-08-2013, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

^^^

please see page 78 of the manual entitled setting the USB port to use

it is found under option on the menu screen

edit: the rear USB port is always on when selected: so a fan connected will always run with 8801 on or off

I use a fan connected to the rear USB port and it turns off if you turn off the Ethernet hub.
Add odd side effect, but I do not use the hub so it works for me.

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