Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 302 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9031 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 04:46 PM
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I have a volume question. I had an older CD playing through my PS3 today and I was able to turn it up to about 92 on the volume but it would not physically go higher even though in setup it shows to 98. I was kind of surprised that was absolute maximum volume. It's not like my amp is underpowering the system. It was very loud but still very clear. Any ideas? Thanks

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post #9032 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcuron View Post

I have a volume question. I had an older CD playing through my PS3 today and I was able to turn it up to about 92 on the volume but it would not physically go higher even though in setup it shows to 98. I was kind of surprised that was absolute maximum volume. It's not like my amp is underpowering the system. It was very loud but still very clear. Any ideas? Thanks



If your trim levels are high the Max volume number goes down. I think or at least they did on my previous pre/pro.
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post #9033 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

If your trim levels are high the Max volume number goes down. I think or at least they did on my previous pre/pro.

Fronts: -6
Center -3.5
Surround -3.0
Sub -6.5 but I did increase it to -3.5 for a little more.

Seems weird everything is negative trim yet still that limit.

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post #9034 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcuron View Post

Fronts: -6
Center -3.5
Surround -3.0
Sub -6.5 but I did increase it to -3.5 for a little more.

Seems weird everything is negative trim yet still that limit.



You should use the relative volume scale, that way you would know 0 is reference. Just a thought. Under settings>volume there is a way to limit the volume, maybe your max is set at 92.
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post #9035 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

You should use the relative volume scale, that way you would know 0 is reference. Just a thought. Under settings>volume there is a way to limit the volume, maybe your max is set at 92.

Thanks..I appreciate you trying to help. I tried the DB route too and it stopped at like 12 instead of 18. The max is set to no limit.

On a side note.....If all of my trims are set to a negative number for example:
Fronts: -6
Center -3.5
Surround -3.0
Sub -6.5 but I did increase it to -3.5 for a little more.

Is there a negative to increasing them all by 3DB so surrounds would be 0, fronts -3db and Center -.5? Sub I can take care of separately.

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post #9036 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcuron View Post

Thanks..I appreciate you trying to help. I tried the DB route too and it stopped at like 12 instead of 18. The max is set to no limit.

On a side note.....If all of my trims are set to a negative number for example:
Fronts: -6
Center -3.5
Surround -3.0
Sub -6.5 but I did increase it to -3.5 for a little more.

Is there a negative to increasing them all by 3DB so surrounds would be 0, fronts -3db and Center -.5? Sub I can take care of separately.



If Audyssey set them you should leave them there at least for movies. I do turn my surrounds and center down a few db for music.
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post #9037 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 09:51 PM
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Question is the Marantz a fully differential balanced design?
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post #9038 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Question is the Marantz a fully differential balanced design?

That was asked before and I believe the answer was that it wasn't.

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post #9039 of 12802 Old 11-08-2013, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcuron View Post

Thanks..I appreciate you trying to help. I tried the DB route too and it stopped at like 12 instead of 18. The max is set to no limit.

On a side note.....If all of my trims are set to a negative number for example:
Fronts: -6
Center -3.5
Surround -3.0
Sub -6.5 but I did increase it to -3.5 for a little more.

Is there a negative to increasing them all by 3DB so surrounds would be 0, fronts -3db and Center -.5? Sub I can take care of separately.
Manual page 44 states: >>The variable range differs according to the input signal and channel level setting.<< That means the channel gain trims can affect volume range, and so can the Source Level settings (p. 135). The thing is, you may find that no matter what you do, the overall max gain from source to output jacks remains a constant. OTOH, you may find that you can game the system to get more juice out of it. It depends on how the designers wrote the code -- did they pre-allocate certain ranges to certain functions, or is it a zero sum game. All three of these controls are talking to a single analog volume control stage, and that's why these things are not fully independent.

You can try some experiments. Change the source level setting for the CD input, say, 5 dB higher. Does the volume range go down another 5 dB or stay the same? If same, it ought to sound louder.

You can also try raising the gain trims by 3 dB idea. The only things that affects are the volume reading for a certain SPL, and since those numbers mean nothing, no need to worry. It will also shift DEQ to act 3 dB stronger, so you'd have to either like it, turn it off, or use RLO to compensate.

I wouldn't worry about secondary effects until you determine what's interacting with the volume range.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcuron View Post

I tried the DB route too and it stopped at like 12 instead of 18. The max is set to no limit.
I have a question. Using the volume scale setting in the -79/+18 mode, I'd like to find out the actual SPL of a known test signal when the volume is set to 0 dB. Do you have one of the various test discs that have noise signals such as THX Optimizer, or Spears/Munsil, etc? If you have the AIX disc, set the volume to -10 for this test as their noise is recorded 10 dB louder.

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post #9041 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 05:29 AM
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I'm considering the 8801. I don't doubt the sound quality. I will however be using this in a setup with several sources, and switching b/w TV and projector outputs. All HDMI. My issue is then: how good is the 8801 as a HDMI switch/matrix?

I will use it in an automated setup with iRule, and it needs to be very reliable as both my wife and kids will use it.
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post #9042 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View PostThat was asked before and I believe the answer was that it wasn't.

Are any of them fully balanced?

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post #9043 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 07:42 AM
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Are any of them fully balanced?



I think fully balanced is a myth or for people that can afford a $15,000 pre/pro wink.gif Explain fully balanced?
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Supposedly some high-priced stereo preamps and amps are fully balanced.

Dont' forget that XLR connections are irrelevant in most home audio environments. The improvements they provide are primarily emotional ones. While they do provide more secure mechanical connections than many RCA connectors, their primary purpose is to reduce pickup of broadcast noise. This is very important in a live music presentation on a large stage where cables have to run long distances in an electrically noisy environment. Most homes are not like that.

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post #9045 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I think fully balanced is a myth or for people that can afford a $15,000 pre/pro wink.gif Explain fully balanced?

Well if you use active studio monitors you need fully differential balanced

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sloa054d/sloa054d.pdf
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"Dont' forget that XLR connections are irrelevant in most home audio environments. The improvements they provide are primarily emotional ones. While they do provide more secure mechanical connections than many RCA connectors, their primary purpose is to reduce pickup of broadcast noise. This is very important in a live music presentation on a large stage where cables have to run long distances in an electrically noisy environment. Most homes are not like that".

 

 

Couldn't agree more. And I'll add that your statement applies to most of the hype pitched by hind end cable manufacturers and retailers. I am particularly fond of the "hospital grade" AC power cords that are 3 feet long and sell for the big bucks. "Can't you hear the better imaging detail"? Never mind the fact that these pieces of wire are plugged into your electrical outlet that is fed from long runs of cheap wire. Relatively short runs of speaker wire? I'll admit I've fallen into the "emotional satisfaction" trap in years past too, buying gigantic, outrageously priced short runs of "biwire" speaker cable, all to the great satisfaction of the retailer who "just wanted me to get the best sound quality". Gotta love this hobby!

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post #9047 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Are any of them fully balanced?

The Emotiva XMC-1 to be available this January (or February?) will be a 'fully balanced' surround pre-pro.
Part of their product description reads:
"The XMC-1 is also a highly refined pure analog preamplifier, with a fully balanced audio path. Its analog performance easily meets the needs of the most demanding two-channel playback system".
Also a surround processor with Dirac Live™ room correction...
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xmc1
$2,000.

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post #9048 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Well if you use active studio monitors you need fully differential balanced

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sloa054d/sloa054d.pdf



I know and they all claim fully balanced. I'm assuming the Marantz isn't truly fully balance but would we know one if we heard it? I am not convinced and just like spentmuch said above there are many myths in high end audio and the higher up the ladder you go the bigger the claims are. One thing I'm sure of is the 8801 is one great sounding piece and it will stay in my setup for a long time. In 3 or 4 years maybe Atmos will make it to HT and I can do a dedicated 2.1 music room with the Marantz.
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post #9049 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

The Emotiva XMC-1 to be available this January (or February?) will be a 'fully balanced' surround pre-pro.
Part of their product description reads:
"The XMC-1 is also a highly refined pure analog preamplifier, with a fully balanced audio path. Its analog performance easily meets the needs of the most demanding two-channel playback system".Also a surround processor with Dirac Live™ room correction...http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xmc1
$2,000.

I will never buy EMOTIVA until they get rid of that smell!
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post #9050 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spentmuch View Post

"Dont' forget that XLR connections are irrelevant in most home audio environments. The improvements they provide are primarily emotional ones. While they do provide more secure mechanical connections than many RCA connectors, their primary purpose is to reduce pickup of broadcast noise. This is very important in a live music presentation on a large stage where cables have to run long distances in an electrically noisy environment. Most homes are not like that".


Couldn't agree more. And I'll add that your statement applies to most of the hype pitched by hind end cable manufacturers and retailers. I am particularly fond of the "hospital grade" AC power cords that are 3 feet long and sell for the big bucks. "Can't you hear the better imaging detail"? Never mind the fact that these pieces of wire are plugged into your electrical outlet that is fed from long runs of cheap wire. Relatively short runs of speaker wire? I'll admit I've fallen into the "emotional satisfaction" trap in years past too, buying gigantic, outrageously priced short runs of "biwire" speaker cable, all to the great satisfaction of the retailer who "just wanted me to get the best sound quality". Gotta love this hobby!

I will receive the 8801 on Tuesday "WoooHooo!" Personally, I will use XLR cables to my amplifiers simply because of the infinitely more robust connections. My middle age plus ears could never hear a difference based on cables. I have, however, had equipment bend and break due to RCA connections. Emotive 1t Series XPA amplifiers are notorious for wimpy RCA connections. Go look at the back of the new Series 2 stuff to see they re-engineered the RCA connects. Too many returns due t the old connections breaking off the back board.

So, it's XLR's for me!!!
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post #9051 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Are any of them fully balanced?

The 80.3 in 5.1 is fully balanced end to end. The Denon is fully balanced as are a few other high end models. The upcoming Emotiva design is too supposedly.

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post #9052 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

I will never buy EMOTIVA until they get rid of that smell!

I had the XSP-1 and currently have the XPR monos and XPA-2 second generation and not so much as a hint of any smell.

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post #9053 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

I will never buy EMOTIVA until they get rid of that smell!
(Hmmm, I thought that 'Emo Dan' already took you to the woodshed over that comment?).
And I've never heard this from anyone but you, and it was a 'one-off' condition I understood from that thread, but suit yourself! cool.gif

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The 80.3 in 5.1 is fully balanced end to end. The Denon is fully balanced as are a few other high end models. The upcoming Emotiva design is too supposedly.

Are any of the newer Denon's fully balanced?

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post #9055 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 02:13 PM
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The only Denon that is balanced is the AVP-1.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Well if you use active studio monitors you need fully differential balanced

If your speakers have balanced inputs then yes, it makes some sense to connect them to something with balanced outputs. However, that doesn't mean the pre/pro needs to be fully differential/balanced circuitry throughout.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #9057 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

(Hmmm, I thought that 'Emo Dan' already took you to the woodshed over that comment?).
And I've never heard this from anyone but you, and it was a 'one-off' condition I understood from that thread, but suit yourself! cool.gif

Well I came back just like the devil to hunt you tongue.gif
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post #9058 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The 80.3 in 5.1 is fully balanced end to end. The Denon is fully balanced as are a few other high end models. The upcoming Emotiva design is too supposedly.

Integra is fully balanced, good
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post #9059 of 12802 Old 11-09-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The 80.3 in 5.1 is fully balanced end to end. The Denon is fully balanced as are a few other high end models. The upcoming Emotiva design is too supposedly.
The XMC-1 is not fully balanced, Emo has stated that much. Is that the one you meant? They have discussed another model in the future, but I wouldn't worry about that until there's something even partially concrete.
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Originally Posted by Spiky View Post

The XMC-1 is not fully balanced, Emo has stated that much. Is that the one you meant? They have discussed another model in the future, but I wouldn't worry about that until there's something even partially concrete.

From the Emotiva Site:
Quote:
The XMC-1 is also a highly refined pure analog preamplifier, with a fully balanced audio path. Its analog performance easily meets the needs of the most demanding two-channel playback system.

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