Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 303 - AVS Forum
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post #9061 of 12127 Old 11-09-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Form the Emotiva Site:

Quote:
The XMC-1 is also a highly refined pure analog preamplifier, with a fully balanced audio path. Its analog performance easily meets the needs of the most demanding two-channel playback system.

- Rich

Depends on how much fully balanced you're looking for. Read carefully what they're saying...

The way it reads to me is that it has a fully balanced 2-ch analog path. If you're looking for a fully balanced pre/pro my opinion is this ain't it.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #9062 of 12127 Old 11-09-2013, 10:49 PM
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Well, I've joined the club. Picked up the unit last weekend. So far all I can say is awesome. Coming from a 10 year old AVR, probably anything would be a step up but the 8801 definitely delivers and I know why so many people are impressed. It's nice when you spend money and everything works great right out of the box. Very easy to set-up, almost didn't need to read the manual, no problems and the sound is great. This weekend, I've been evaluating the different sound formats (Audyssey, Aud. Flat and Pure Direct). I've always been a Pure Direct fan but I have to say that Audyssey MultEq XT32 is excellent for both music and movies. The dual sub eq is also very good. Thanks to all for your feedback and opinions on this unit, it made my decision easier.
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post #9063 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The 80.3 in 5.1 is fully balanced end to end.
Hi Kris,
I'm not saying the 80.3 is not fully balanced, but if it were, one would think they would make sure to tout that in their eBrochure. All that says is that it has a 2-ch balanced input and 9.1 balanced outputs. Is there some other official document that goes into more detail like Denon did in their excellent brochure?

Roger

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post #9064 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

If Audyssey set them you should leave them there at least for movies. I do turn my surrounds and center down a few db for music.

Always worth reminding folks that Audyssey does not set the speaker/sub volume levels rather the 8801 does so there's nothing wrong with tweaking the volume levels to suit one's "preference" as doing so does not impact the Audyssey curves. Also note that if you have Dynamic EQ enabled, you can set the Reference Level Offset setting (p. 124 OM) to 10db or 15db for your music sources which will reduce the bass/surround boost as a result of using Dynamic EQ.

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post #9065 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

If Audyssey set them you should leave them there at least for movies. I do turn my surrounds and center down a few db for music.

Always worth reminding folks that Audyssey does not set the speaker/sub volume levels rather the 8801 does so there's nothing wrong with tweaking the volume levels to suit one's "preference" as doing so does not impact the Audyssey curves. Also note that if you have Dynamic EQ enabled, you can set the Reference Level Offset setting (p. 124 OM) to 10db or 15db for your music sources which will reduce the bass/surround boost as a result of using Dynamic EQ.

 

And to add... changing the trims doesn't impact the Audyssey calibration, as you say, but it will have an impact on how DEQ works if the trims are no longer as 'expected' by Audyssey.  We used to think that DEQ was 'aware' of trim changes but it has since been revealed that this is not so. It's not really a huge deal though IMO unless the trims are changed drastically, and I can’t see why anyone would feel the need to do that - it implies something isn’t quite right somewhere. 



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post #9066 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 05:55 AM
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Question: I have had the 8801 and the 8077 for 4-5 months now and every now and the the amp doesn't turn on automatically when the preamp is turned on. I turn off the preamp then turn it back on and it works. Is it normal for that signal not to be received every now and then? Or do you think that the RCA cable could be bad? Thanks for your input!

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post #9067 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

And to add... changing the trims doesn't impact the Audyssey calibration, as you say, but it will have an impact on how DEQ works if the trims are no longer as 'expected' by Audyssey.  We used to think that DEQ was 'aware' of trim changes but it has since been revealed that this is not so. It's not really a huge deal though IMO unless the trims are changed drastically, and I can’t see why anyone would feel the need to do that - it implies something isn’t quite right somewhere. 



I do change mine for music because I use my setup for music all the time. I find the center and surrounds a few db loud for my liking while using PLII. It's a challenge getting Audyssey just right for music, but I think I have it pretty good. I use different settings in Audyssey and the 8801 depending on what my source is.
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post #9068 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I use different settings in Audyssey and the 8801 depending on what my source is.

Can this be done automatically when you select the source or hit movie mode or music mode or do you have to manually choose between two different stored Audyssey settings? My hope is that the 8801 can store at least two separately identified settings and that you can automatically have them be applied to different uses. I was just trying to figure this out yesterday from the manual and couldn't.
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post #9069 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielG View Post

Can this be done automatically when you select the source or hit movie mode or music mode or do you have to manually choose between two different stored Audyssey settings? My hope is that the 8801 can store at least two separately identified settings and that you can automatically have them be applied to different uses. I was just trying to figure this out yesterday from the manual and couldn't.



Fortunately there are things you can do for music within Audyssey and also within the 8801. Granted any AVR or pre is adjustable. For music you may want to use Audyssey flat (there are other settings you can use for music but generally you don't use the reference setting) it does not roll the high end off and generally sounds better for music. I've recently reassessed my mode for music (thanks madnorseman) and have begun to use PLII but I use the Marantz D-Max setting for the compressed music I listen to, usually set to medium. I drop the surround and center speaker levels down by 3 or 4db and I raise the sub levels by 3-6db. I'm experimenting with the reference level output (RLO) also, as recommended from the guys on the Audyssey thread.
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post #9070 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 06:46 AM
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Another question on sending an audio source to all zones simultaneously. As mentioned above, zone 2 and zone 3 can only be sent analog inputs on a separate basis (so missing the 2 channel conversion that the newer Marantz receivers can do and I think what the Yamaha a5000 can do for zone 2). However, what I need to do is be able to have an audio source playing (whether streaming from airplay or from Apple TV or a CD - first is a network input and the other two HDMI inputs). So, I looked through the 8801 manual to see if there was something analogous to the "copy main" in the Anthem or the "party mode" in the Yamaha a5000 and found potentially two confusing statements in two different sections.

On pg 111 it says "In Zone2 or Zone3, the digital audio signals input from the HDMI, COAXIAL or OPTICAL connector cannot be played back. When playing back in Zone2 or Zone3, make an analog connection, network or iPod/USB." So, I gather than that airplay through the network connection would work but not the Apple TV of CD if only connected through HDMI.

HOWEVER, on page 82, there is a heading "All Zone Stereo Function" which seems a lot like the copy main/ party mode concepts. It says "You can play back music in multi-zones (zone2/zone3) simultaneously that is played back in Main Zone." Goes on to say "the All Zone Stereo Function can be set for any source."

SO, does "any source" really mean what it says - that a source connected through HDMI can be sent in stereo mode to all zones as an exception to what pg 111 says. Seems to suggest that but perhaps it is implies an unstated caveat that it means any source that is also connected by analog.

Ultimately, this is a key function for me and could disqualify the 8801 in favor of the Yamaha if the all zone stereo is not really any source.....

Does anyone use the all zone stereo mode when wanting to play simultaneously to all of the zones?
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post #9071 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Fortunately there are things you can do for music within Audyssey and also within the 8801. Granted any AVR or pre is adjustable. For music you may want to use Audyssey flat (there are other settings you can use for music but generally you don't use the reference setting) it does not roll the high end off and generally sounds better for music. I've recently reassessed my mode for music (thanks madnorseman) and have begun to use PLII but I use the Marantz D-Max setting for the compressed music I listen to, usually set to medium. I drop the surround and center speaker levels down by 3 or 4db and I raise the sub levels by 3-6db. I'm experimenting with the reference level output (RLO) also, as recommended from the guys on the Audyssey thread.

Thanks for the comments. I think I would want to do the same. Though, to clarify, when you have the different approach to audio that you mention is that in automatic settings when playing audio or do you have to manually toggle it to change the settings when you play audio?
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post #9072 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielG View Post

Thanks for the comments. I think I would want to do the same. Though, to clarify, when you have the different approach to audio that you mention is that in automatic settings when playing audio or do you have to manually toggle it to change the settings when you play audio?



For the most part those settings are all manual but once you set it up the way you want it the 8801 should remember your settings.
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post #9073 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

Question: I have had the 8801 and the 8077 for 4-5 months now and every now and the the amp doesn't turn on automatically when the preamp is turned on. I turn off the preamp then turn it back on and it works. Is it normal for that signal not to be received every now and then? Or do you think that the RCA cable could be bad? Thanks for your input!

It works 100% of the time for me. Try a new cable?
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post #9074 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielG View Post

Another question on sending an audio source to all zones simultaneously. As mentioned above, zone 2 and zone 3 can only be sent analog inputs on a separate basis (so missing the 2 channel conversion that the newer Marantz receivers can do and I think what the Yamaha a5000 can do for zone 2). However, what I need to do is be able to have an audio source playing (whether streaming from airplay or from Apple TV or a CD - first is a network input and the other two HDMI inputs). So, I looked through the 8801 manual to see if there was something analogous to the "copy main" in the Anthem or the "party mode" in the Yamaha a5000 and found potentially two confusing statements in two different sections.

On pg 111 it says "In Zone2 or Zone3, the digital audio signals input from the HDMI, COAXIAL or OPTICAL connector cannot be played back. When playing back in Zone2 or Zone3, make an analog connection, network or iPod/USB." So, I gather than that airplay through the network connection would work but not the Apple TV of CD if only connected through HDMI.

HOWEVER, on page 82, there is a heading "All Zone Stereo Function" which seems a lot like the copy main/ party mode concepts. It says "You can play back music in multi-zones (zone2/zone3) simultaneously that is played back in Main Zone." Goes on to say "the All Zone Stereo Function can be set for any source."

SO, does "any source" really mean what it says - that a source connected through HDMI can be sent in stereo mode to all zones as an exception to what pg 111 says. Seems to suggest that but perhaps it is implies an unstated caveat that it means any source that is also connected by analog.

Ultimately, this is a key function for me and could disqualify the 8801 in favor of the Yamaha if the all zone stereo is not really any source.....

Does anyone use the all zone stereo mode when wanting to play simultaneously to all of the zones?

Correct. The "All Zone Stereo" setting will pass a PCM 2.0 HDMI signal to Zones 2/3 as well as play in the main zone. P. 111 is referring to playing an external source independent from the main zone.

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post #9075 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Depends on how much fully balanced you're looking for. Read carefully what they're saying...

The way it reads to me is that it has a fully balanced 2-ch analog path. If you're looking for a fully balanced pre/pro my opinion is this ain't it.
Yes, exactly. There have been many discussions about this at the Emo forums, this has been confirmed by their people. Sorry, I don't have a link off the top of my head. The fabled RMC-1 future prepro would be fully balanced like the Denon or high end companies. Pretty sure all sub-$5000 models by anybody are not 5.1/7.1 fully balanced. Including the 8801, 80.3, A5000, etc.
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post #9076 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I've recently reassessed my mode for music (thanks madnorseman) and have begun to use PLII but I use the Marantz D-Max setting for the compressed music I listen to, usually set to medium. I drop the surround and center speaker levels down by 3 or 4db and I raise the sub levels by 3-6db. I'm experimenting with the reference level output (RLO) also, as recommended from the guys on the Audyssey thread.
There is no need to drop the center for PLII Music mode. Go to the PLII menu and set the center width to a higher value. You can go all the way to 100% phantom center if you like (center is silent).

I do not know what Marantz M-Dax does, but it is possible that of several operations it accentuates L-R to combat the effects of low bitrate coding. That could affect PLII surround effect. Might try switching it on/off just to make sure it is not affecting anything.

You could also try the Dimension control to shift forward one click to see if that addresses the surround levels for you. RLO might help with the bass, I don't have that so the subs run 6 dB hotter in my music mode (a different processor).

Roger

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post #9077 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

There is no need to drop the center for PLII Music mode. Go to the PLII menu and set the center width to a higher value. You can go all the way to 100% phantom center if you like (center is silent).

I do not know what Marantz M-Dax does, but it is possible that of several operations it accentuates L-R to combat the effects of low bitrate coding. That could affect PLII surround effect. Might try switching it on/off just to make sure it is not affecting anything.

You could also try the Dimension control to shift forward one click to see if that addresses the surround levels for you. RLO might help with the bass, I don't have that so the subs run 6 dB hotter in my music mode (a different processor).



Hi Roger, thanks for tips, I still find I like the center level dropped a few db for some of my music not all. Maybe that is in the way some if it is mixed? I also misspelled the feature in the audio menu, so yes it is M-Dax and all it does is restore some of audio in compressed music. It's nice for internet or Sirius radio.

Edit;
I took your recommendation and tried setting the center width to a higher value and indeed this does sound better to me. Thanks for the tips.
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post #9078 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Depends on how much fully balanced you're looking for. Read carefully what they're saying...

The way it reads to me is that it has a fully balanced 2-ch analog path. If you're looking for a fully balanced pre/pro my opinion is this ain't it.
Quote:
The XMC-1 is also a highly refined pure analog preamplifier, with a fully balanced audio path. Its analog performance easily meets the needs of the most demanding two-channel playback system.

I guess you could read it that way.

Fully balanced is interesting but I care more about how the design is executed and sounds.
My amp is not fully balanced either.

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post #9079 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 03:09 PM
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The way I originally said it was a little weak. It means exactly what it says, nothing more. Problem is, there are folks whose eyes get all glassy and their brain function goes on standby when they see "fully balanced audio path, and forget about the statement as a whole..

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #9080 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. The "All Zone Stereo" setting will pass a PCM 2.0 HDMI signal to Zones 2/3 as well as play in the main zone. P. 111 is referring to playing an external source independent from the main zone.

JD - thanks for the confirmation. We probably discussed it but just wanted to be very sure. Thanks!
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post #9081 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 07:04 PM
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After running the audyssey xt32, do I need to adjust the phase on my subwoofer?
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post #9082 of 12127 Old 11-10-2013, 11:22 PM
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After running the audyssey xt32, do I need to adjust the phase on my subwoofer?

No!
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post #9083 of 12127 Old 11-11-2013, 07:51 AM
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Thanks..I appreciate you trying to help. I tried the DB route too and it stopped at like 12 instead of 18. The max is set to no limit.

On a side note.....If all of my trims are set to a negative number for example:
Fronts: -6
Center -3.5
Surround -3.0
Sub -6.5 but I did increase it to -3.5 for a little more.

Is there a negative to increasing them all by 3DB so surrounds would be 0, fronts -3db and Center -.5? Sub I can take care of separately.

My apologies getting back so late on this, but I do come with a confession as well...Tail between my legs. Your stopping at 12 could have something to do with if you use the Marantz app on your phone. A while ago I was having trouble with the volume sticking on my 8801 and I thought it was something with the Itunes handshake. well, not sure what happened in the end but the volume has worked fine for a while now. One exception, the volume would still not go past -6. This was infuriating. Long story short, I somehow in desperation found a sub-menu on the marantz app that had set a limiter to the -6 option. This limiter was NOWHERE to be found on the 8801 itself or in ANY of its own submenu's. I never set it myself either, so I had no idea it existed. Anyways, you may have run into the same issue if you use the app so give it a look! Now that I have it turned off I am back to 100% operation on the 8801 which was incredibly refreshing as I didn't want to send it off smile.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #9084 of 12127 Old 11-11-2013, 03:01 PM
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Is there any way that I can save two different presets, one for music and one for movies?

 

The reason is that I prefer to boost the sub a few extra dB's for movies.

 

It is pretty annoying to enter the menu system and adjust the level for both of my subwoofers, when I change from music to movies and back again.

 

Presently I run both movies and music via HDMI from a HTPC, but if it helps solve my problem I can use one of the SPDIF inputs for music.

 

So how do I make:

1. Two different presets

or

2. Different subwoofer levels on different inputs


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post #9085 of 12127 Old 11-11-2013, 05:46 PM
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As you suggest ... HDMI for one ... SPDIF for the other.

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post #9086 of 12127 Old 11-11-2013, 07:42 PM
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I had posted a few days ago about a popping sound from my front right tweeter when live broadcasts from ESPN goes to commercial. I recieved a new comcast box today and can change the ypbpr settings to native!1080p60 or others. It still pops on both native and 1080p60 and cannot get it to stop. I have it connected via HDMI and wondering what settings i could have it on?

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post #9087 of 12127 Old 11-11-2013, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I had posted a few days ago about a popping sound from my front right tweeter when live broadcasts from ESPN goes to commercial. I recieved a new comcast box today and can change the ypbpr settings to native!1080p60 or others. It still pops on both native and 1080p60 and cannot get it to stop. I have it connected via HDMI and wondering what settings i could have it on?



I used to get that when I changed channels on my Comcast box a couple of years ago. It would pop through the TV's speakers though, as I never listen to cable through my HT. It didn't happen all the time and went away on its own. Does it happen if you just listen to the TV's speakers?
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post #9088 of 12127 Old 11-11-2013, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I used to get that when I changed channels on my Comcast box a couple of years ago. It would pop through the TV's speakers though, as I never listen to cable through my HT. It didn't happen all the time and went away on its own. Does it happen if you just listen to the TV's speakers?
That is a good question! I do not have it hooked up to listen to tv speakers. It seems as though this started a few weeks ago althought I have been boycotting ESPN. It was said previously that it was the sound of espn changing from 720p broadcast to 1080i commercials. It is really upsetting hearing this dang popping mad.gif I want to know if there is something that I can do to fix it. I also want to make sure its not my equipment.

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post #9089 of 12127 Old 11-11-2013, 09:49 PM
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My apologies getting back so late on this, but I do come with a confession as well...Tail between my legs. Your stopping at 12 could have something to do with if you use the Marantz app on your phone. A while ago I was having trouble with the volume sticking on my 8801 and I thought it was something with the Itunes handshake. well, not sure what happened in the end but the volume has worked fine for a while now. One exception, the volume would still not go past -6. This was infuriating. Long story short, I somehow in desperation found a sub-menu on the marantz app that had set a limiter to the -6 option. This limiter was NOWHERE to be found on the 8801 itself or in ANY of its own submenu's. I never set it myself either, so I had no idea it existed. Anyways, you may have run into the same issue if you use the app so give it a look! Now that I have it turned off I am back to 100% operation on the 8801 which was incredibly refreshing as I didn't want to send it off smile.gifbiggrin.gif

Wow that was it. Thanks for your help. It was not a menu I had ever seen.

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post #9090 of 12127 Old 11-12-2013, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

That is a good question! I do not have it hooked up to listen to tv speakers. It seems as though this started a few weeks ago althought I have been boycotting ESPN. It was said previously that it was the sound of espn changing from 720p broadcast to 1080i commercials. It is really upsetting hearing this dang popping mad.gif I want to know if there is something that I can do to fix it. I also want to make sure its not my equipment.



I doubt it's the 8801 or it probably would be happening with other sources. Maybe you could try the TV speakers and/or contact Comcast because it very well may be the box or maybe your HD signal is a little weak?? But I know that pop and it's really annoying.
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