Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 307 - AVS Forum
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post #9181 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You got that the wrong way around surely?  The resolution of modern test instruments far exceeds that of human hearing.

How sure are you about that? The limits of human hearing and the findings on the subject are not absolute, as the conclusions are drawn from limited test methods and more research is needed.Measuring devices can indeed measure and a processors can process the signal. 

 

100%.

 

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 But only the human ear brain can properly interpet them, and sorry to say this is why subjective listening along with measurements is of high importance when discerning sound and the moment you seperate the two you get divided into two camps like the one's forming here .

 

If you can find anywhere I said that listening was not of importance, I'd appreciate you quoting that back to me. If not, what is the point of responding to something I didn’t say?

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post #9182 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

No. It only has USB Type A connectors. To connect to a computer, it'd have to have Type B.

From the [URL=://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/505-meridian-explorer-usb-dac-review/]Computer Audiophile Meridian Explorer review[/URL]:
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The Explorer operates asynchronously with low jitter crystal oscillators providing the master clock source. Asynchronous implementations are becoming standard but no less critical. The other implementation called Adaptive USB can be inferior due to its lack of master clocking and lack of flow control for the incoming data stream. The asynchronous USB implementation in the Explorer is designed to handle both clocking and flow control.

I did not see anything to on the Pioneer site or in the manual that mentions asynchronous USB operation.

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post #9183 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 12:33 PM
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AlxG.

First, I don't understand pretty much anything you are typing. I admit that, I don't even know what a 2 tone intermodulation test is. Doesn't Audyssey use something other than 2 tone testing of course I am ignorantly guessing wthat you consder 2 tone?

I also don't get the Piano analogy and most importantly, it's relationship with the never ending DAC debate. How does a live Mono source (There is only one piano, granted transmitting sound in different directions ) have anything to do with DAC analysis (and dare I say, perhaps cables) have much to do with anything? I do get the ultmate goal is to get your equipment to sound as close to what the recording studio wants it to sound like. You also have to assume the studio who recorded wants to have the material as close to the real source as possible. Not always the case, I'd imagine.

So, other than you want your audio system to sound as close to your piano as possible, how does that have anything to do with the DAC argument? I think you are making. Very confused.
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post #9184 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

guys,
need a quick answer (i'm sure it's a simple setting that I've overlooked somehow!)... so when I set the the processor a while back, I enabled the +PLIIxx to run 7 channels on most modes (DD, DTS, etc).

However, I just installed the PS4, and set the bitstream to output DTS, and some of the games default to DTS 7.1.... but because of my settings, the unit processes it as DTS+PLIIxx, and I don't want that.

how do I disable it? confused.gif

When I press the game/movie mode button for a couple of seconds to bring the quick surround mode menu, it doesn't give me an option to just have DTS "default".

How many speakers are connected to your system? More than 7, perhaps?

Are you trying to limit which speakers are being used?

Prologic and Neo are used to expand audio soundtracks so that they make use of all of your speakers. If you have 7 or fewer speakers and play a 7.1 source, then Prologic and Neo won't be available for selection. However, if you have more than 7 speakers, Prologic and Neo are always available.

If you press and hold down for a few seconds the Game button on the remote, you should be presented with a list of available "Sound Modes". See page 86 of the owners manual. I believe the option you should select is "Auto". See page 89.

Selden
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post #9185 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

AlxG.

First, I don't understand pretty much anything you are typing. I admit that, I don't even know what a 2 tone intermodulation test is. Doesn't Audyssey use something other than 2 tone testing of course I am ignorantly guessing wthat you consder 2 tone?

I also don't get the Piano analogy and most importantly, it's relationship with the never ending DAC debate. How does a live Mono source (There is only one piano, granted transmitting sound in different directions ) have anything to do with DAC analysis (and dare I say, perhaps cables) have much to do with anything? I do get the ultmate goal is to get your equipment to sound as close to what the recording studio wants it to sound like. You also have to assume the studio who recorded wants to have the material as close to the real source as possible. Not always the case, I'd imagine.

So, other than you want your audio system to sound as close to your piano as possible, how does that have anything to do with the DAC argument? I think you are making. Very confused.

2-tone intermodulation is used for testing linearity of electronics devices specifically amplified signal chains and have nothing to do with Audyssey room correction. My point is that not all DACs sound the same because of various design topoligies, reconstruction filters and analog out stages. Since Kbarnes701 brought up the topic of "accurate sound reproduction", I responded by stating that I don't know of any signal acquisition tool that can 100% accurately capture complex signal without adding its own artifacts. And the 2-tone test method that is used for testing DACs certain does not contribute towards validating DAC's overall quality.

Some like to analyze hyper precise/resolving sound and I prefer/enjoy organic tunes full of harmonic energy that I hear from instruments like piano.

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post #9186 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

How many speakers are connected to your system? More than 7, perhaps?

Are you trying to limit which speakers are being used?

Prologic and Neo are used to expand audio soundtracks so that they make use of all of your speakers. If you have 7 or fewer speakers and play a 7.1 source, then Prologic and Neo won't be available for selection. However, if you have more than 7 speakers, Prologic and Neo are always available.

If you press and hold down for a few seconds the Game button on the remote, you should be presented with a list of available "Sound Modes". See page 86 of the owners manual. I believe the option you should select is "Auto". See page 89.

correct, that's exactly what I did, I know that.

In this example, Killzone for PS4 has 7.1 output already, and when i tried to press the sound mode button, the DTS+PLxII shows up still.

I'll double check again.
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post #9187 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 02:10 PM
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If you only have 7 speakers and the front panel display reads "DTS + DD PLIIx" that means that there is only a 5.1 signal coming from the PS4 rather than a 7.1 signal. Make sure you have the correct boxes checked on the PS4 for 7.1 as well as ensuring the game really is 7.1.

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post #9188 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 04:38 PM
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Hi
Quick question for the owners of AV8801 who might have used Integra 80.2. I currently have Integra 80.2 and I am happy with it. Now as part of working on the dedicated home theater I have got height and wides set up, so looking at some 11.2 pre amps. I currently only have 9 speakers but will be adding 2 more in another 6 months or so. The question I have is, how would you compare Integra 80.2 with Marantz AV8801.

Is it in the same level and only I would gain 2 more speakers?
Is Marantz AV8801 better than Integra 80.2?

FYI: From usage perspective, it would be 95% movies and 5% music.

The other equipments I have are:
Canton Ergo 690 DC (Front Left and Right)
Canton Ergo 655 (Front Center)
Canton Ergo 610 (left/right height or wide speakers)
Klipsch RS52 (side/rear left/right surrounds)
SVS PB13 Ultra Subwoofer
All are driven through Emotiva amps (XPA 5 and XPA 3)

Please provide your thoughts. Your help is appreciated.
Thanks
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post #9189 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 04:48 PM
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Never had either, but I would say the Marantz piece would be favored most people here on the forums. The fact that you listen to 95% movies should be given strong consideration. Both pieces have the latest and greatest Audyssey room correction. (XT 32)
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post #9190 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gskinusa View Post

Hi
Quick question for the owners of AV8801 who might have used Integra 80.2. I currently have Integra 80.2 and I am happy with it. Now as part of working on the dedicated home theater I have got height and wides set up, so looking at some 11.2 pre amps. I currently only have 9 speakers but will be adding 2 more in another 6 months or so. The question I have is, how would you compare Integra 80.2 with Marantz AV8801.

Is it in the same level and only I would gain 2 more speakers?
Is Marantz AV8801 better than Integra 80.2?

FYI: From usage perspective, it would be 95% movies and 5% music.

The other equipments I have are:
Canton Ergo 690 DC (Front Left and Right)
Canton Ergo 655 (Front Center)
Canton Ergo 610 (left/right height or wide speakers)
Klipsch RS52 (side/rear left/right surrounds)
SVS PB13 Ultra Subwoofer
All are driven through Emotiva amps (XPA 5 and XPA 3)

Please provide your thoughts. Your help is appreciated.
Thanks

I went from an 80.2 to an 8801 and haven't regretted it one bit. My system is over 95% for movies and TV and I think it's well worth the money.

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post #9191 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 07:03 PM
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Some like to analyze hyper precise/resolving sound and I prefer/enjoy organic tunes full of harmonic energy that I hear from instruments like piano.

AlxG

OK, so you prefer your material in sort of an individual, let's call it less than accurate and therefore very hard to quantify type of way. Nothing wrong with that. There is a whole world of tube coloring stuff/amplifiers out there it's just that it's not very scientific for a Science Forum to discuss differences in poetic but totally subjective terminology. I like all kinds of subjective banter. It's fun to read people's opinions about equipment. Sometimes I like a piece of equipment because it has a pleasant front panel, nice knobs or a nice way of spinning a knob.

When you go deep into the subjective stuff, I like to call that out. And if you think the DAC in some Myrtle Wood enclosed DAC is sweeter, fluffier, or crunchier...... I'm fine with that but....... Others will always want data points. Finally, how do you know manufacturers of DAC's, components, chips, etc... All do your two tone test? I still don't understand the technology but is there some kind of two tone test standard or club or is there a two tone police? I jest, but blanket comments demand silly responses.
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post #9192 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhooper1963 View Post

Never had either, but I would say the Marantz piece would be favored most people here on the forums. The fact that you listen to 95% movies should be given strong consideration. Both pieces have the latest and greatest Audyssey room correction. (XT 32)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

I went from an 80.2 to an 8801 and haven't regretted it one bit. My system is over 95% for movies and TV and I think it's well worth the money.

Thank you. Now I am looking for a good deal to get this smile.gif.
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post #9193 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Some like to analyze hyper precise/resolving sound and I prefer/enjoy organic tunes full of harmonic energy that I hear from instruments like piano.

AlxG

OK, so you prefer your material in sort of an individual, let's call it less than accurate and therefore very hard to quantify type of way. Nothing wrong with that. There is a whole world of tube coloring stuff/amplifiers out there it's just that it's not very scientific for a Science Forum to discuss differences in poetic but totally subjective terminology. I like all kinds of subjective banter. It's fun to read people's opinions about equipment. Sometimes I like a piece of equipment because it has a pleasant front panel, nice knobs or a nice way of spinning a knob.

When you go deep into the subjective stuff, I like to call that out. And if you think the DAC in some Myrtle Wood enclosed DAC is sweeter, fluffier, or crunchier...... I'm fine with that but....... Others will always want data points. Finally, how do you know manufacturers of DAC's, components, chips, etc... All do your two tone test? I still don't understand the technology but is there some kind of two tone test standard or club or is there a two tone police? I jest, but blanket comments demand silly responses.

I think you mistook his point. He's saying that the rich harmonics IS part of the real sound - and he used a real life piano vs a recording of the piano to illustrate this.

I also agree with his points that measurements which tend to be steady state measurements don't often tell the full story about how we hear - where we seem (evolution dictated) to be more aware of sudden transients.
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post #9194 of 11842 Old 11-18-2013, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Some like to analyze hyper precise/resolving sound and I prefer/enjoy organic tunes full of harmonic energy that I hear from instruments like piano.

AlxG

OK, so you prefer your material in sort of an individual, let's call it less than accurate and therefore very hard to quantify type of way. Nothing wrong with that. There is a whole world of tube coloring stuff/amplifiers out there it's just that it's not very scientific for a Science Forum to discuss differences in poetic but totally subjective terminology. I like all kinds of subjective banter. It's fun to read people's opinions about equipment. Sometimes I like a piece of equipment because it has a pleasant front panel, nice knobs or a nice way of spinning a knob.

When you go deep into the subjective stuff, I like to call that out. And if you think the DAC in some Myrtle Wood enclosed DAC is sweeter, fluffier, or crunchier...... I'm fine with that but....... Others will always want data points. Finally, how do you know manufacturers of DAC's, components, chips, etc... All do your two tone test? I still don't understand the technology but is there some kind of two tone test standard or club or is there a two tone police? I jest, but blanket comments demand silly responses.

Some of us understand exactly what he's saying and if you don't then, why ask for an explanation of something you might not accept as an answer. I thought he posted good info both objectively and subjectively and both are science wink.gif
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post #9195 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

AlxG.

First, I don't understand pretty much anything you are typing. I admit that, I don't even know what a 2 tone intermodulation test is. Doesn't Audyssey use something other than 2 tone testing of course I am ignorantly guessing wthat you consder 2 tone?

I also don't get the Piano analogy and most importantly, it's relationship with the never ending DAC debate. How does a live Mono source (There is only one piano, granted transmitting sound in different directions ) have anything to do with DAC analysis (and dare I say, perhaps cables) have much to do with anything? I do get the ultmate goal is to get your equipment to sound as close to what the recording studio wants it to sound like. You also have to assume the studio who recorded wants to have the material as close to the real source as possible. Not always the case, I'd imagine.

So, other than you want your audio system to sound as close to your piano as possible, how does that have anything to do with the DAC argument? I think you are making. Very confused.

2-tone intermodulation is used for testing linearity of electronics devices specifically amplified signal chains and have nothing to do with Audyssey room correction. My point is that not all DACs sound the same because of various design topoligies, reconstruction filters and analog out stages. Since Kbarnes701 brought up the topic of "accurate sound reproduction", I responded by stating that I don't know of any signal acquisition tool that can 100% accurately capture complex signal without adding its own artifacts. And the 2-tone test method that is used for testing DACs certain does not contribute towards validating DAC's overall quality.

Some like to analyze hyper precise/resolving sound and I prefer/enjoy organic tunes full of harmonic energy that I hear from instruments like piano.

 

Just backtracking a little, a couple of us have asked how you made those tests of yours double blind. Care to tell us?

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post #9196 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 04:15 AM
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Thank you. Now I am looking for a good deal to get this smile.gif.



Check out AVS sales for a good deal. AVS member jdsmoothie is an AVS sales rep.
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post #9197 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 08:40 AM
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I've had my 8801 for about a week now and I'm still adjusting a few things here and there to get it how I want it, but so far, in the little time I've spent with it, it's been terrific. Seems to be less buggy than the Onkyo 3009 I had (which wasn't too bad) and I love the clean look of the faceplate with the glowing blue circle. I'll finally have time to play with it a little more this weekend, but for what I paid (~45% off MSRP) I don't think there's anything that can touch it's performance.
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post #9198 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 09:31 AM
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I've had my 8801 for about a week now and I'm still adjusting a few things here and there to get it how I want it, but so far, in the little time I've spent with it, it's been terrific. Seems to be less buggy than the Onkyo 3009 I had (which wasn't too bad) and I love the clean look of the faceplate with the glowing blue circle. I'll finally have time to play with it a little more this weekend, but for what I paid (~45% off MSRP) I don't think there's anything that can touch it's performance.



Congrats and welcome to the 8801 club. By the way I agree unequivocally wink.gif
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post #9199 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 09:48 AM
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Congrats and welcome to the 8801 club. By the way I agree unequivocally wink.gif

Thanks. I went from a Marantz, to the Onkyo, and now back to Marantz. I highly doubt I'll be leaving again smile.gif
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post #9200 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 09:54 AM
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Thanks. I went from a Marantz, to the Onkyo, and now back to Marantz. I highly doubt I'll be leaving again smile.gif



Me neither, it's been the first thing I look at when I walk in the door for close to a year now. Unless my gf is there smile.gif
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post #9201 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 09:57 AM
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Me neither, it's been the first thing I look at when I walk in the door for close to a year now. Unless my gf is there smile.gif

I hear that. biggrin.gif

Although if her backs turned I might sneak a peak first wink.gif
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post #9202 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

Thanks. I went from a Marantz, to the Onkyo, and now back to Marantz. I highly doubt I'll be leaving again smile.gif



Me neither, it's been the first thing I look at when I walk in the door for close to a year now. Unless my gf is there smile.gif

 

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Me neither, it's been the first thing I look at when I walk in the door for close to a year now. Unless my gf is there smile.gif

I hear that. biggrin.gif

Although if her backs turned I might sneak a peak first wink.gif

 

 

:eek:  And anyways, what are you doing sneaking into Comfy's house when he isn’t there, and peeking at his GF? :)

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post #9203 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 10:55 AM
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Audiofan1.

Science would state Brand X DAC was tested by someone like Audio Precision to closer track an audio signal within a certain frequency range than Brand Y DAC. The lab also confirmed it had superior SNR, THD, and 2nd and 3rd order Harmonics. (Provable stuff). Then one would overlay what and if the difference can be actually heard by a human in a controlled environment. Kind of like the question, Can you tell the difference between 99.9% perfect and 99.99%? We would look to the test results for answers; not discuss whether or not we "feel" a two tone testing method was or was not utilized by the manufacturer of the DAC and how that test "might" distort results. It is subjective to imply that such a testing method is inferior without quoted scientific proof that the testing method itself is flawed.

Subjective includes words such as "fluid, harmonious, cheesy, velvety, nut filled, etc..." I still like subjective; however, when someone offers up a Scientific (sounding) response to a subjective "sense or feeling", that's where you lose me.

Find tested proof of a DAC being wildly superior and I will buy into that. I still think speakers, room treatment, EQ correction matter the most for accurate and enjoyable listening. There is a great deal of proof to my beliefs; darn near nothing on DAC mythology. I also don't think the copper bottom of the Marantz actually does much to improve sound quality. As an example Kyocera use to have a nice line of audio equipment but on a ceramic base. Kyocera actually means "Built On Ceramics". Onkyo and Denon went on to partner with Audyssey and this technology helped those two vendors survive; ceramic bottoms - not so much. Copper is a marketing-Marantz thing. Next will we be looking at soldering compounds and calling the different types of solder the reason we hear differences in an AVR or component? Will we call out the solder as the reason one device sounds better than another - all without proof?

Finally, if two tone testing is not good to use, what is then? I actually went and researched this test methodology and there is some argument that this method is superior to other options. (admittedly out of my knowledge base). Site experts who would concur with the OP's preferred testing methodology. (which was not actually mentioned - not very scientific).

I don't mean to offend and I love subjective. It's just in these recent thread posts, some science words and concepts appear to be utilized to justify a very subjective opinion.
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post #9204 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Audiofan1.

Science would state Brand X DAC was tested by someone like Audio Precision to closer track an audio signal within a certain frequency range than Brand Y DAC. The lab also confirmed it had superior SNR, THD, and 2nd and 3rd order Harmonics. (Provable stuff). Then one would overlay what and if the difference can be actually heard by a human in a controlled environment. Kind of like the question, Can you tell the difference between 99.9% perfect and 99.99%? We would look to the test results for answers; not discuss whether or not we "feel" a two tone testing method was or was not utilized by the manufacturer of the DAC and how that test "might" distort results. It is subjective to imply that such a testing method is inferior without quoted scientific proof that the testing method itself is flawed.

Subjective includes words such as "fluid, harmonious, cheesy, velvety, nut filled, etc..." I still like subjective; however, when someone offers up a Scientific (sounding) response to a subjective "sense or feeling", that's where you lose me.

Find tested proof of a DAC being wildly superior and I will buy into that. I still think speakers, room treatment, EQ correction matter the most for accurate and enjoyable listening. There is a great deal of proof to my beliefs; darn near nothing on DAC mythology. I also don't think the copper bottom of the Marantz actually does much to improve sound quality. As an example Kyocera use to have a nice line of audio equipment but on a ceramic base. Kyocera actually means "Built On Ceramics". Onkyo and Denon went on to partner with Audyssey and this technology helped those two vendors survive; ceramic bottoms - not so much. Copper is a marketing-Marantz thing. Next will we be looking at soldering compounds and calling the different types of solder the reason we hear differences in an AVR or component? Will we call out the solder as the reason one device sounds better than another - all without proof?

Finally, if two tone testing is not good to use, what is then? I actually went and researched this test methodology and there is some argument that this method is superior to other options. (admittedly out of my knowledge base). Site experts who would concur with the OP's preferred testing methodology. (which was not actually mentioned - not very scientific).

I don't mean to offend and I love subjective. It's just in these recent thread posts, some science words and concepts appear to be utilized to justify a very subjective opinion.

Yes, but the copper bottom on the AV8801 adds to its smooth and buttery sound. (The internet hub is on the wrong side of that plate) tongue.gif
The center foot on Yamaha Aventage room those unwanted resonances of other products.
Turning off the display on the display on all products improves the sound.

There is a lot of questionable features on all products.

Since I can dramatically alter the sound using the BDP-105 DAC by altering the driver even when all bypass the windows mixer, handling the data stream is important.
This could be a large factor in reported differences in the sound of otherwise similar performing DACs.

- Rich

Oppo Beta Group

Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A51 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
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post #9205 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Audiofan1.

Science would state Brand X DAC was tested by someone like Audio Precision to closer track an audio signal within a certain frequency range than Brand Y DAC. The lab also confirmed it had superior SNR, THD, and 2nd and 3rd order Harmonics. (Provable stuff). Then one would overlay what and if the difference can be actually heard by a human in a controlled environment. Kind of like the question, Can you tell the difference between 99.9% perfect and 99.99%? We would look to the test results for answers; not discuss whether or not we "feel" a two tone testing method was or was not utilized by the manufacturer of the DAC and how that test "might" distort results. It is subjective to imply that such a testing method is inferior without quoted scientific proof that the testing method itself is flawed.

Subjective includes words such as "fluid, harmonious, cheesy, velvety, nut filled, etc..." I still like subjective; however, when someone offers up a Scientific (sounding) response to a subjective "sense or feeling", that's where you lose me.

Find tested proof of a DAC being wildly superior and I will buy into that. I still think speakers, room treatment, EQ correction matter the most for accurate and enjoyable listening. There is a great deal of proof to my beliefs; darn near nothing on DAC mythology. I also don't think the copper bottom of the Marantz actually does much to improve sound quality. As an example Kyocera use to have a nice line of audio equipment but on a ceramic base. Kyocera actually means "Built On Ceramics". Onkyo and Denon went on to partner with Audyssey and this technology helped those two vendors survive; ceramic bottoms - not so much. Copper is a marketing-Marantz thing. Next will we be looking at soldering compounds and calling the different types of solder the reason we hear differences in an AVR or component? Will we call out the solder as the reason one device sounds better than another - all without proof?

Finally, if two tone testing is not good to use, what is then? I actually went and researched this test methodology and there is some argument that this method is superior to other options. (admittedly out of my knowledge base). Site experts who would concur with the OP's preferred testing methodology. (which was not actually mentioned - not very scientific).

I don't mean to offend and I love subjective. It's just in these recent thread posts, some science words and concepts appear to be utilized to justify a very subjective opinion.

 

Great post. +1

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post #9206 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 12:16 PM
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eek.gif   And anyways, what are you doing sneaking into Comfy's house when he isn’t there, and peeking at his GF? smile.gif

Hey, I was just there for the 8801. I can't help it if she crosses my sight lines eek.gif
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post #9207 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 01:49 PM
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Going home early to install the 8801. Bored at work and the Preamplifier can' t be just sitting there any longer!!!! Yippee!
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post #9208 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 02:01 PM
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eek.gif   And anyways, what are you doing sneaking into Comfy's house when he isn’t there, and peeking at his GF? smile.gif



Lol!
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post #9209 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 04:52 PM
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After being married 22 years the 8801 is the first thing I look at! No questions asked!!
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post #9210 of 11842 Old 11-19-2013, 05:23 PM
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After being married 22 years the 8801 is the first thing I look at! No questions asked!!

Sounds like the thrill is gone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXsusJ787sU

Edwin R. Hurd
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