Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 319 - AVS Forum
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post #9541 of 11874 Old 12-19-2013, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Simple SU View Post

I have not posted in a while and have not had time to read through the posts. I have an 8801 and I have an OPPO BDP-105 and an OPPO BDP-83SE connected to 2 different hdmi inputs. After the last firmware update, I have started to get a fuzzy picture from both of these 1080p components. I have everything running through hdmi out to a JVC DLA-RS4810 projector. The only other source connected is a DirecTV box and I never have any fuzz/video noise from that source. I have another hdmi run straight from the BDP105 to the projector and I have no picture issues. Is anyone else having this issue and is there a fix for it?



I found your post and don't have any experience with projectors. If your going through the 8801 via HDMI maybe try turning some of the Marantz's video processing on or off. I'm not much of a help hear sorry. Maybe someone else can chime in.
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post #9542 of 11874 Old 12-19-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I have been looking all over the forums and online to find out why i am having a minor issue with lip syncing. I can make the adjust ment to audio delay but I am confused to why this is happening when the prepro had an auto adjust function. The degree of synching ranges from perfect to poor depending on the cable program. I have only seen one bluray do it and it was Jingle all the way. I have a Panasonic ZT65 and an oppo bdp. To get it mostly synced up its at 4 ms. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!



I have the ST60 and there have been around 6 cases of lip sync issues on the owners thread over the last couple of months. It seems like it's mainly with cable. What do they say on the ZT thread? Maybe try HDMI straight to the panel and Toslink to the 8801? Have you tried rebooting the set top box or switching the box out? Resetting the 8801?

I don't understand why you're blaming your home equipment for lip-sync timing issues which vary depending on which channel you're watching. The variations in audio/video timing are caused either by the originating station or the cable company when they decode, compress and then re-ncode the incoming audio/video signals.

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post #9543 of 11874 Old 12-19-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

Just curious. Do any of you use your 8801 for 2 channel music duties on a frequent basis? If so, what are your front l/r speakers and what amp is driving them? I use mine for music daily. Mcintosh MC 252 and Aerial Acoustics 7t's.

I listen almost nightly. Running the 8801 with a sherbourn 7-350 amp (or sunfire 7401) and the Danley sm60F synergy horns. Love it. Really just absolute sonic bliss.

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Can someone confirm if the XLR outputs on the Marantz AV8801 are indeed fully differential and balanced?

Indeed? well no, I do believe we have confirmed the exact opposite. The XLR's are not fully balanced.

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post #9544 of 11874 Old 12-19-2013, 01:25 PM
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The outputs are "fully" balanced in that the output wave forms really are balanced?

Now the circuits from the DAC's to the preamps that feed the outputs may not be balanced completely (don't know). Is this what you mean? If so, who cares? I highly doubt anyone can hear a noise level difference in one "fully" balanced preamp over another. It's a preamp and just doesn't have 32dB of gain like a nice amp does.

By the way, it is good that the Marantz has balanced XLR outputs and they can be more beneficial to use over RCA for short runs, in certain circumstances. This is especially true if you have a true differential amp such as the ATI AT2007. Such amps actually cancel noise produced in the amplification stage when using the amps XLR inputs. My point is you'd get the same benefit from a "fully" balanced preamp versus a balanced preamp in this respect (the one that can actually affect noise level).
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I listen almost nightly. Running the 8801 with a sherbourn 7-350 amp (or sunfire 7401) and the Danley sm60F synergy horns. Love it. Really just absolute sonic bliss.
Indeed? well no, I do believe we have confirmed the exact opposite. The XLR's are not fully balanced.

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post #9545 of 11874 Old 12-19-2013, 05:10 PM
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I can defintely tell the difference between pre amp and amp related noise. A fully balanced design is the absolute best output stage for a pre-amp... Period.

My speakers at 108db efficiency can allow you to hear a fly farting. Unless you have heard avantgarde speakers, you wouldn't believe me.

With my pass labs xa30.5 amp plugged into my speakers and active i hear NO hiss. The amp is about as perfect as an amp can get. Read stereophile's review of it for reference. As soon as the integra 80.3 is plugged in (with xlr cables) there is an immediate background hiss in the room that can only be heard from my horns and not out of lower sensitivity surround speakers.

I am hoping that the marantz 8801 has fully balanced output stages with the XLR output just like the previous poster mentioned. Also I hope the output stage is quiet as a tomb when nothing is playing.

I will be able to post a definite review comparison with the integra 80.3 as soon as i get my used marantz 8801 and plug it all in! NOTHING can fool you with the avantgarde speakers.

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post #9546 of 11874 Old 12-19-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I can defintely tell the difference between pre amp and amp related noise. A fully balanced design is the absolute best output stage for a pre-amp... Period.

My speakers at 108db efficiency can allow you to hear a fly farting. Unless you have heard avantgarde speakers, you wouldn't believe me.

With my pass labs xa30.5 amp plugged into my speakers and active i hear NO hiss. The amp is about as perfect as an amp can get. Read stereophile's review of it for reference. As soon as the integra 80.3 is plugged in (with xlr cables) there is an immediate background hiss in the room that can only be heard from my horns and not out of lower sensitivity surround speakers.

I am hoping that the marantz 8801 has fully balanced output stages with the XLR output just like the previous poster mentioned. Also I hope the output stage is quiet as a tomb when nothing is playing.

I will be able to post a definite review comparison with the integra 80.3 as soon as i get my used marantz 8801 and plug it all in! NOTHING can fool you with the avantgarde speakers.
Most modern DACS chips have plus and minus outputs for each channel, but it is unlikely that the circuit post DACs is fully balanced. The volume control IC would not be, and most Marantz HDAM circuits are not. Then again, it may be doubtful that a fully balanced circuit would necessarily have less hiss.

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post #9547 of 11874 Old 12-20-2013, 07:17 AM
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Hiss and other distortions vary from unit to unit depending on normal variations in component values and quality. You'll have to actually listen to one (or more) to find out if it's quiet enough for use in your system. No review is going to be able to provide that information.

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post #9548 of 11874 Old 12-20-2013, 09:39 AM
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I
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Hiss and other distortions vary from unit to unit depending on normal variations in component values and quality. You'll have to actually listen to one (or more) to find out if it's quiet enough for use in your system. No review is going to be able to provide that information.

I agree 100% which is why i ordered a used one to give it a go. I dont want to go with a pure mode setup because my speakers and music taste benefit greatly from subwoofer integration which I love with audyssey.

Main Speakers + subwoofer is my preference for most speakers aside from the most massive speakers. Almost no freestanding speaker will gave great bass since you cant position main speakers effectively for bass and imaging at the same time

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post #9549 of 11874 Old 12-20-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Simple SU View Post

I was asking about the previous post I submitted about video noise issues between the Oppo bluray players and the Marantz. Has anyone else been having these issues?

I haven't had a problem with my Oppo 95 playing nice with the AV8801. I go from HDMI1 on the OPPO to the Blu Ray on the AV8801. Pretty much have the Oppo output on auto and I let the AV8801 do the upscaling for me, as necessary.

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post #9550 of 11874 Old 12-20-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by admranger View Post

I haven't had a problem with my Oppo 95 playing nice with the AV8801. I go from HDMI1 on the OPPO to the Blu Ray on the AV8801. Pretty much have the Oppo output on auto and I let the AV8801 do the upscaling for me, as necessary.
You do have to set up the AV8801 for video upscaling for each individual source plugged into it, so you might want to check each to make sure its doing what you're expecting and wanting - for each source input individually.

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post #9551 of 11874 Old 12-20-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

You do have to set up the AV8801 for video upscaling for each individual source plugged into it, so you might want to check each to make sure its doing what you're expecting and wanting - for each source input individually.

Thanks! Good info.

One problem trough, my CD isn't upscaling to 4k sound! eek.gif


biggrin.gif



[just kidding on the CD, just in case anyone is unsure….]

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post #9552 of 11874 Old 12-20-2013, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I
I agree 100% which is why i ordered a used one to give it a go. I dont want to go with a pure mode setup because my speakers and music taste benefit greatly from subwoofer integration which I love with audyssey.

Main Speakers + subwoofer is my preference for most speakers aside from the most massive speakers. Almost no freestanding speaker will gave great bass since you cant position main speakers effectively for bass and imaging at the same time

It can be done but takes a great deal of time and a little know how, it also doesn't hurt if they weigh less than a 100 lbs. I 'll go as far as saying if your mains are dialed in right all else falls into place better than not wink.gif
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post #9553 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 07:24 AM
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[/B]
It can be done but takes a great deal of time and a little know how, it also doesn't hurt if they weigh less than a 100 lbs. I 'll go as far as saying if your mains are dialed in right all else falls into place better than not wink.gif

 

It also takes a degree of good fortune as it can be impossible in some room setups.

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post #9554 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 07:44 AM
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^^^
Like my room Kal, but I'll take Audyssey/Marantz wanting to run them as full range as a thumbs up as far as placement goes wink.gif
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post #9555 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 08:45 AM
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^^^
Like my room Kal, but I'll take Audyssey/Marantz wanting to run them as full range as a thumbs up as far as placement goes wink.gif

Yup.


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post #9556 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 01:55 PM
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Agreed! and if in a living room, an accommodating spouse can play a huge role as well wink.gif
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post #9557 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 02:55 PM
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Agreed! and if in a living room, an accommodating spouse can play a huge role as well wink.gif

+1
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post #9558 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 04:16 PM
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This is hard to compare without ensuring output sensitivities are compatible. It may be that padding is needed to better match the preamp to the rest of your system (assuming the amplifier is very sensitive as are your speakers). Any padding will attenuate the noise floor you are hearing from the preamp getting rid of your issue without affecting sound quality. I know on the AV8801, I needed to add -15dB of balanced padding to get my La Scala II's close to 0 level in Audyssey using my very sensitive ATI AT2007 amp. This 15dB of attenuation got rid of any hiss I could hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I can defintely tell the difference between pre amp and amp related noise. A fully balanced design is the absolute best output stage for a pre-amp... Period.

My speakers at 108db efficiency can allow you to hear a fly farting. Unless you have heard avantgarde speakers, you wouldn't believe me.

With my pass labs xa30.5 amp plugged into my speakers and active i hear NO hiss. The amp is about as perfect as an amp can get. Read stereophile's review of it for reference. As soon as the integra 80.3 is plugged in (with xlr cables) there is an immediate background hiss in the room that can only be heard from my horns and not out of lower sensitivity surround speakers.

I am hoping that the marantz 8801 has fully balanced output stages with the XLR output just like the previous poster mentioned. Also I hope the output stage is quiet as a tomb when nothing is playing.

I will be able to post a definite review comparison with the integra 80.3 as soon as i get my used marantz 8801 and plug it all in! NOTHING can fool you with the avantgarde speakers.

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post #9559 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 07:11 PM
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Agreed! and if in a living room, an accommodating spouse can play a huge role as well wink.gif

So very, very true. Fortunately, I married pretty well indeed! biggrin.gif

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post #9560 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

This is hard to compare without ensuring output sensitivities are compatible. It may be that padding is needed to better match the preamp to the rest of your system (assuming the amplifier is very sensitive as are your speakers). Any padding will attenuate the noise floor you are hearing from the preamp getting rid of your issue without affecting sound quality. I know on the AV8801, I needed to add -15dB of balanced padding to get my La Scala II's close to 0 level in Audyssey using my very sensitive ATI AT2007 amp. This 15dB of attenuation got rid of any hiss I could hear.

Thanks excellent advice and I have already done -10db pads from my integra 80.3 to both my main speakers. This way i did not have to make extreme adjustments for the rest of my speakers which dont have the same extreme high sensitivity.

Pads are a great idea which i learned about from advice on these forums.

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post #9561 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 08:00 PM
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After using my 8801 for a month, I'm repeatedly running into a very annoying situation with HDMI audio muting until I power cycle either the AV8801 or the TV. My display is a Panasonic P55VT50. When it's in this state, the analog inputs still work fine, and the video is still being displayed and scaled. Because this goes away if I force another handshake by either power cycling the display or the unit, I'm suspicious this might be an interop problem between the two. The problem isn't source specific, and it happens on my satellite receiver, Oppo BDP-95, and the audio return channel from the TV. I haven't used my Apple TV or XBox-360 enough times yet to notice if it happens with those devices, but it's probably reasonable to assume it could.

 

Is anyone else running a similar series Panasonic display over HDMI not seeing this? I need to either return my unit or report an incompatibility to Marantz.

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Originally Posted by PaulForgey View Post

After using my 8801 for a month, I'm repeatedly running into a very annoying situation with HDMI audio muting until I power cycle either the AV8801 or the TV. My display is a Panasonic P55VT50. When it's in this state, the analog inputs still work fine, and the video is still being displayed and scaled. Because this goes away if I force another handshake by either power cycling the display or the unit, I'm suspicious this might be an interop problem between the two. The problem isn't source specific, and it happens on my satellite receiver, Oppo BDP-95, and the audio return channel from the TV. I haven't used my Apple TV or XBox-360 enough times yet to notice if it happens with those devices, but it's probably reasonable to assume it could.

Is anyone else running a similar series Panasonic display over HDMI not seeing this? I need to either return my unit or report an incompatibility to Marantz.

These posts are making me very nervous about my marantz that i ordered used this week. Until its all setup and working, im gonna be sweating bullets... Worst case scenario i sell it.

Blazar!
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post #9563 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 08:22 PM
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These posts are making me very nervous about my marantz that i ordered used this week. Until its all setup and working, im gonna be sweating bullets... Worst case scenario i sell it.

It's a great unit and I love it. By "return" I meant if there was a defect with the unit needing replacement.

 

Also note HDMI is a severe PITA to interop, so no matter which vendors you go with, unless you with all the same vendor (even that's no guarantee), there's a high risk of running into interop problems. If they are bad enough, they'll hopefully get addressed with firmware updates.

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post #9564 of 11874 Old 12-21-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulForgey View Post
 

It's a great unit and I love it. By "return" I meant if there was a defect with the unit needing replacement.

 

Also note HDMI is a severe PITA to interop, so no matter which vendors you go with, unless you with all the same vendor (even that's no guarantee), there's a high risk of running into interop problems. If they are bad enough, they'll hopefully get addressed with firmware updates.

Yes, there can be interoperative issues with the HDMI handshaking.  However, I have used and reviewed a fair number of prepros and AVRs with a cable box and disc players (never the same vendor as the DUT) on the input and my Fujistu plasma on the output without any problems and that suggests these issues are not so common as you suggest.


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post #9565 of 11874 Old 12-22-2013, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulForgey View Post

After using my 8801 for a month, I'm repeatedly running into a very annoying situation with HDMI audio muting until I power cycle either the AV8801 or the TV. My display is a Panasonic P55VT50. When it's in this state, the analog inputs still work fine, and the video is still being displayed and scaled. Because this goes away if I force another handshake by either power cycling the display or the unit, I'm suspicious this might be an interop problem between the two. The problem isn't source specific, and it happens on my satellite receiver, Oppo BDP-95, and the audio return channel from the TV. I haven't used my Apple TV or XBox-360 enough times yet to notice if it happens with those devices, but it's probably reasonable to assume it could.

Is anyone else running a similar series Panasonic display over HDMI not seeing this? I need to either return my unit or report an incompatibility to Marantz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

These posts are making me very nervous about my marantz that i ordered used this week. Until its all setup and working, im gonna be sweating bullets... Worst case scenario i sell it.



Paul,I have the Panny ST60 and have no problems in this area with the 8801.
blazar don't be nervous, you have to take into account that half the people that post on these threads post because of problems and the vast majority of us have no problems. So far Marantz has fixed and or replaced any "bad" units and has good customer service IMO smile.gif
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post #9566 of 11874 Old 12-22-2013, 07:07 AM
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Yes my integra 80.3 i have now doesnt connect with 3D from my oppo to my projector. Direct to projector works fine. I swapped all cables and whatnot to no avail.

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post #9567 of 11874 Old 12-22-2013, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulForgey View Post

After using my 8801 for a month, I'm repeatedly running into a very annoying situation with HDMI audio muting until I power cycle either the AV8801 or the TV. My display is a Panasonic P55VT50. When it's in this state, the analog inputs still work fine, and the video is still being displayed and scaled. Because this goes away if I force another handshake by either power cycling the display or the unit, I'm suspicious this might be an interop problem between the two. The problem isn't source specific, and it happens on my satellite receiver, Oppo BDP-95, and the audio return channel from the TV. I haven't used my Apple TV or XBox-360 enough times yet to notice if it happens with those devices, but it's probably reasonable to assume it could.

Is anyone else running a similar series Panasonic display over HDMI not seeing this? I need to either return my unit or report an incompatibility to Marantz.

I had the same problem which I solved by increasing the time between powering on the display and then powering on the Marantz and subsequent input device.

David Ferebee
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post #9568 of 11874 Old 12-22-2013, 03:28 PM
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Hey everyone. I've been reviewing the 8801 and I'm seriously thinking of buying one soon to upgrade from my Pioneer Elite VSX-53. I'm looking for suggestions on amps. My budget is about 3 grand for amps and would preferit covers 11 channels. Any thoughts on 2 emotiva XPA5s and a single XPA2 for my mains which are Def Tech 8060 towers 92db sensitivity. Im guessing I won't need 300 watts for my mains since they have built in amps, however I want to have plenty of headroom in case I ever move to non-powered mains. Center channel is Def Tech clr20002, surrounds 8040BP. Only running 5.1 but will expand once I get a bigger house...wife said I can put whatever I want in the basement smile.gifsmile.gif
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post #9569 of 11874 Old 12-22-2013, 03:50 PM
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How close do you have to be to hear the hiss? On my AV8801 before -15dB of padding, I could hear the hiss 3-4 feet away. However, the amp I use has a 1.6v sensitivity and my speakers have a sensitivity of 105dB.

Padding reduced the hiss to where my ear must be <6-8" from the tweeter's horn to hear it. This seems acceptable to me. If you're ok with that, I'm pretty sure you could pad the output of the AV8801 and get close to the same results. Other than hiss (when your ear is near the tweeter), I don't think you'll hear any discernible difference between a fully balanced preamp and the AV8801 from the MLP.
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Thanks excellent advice and I have already done -10db pads from my integra 80.3 to both my main speakers. This way i did not have to make extreme adjustments for the rest of my speakers which dont have the same extreme high sensitivity.

Pads are a great idea which i learned about from advice on these forums.

Premise, a FREE home automation program. Open-source Z-Wave Premise Module found here.
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post #9570 of 11874 Old 12-22-2013, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

I had the same problem which I solved by increasing the time between powering on the display and then powering on the Marantz and subsequent input device.

Oh nice idea, maybe youre on to something

Blazar!
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