Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 331 - AVS Forum
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post #9901 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

Hi comfy!
I'm using the '8801 with an older (about late '80s vintage) Yamaha belt drive turntable with a just as old Signet MM cartridge, and the phono pre-amp section sound just fine.
I play vinyl a few times a month, and it sounds great, but I still prefer the convenience of CDs or FLAC files...don't have to 'flip 'em over' every six tracks! wink.gif



Hey MN, yeah it's hard to deny the convenience of CD's and music on a server. I was just wondering if I needed a phono preamp or if the 8801 would be ok. Thanks smile.gif
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post #9902 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Who is using the 8801 with a turntable? I'm thinking about getting back into vinyl and looking for impressions on how the 8801 works with it. Just when I resolved to not spend much money in 2014 biggrin.gif

The good news is that a turntable does not require a sizable investment. I occasionally use my 80's Jvc direct drive turntable with very good results.

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post #9903 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

The good news is that a turntable does not require a sizable investment. I occasionally use my 80's Jvc direct drive turntable with very good results.



Hi, I know the prices can get crazy but I don't want to spend a fortune. Like you said your results are good without spending that much. How do think the 8801 works as a turntable preamp, and is a different than the other inputs, in other words made for turntables?
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post #9904 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 04:26 PM
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Yes, it is a dedicated "phono" input. Turntables put out very low voltage and the phono input compensates for it.

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post #9905 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

Yes, it is a dedicated "phono" input. Turntables put out very low voltage and the phono input compensates for it.



Thanks for that and now I just have to find the right turntable smile.gif
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post #9906 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

Not sure what you mean by "front and REAR heights" since heights only consist of 2 speakers which should be placed above your front left and right main speakers.your Oppo can not pass height or wide content to your 8801,that has to be processed by the 8801 itself.

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Originally Posted by exm View Post

Steps:
1. Rerun Audyssey. Make sure Audyssey "sees/hears" your new speakers
2. When completed, review the speakers settings to adjust crossovers if necessary
3. Use DPLIIz, Audyssey DSX or DTS NEO:X for 9.2 surround

That should do it!

Thanks guys I did re-run Audyssey when I aded the front heights and now I found the DSX switch Thanks so much!

Thanks, Vince


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post #9907 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 08:28 PM
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I am getting great results with the Marantz 8801 for 2.1 audio with playback via Main + LFE. Compared to the Audyssey "Stereo" version, the "Direct" mode worked out better.

Because my JL Audio F212 subwoofers are sitting right next to my main speakers (Avantgarde Acoustics Duo Omega), I was able to cross over the mains at 80hz in the receiver and not affect stereo imaging.

I have 4 more subwoofers (BG Radia's BGX-4850) in-wall around the room that I have dialed in below 40hz only to help balance the room response. I didn't want the sound to be localizable and mess with the 2.1 stereo imaging.

My only complaint is the relatively high hiss/hum from the marantz 8801. It is unlikely that most other users are bothered by this but the high sensitivity midrange and tweeter of my main speakers make this somewhat annoying if the system is idling. Power conditioner or not, filtered outlet or not, nothing has eliminated this problem with the 8801 and I suspect it is simply an aspect of the design that doesn't affect 99% of users of the marantz. The Integra 80.3 that I just replaced also has this problem but the volume of the noise is lower and not noticeable unless you get closer to the speakers than the listening position.

Besides this minor gripe, the overall sound I have achieved is certainly the best I have ever had or ever heard anywhere so far.

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post #9908 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I am getting great results with the Marantz 8801 for 2.1 audio with playback via Main + LFE. Compared to the Audyssey "Stereo" version, the "Direct" mode worked out better.

Because my JL Audio F212 subwoofers are sitting right next to my main speakers (Avantgarde Acoustics Duo Omega), I was able to cross over the mains at 80hz in the receiver and not affect stereo imaging.

I have 4 more subwoofers (BG Radia's BGX-4850) in-wall around the room that I have dialed in below 40hz only to help balance the room response. I didn't want the sound to be localizable and mess with the 2.1 stereo imaging.

My only complaint is the relatively high hiss/hum from the marantz 8801. It is unlikely that most other users are bothered by this but the high sensitivity midrange and tweeter of my main speakers make this somewhat annoying if the system is idling. Power conditioner or not, filtered outlet or not, nothing has eliminated this problem with the 8801 and I suspect it is simply an aspect of the design that doesn't affect 99% of users of the marantz. The Integra 80.3 that I just replaced also has this problem but the volume of the noise is lower and not noticeable unless you get closer to the speakers than the listening position.

Besides this minor gripe, the overall sound I have achieved is certainly the best I have ever had or ever heard anywhere so far.

What else is in the chain amps, source etc.. and are you using xlr or rca?
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post #9909 of 12127 Old 01-08-2014, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Thanks for that and now I just have to find the right turntable smile.gif
Pick yourself up a Entry to mid model Rega with a MM cart, easy to setup and can modify to improve sound if you get into it. I run a Rega P3-24 with orfton 2M black and works a treat with the 8801, if you get into MC carts you'll need to get a phono amp or if you fall into the vinyl rabbit hole
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post #9910 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hey MN, yeah it's hard to deny the convenience of CD's and music on a server. I was just wondering if I needed a phono preamp or if the 8801 would be ok. Thanks smile.gif

The 8801 has a PHONO input that can work with MC/MM cartridges. You might need to adjust the Phono input setting depending on the cart you use.

Most older carts are high output Moving Magnet designs which can deliver a signal of around 100-150mV. There are also low output moving magnet designs which have outputs of around 0.15mV, so the phono preamp also needs to apply a larger gain, in addition to providing the RIAA EQ curve for records.

*there are also high output moving coil designs
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post #9911 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I am getting great results with the Marantz 8801 for 2.1 audio with playback via Main + LFE. Compared to the Audyssey "Stereo" version, the "Direct" mode worked out better.

Because my JL Audio F212 subwoofers are sitting right next to my main speakers (Avantgarde Acoustics Duo Omega), I was able to cross over the mains at 80hz in the receiver and not affect stereo imaging.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am 99% sure the mains crossover is NOT active when in Direct Mode. Only the bass management for the sub(s) is active in Direct Mode AFAIK.

 

Your hiss is definitely because of your high sensitivity speakers, horns are not always a blessing :-D


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post #9912 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 03:43 AM
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^^
It is when the sub is set to LFE+MAIN. smile.gif

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post #9913 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
It is when the sub is set to LFE+MAIN. smile.gif


Interesting... Though it defeats the "direct" idea, since it is no longer direct.. Very strange behavior, but I do see why it can be useful :D


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post #9914 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
It is when the sub is set to LFE+MAIN. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjazdk View Post


Interesting... Though it defeats the "direct" idea, since it is no longer direct.. Very strange behavior, but I do see why it can be useful biggrin.gif

... and LFE+MAIN is in effect in Pure Direct mode as well.

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post #9915 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 06:54 AM
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Note that the setting "LFE+MAIN" does not affect the signals going to the main speakers. To that extent, they are still getting the full "Direct" signal.

It only copies to the subwoofer those frequencies which are below the specified crossover frequency. (Of course, it actually copies reducing levels of higher frequencies above the crossover, since it isn't a brick-wall filter.)
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post #9916 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewa View Post

Pick yourself up a Entry to mid model Rega with a MM cart, easy to setup and can modify to improve sound if you get into it. I run a Rega P3-24 with orfton 2M black and works a treat with the 8801, if you get into MC carts you'll need to get a phono amp or if you fall into the vinyl rabbit hole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

The 8801 has a PHONO input that can work with MC/MM cartridges. You might need to adjust the Phono input setting depending on the cart you use.

Most older carts are high output Moving Magnet designs which can deliver a signal of around 100-150mV. There are also low output moving magnet designs which have outputs of around 0.15mV, so the phono preamp also needs to apply a larger gain, in addition to providing the RIAA EQ curve for records.

*there are also high output moving coil designs



Thanks for the info and I'm going to look into this before I take the leap.
What would work best a higher output cartridge or a lower one?
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post #9917 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjazdk View Post
 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am 99% sure the mains crossover is NOT active when in Direct Mode. Only the bass management for the sub(s) is active in Direct Mode AFAIK.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
It is when the sub is set to LFE+MAIN. smile.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Note that the setting "LFE+MAIN" does not affect the signals going to the main speakers. To that extent, they are still getting the full "Direct" signal.

It only copies to the subwoofer those frequencies which are below the specified crossover frequency. (Of course, it actually copies reducing levels of higher frequencies above the crossover, since it isn't a brick-wall filter.)

 

That is also my impression, but apparently there are differing opinions on the subject?!?

 

I think I will do a little OmniMic measuring when I get home, to clear up the AV8801 behavior in that regard.


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post #9918 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjazdk View Post


Interesting... Though it defeats the "direct" idea, since it is no longer direct.. Very strange behavior, but I do see why it can be useful biggrin.gif

Yeah direct in that the crossover math is done in digital domain but the midrange spectrum i care most about is still excellent without any EQ.

Its almost impossible to get great bass response in 2.0 given the issues with room interaction with bass range frequencies.

A true audiophile purist would have perfect subs in the main speakers AND a perfect room specifically treated and sized to solve all problems. This is 99% impossible except in a sound lab or pure luck.

Your main speakers have crossovers too so by definition the signal is not "pure" anyway. I think we have to live with crossovers for now....

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post #9919 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 11:36 AM
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All of a sudden, the Airplay function has stopped working on my 8801. I can't get it to work from either my iPhone 5 or iTunes from my laptop. Everything was fine yesterday and I've not changed any settings. I've already reset the router and modem. Internet radio works fine on the unit and I can play music from my laptop using Windows Media player through the Network menu.

Any ideas?
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post #9920 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 11:54 AM
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To clear up any misunderstanding as to how LFE+Main works in Direct or Pure Direct Mode, I made a few measurements with OmniMic.

 

 

From these it is pretty obvious that there is NO crossover active on the main channels when in Direct or Pure Direct with LFE+Main enabled and the main speakers set to small. The crossover frequency is solely used for the subwoofer crossover.

 

Just for clarification the curve called "LFE+Main@100Hz NO-SUB" is the interesting one. LFE+Main is enabled and main speakers are set to small (100Hz). My subwoofer was turned off for this measurement.


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post #9921 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 01:01 PM
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There is a new audiophile AV Processor, namely Yamaha's AVENTAGE CX-A5000 Processor for $2,500.
I think it is as good as the Marantz AV8801.
33 Digital Sound Processor modes, including a Bathroom at the Vatican in Italy Mode.
Similar in specs as the AV8801.
I think it is something to consider if someone is looking to spend over $2,000 for their next AV Processor anyway.
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post #9922 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjazdk View Post

To clear up any misunderstanding as to how LFE+Main works in Direct or Pure Direct Mode, I made a few measurements with OmniMic.

[plot omitted by s.b.]

From these it is pretty obvious that there is NO crossover active on the main channels when in Direct or Pure Direct with LFE+Main enabled and the main speakers set to small. The crossover frequency is solely used for the subwoofer crossover.

Just for clarification the curve called "LFE+Main@100Hz NO-SUB" is the interesting one. LFE+Main is enabled and main speakers are set to small (100Hz). My subwoofer was turned off for this measurement.

I'm somewhat confused by your last paragraph.
1. Do you mean that you powered off or disconnected the subwoofer itself? (I assume so, but just to be clear)
2. Were Direct or Pure Direct selected? (That's my assumption, considering the intent of your tests.)
If so,
a) that would make the choice of "Small" irrelevant, since Direct disables bass management
b) your speakers have highly capable woofers!

If neither Direct nor Pure Direct were selected, then bass management would be enabled and...
a) without the subwoofer the sound below 60 Hz should be falling off rapidly, so...
b) where are the lowest frequencies (below about 40 Hz) coming from?

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post #9923 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I'm somewhat confused by your last paragraph.
1. Do you mean that you powered off or disconnected the subwoofer itself? (I assume so, but just to be clear)
2. Were Direct or Pure Direct selected? (That's my assumption, considering the intent of your tests.)
If so,
a) that would make the choice of "Small" irrelevant, since Direct disables bass management
b) your speakers have highly capable woofers!

If neither Direct nor Pure Direct were selected, then bass management would be enabled and...
a) without the subwoofer the sound below 60 Hz should be falling off rapidly, so...
b) where are the lowest frequencies (below about 40 Hz) coming from?

 

I will answer as well as I can (English is not my first language, sorry).

1. Yes, my subwoofers where powered off.

2. I tried both Direct and Pure Direct, with the exact same result. The actual measurement is in Direct.

a) Agreed, and that was what I wanted to show, since there where people in this thread claiming that the mains would still have a high pass filter enabled in Direct and Pure Direct Mode. The only bass management that is active in Direct and Pure Direct, is the subwoofer management.

b) 2x12" woofers pr. side and active filtering. 300W (tweeter+midranges) + 1000W (2x12") amplification.

 

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Source: HTPC
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PA: April Music Stello S200 (GD1 >130Hz), 2x ICEpower 1000ASP (GD1 <130Hz), 2x ICEpower ASP1000 (Subs), Marantz MM8077 (Rear+Center+Back)
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post #9924 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 02:51 PM
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Thank you very much for actually measuring! I will likely need to use the filter on my actual speakers to better setup the crossover.

Direct mode for 2.1 doesn't help much if the small setting does nothing... My results aren't bad at this point overall but I will need to get a condenser mic and software to better measure and make adjustments

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post #9925 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 03:35 PM
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Just bought 2 home theater recline seat, have to run the audyssey xt32 again on my marantz av8801, The first few position I can keep a distance of around 30cm between the seat back, but how about the last 7th and 8th position, it will be at the back of my home theater seat which block the the sound from the front speaker.
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post #9926 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 03:40 PM
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Just bought 2 home theater recline seat, have to run the audyssey xt32 again on my marantz av8801, The first few position I can keep a distance of around 30cm between the seat back, but how about the last 7th and 8th position, it will be at the back of my home theater seat which block the the sound from the front speaker.



Hi, just raise the mic up a bit so it clears the back of the seat. I raised move up approx 2" for the same reason.
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post #9927 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 03:42 PM
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Hi, just raise the mic up a bit so it clears the back of the seat. I raised move up approx 2" for the same reason.

Thanks. Let me try tonight, but I have to raise at least 4".
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post #9928 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 05:38 PM
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I put my Audyssey mike on a camera tripod so it's at ear level while calabrating. Speaking of running audyssey, I only make measurements from four of seven seats figuring it would help provide a better stereo presentation in my main listening seat. I use my system more often for music than films. Does that make any sense?

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post #9929 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pwong888 View Post

Thanks. Let me try tonight, but I have to raise at least 4".



As long as you can see the speakers from those two spots your good and not to close to the seat back.
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post #9930 of 12127 Old 01-09-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

I put my Audyssey mike on a camera tripod so it's at ear level while calabrating. Speaking of running audyssey, I only make measurements from four of seven seats figuring it would help provide a better stereo presentation in my main listening seat. I use my system more often for music than films. Does that make any sense?



I'm kind of an Audyssey beginner and posting on the Audyssey thread would be more informative. It does but IMO you should do all 8 measurements. Try different patterns, maybe do a traditional 8 point pattern but spread out a little more. If your mainly music and want the best sound from your seat I'd do a tight pattern centered around your chair. I've done this and it works well.
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