Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 349 - AVS Forum
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post #10441 of 12294 Old 02-07-2014, 06:44 PM
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I'm not Comfy, but Integra claims that the 80.3's amplifier section has a Signal to Noise Ratio of 110dB when using line-level inputs, and 80dB when using its phono input. See page 104 of its owner's manual.

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post #10442 of 12294 Old 02-07-2014, 08:01 PM
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One thing I saw when with 5.1 SACD or DSD in general is that the LPF on the sub channel is greyed out and fixed at 250Hz. Is this Normal with SACD DSD?
I think it is trying to tell you that there's no LPF applied. DSD does not support DSP.

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post #10443 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 04:09 AM
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If there is no way to put digital audio (non hdmi) to zone 2? I noticed the Marantz can play to all zones in stereo mode (party mode) but then it drives my surround channels in the main zone as well. Strange setup. If digital can't be done is there a way to play music from mac mini hdmi to main zone 2 analog output?

tricky but, could I route the mediaplayer output to an given input let's say (aux1) en listen aux 1 in zone 2. Does the mediaplayer output, output signal from an digital (non hdmi) input?

What can be played in a second zone of all my sources are digital? Am I missing something? That pretty useless?

cheers.

I hope it needs some burn-in time. There's nog big difference with my old 3808 connected tot a NAD m25 (to b&w speakers). I was considering the NAD m15 hd2 als pre but heard that the successor is coming around this summer. Still contemplating to bring the 8801 back..it's lacking some bite in my opinon.
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post #10444 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 06:13 AM
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Unfortunately, no, the 8801 doesn't have direct support for sending digital signals to its Zone 2 analog outputs. As you've found, all-channel-stereo is the only way to do it. Otherwise, you need to provide analog connections from the devices that you want forwarded to Zone 2.

Sending two-channel PCM to Zone 2 was introduced by D&M in the current model year (2013), so it's in the SR 7008 receiver. One can hope that downmixing of multichannel digital audio to stereo in Zone 2 might be available in the upcoming model year (2014), but an 8801 replacement isn't expected until October.

Unfortunately, audiophile terms like "bite" don't help to determine what's lacking in your audio. You need to use a spectrum analyzer like OmniMic or REW to find out exactly what's not right. Then you can address it.

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post #10445 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 06:21 AM
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Thx for your reply!

Strange, it's looks like the routing is there. If one uses "party mode" stereo signal from a digitale source is being send to all zones...my old 3808 could do it. smile.gif. If there would be a additional pre out from the main zone in stereo and you'd put it back in a source, say aux2. Then the problem would be solved. Does anyone know what the media player output is putting out?

grts
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post #10446 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gertjand View Post

If there is no way to put digital audio (non hdmi) to zone 2? I noticed the Marantz can play to all zones in stereo mode (party mode) but then it drives my surround channels in the main zone as well. Strange setup. If digital can't be done is there a way to play music from mac mini hdmi to main zone 2 analog output?

tricky but, could I route the mediaplayer output to an given input let's say (aux1) en listen aux 1 in zone 2. Does the mediaplayer output, output signal from an digital (non hdmi) input?

What can be played in a second zone of all my sources are digital? Am I missing something? That pretty useless?

cheers.

I hope it needs some burn-in time. There's nog big difference with my old 3808 connected tot a NAD m25 (to b&w speakers). I was considering the NAD m15 hd2 als pre but heard that the successor is coming around this summer. Still contemplating to bring the 8801 back..it's lacking some bite in my opinon.

Unlike your 3808CI which can pass PCM 2.0 over optical/digital coax to Zones 2/3, when D&M introduced the Zone 4 (HDMI) monitor out on the 8801 they chose to remove this feature on the 2012 models and then brought it back again with the 2013 models. Your best bet with the mac mini would be to pass the audio through a converter like the one below from forum sponsor Monoprice. The Media Player analog output will pass an analog input source signal as well as the source selected for Zone 2.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=7112&seq=1&format=2

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post #10447 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 07:17 AM
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ok...ugly. Anbody who knows what the output of the rca media player is and if it's assignable? If there is a 2 channel stereo output from the main zone beside the pre out then a reroute would be possible. Otherwise it has to go back frown.gif. What's a comparable AVR processor than can send 2 channel PCM to zone 2 analog output?

Was looking at the NAD M51 dac. would be an option but that one doesn't pass HDMI 5.1 to the avr.

thx again!
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post #10448 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 07:33 AM
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D&M models are among the only models that can pass PCM 2.0 to Zone 2. Media Player analog output is from an analog input or what is assigned to Zone 2. The analog "inputs" are assignable. Also note that a USB source (iPhone or NAS) will also pass to Zone 2. I overlooked the non-HDMI requirement so the converter below is more likely what you would want to use ...

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?seq=1&format=2&p_id=6884&CAWELAID=1329453854&catargetid=320013720000010661&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CPekrKjgvLwCFdHm7AodlyQAAQ
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post #10449 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 07:40 AM
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hey thx again. So my samsung tv sends tv audio back via HDMI arc. Can't send that audio to zone 2 (can be done in party mode but than the sound in the mainzone is not surround anymore, the same audio is send to all channels).

I don't completely understand what you mean with what signal is coming out the mediaplayer output. If it's the same audio out as the audio being send to the 2 front channels in the main zone, then that would be a solution? (to route it back in as analog and select that source for the second zone).

Or is it just impossible?

many thx!
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post #10450 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 07:49 AM
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"The source selected for ZONE2 is also output from the recording output connectors (MEDIA PLAYER)." rtfm frown.gif. That's a shame. If this would be the main zone, it would have been a livesaver!
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post #10451 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 08:05 AM
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@ JDSMoothie, thanks for helping out! I choose the 8801 for it's DAC's, among other things. Don't want to add seperate dacs....The Mac Mini can only send audio to one source. HDMI or optical out... (there are fixed for that with soundflower) but other members of my family should be able to listen some music and watch movies as well smile.gif
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post #10452 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gertjand View Post

If there is no way to put digital audio (non hdmi) to zone 2? I noticed the Marantz can play to all zones in stereo mode (party mode) but then it drives my surround channels in the main zone as well. Strange setup. If digital can't be done is there a way to play music from mac mini hdmi to main zone 2 analog output?

tricky but, could I route the mediaplayer output to an given input let's say (aux1) en listen aux 1 in zone 2. Does the mediaplayer output, output signal from an digital (non hdmi) input?

What can be played in a second zone of all my sources are digital? Am I missing something? That pretty useless?

cheers.

I hope it needs some burn-in time. There's nog big difference with my old 3808 connected tot a NAD m25 (to b&w speakers). I was considering the NAD m15 hd2 als pre but heard that the successor is coming around this summer. Still contemplating to bring the 8801 back..it's lacking some bite in my opinon.

Where did you hear about the M15 HD2 successor???
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post #10453 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by gertjand View Post

Just hooked up my new marantz 8801. I getting a little worried smile.gif. It seems I can't play my sonos digital audio to zone 2. My old denon 3808 could do that? I am missing something?
has to be a configuration issue. So AV8801 has no "bite"?
Please explain smile.gif
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post #10454 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Just to clarify, your article lists the 8801 as using the PCM-1796 (24/192kHz) DAC; however, the service manual lists the PCM-1795 (32/192kHz) DAC.
I'm looking for the service manual for the AV8801. Can you tell me where to get it?

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post #10455 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 12:35 PM
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hehehe I knew that had to inflict a reaction smile.gif. I was wondering why nobody picked it up. It's calles the m17. Would pair perfectly with my m25 smile.gif. There are imgs but no specs around.

http://www.cepro.com/images/slides/NAD_M17_M27.jpg
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post #10456 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 12:41 PM
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listening to 2 channel stereo I mis some depth and transparency compared to my old setup, maybe expected to much. I noticed a huge increase when changing the power amps from 2 rotel 15 series to NAD M25 but decrease when switching to the 8801. Maybe it needs burning in time? I did run the setup and calibration. Maybe my denon was a little heaver in sending low to the m25. It's all a little flat. I can just turn up the sub but it doesn't make it prettier. Anyone got did a similar switch from denon 3808 tot 8801?

P.S. @ webmonkey, I noticed you are a BI developer. Is that BI in online marketing?
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post #10457 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Unfortunately, no, the 8801 doesn't have direct support for sending digital signals to its Zone 2 analog outputs. As you've found, all-channel-stereo is the only way to do it. Otherwise, you need to provide analog connections from the devices that you want forwarded to Zone 2.

Sending two-channel PCM to Zone 2 was introduced by D&M in the current model year (2013), so it's in the SR 7008 receiver. One can hope that downmixing of multichannel digital audio to stereo in Zone 2 might be available in the upcoming model year (2014), but an 8801 replacement isn't expected until October.

Unfortunately, audiophile terms like "bite" don't help to determine what's lacking in your audio. You need to use a spectrum analyzer like OmniMic or REW to find out exactly what's not right. Then you can address it.

Sure it does smile.gif that's of course assuming you're an Audiophile wink.gif Sure an OmniMic or REW would be nice to help aide in setup but sometimes all that's required is a simple repositioning or toeing of the mains or heaven forbid different cables ( but guess what they don't have to be expensive eek.gif) I would try different values with distances settings and crossover points. Sometimes ( if not most of the time) what works with other setups doesn't always apply to a change by the insertion of a new piece of gear! The 8801's refined non fatiguing sound is capable of delivering staggering dynamic transients and if more Byte ( or leading edge transients) is required I recommend yes letting it burn in and try toeing or untoeing your speakers and if your main distance is off by .5 try less or .5 more! In the end these simple adjustments can be quite profound for dialing in a system wink.gif
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post #10458 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gertjand View Post

listening to 2 channel stereo I mis some depth and transparency compared to my old setup, maybe expected to much. I noticed a huge increase when changing the power amps from 2 rotel 15 series to NAD M25 but decrease when switching to the 8801. Maybe it needs burning in time? I did run the setup and calibration. Maybe my denon was a little heaver in sending low to the m25. It's all a little flat. I can just turn up the sub but it doesn't make it prettier. Anyone got did a similar switch from denon 3808 tot 8801?


See my post above wink.gif
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post #10459 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 12:48 PM
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Sure it does smile.gif that's of course assuming you're an Audiophile wink.gif Sure an OmniMic or REW would be nice to help aide in setup but sometimes all that's required is a simple repositioning or toeing of the mains or heaven forbid different cables ( but guess what they don't have to be expensive eek.gif) I would try different values with distances settings and crossover points. Sometimes ( if not most of the time) what works with other setups doesn't always apply to a change by the insertion of a new piece of gear! The 8801's refined non fatiguing sound is capable of delivering staggering dynamic transients and if more Byte ( or leading edge transients) is required I recommend yes letting it burn in and try toeing or untoeing your speakers and if your main distance is off by .5 try less or .5 more! In the end these simple adjustments can be quite profound for dialing in a system wink.gif

Hey, thx. I'll give it try. I know byte is a pretty vague discription, my apologies smile.gif flat is better probably.
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post #10460 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 01:09 PM
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Hey, thx. I'll give it try. I know byte is a pretty vague discription, my apologies smile.gif flat is better probably.

I understood what you were saying smile.gif and it was a good description wink.gif

And welcome to the club!
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post #10461 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 01:14 PM
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I'm looking for the service manual for the AV8801. Can you tell me where to get it?

You may want to try giving Marantz a call.

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post #10462 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gertjand View Post

Hey, thx. I'll give it try. I know byte is a pretty vague discription, my apologies smile.gif flat is better probably.

I understood what you were saying smile.gif and it was a good description wink.gif

And welcome to the club!

"Clean transients" is another way to say "linear high frequency response". If improved leading edge transients are what you want, then you should try selecting the "Audyssey Flat" option. See page 123 of the 8801's owner's manual. The "Audyssey" option rolls off the highest frequencies to compensate for how movie soundtracks are mixed for use in commercial theaters. It's not necessarily appropriate when listening to music, although some people prefer it.

Another thing to try is enabling "Dynamic EQ" or changing its "Reference Level Offset." See page 124 of the owner's manual. Our hearing is less sensitive to the lowest and highest frequencies at low sound levels. The "Dynamic EQ" option compensates for this by boosting the relative amplitudes of the lowest and, to a lesser extent, the highest frequencies as you turn down the master volume control.

If you disable Dynamic EQ, you also can try the tone controls, although they're relatively crude. See page 124.

Of course, adjusting your speakers' positions and orientations, and installing appropriate room treatments are other ways to improve the quality of what you hear. Don't forget to rerun Audyssey after doing them.
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post #10463 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 01:47 PM
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Does everyone on here leave the audio sync to 0ms? I just notice on some cable programming and some bluray movies the voices seem to be a tad off. Some programs are perfect and some are slightly off. I have all the obvious processing on the tv turned off and have the cable box set to native output. I also have the oppo set to bitstream. Any thoughts?

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Does everyone on here leave the audio sync to 0ms? I just notice on some cable programming and some bluray movies the voices seem to be a tad off. Some programs are perfect and some are slightly off. I have all the obvious processing on the tv turned off and have the cable box set to native output. I also have the oppo set to bitstream. Any thoughts?

I'd too like to know this. I have an Oppo 105 bitstreaming to the 8801. With the Marantz doing the decoding, would you make A/V sync changes in the 8801 or Oppo? I haven't noticed much of a problem until I played the 4 Joe Bonamassa London Blus. They all have noticeable sync issues in my system.

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post #10465 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 02:09 PM
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I'd too like to know this. I have an Oppo 105 bitstreaming to the 8801. With the Marantz doing the decoding, would you make A/V sync changes in the 8801 or Oppo? I haven't noticed much of a problem until I played the 4 Joe Bonamassa London Blus. They all have noticeable sync issues in my system.

Some times a simple pause on the Oppo lines it all back up!
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There's an Auto Lip Sync option that's supposed to compensate, but it isn't always effective. See pages 127 & 178 in the owner's manual. It's on by default. Page 122 describes the Audio Delay setting. Of course, this assumes that a fixed delay is what's needed and not a variable one.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

There's an Auto Lip Sync option that's supposed to compensate, but it isn't always effective. See pages 127 & 178 in the owner's manual. It's on by default. Page 122 describes the Audio Delay setting. Of course, this assumes that a fixed delay is what's needed and not a variable one.

I'm confused to why this is not an issue for many people with the 8801....I thought it should be synced at all times

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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Some times a simple pause on the Oppo lines it all back up!

I'll try that next time audiofan. But if changes are needed, if I'm bitstreaming, are the changes to be made in the 8801?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

There's an Auto Lip Sync option that's supposed to compensate, but it isn't always effective. See pages 127 & 178 in the owner's manual. It's on by default. Page 122 describes the Audio Delay setting. Of course, this assumes that a fixed delay is what's needed and not a variable one.

Page 178 it says the connected TV has to support the auto lip sync function in order to work it sounds like.

-Kevin

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post #10470 of 12294 Old 02-08-2014, 02:22 PM
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If prodding the Oppo doesn't fix the sync, I'd suggest doing it in the Oppo.

The standard problem causing audio not to be synced with video is that the TV's internal video processing can take a different amount of time depending on the processing options you've selected in the TV. What you see is delayed, but what you hear isn't. This causes speech to be heard before the person's lips form the word. Modern TVs can tell the receiver or pre/pro how much time they need to do the processing and a modern receiver or pre/pro (like the 8801) can delay its audio appropriately when Auto Lip Sync is enabled.

When lip sync varies from one cable channel to another, there's not a lot you can do about it unless you want to keep adjusting the delay in the 8801. That sync problem usually is caused by a mis-configuration of the audio and video equipment at the source where the audio/video stream is being compressed. I'd tend to blame it on the station, but the local cable company could be at fault, too.

Selden

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