Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 352 - AVS Forum
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post #10531 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

The only thing that is "Burning In" is your ears changing to the new response.



+1
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post #10532 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

This is really starting to get on my nerves. In the past I had bookshelf speakers and my rear right would distort at low fequencies so I ended up purchasing new floor speakers for the rears and have been playing them at fullband like my fronts. While watching tron at -10db the rear right woofer bottomed out and made the loud firecracker pop noise. I changed the vs to 40 and 60 and no issues what so ever. Why is the marantz sending the strong bass response only to that speaker? Here is my layout. Any help would be great!


Does it do it with different movies?

One thing I noticed is you should bring your towers out past your cabinet by an inch or so. Your getting an unwanted reflection right from the get go.
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post #10533 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by matthewa View Post

Audiofan1 do you have a thread about how you have setup your room to achieve what your hearing

I've posted consistently the changes I've made with 8801 over the course of a year here smile.gif Some of the most important for me, were and is, the foundation of good sound and the first is a treated room ( first reflection points & Bass traps), good speaker placement & seating position within the room ( Toe in, rake , spacing etc..)and clean power unrestricted power ( dedicated lines good cables and power conditioners) If one is of the mind set that cable selection doesn't matter, then this point is moot ! but I take the approach that it all matters and once the big stuff is done the details in between can get that last bit of sought after performance and may indeed surprise one . Ask yourself this and others as well, when installing a new piece of gear,and initially using the same speaker position find the sound different for the good or bad, is it less bass ? are the highs to forward? is the overall sound integrating like the piece it replaced that you may have liked? Now comes the big question how many will readjust their speakers toe in , rake and spacing to either compensate or flesh out the potentially good sound the newer piece of gear may indeed have! How many are willing to try a different cable? Well I do smile.gif and because of such effort and knowing my room and selection of gear ( because of daily use and countless hours of listening, trust me the new gear placebo' wears off quickly) I know a change in my setup and I've gotten down to where I know just what it will take to get the sound just where I want it !

Feel free to pm me for any tips on setup wink.gif

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Originally Posted by Masterkale View Post

No not yet. But heard the cinemike avp and av7005. I send mine 8 of march so half of march i will let you know
How many experience you got with listing?

I have heard many high end setups. Like kef blades, focal grande utopia, marten miles getz django, isophons cassianos.

I have installed serveral audyssey pro calibrations at peoples home, so i am not quite a noob in installing calibrating.

I'm sure that Cinemike mod is great and look forward to your findings on it and your status is not in question wink.gif As for setups I heard many but after many years I can finally come home and enjoy my own system setup just how I like it smile.gif
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post #10534 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 01:19 PM
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Those mains are close together relative to sitting position also. Space apart, move em forward, toe in a bit.
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post #10535 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

This is really starting to get on my nerves. In the past I had bookshelf speakers and my rear right would distort at low fequencies so I ended up purchasing new floor speakers for the rears and have been playing them at fullband like my fronts. While watching tron at -10db the rear right woofer bottomed out and made the loud firecracker pop noise. I changed the vs to 40 and 60 and no issues what so ever. Why is the marantz sending the strong bass response only to that speaker? Here is my layout. Any help would be great!
Tron is hot and does clip, I noticed the same thing on one of the Transformers movies and think the distortion is imbedeed in the sound track itself even after raising the crossover to 120hz for my rear speaker to confirm.Is it on all movies/

And sweet clean setup smile.gif
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post #10536 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Does it do it with different movies?

One thing I noticed is you should bring your towers out past your cabinet by an inch or so. Your getting an unwanted reflection right from the get go.

Thanks for the tip!!! This is the first I have noticed with this new setup. Happened a lot when I had bookshelf speakers. When I swap the speaker connections on the amp it follows the channel (rear left affected when in rear right amp slot). Now I need to swap xlr to see if it's the preamp.

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post #10537 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Those mains are close together relative to sitting position also. Space apart, move em forward, toe in a bit.

I will defiantly move those! Thanks!

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post #10538 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

Thanks for the tip!!! This is the first I have noticed with this new setup. Happened a lot when I had bookshelf speakers. When I swap the speaker connections on the amp it follows the channel (rear left affected when in rear right amp slot). Now I need to swap xlr to see if it's the preamp.



No problem. If your sure it's not the disc or amp I'd call Marantz customer service, if it's broke they'll fix it.
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post #10539 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

No problem. If your sure it's not the disc or amp I'd call Marantz customer service, if it's broke they'll fix it.

I did call and they said it should not do that and to further investigate. When I turn the volume down to -15hz it doesn't pop...that wouldn't be the disc then correct?

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post #10540 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

This is really starting to get on my nerves. In the past I had bookshelf speakers and my rear right would distort at low fequencies so I ended up purchasing new floor speakers for the rears and have been playing them at fullband like my fronts. While watching tron at -10db the rear right woofer bottomed out and made the loud firecracker pop noise. I changed the vs to 40 and 60 and no issues what so ever. Why is the marantz sending the strong bass response only to that speaker? Here is my layout. Any help would be great!
Some movies have powerful low frequency (and other) signals sent to the surrounds - that cannon blast from the rear/left in Master & Commander is a good example! eek.gif
Those new rears you have - though not being bookshelf/smaller types - still don't look full-range capable, so I'd still set those to crossover at about 25-30Hz above their specified low end capability (measured at -3db).
I couldn't tell if you said they were damaged by that experience, but it sounds like they escaped okay...(?).

One other suggestion I would have would be to pull that couch away from that back wall a bit. I assume that's your primary listening position, and you're going to get some weird/bad reverb right against the wall like that. Nice looking set up over all though! smile.gif

The Insane Pink Care Bear's Home Theater Set Up:

Marantz AV 8801 Processor, Emotiva XPR-5 Amplifier, Panasonic 65" ST30 Plasma, Yamaha BD-S2900 Blu-ray, Yamaha CDC-697 CD Player, Yamaha TT-500U Turntable, w/Signet TK5e, JBL ES100 Fronts, JBL LC2 Center, JBL ES30 Surrounds & 2 JBL ES250P Subwoofers
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post #10541 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 02:46 PM
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.

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Marantz MM8077
Martin Logan Motion 30 Center Channel
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Oppo BDP-103D
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post #10542 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

Some movies have powerful low frequency (and other) signals sent to the surrounds - that cannon blast from the rear/left in Master & Commander is a good example! eek.gif
Those new rears you have - though not being bookshelf/smaller types - still don't look full-range capable, so I'd still set those to crossover at about 25-30Hz above their specified low end capability (measured at -3db).
I couldn't tell if you said they were damaged by that experience, but it sounds like they escaped okay...(?).

One other suggestion I would have would be to pull that couch away from that back wall a bit. I assume that's your primary listening position, and you're going to get some weird/bad reverb right against the wall like that. Nice looking set up over all though! smile.gif
Thanks for the help! Wouldn't audyssey set them to small though? That's why I am confused... At 40 and 60 hz there is no issue. And I think my speaker made it out fine (after 3 trial runs...). No smell and still good sound. Speaker is only 1 month old.

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post #10543 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 02:48 PM
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Luv the Heat saw them in concert several times! Nice set-up!
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post #10544 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

Thanks for the help! Wouldn't audyssey set them to small though? That's why I am confused... At 40 and 60 hz there is no issue. And I think my speaker made it out fine (after 3 trial runs...). No smell and still good sound. Speaker is only 1 month old.
Those auto-set up programs (including Audyssey) always seem to set some speakers as 'large' when they shouldn't be - so look at your speakers specs, find their low end capability (to -3db where they're usually measured to), and set them to "Small", and their crossover at about 25 to 30Hz *ABOVE* that specified low-end point.
The only time problems occur is when one tries to change the crossover to LOWER than that set by the auto-room correction software.
If you have a test CD with frequency level tracks that might be a good idea to test them and make sure that one (especially) is still reproducing the full range above your (new) crossover setting.

The Insane Pink Care Bear's Home Theater Set Up:

Marantz AV 8801 Processor, Emotiva XPR-5 Amplifier, Panasonic 65" ST30 Plasma, Yamaha BD-S2900 Blu-ray, Yamaha CDC-697 CD Player, Yamaha TT-500U Turntable, w/Signet TK5e, JBL ES100 Fronts, JBL LC2 Center, JBL ES30 Surrounds & 2 JBL ES250P Subwoofers
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post #10545 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

Those auto-set up programs (including Audyssey) always seem to set some speakers as 'large' when they shouldn't be - so look at your speakers specs, find their low end capability (to -3db where they're usually measured to), and set them to "Small", and their crossover at about 25 to 30Hz *ABOVE* that specified low-end point.
The only time problems occur is when one tries to change the crossover to LOWER than that set by the auto-room correction software.
If you have a test CD with frequency level tracks that might be a good idea to test them and make sure that one (especially) is still reproducing the full range above your (new) crossover setting.

I changed the crossover to 80hz (speakers rated at 40hz) and it sounded a tad flat so i changed them to 60hz with great results and no loud pop. I left the LPF for LFE at 80hz and it sounds great.

I still dont know if that pop was due to running the speakers to low or if there is a problem wth the amp or preamp. The reason I am wondering is because its only that right rear channel doing it. Also...the people at Magnolia say that those speakers should run large with no issue and Marantz says they shouldnt pop (Marantz does not know anything about the speakers). What crossover range is neede to run large? Should I continue to dig or just leave it?eek.gif

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60
Marantz AV8801
Marantz MM8077
Martin Logan Motion 30 Center Channel
Martin Logan Motion 40 Fronts/Rears
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post #10546 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

Those auto-set up programs (including Audyssey) always seem to set some speakers as 'large' when they shouldn't be - so look at your speakers specs, find their low end capability (to -3db where they're usually measured to), and set them to "Small", and their crossover at about 25 to 30Hz *ABOVE* that specified low-end point.
The only time problems occur is when one tries to change the crossover to LOWER than that set by the auto-room correction software.
If you have a test CD with frequency level tracks that might be a good idea to test them and make sure that one (especially) is still reproducing the full range above your (new) crossover setting.

Another question: REL states that because the high level connection is tapped into the front right and left channels they NEED to be set at full range so they get the full range of bass from the processor. Now im confused on what to do....

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60
Marantz AV8801
Marantz MM8077
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post #10547 of 11874 Old 02-14-2014, 11:32 PM
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The simple way to explain it given no other fault in your system is..if your speaker setting is set to LARGE, there is still bass below the cut off freq set hence thats probably the reason why the speaker "groan". To save your speakers from prematured VC failure, set the speaker to SMALL and cut off freq at 60Hz and let your subwoofer does its job at "pumping" you smile.gif
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post #10548 of 11874 Old 02-15-2014, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I changed the crossover to 80hz (speakers rated at 40hz) and it sounded a tad flat so i changed them to 60hz with great results and no loud pop. I left the LPF for LFE at 80hz and it sounds great.

I still dont know if that pop was due to running the speakers to low or if there is a problem wth the amp or preamp. The reason I am wondering is because its only that right rear channel doing it. Also...the people at Magnolia say that those speakers should run large with no issue and Marantz says they shouldnt pop (Marantz does not know anything about the speakers). What crossover range is neede to run large? Should I continue to dig or just leave it?eek.gif

Check the REL sub thread as I believe this indeed has come up before, and don't settle for 60hz try 90hz ,100hz and so on while content is playing you may be surprised at what will work best and if its 60hz in the end then leave it. And one thing to keep in mind when the crossover setting are determined by the 8801 placement of each speaker is also a factor! room gain is also a major contributor to frequency response wink.gif

Here's a post from an 8801 /Rel owner and what he did hope it helps
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefarber View Post

I'll tell you what I did to integrate my Rel R-528 into my system with excellent results:

- Set the LOW PASS FILTER (LPF) on your Receiver to 250 (or to its highest setting).
- Follow Rel's instructions for proper room placement, crossover and level setting. This is a very delicate process requiring lots of patience and experimentation. Do not use Audyssey during this part of the process.
- UNHOOK the Neutrik Speakon connection to the Rel, but leave in the .1 connection.
- Run Audyssey
- Make sure Mains are set to LARGE.
- RE-CONNECT the Neutrik Speakon Connection.

I arrived at this after lots of research. I love how my system sounds now. I chose the Rel because I play two-channel music through my Mac Mini via a USB DAC connected to my Marantz 8801 in Pure Direct mode and I want to have deep bass from the sub even without bass management coming from the Pre/Pro (since it's in Pure Direct).

Hopefully this works for you as well. Good luck!
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post #10549 of 11874 Old 02-15-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Check the REL sub thread as I believe this indeed has come up before, and don't settle for 60hz try 90hz ,100hz and so on while content is playing you may be surprised at what will work best and if its 60hz in the end then leave it. And one thing to keep in mind when the crossover setting are determined by the 8801 placement of each speaker is also a factor! room gain is also a major contributor to frequency response wink.gif

Here's a post from an 8801 /Rel owner and what he did hope it helps

Would it be bad to leave the fronts large and set the rears to 60hz?

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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Tron is hot and does clip, I noticed the same thing on one of the Transformers movies and think the distortion is imbedeed in the sound track itself even after raising the crossover to 120hz for my rear speaker to confirm.Is it on all movies/

And sweet clean setup smile.gif

Thanks! Should I have the subs on the inside of the mains?

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60
Marantz AV8801
Marantz MM8077
Martin Logan Motion 30 Center Channel
Martin Logan Motion 40 Fronts/Rears
REL R-528 SE (2)
Oppo BDP-103D
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post #10551 of 11874 Old 02-15-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I changed the crossover to 80hz (speakers rated at 40hz) and it sounded a tad flat so i changed them to 60hz with great results and no loud pop. I left the LPF for LFE at 80hz and it sounds great.

I still dont know if that pop was due to running the speakers to low or if there is a problem wth the amp or preamp. The reason I am wondering is because its only that right rear channel doing it. Also...the people at Magnolia say that those speakers should run large with no issue and Marantz says they shouldnt pop (Marantz does not know anything about the speakers). What crossover range is neede to run large? Should I continue to dig or just leave it?eek.gif
Is this 'loud pop' you're hearing part of the movie soundtrack (sounded like it from your original post, but now you're making it sound like its not...?).
If part of the soundtrack (does it only do at that point, and with that movie only?), maybe its a defective disc and that noise isn't supposed to be there?
Try other movies (Blu-rays) with known good dynamics and then judge what you're hearing.

Also, don't always trust what the salespeople at Magnolia tell you, they're typically not 'into it' enough to really know...and no speaker rated down to 40Hz should be run as "Large" when you have a subwoofer available.

The Insane Pink Care Bear's Home Theater Set Up:

Marantz AV 8801 Processor, Emotiva XPR-5 Amplifier, Panasonic 65" ST30 Plasma, Yamaha BD-S2900 Blu-ray, Yamaha CDC-697 CD Player, Yamaha TT-500U Turntable, w/Signet TK5e, JBL ES100 Fronts, JBL LC2 Center, JBL ES30 Surrounds & 2 JBL ES250P Subwoofers
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post #10552 of 11874 Old 02-15-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

Another question: REL states that because the high level connection is tapped into the front right and left channels they NEED to be set at full range so they get the full range of bass from the processor. Now im confused on what to do....
^ What audiofan1 said...smile.gif

The Insane Pink Care Bear's Home Theater Set Up:

Marantz AV 8801 Processor, Emotiva XPR-5 Amplifier, Panasonic 65" ST30 Plasma, Yamaha BD-S2900 Blu-ray, Yamaha CDC-697 CD Player, Yamaha TT-500U Turntable, w/Signet TK5e, JBL ES100 Fronts, JBL LC2 Center, JBL ES30 Surrounds & 2 JBL ES250P Subwoofers
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post #10553 of 11874 Old 02-15-2014, 10:33 AM
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Thanks! Should I have the subs on the inside of the mains?

Only one way to find out and that's put them there ! While at it, pull the mains forward a bit as suggested earlier, with the subs pushed back more as this will help the mains indeed sound better . the great thing about dual subs is an overall smoother frequency response for the room and I would suggest raising the crossover to 80hz first and trying 60hz and so on as well, i started out with my mains at full range but know cross them a 40hz for movies and multi/ch music but 80 can work well as well here. So let those wonderful Rel's handle the bass wink.gif
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post #10554 of 11874 Old 02-15-2014, 04:46 PM
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It's been a fun few days, I decided to pick up a cheap D-A in lieu of replacing my Oppo 93 with a 105 anyhow got a TEAC UD-H01, seems it uses a known problem filled USB receiver chipset and has buggy firmware and is a pain in Linux, which my mpd music server is, anyhow a few days later and various kernel re-compiles and a couple different versions of Linux music servers I had it, 44K was ok 96K was not listenable at all. Today I picked up a Cambridge DacMagic Plus and reset up my Voyage MPD server and as well as raspyfi on my raspberrypi and I have to say, I am completely in AWE with the sound quality.

The DAC is amazing in every respect, I am running from my nas to the raspberrypi (raspyfi1.0) then USB into the Dacmagic PLUS (in USB 2.0 mode) then balanced out to the 8801 (pure direct) everything in my system just WOKE UP. clarity, depth, sound stage, bass response I think this is a close to tubes as I will ever get without buying tubes, I was blown away previously with the SQ now I find myself falling in love with all my music all over again. If this Dac has a burn in period it can only get better. The teac dac I had to listen at -10 to -5 db and now I am listening at .-18 to -25db the same or louder output and finding I still turn it down a little. It is just Beautiful - The sound I was looking for finally. OH and I picked up a kimber USB audio cable and I can actually here a difference between it and a decent hi-speed usb cable, which is hard for me to admit as I am only a level up from using lamp cord wire - LOL.

So I rip my Cd's at level 5 to flac in dbpoweramp, has anyone ripped at level 8 to no compression; is there a SQ difference or does it just take more space?

rgds,

Dave
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post #10555 of 11874 Old 02-15-2014, 05:00 PM
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So I rip my Cd's at level 5 to flac in dbpoweramp, has anyone ripped at level 8 to no compression; is there a SQ difference or does it just take more space?

FLAC is lossless so level 8 might save some bits but IMO it is not worth the trouble. There is very little difference.

- Rich

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post #10556 of 11874 Old 02-15-2014, 07:58 PM
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It's been a fun few days, I decided to pick up a cheap D-A in lieu of replacing my Oppo 93 with a 105 anyhow got a TEAC UD-H01, seems it uses a known problem filled USB receiver chipset and has buggy firmware and is a pain in Linux, which my mpd music server is, anyhow a few days later and various kernel re-compiles and a couple different versions of Linux music servers I had it, 44K was ok 96K was not listenable at all. Today I picked up a Cambridge DacMagic Plus and reset up my Voyage MPD server and as well as raspyfi on my raspberrypi and I have to say, I am completely in AWE with the sound quality.

The DAC is amazing in every respect, I am running from my nas to the raspberrypi (raspyfi1.0) then USB into the Dacmagic PLUS (in USB 2.0 mode) then balanced out to the 8801 (pure direct) everything in my system just WOKE UP. clarity, depth, sound stage, bass response I think this is a close to tubes as I will ever get without buying tubes, I was blown away previously with the SQ now I find myself falling in love with all my music all over again. If this Dac has a burn in period it can only get better. The teac dac I had to listen at -10 to -5 db and now I am listening at .-18 to -25db the same or louder output and finding I still turn it down a little. It is just Beautiful - The sound I was looking for finally. OH and I picked up a kimber USB audio cable and I can actually here a difference between it and a decent hi-speed usb cable, which is hard for me to admit as I am only a level up from using lamp cord wire - LOL.

So I rip my Cd's at level 5 to flac in dbpoweramp, has anyone ripped at level 8 to no compression; is there a SQ difference or does it just take more space?

rgds,

Dave

Lossless is lossless... Modern decoding eats a flac for breakfast with no latency.

Personally i use apple lossless instead of flac for a really simple reason... It works with almost every device made including car integration without issues. The itunes tagging structure is unfortunately industry standard... Despite the fact that it doesnt support multi artist or multi genre tagging.

Blazar!
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post #10557 of 11874 Old 02-16-2014, 02:37 AM
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Here's my new lossless format;
A Marantz 6200 Turntable to go with my 8801;



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post #10558 of 11874 Old 02-16-2014, 06:07 AM
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Unfortunately, that particular storage medium becomes more and more lossy with time. (The grooves gradually get worn down.) frown.gif

Selden
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post #10559 of 11874 Old 02-16-2014, 09:05 AM
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Here's my new lossless format;
A Marantz 6200 Turntable to go with my 8801;



Is that a 'vintage' unit?
Because it looks A LOT like the direct drive Pioneer PL-71 TT that I owned back in the mid/late-70's! smile.gif

The Insane Pink Care Bear's Home Theater Set Up:

Marantz AV 8801 Processor, Emotiva XPR-5 Amplifier, Panasonic 65" ST30 Plasma, Yamaha BD-S2900 Blu-ray, Yamaha CDC-697 CD Player, Yamaha TT-500U Turntable, w/Signet TK5e, JBL ES100 Fronts, JBL LC2 Center, JBL ES30 Surrounds & 2 JBL ES250P Subwoofers
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post #10560 of 11874 Old 02-16-2014, 12:05 PM
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Tron is hot and does clip, I noticed the same thing on one of the Transformers movies and think the distortion is imbedeed in the sound track itself even after raising the crossover to 120hz for my rear speaker to confirm.Is it on all movies/

And sweet clean setup smile.gif

Thanks! Should I have the subs on the inside of the mains?

This is what I did with my set-up and have good results.

http://www.avsforum.com/g/i/331388/a/2245036/please-join-and-post-what-speakers-you-have/sort/display_order

Ray

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