Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 432 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12931 of 12945 Unread 07-28-2015, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by orcrone View Post
Got it. Thanks. I'm beginning to think that it I should just use the front height speakers all the time.
Instead of turning them off, why not just choose an audio mode that doesn't use them.

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post #12932 of 12945 Unread 07-29-2015, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by orcrone View Post
Why would that turn off Audyssey? Is it because I'd be running Audyssey and then removing two speakers - using a different configuration than when Audyssey was run.
It won't.

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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
Yup. When you change the speaker configuration, Audyssey usually bows out unless you run another calibration.
Note that simply setting a speaker to None should not turn off Audyssey as would changing the AMP ASSIGN setting.

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post #12933 of 12945 Unread 07-29-2015, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Note that simply setting a speaker to None should not turn off Audyssey as would changing the AMP ASSIGN setting.
If you say so. I vaguely recall some issues with that but I have not tried it in quite some time.

I do wonder why the OP cannot simply avoid modes that use the height channels.

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post #12934 of 12945 Unread 07-29-2015, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
If you say so. I vaguely recall some issues with that but I have not tried it in quite some time.

I do wonder why the OP cannot simply avoid modes that use the height channels.
Perhaps I need to think this through some more. The height channels are driven by the SpeakerCraft amp which sucks some power and gets fairly hot. The amp is brought out of STANDBY using one of the 8801's triggers. Avoiding modes that use the height channels will kill the height channel outputs of the 8801 but the trigger will still turn on the amp... unless I use the amp's auto sensing instead of the trigger input. Duh!!! I'll give this a try.
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post #12935 of 12945 Unread 07-29-2015, 08:51 AM
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Do height and wide matrixed channels really add anything? I've never been a fan of extra DSP. If it isnt discrete, I dont mess with it, am I missing out?
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post #12936 of 12945 Unread 07-29-2015, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Ou8thisSN View Post
Do height and wide matrixed channels really add anything? I've never been a fan of extra DSP. If it isnt discrete, I dont mess with it, am I missing out?
It is purely personal preference. I was running a full 11.1 configuration prior to implementing Dirac Live with a MiniDSP DDRC-88A, which is a 7.1 solution. For action movies, the extra channels would provide some improvement in the experience. For music, I never used the extra channels. Since down-sizing to a 7.1 configuration, I have never for a moment missed the Heights or Wide speakers.
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post #12937 of 12945 Unread 07-29-2015, 09:09 AM
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Do height and wide matrixed channels really add anything? I've never been a fan of extra DSP. If it isnt discrete, I dont mess with it, am I missing out?
I do find that the height speakers add something when playing the right source material. I watched some scenes that occur during the final battle of the Avengers movie with and without the height speakers and it expanded the audio vertically. With that said it would not be that big a deal if I did not have those channels.

According to Audyssey the front wide channels make more of a difference in the sound, but I don't have those setup.
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post #12938 of 12945 Unread 07-30-2015, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
It's important to understand that there are no sonic differences between XLR and RCA connectors.

XLR are better at noise rejection, so if you have long cable runs and the signal and mains cables run parallel to each other, then XLR can be a better choice. But only if you have any noise issues. If you don't, then the XLR cable won’t bring any benefits.

The XLR connector itself is favored by some as being mechanically superior, but decent RCA cables also make a good connection IME.

XLR output is 6dB higher than RCA and this can be a blessing, a curse, or neither, depending on the rest of your setup.

In short, there is no reason inherent in the differences between XLR and RCA as to why either should be more, or less, suitable for your subwoofer connection, so use whichever you feel most comfortable with.
does this change if the XLR's are "fully balanced"....as in the ultra high end equipment?
I say this..because I have not seen a pre/pro under $11-12K that has fully balanced XLR's


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post #12939 of 12945 Unread Today, 11:49 AM
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I'm not sure why you've had to do resets of the unit. I've never had to do that. I think I did initially run the wizard, but later changed a lot of the settings when I bought the Audyssey Pro kit for it.


At the price you got, you should seriously consider picking up an Audyssey Pro kit with the extra money. Well worth the upgrade if you want the most out of the AV8801.


Until Ultra bluray's are common place and nice 4k projectors are affordable, I don't see the point in going with the much higher priced AV8802a.


Even then, if you use a PC or don't mind an adapter, it will only be a matter of time before some sort of playback option is available (if you are worried about HDCP 2.2).




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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
Not sure I would pay $1K for a used Marantz 8801...I paid just a little more than that for a brand new unit
Based on the resets I have had to do...not sure I would trust the unit without some sort of warranty
According to what I see in the Marantz paperwork factory warranty does not transfer from the original owner

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post #12940 of 12945 Unread Today, 12:20 PM
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What kbarnes says is not always true.


If your amp is a true differential amp with XLR inputs, there could be benefits to using the XLR outputs of the Marantz versus the RCA jacks of the amp and AV8801.


Of course this depends on the amp's circuit design, so you really need to read the manual and specifications for the amp. In most situations what kbarnes says is true, especially for all subs I've used.


While the noise floor of the Marantz is higher than something like the Emotiva XMC-1 (which I don't think is fully balanced either), I don't think you can hear the different unless you put your ear into the tweeter when nothing is playing. ASFAIK, the XMC-1 only has fully balanced outputs for the main L/R terminals though.


With the volume turned up, at the MLP I doubt you will hear the difference between the balanced L/R terminals of the XMC-1 and the AV8801, or that of any high-end preamp for that matter.


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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
does this change if the XLR's are "fully balanced"....as in the ultra high end equipment?
I say this..because I have not seen a pre/pro under $11-12K that has fully balanced XLR's


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post #12941 of 12945 Unread Today, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

What kbarnes says is not always true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post


At the price you got, you should seriously consider picking up an Audyssey Pro kit with the extra money. Well worth the upgrade if you want the most out of the AV8801.
What etc6849 is not always true.

I am a long-time user of the Pro kit and have participated in a number of discussions in the Pro thread regarding whether a Pro calibration is really "better" than a consumer calibration. AFAIR, no one ever provided definitive proof supporting the claim that Pro was better. So, as far as "getting the most out of the AV8801", I disagree. JMO, of course.
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post #12942 of 12945 Unread Today, 01:10 PM
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I know you spend a lot of time here helping folks, so thanks for that I don't want or care to get in an argument with you. However, please explain how the ability to turn off midrange compensation is not a measurable difference?!?

For my speakers, I hated midrange compensation and never understood what the point of it on a three way speaker with a different crossover point than what Audyssey expects. Some of us just want the ability to tweak things more. There is clearly going to be measureable differences due to the extra options the software has (midrange compensation disable, custom house curve, etc...), simple as that.


If you are comparing stock "Audyssey Flat" setting to "Audyssey Flat," there will be less difference. However, it is discussed in many places that the software can do a better job of finding the best crossover points automatically (since it can use your PC's processor to do more iterations, etc...). This has been my own experience as well as others. That's not to say you can't buy a mic and use REW to manually do the same without the pro kit and use the "Audyssey Flat" setting. To say not using a PC's processor to do the filter computations is going to lead to the same exact filter and crossover settings... not sure of that.


As for your other "eek" comment... Maybe you can shed some light on why what I said was wrong from a technical standpoint? I actually have an electrical engineering degree, but you can believe what you want.
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What etc6849 is not always true.

I am a long-time user of the Pro kit and have participated in a number of discussions in the Pro thread regarding whether a Pro calibration is really "better" than a consumer calibration. AFAIR, no one ever provided definitive proof supporting the claim that Pro was better. So, as far as "getting the most out of the AV8801", I disagree. JMO, of course.

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post #12943 of 12945 Unread Today, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
I know you spend a lot of time here helping folks, so thanks for that I don't want or care to get in an argument with you. However, please explain how the ability to turn off midrange compensation is not a measurable difference?!?

For my speakers, I hated midrange compensation and never understood what the point of it on a three way speaker with a different crossover point than what Audyssey expects. Some of us just want the ability to tweak things more. There is clearly going to be measureable differences due to the extra options the software has (midrange compensation disable, custom house curve, etc...), simple as that.


If you are comparing stock "Audyssey Flat" setting to "Audyssey Flat," there will be less difference. However, it is discussed in many places that the software can do a better job of finding the best crossover points automatically (since it can use your PC's processor to do more iterations, etc...). This has been my own experience as well as others. That's not to say you can't buy a mic and use REW to manually do the same without the pro kit and use the "Audyssey Flat" setting. To say not using a PC's processor to do the filter computations is going to lead to the same exact filter and crossover settings... not sure of that.


As for your other "eek" comment... Maybe you can shed some light on why what I said was wrong from a technical standpoint? I actually have an electrical engineering degree, but you can believe what you want.
I certainly don't care to argue the merits of the Pro kit here. I was simply taking issue with your recommendation that spending the $700 on the Pro kit and the required license does not necessarily bring out the best in the 8801. And paying $700 simply to turn off the MRC doesn't seem like a good return on the investment to me (besides, as long as I was using the Pro kit, I preferred the MRC on). If you want to continue the discussion, let's take it to the Pro thread.
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post #12944 of 12945 Unread Today, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
I'm not sure why you've had to do resets of the unit. I've never had to do that. I think I did initially run the wizard, but later changed a lot of the settings when I bought the Audyssey Pro kit for it.


At the price you got, you should seriously consider picking up an Audyssey Pro kit with the extra money. Well worth the upgrade if you want the most out of the AV8801.


Until Ultra bluray's are common place and nice 4k projectors are affordable, I don't see the point in going with the much higher priced AV8802a.


Even then, if you use a PC or don't mind an adapter, it will only be a matter of time before some sort of playback option is available (if you are worried about HDCP 2.2).
Well..my understanding was that was "just the way it is" with products from D&M

I have had to do multiple resets on the Denon 4520 and take it in for service as well

If I decide to keep the 8801 I would be more interested in Dirac than the Audyssey pro kit
when(if) the new Yamaha pre/pro hits the streets I might be interested in looking at it
I have about zero interest in the Marantz 8802 at its current street price...considering how quickly the 8801 fell in value

There should be several 4K blu rays available later this year
Even then ..just like in the past...I am sure there will be players available with 2 HDMI outputs


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post #12945 of 12945 Unread Today, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
What kbarnes says is not always true.


If your amp is a true differential amp with XLR inputs, there could be benefits to using the XLR outputs of the Marantz versus the RCA jacks of the amp and AV8801.


Of course this depends on the amp's circuit design, so you really need to read the manual and specifications for the amp. In most situations what kbarnes says is true, especially for all subs I've used.


While the noise floor of the Marantz is higher than something like the Emotiva XMC-1 (which I don't think is fully balanced either), I don't think you can hear the different unless you put your ear into the tweeter when nothing is playing. ASFAIK, the XMC-1 only has fully balanced outputs for the main L/R terminals though.


With the volume turned up, at the MLP I doubt you will hear the difference between the balanced L/R terminals of the XMC-1 and the AV8801, or that of any high-end preamp for that matter.
I am using a Sherbourn 5/1500A..it has XLR
But...I am almost certain..like the 8801...that its is not a fully balanced design

The amps that were on my short list at the time..the Sherbourn 5/1500...the Rotel 1095 and the B&K reference all had XLR's...but non fully balanced
In fact I dont know anything in their price range that was...maybe at 2.5x-3x
As far as pre/pros..I dont know if anything with a fully balanced design thats under $10K MSRP

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