Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

audiofan1, unfortunately it is my experience that (in case of placebo, and not equipment "burn in") I will notice shortcomings like these even after 2 years or more. And I am not willing to use cabling to mask any defect if that is what you were refering to. Sufficiently good cabling is fine, of course. wink.gif

Ha! mask you say ! let loose in my book I have more silver in my cabling than anything and it can be most revealing of brash forward are anything upstream that's nasty and fatiguing, I use the approach of system balancing as a whole coherent source of musical pleasure, that may require a cable change here or there and not necessarily expensive just the right one for the job! put the wrong tires and improperly balanced suspension system on a car that has a lot of power and well, I hope you get the point I'm trying to make or just drive it with what ever never tapping its full potential:)
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I will not be able to run Audyssey until next week.
I was under the impression that jitter reduces detail and resolution of the sound.

I can make observations but I have no idea why the processor behaves this way.

The treble boost is most obvious on DD from my TiVo.
Merely, engage the equalizer (all values set to flat) reduces it.
The tone controls work as well and resolution is not an issue with this type of source.

- Rich
Jitter was just a suggestion, seeing it would fit most of your observations and it has plagued pre-amps several times the cost of the 8801.

I thought AVS is -the place- where experts chime in, can't we borrow an electronics expert, specialized in high-end audio from some other sub-forum to help solve this mystery? Not that that would help if they just want you to ship one over so they can dissect it... biggrin.gif
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:25 PM
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Should audyssey dsx be matrixing in the surround backs? Pretty sure it was before but all of a sudden stopped...on Dolby digital 5.1 material. Feeding 7.1 activates them.

Is that a bug? Back to neo x I guess...

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Ha! mask you say ! let loose in my book I have more silver in my cabling than anything and it can be most revealing of brash forward are anything upstream that's nasty and fatiguing, I use the approach of system balancing as a whole coherent source of musical pleasure, that may require a cable change here or there and not necessarily expensive just the right one for the job! put the wrong tires and improperly balanced suspension system on a car that has a lot of power and well, I hope you get the point I'm trying to make or just drive it with what ever never tapping its full potential:)
Lol, I was just pulling your silver chain/cabling. biggrin.gif
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkad View Post

I also prefer 7.1 analog from my oppo bdp95 versus hdmi audio for sacd and bluray concerts. I want to keep watching movies via hdmi audio/video, but also would prefer to use 7.1 audio when watching bluray concerts. How do I do this and keep all switching within the 8801? If I disable hdmi audio out in the oppo, I will not have audio via hdmi for movies, and it doesn't seem like I can disable the oppos hdmi2 output independent of hdmi1. Is there a way to do this within the 8801?

The easiest way to do this on the fly is to use a programmable remote.

Here are the remote codes you need to switch them on the fly:

INPUT MODE:HDMI 16 01 16
7.1 (6.1)CH. Input ON 16 01 12
INPUT MODE:DIGITAL 16 01 17
INPUT MODE:ANALOG 16 01 18


You just need the top two to switch between the HDMI and 7.1.
If you use a Harmony and they are not present.
Submit a ticket the Harmony support group and they are pretty quick at adding them.

You can also use the menus in the 8801 to disable the HDMI there instead of in the Oppo.

- Rich

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Old 01-27-2013, 04:35 PM
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The inability to get Prologic II has returned.

I just noticed that when you select it via the remote, it returns to Stereo and does not stay in PLII mode.

I was able to program in the codes from the Marantz spread sheet:

PL IIx(z) Movie / PL II Movie 16 64 00
PL IIx(z) Music / PL II Music 16 64 01

These DO work.

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:21 PM
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Some Initial Impressions of the AV8801

Overall, I am impressed with this preamp.

It is fast, the programming of my TiVo has gone very well. I really like the input selection to power on.
I was abe to setup all inputs from my Oppo BDP-105: HTMI, COAX, 7.1 Analog, and XLR.
As usual, the performance of each one is differnt. From best to worst for LPCM: 7.1, XLR, HDMI, COAX.

The 7.1 inputs from my BDP-105 are very detailed and significantly brighter than my Onkyo PR-5507.
I am not sure what to make of it.


In case someone from Marantz is watching.
Here are some bugs and ehancement requests:

Bug: Dolby PLII selection does not work from the remote with Image processing Off.
I have image processing off because I use a Lumagen Radiance Video Processor.
When I have a two channel source, I can select DTS surround but I cannot select DPII.
DPLII is displayed but only 2 channels are displayed. The display then reverts to Stereo.
The discrete codes from DPII Music and Movie mode do work from the remote.

Bug: DTS NEO:6 Music and DTS NEO:6 Movie remote codes do not work.
I can use the DPII remote codes but not the DTS codes.

Enchangement: Info Button should activate the display in Pure Mode
When you switch into Pure Direct mode, the circle and main displays show volume and connection information and then go black. There is no way to see anything after that. You have to exit Pure mode or change the volume to see this information. The Information button should do it. The only way I can see the volume information in Remote mode is to change the volume or use my Pronto to send a Volumne Up and Volumne Down.

Enhancement: Status Remove Code should show the Volume
The Status Remote code displays information in the bigger display but inconsistently displays the volume information. It seems to do so in Network playback but not from the 7.1 analog inputs.

Enhancement: Direct Exit from Pure mode
When in pure mode, you cannot get to the menu or change the surround mode without first exiting pure mode. However, it seems clear that if I press PLII or direct mode, then it should go directly to that mode. It takes the user some time to realize why nothing is happening.

- Rich

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

Should audyssey dsx be matrixing in the surround backs? Pretty sure it was before but all of a sudden stopped...on Dolby digital 5.1 material. Feeding 7.1 activates them.

Is that a bug? Back to neo x I guess...
To get surround backs from 5.1 content you need to use either PLIIx or Neo:x. DSX does not create rear outputs.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:37 PM
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Another request:

Enhancement: Provide a format mode selection setup menu
Onkyo has format selections for each input. I think that is overkill.
However, it would be nice if the user could select, for example, DPLII when the source is DD 2.0 and Music surround for PCM 2.0.
After turning the IP back on, I can use the hold popup menu to chose the format.
There was some persistence with this selection, but the next day, it was back to 2 channel.
Fortunately, I programmed the Pronto to send the discrete DPLII code which worked fine.

- Rich

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

To get surround backs from 5.1 content you need to use either PLIIx or Neo:x. DSX does not create rear outputs.

Thanks Roger! I'm new to all these sound modes...learning more everyday...

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Old 01-27-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

My only problem using analog stereo XLRs out of my Oppo 95 in (pure direct) is that it lacks bass or better stated, my speakers don't go low enough to perform that well. Above the bass region it does sound better than the hdmi input. Given my speakers are good to around 60hz and I like to boost bass a little, I find that I switch between analog in and digital and wind up leaving on the digital input. If I had speakers that were good to a lower frequency, that equation would change and I'd probably be using analog input..

Then you've got the question of how much your room needs room correction.

It's a mixed bag.

Jim, I too found that analog stereo in out of the Oppo (in my case the 105) lacked bass, even though my speakers (Axiom m60's) are "full range". I like the idea of the using the dedicated stereo outs in Pure Direct mode, and hearing that pure signal from the DAC, but I missed the low end that a .1 channel brought. I solved this problem by picking up a Rel R528 sub, which has a high-level input independent of the .1 LFE input. Now I am getting phenomenal bass from the subwoofer even when listening to a 2.0 signal from my Mac Mini to the USB in of the Oppo 105, then out via XLR dedicated stereo outs in to the 8801 in Pure Direct.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Some Initial Impressions of the AV8801

Enhancement: Direct Exit from Pure mode
When in pure mode, you cannot get to the menu or change the surround mode without first exiting pure mode. However, it seems clear that if I press PLII or direct mode, then it should go directly to that mode. It takes the user some time to realize why nothing is happening.

- Rich

In Pure mode (Pure direct?) you can't use PLII and other surround modes, that's my experience with any receiver I'd had.
This mode is for sending the input out as pure as possible, without any prossessing. With my AV8003, (and my other previous receivers) it turns off everything, even the video circuts.
On the AV8003 the Pure Direct mode I won't get any picture. I'd expecting the AV8801 to do the same when it arrives.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersT2 View Post

In Pure mode (Pure direct?) you can't use PLII and other surround modes, that's my experience with any receiver I'd had.
This mode is for sending the input out as pure as possible, without any prossessing. With my AV8003, (and my other previous receivers) it turns off everything, even the video circuts.
On the AV8003 the Pure Direct mode I won't get any picture. I'd expecting the AV8801 to do the same when it arrives.

This is not what I am saying.

I am in Pure Direct mode.
I press the Music mode button, Nothing happens.

I knew what I wanted but the software insists I press the Pure Direct buton again to leave that mode.
Now I can press the Muse Mode button.

Since I pushed the button for Music mode, just leave Pure Direct mode and go there.
My Onkyo's understood this.

- Rich

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Old 01-27-2013, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

My only problem using analog stereo XLRs out of my Oppo 95 in (pure direct) is that it lacks bass or better stated, my speakers don't go low enough to perform that well. Above the bass region it does sound better than the hdmi input. Given my speakers are good to around 60hz and I like to boost bass a little, I find that I switch between analog in and digital and wind up leaving on the digital input. If I had speakers that were good to a lower frequency, that equation would change and I'd probably be using analog input..

Then you've got the question of how much your room needs room correction.

It's a mixed bag.

Hi Jim,

I do not think the XLR's are the best choice for the Oppo.
They are clearly Analog to Digital converted, at least in some modes since you can use sound modes.

Try the 7.1 analog in's or at least the Oppo dedicated stereo in sent to the 7.1 input on the AV8801.
I find the sound is still quite detailed but less bright and you get more bass.

Apparently you have to be careful with the VIDEO settings with the 8801.
Like you I turned off Video processing and listening today, I felt the unit was significantly brighter and lacking bass, but I was sure it didn't used to be that way.

So I brought up the web control panel and started playing with the settings.
Having played with Onkyo, I have learned that no settings can be ruled out.

You can use the web control panel to test but to do this, you must be out of Pure mode on the HDMI input.
Bring up the video page and you should see the video settings.
Leave this open.

Now, you can change to the XLR or 7.1 inputs (or even the HDMI input) and go into pure mode.

At this point you can change back and forth and listen to the effect.

Here is what I found on my system. I have Revel Salon mains which can produce decent bass.

Here are my conclusions:
  • turn Lip Sync OFF - lip sytem on seems to dull the dynamics
  • turn Video Conversion ON - Much of the bass is restored and the highs are tamed significantly
  • Set I/P Scaler to HDMI - This adds a bit more bass and I like it a little better. Personal preference.

Before I get flamed, I want everyone to know, the last thing I want to post is that changing the Video settings improves the audio so I spend a LOT of time testing this and it is real.
It should be noted, that I think I have returned the unit to its default state. The one in which most users run.
That would explain, why others have not had the excessive brightness and lack of bass issues.

Marantz, call me, we need to talk tongue.gif

- Rich

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Here are my conclusions:
  • turn Lip Sync OFF - lip sytem on seems to dull the dynamics
  • turn Video Conversion ON - Much of the bass is restored and the highs are tamed significantly
  • Set I/P Scaler to HDMI - This adds a bit more bass and I like it a little better. Personal preference.

Before I get flamed, I want everyone to know, the last thing I want to post is that changing the Video settings improves the audio so I spend a LOT of time testing this and it is real.
It should be noted, that I think I have returned the unit to its default state. The one in which most users run.
That would explain, why others have not had the excessive brightness and lack of bass issues.

That leaves (at least) two questions:
  • Is this fixable with a firmware update?
  • How good is the actual sound quality after: "This adds a bit more bass and I like it a little better."

I am tempted to put my order on hold.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersT2 View Post

In Pure mode (Pure direct?) you can't use PLII and other surround modes, that's my experience with any receiver I'd had.
This mode is for sending the input out as pure as possible, without any prossessing. With my AV8003, (and my other previous receivers) it turns off everything, even the video circuts.
On the AV8003 the Pure Direct mode I won't get any picture. I'd expecting the AV8801 to do the same when it arrives.

Since the 8801 is based on a denon design you should not assume this. Indeed PL2 is not normal but putting a denon in direct or pure-direct mode doesn't mean it turns all off it these days depends on settings what digital processing can be turned on/off (audyssey is one example).

Daniel.

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Old 01-28-2013, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post



  • turn Lip Sync OFF - lip sytem on seems to dull the dynamics
  • turn Video Conversion ON - Much of the bass is restored and the highs are tamed significantly
  • Set I/P Scaler to HDMI - This adds a bit more bass and I like it a little better. Personal preference.



- Rich

I'm confused on how video settings are affecting audio performance. Anyone else confirm this? Clearly a bug manipulating the HDMI audio signal.

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Since the 8801 is based on a denon design you should not assume this. Indeed PL2 is not normal but putting a denon in direct or pure-direct mode doesn't mean it turns all off it these days depends on settings what digital processing can be turned on/off (audyssey is one example).

Daniel.

From the manual:

In DIRECT/DSD DIRECT and PURE DIRECT listening mode, the
following items cannot be adjusted.
• Tone (vpage 122) • M-DAX (vpage 122)
• MultEQ® XT 32 (vpage 123) • Dynamic EQ (vpage 124)
• Dynamic Volume (vpage 124)
NOTE
• Video signals are only output when HDMI signals are played in the
PURE DIRECT mode.
• When in the PURE DIRECT mode, the menu screen is not displayed.
• When in the PURE DIRECT mode, the display
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:30 AM
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RichB - so all of those changes you are hearing are when you fiddle with the settings while in PURE mode only? Do they have any effect while in a "normal" listening mode, like just watching a Blu Ray movie through HDMI with Audyssey engaged?
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I'm confused on how video settings are affecting audio performance. Anyone else confirm this? Clearly a bug manipulating the HDMI audio signal.

I've not noticed anything like this at all...
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

RichB - so all of those changes you are hearing are when you fiddle with the settings while in PURE mode only? Do they have any effect while in a "normal" listening mode, like just watching a Blu Ray movie through HDMI with Audyssey engaged?

The changes to Video settings affect all modes I have tried.
I have no yet done an Audyssey calibration but I will leave it in the state where video processing is enabled and Lip Sync is disabled.

What makes this completely bizaar is that it also changes the sound of the 7.1 analog in's in normal and in Pure Direct mode.

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Old 01-28-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersT2 View Post

In Pure mode (Pure direct?) you can't use PLII and other surround modes, that's my experience with any receiver I'd had.
This mode is for sending the input out as pure as possible, without any prossessing. With my AV8003, (and my other previous receivers) it turns off everything, even the video circuts.
On the AV8003 the Pure Direct mode I won't get any picture. I'd expecting the AV8801 to do the same when it arrives.

No you get a picture in Pure Direct mode for any HDMI source regardless of where the sound originates: HDMI, 7.1, or Analog.

The 8801 turns of video circuts but that is overrated.
For example, the instant you go into pure direct mode the sound characteristic changes (for the better IMHO).
After a few seconds the LCD displays shut off. I can hear zero change in the sound when the LCD's are turned off.

What matters is the signal path and the internal clocking of the digital data as it is processed through the DSP's etc.

I file this with copper plating to shield the product. Although, it might be helpful in cooling.
For sheilding, ask yourself where is the ethernet hub in relationship to that plating.
The same goes for extra feet on my Yamaha smile.gif

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Old 01-28-2013, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

No you get a picture in Pure Direct mode for any HDMI source regardless of where the sound originates: HDMI, 7.1, or Analog.

The 8801 turns of video circuts but that is overrated.
For example, the instant you go into pure direct mode the sound characteristic changes (for the better IMHO).
After a few seconds the LCD displays shut off. I can hear zero change in the sound when the LCD's are turned off.

What matters is the signal path and the internal clocking of the digital data as it is processed through the DSP's etc.

I file this with copper plating to shield the product. Although, it might be helpful in cooling.
For sheilding, ask yourself where is the ethernet hub in relationship to that plating.
The same goes for extra feet on my Yamaha smile.gif

- Rich


WIth my older Denon AVP-A1, Pure Direct turns of the video circuitry, as it does with the 8801, and bypasses any processing of the audio, including Audyssey and I think the manual EQ. But using room correction, when properly done, is much better IMO than Pure Direct.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

WIth my older Denon AVP-A1, Pure Direct turns of the video circuitry, as it does with the 8801, and bypasses any processing of the audio, including Audyssey and I think the manual EQ. But using room correction, when properly done, is much better IMO than Pure Direct.

Sorry thang this is not true, the avp allows you to control what happens in pure-direct mode both video (passthrough) and some audio processing (like audyssey) is possible in pure-direct mode.

Daniel.

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Old 01-28-2013, 10:34 AM
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About to start hooking up my new '8801.

Any suggestions for a smoother start or any hidden gems?

I do have an Oppo BDP-93 that I plan on connecting the 7.1 analogue outputs to the 7.1 in on the 8801...... smile.gif
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Sorry thang this is not true, the avp allows you to control what happens in pure-direct mode both video (passthrough) and some audio processing (like audyssey) is possible in pure-direct mode.

Daniel.

Is that pre or post 3D upgrade? Sorry if I didn't have that right, but when I have the AVP (pre-upgrade), Pure Direct did shutdown the video for me - I recall the point being made that but shutting down the video circuitry, it was the best possible scenario to reduce the chance of "interference" with the audio signal.

Direct mode I recall as being different, and there I could set Audyssey, video on, etc.. But I shall defer to you as you still own the AVP, and its been a few years for me.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

The changes to Video settings affect all modes I have tried.
I have no yet done an Audyssey calibration but I will leave it in the state where video processing is enabled and Lip Sync is disabled.

What makes this completely bizaar is that it also changes the sound of the 7.1 analog in's in normal and in Pure Direct mode.
It is still very much possible that this is all caused by some software paths where conditions are not properly checked or not enough (or the wrong) internal parameters are updated. Behavior could get more and more messy if you let the program running the 8801 take several wrong turns.

The 7.1 connection might not be hard-wired with relays or the relays (erroneously) not always activated to account for Pure Direct mode to be influenced by other circuitry.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

That leaves (at least) two questions:
  • Is this fixable with a firmware update?
  • How good is the actual sound quality after: "This adds a bit more bass and I like it a little better."

I am tempted to put my order on hold.

If all this turns out to be true my switch to Marantz from Denon to get 11.2 is not worth it. SQ is paramount. I am on hold until this is resolved.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

If all this turns out to be true my switch to Marantz from Denon to get 11.2 is not worth it. SQ is paramount. I am on hold until this is resolved.
Rightfully so. I gave the go ahead earlier today on my order. This was based on what was known then and on my shop keepers assurance that Marantz is still very much commited to its customers, also behind the scenes.

My main positive thought currently is that default settings seem to lead to (expected) great performance. My doubts, that Marantz can (and will) fix this effectively and sufficiently by a firmware update or (heaven forbid) a hardware modification.

B.t.w., it is still not known how many units are affected.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

That leaves (at least) two questions:
  • Is this fixable with a firmware update?
  • How good is the actual sound quality after: "This adds a bit more bass and I like it a little better."

I am tempted to put my order on hold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

If all this turns out to be true my switch to Marantz from Denon to get 11.2 is not worth it. SQ is paramount. I am on hold until this is resolved.

I think we need to get some more consensus if its a systemic or isolated issue.

Initially, my Neo:X issue was only reported by me...then Marantz confirmed it, and I think mookieb also then discovered it.

RichB - have you performed a processor reset, and have you contacted Marantz to see what they say? (may not be much right now if they didn't get their demo unit in...)

The rest of us, let's try making the changes RichB is doing and report if we hear any changes...I haven't, but honestly haven't played with them much...
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Ken Kreisel Dxd 12012 Subwoofer , Marantz Av8801 , Receivers Amplifiers , Audyssey , Integra
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