Should I buy a Denon AVP-A1HDCI now? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 110 Old 10-02-2012, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I am considering whether I should pull the trigger on one of the few remaining AVP-A1A1HDCIs, perhaps a refurb from Dakmart ($4200) which comes with a 1 yr warr. I would then have the $1K XT32/3D hardware/FW upgrade done by an authorized Denon service center before the upgrade stops being offered/supported by Denon at the end of this year. This rather pricey step up to an awesome prepro would be purely for any improvement in SQ I could get by replacing my Denon AVR A100 that I run in preamp mode. The SQ improvement would come from the AVP's flagship build and design which though 5 yrs old gets a new lease on life with the $1K upgrade. The intent is an integrated triple-purpose stereo/MC music and film system and I'm getting wonderful SQ now. The question is how much better can the SQ be with, say an expensive $7.5K MSRP prepro?

I rely heavily on DSPRC so I appreciate the SQ improvements from MultEQXT32, especially with my Audyssey Pro calibration kit. Pure analog and Direct Mode SQ unravels due to untamed bass in my family room/HT/music room, which has no formal acoustic treatments. I also really like the improved SQ of music using DenonLink from Denon Player to Denon AVR.

I have about $14K invested in my gear which totals about $40K MSRP (all purchased used in exc cond smile.gif)
Denon AVR A100 /4311 (MSRP 2.5K)
Denon DBP A100/4010 (MSRP 2.5K) ) Bluray/univ player
Halcro MC30 (MSRP 5.K) I didn't think amps made much difference but this one is amazingly detailed and dynamic, just purchased for 2K to power my recently purchased 3 front speakers that cost me 6K for the 3:
Dali Euphonia MS5 FR/L (MSRP 15.5K) and matching
Dali CS4 CC (MSRP 5.5K) top-of-the-line speakers, great SQ
Dali Helicon w200 surrounds and DSX wides (4speakers=MSRP 3.5K) very good SQ and timbre-match to fronts
powered by Emotiva XPA5 (MSRP<1K)
Velodyne DD10 subs X2 (MSRP 4.2K) a dynamic duo and versatile too

pics are
1. the awesome new front speakers and older 40" LCD (anything bigger would require losing that entertainment center)
2. a shot that shows the surrounds and wides, etc and MLP 9' from FR/L/CC and the TV screen
dali 005.jpg 2109k .jpg file
HT1.jpg 1267k .jpg file

IMO the upgraded speakers and XT32/Pro have made the biggest difference in SQ. Installing heavy curtains over the huge windows and the large, padded rug over the wood floor helped a lot too. Using DenonLink and the Halcro amp add nice detail and dynamics to really top it off.

So what's the next step? How best to spend the next $5K+?

Or perhaps I should just sit back and enjoy the lovely music for awhile, mebbe buy that pricey Hotel California HiRes disc.biggrin.gif

I welcome your comments and suggestions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg dali 005.jpg (2.06 MB, 208 views)
File Type: jpg HT1.jpg (1.24 MB, 141 views)

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post #2 of 110 Old 10-02-2012, 07:39 PM
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I think if your happy with what you have now stick with it. But if you have 5k to spend maybe spend it on room treatments. Treatments alone will help in the audio department.

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post #3 of 110 Old 10-02-2012, 09:41 PM
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As much as I love my AVP, if it were me and I was being honest with myself, I think I'd want to upgrade to a larger display and come up with a way to get the center speaker mounted lower. So that's where I would probably focus my upgrade dollars. I don't know how attached you are to your current entertainment center, but in the pictures it doesn't look like a great match for those wonderful speakers.

Franks suggestion of room treatments, if there aren't issues getting them past management, is also a good one.

That said, I still believe my AVP is one of the best A/V purchases I've ever made. Mine was an open box from Vann's for $3750 and replaced a Lexicon MC-12B that I sold for $2500 (IIRC), so it didn't cost me much at all to upgrade.
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post #4 of 110 Old 10-02-2012, 10:13 PM
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SoM,
I've been tempted to go down the road you are considering...
I've seen refurbs on Acc4less in the past for both the AVP and the AVR-5308.
Thought about snagging one and getting the update, just like you...
Sadly now it looks like they have no more @ Acc4Less
I have read/heard mixed things about Dakmart, I see a AD safeandsound tonight
that lists having the AVP, have you called them?
Anyway, good luck with your decision/temptation...
The SQ from our AVR-A100/4311s & DBP-A100s is pretty outstanding.
But with the quality of your speakers and the fact you are already
running in pre-amp mode with EXT amps, I can see why you'd be tempted to do the AVP thing...
My only advice would be to call as many ADs as you can, perhaps you could get lucky and find
an open box or demo unit...I'm personally leery of Dakmart, but maybe others can chime in...
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post #5 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 04:36 AM
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SoM

I also spent months looking at the same path, but coming from the $7K Pioneer SC-09 former flagship AVR.

A refurb, the upgrade, get a multichannel amp (ATI, Outlaw, Wyred4Sound). In the end, I decided against it. There were 3 main reasons that were important to me that went into making this decision -

1. get the upgrade, lose the option for a separate B set of side surrounds. I've used that feature since the Pioneer VSX49TXi days, 2003, and have dedicated speakers for movie surrounds & music surrounds. I was hoping that what Denon told owner Digione was going to work out, but he regretably discovered that in order to still have the B's, he had to load up a custom Pro Audyssey cal every time he wanted to use them. The SC-09 is the last remaining AVR/prepro with the option for B surrounds.

2. Denon's obsoleting the existing DenonLink 4 for the new dig connection. That really PO'd me. Since I have Pioneer players with their jitterless PQLS system, I'd want to go with a Denon player for DL. Looked at either a used 3930CI for music or bite the bullet for a $2K BD player, selling off mine at a loss. That still didn't deter me, but when Denon obsoletes the connection, they also obsoleted all their existing players, so going forward, you're stuck with an old player that can never be replaced if you want DL. A very stupid marketing move by Denon, IMO.

3. I already have Audyssey Multi32 where it counts the most - the bass - with the SVS AS-EQ1 sub equalizer. I bought Austin Jerry's last Dec. smile.gif

4. Cost, I'd have to lose a lot of $$ selling my SC-09 and still end up spending $10K to make the change to the Denon setup.

5. Refurb, warranty, A4L or Dakmart's reputation for standing behind the product. And what if it breaks down after 1 yr? For this much money, having more than a 1 yr warranty would be preferable. I could live with it, and also buy additional warranty, but...I have read posts where their refurbs developed problems after weeks or a few months, then there's the hassle of dealing with A4L/Dakmart and taking to a shop, waiting for repair, who knows how long. In the past, I've had gear in shops for months - to be without a HT setup for 2 months, possibly longer is not my idea of a good time.

When I weighed all the factors, it didn't make sense for my situation. I decided to get the new Pio SC-68 for the new features, use it as a prepro into the SC-09's multich inputs so I can its powerful amps, and have the best of both worlds smile.gif And not spend anywhere close to what I'd have to spend to swap over to the AVP.

If you have the money & really want the AVP, now's the time wink.gif But, as much as it's nice to own a flagship product with great build quality, it might be worth your consideration to get the 4520, get a robust amp to go with it, and spend your money on better speakers, upgrading the room, get a projector (if you don't own one yet), or just keep it in the bank wink.gif

I really hope you keep us informed of your decision - the AVP is a great piece but does it makes sense to go with it now? All depends on your situation, doesn't it? smile.gif

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post #6 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I think if your happy with what you have now stick with it. But if you have 5k to spend maybe spend it on room treatments. Treatments alone will help in the audio department.
Good advice. I'm not certain this is my permanent music/HT room and so I'm putting treatments off for a bit. And then there's that WAF.eek.gif

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #7 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

... I think I'd want to upgrade to a larger display and come up with a way to get the center speaker mounted lower. So that's where I would probably focus my upgrade dollars. I don't know how attached you are to your current entertainment center, but in the pictures it doesn't look like a great match for those wonderful speakers...

That's an interesting idea. I've thought many times about ditching the current entertainment center, though it actually looks rather nice. A bigger screen would be really nice for film. But the the curve and sheer size of the current cabinet has an advantage as well. It puts the screen unobtrusively quite far forward in the room, 3' off the front wall. And it helps visually to keep the massive speakers from intruding visually, as they are positioned pretty far off the back wall, for acoustic reasons. .

CC placement is a challenge for so many of us. It's about 18-24" higher than ideal. But voices seem to come from the screen and the front soundstage is well integrated horizontally. And perhaps a bit taller than it would be otherwise...so no need for heights, ha-ha.
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

...That said, I still believe my AVP is one of the best A/V purchases I've ever made. Mine was an open box from Vann's for $3750 and replaced a Lexicon MC-12B that I sold for $2500 (IIRC), so it didn't cost me much at all to upgrade.
Wow, what a bargain! On my part, the $1.3K I spent on the AVR A100 was one of my best HT choices, a great value yielding great SQ.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #8 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I am considering whether I should pull the trigger.......
I welcome your comments and suggestions.

Hi SoM,

Here my take on you upgraditis fever...LOL

Ever thought of a projector & a jumbo screen? I do agree that a 40" screen is not the most enjoyable size today, but since your furniture does not allow anything bigger came the idea of a PJ. You can surely find so-called acoustically transparent screens + motorized versions hung from the ceiling, while you could easily make use of the double HDMI outs on your current Denon AVR (one for TV, one for PJ).

smile.gif

P.S: Love those Dalis all around. I see you kept the suggestion of the maker not to toe-in the front L/Rs. They should sound excellent!
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post #9 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

That's an interesting idea. I've thought many times about ditching the current entertainment center, though it actually looks rather nice. A bigger screen would be really nice for film.

as long as we're giving you free advice biggrin.gif that's where I'd put my money on next instead of the AVP wink.gif

That cabinet is nice, but it is holding you back on what would make a big improvement in experience. Speakers - check. Sub - check. Nice electronics for sound quality - check. 40" screen - uhh, with your size room, 60-70" easily would make it more immersive. As far as being forward in the room, I have a 60" kuro on a BDI stand, about 3 ft from the wall. WAF is not as good as yours, but it accomplishes the same thing....and I'm still looking for bigger screen wink.gif I went from a 53" rptv to the 60" and even that was a nice improvement to the experience.

Acoustically transparent motorized screen + a nice PJ would give you best of both worlds but if you don't want the hassle (esp if not a permanent room), and have the coin it would take to do the AVP, the top-notch 70" Elite or larger TV's would make a huge difference wink.gif In your case, going from 40" to 60" would be a 225% increase in area! Now, that's an upgrade biggrin.gif

And make far more improvement than swapping to the AVP from an A100.

I don't want to depress you but if you just consider a 4x3 image aspect ratio, that 40" is actually couple of inches smaller than an old CRT 35"...

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post #10 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

...3 main reasons that were important to me that went into making this decision -
1. get the upgrade, lose the option for a separate B set of side surrounds...The SC-09 is the last remaining AVR/prepro with the option for B surrounds.
I'm aware of the angst on this issue but personally I'm quite happy with the monopole surrounds pointed at my ears, placed just above ear level. That placement is optimized for MC music but film soundtracks are quite immersive with a well-integrated surround bubble. XT32 works wonders and for film, DSX wides are very cool.

2. Denon's obsoleting the existing DenonLink 4 for the new dig connection. That really PO'd me. Since I have Pioneer players with their jitterless PQLS system, I'd want to go with a Denon player for DL. Looked at either a used 3930CI for music or bite the bullet for a $2K BD player, selling off mine at a loss. That still didn't deter me, but when Denon obsoletes the connection, they also obsoleted all their existing players, so going forward, you're stuck with an old player that can never be replaced if you want DL. A very stupid marketing move by Denon, IMO.
Very good points. There may yet be a converter option to make DLHD backwards compatible, but we don't know yet. The AVP-A1 is of course fine with my DL4 player. This is one of the reasons I'm not particularly interested in the new AVR 4520. And why I'm not really considering the new Onkyo/Integr pre/pros-I lose the jitter reduction.frown.gif

3. I already have Audyssey Multi32 where it counts the most - the bass - with the SVS AS-EQ1 sub equalizer. I bought Austin Jerry's last Dec. smile.gif
Nice.

4. Cost, I'd have to lose a lot of $$ selling my SC-09 and still end up spending $10K to make the change to the Denon setup.
Right.

5. Refurb, warranty, A4L or Dakmart's reputation for standing behind the product. And what if it breaks down after 1 yr? For this much money, having more than a 1 yr warranty would be preferable. I could live with it, and also buy additional warranty, but...I have read posts where their refurbs developed problems after weeks or a few months, then there's the hassle of dealing with A4L/Dakmart and taking to a shop, waiting for repair, who knows how long. In the past, I've had gear in shops for months - to be without a HT setup for 2 months, possibly longer is not my idea of a good time.
Good points.

When I weighed all the factors, it didn't make sense for my situation. I decided to get the new Pio SC-68 for the new features,
use it as a prepro into the SC-09's multich inputs so I can its powerful amps, and have the best of both worlds smile.gif And not spend anywhere close to what I'd have to spend to swap over to the AVP.
It must sound delicious.

If you have the money & really want the AVP, now's the time wink.gif
Indeed, the clock is ticking but I only want the AVP-A1it if it would make a significant improvement in SQ sufficient to outweigh the expense and other downside risks such as warranty that you mentioned, -there's also significantly less return on investment when it comes to replacing the AVP-A1 vs the A100 a few years down the road. I'll lose hundreds on the A100, thousands on the AVP.
... All depends on your situation, doesn't it? smile.gif

Yup. I very much appreciate your thoughtful comments. My responses are above in bold.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #11 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 07:10 AM
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personally, i would not spend $5k to "upgrade" from the a100 to the avp, regardless...

however, if i did have that $5k burning a hole in my pocket, i would be ditching the entertainmdnet center and getting me a much bigger display this very afternoon... biggrin.gif

compared to everything else you have (plus all the work you have put into optimizing it)... your display is SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY outclassed.... it's essentially the same as having several thousand dollars worth of electronics driving 500 dollars worth of speakers... smile.gif you have a great audio set up, now get yourself a great video setup to go along with it...

swapping out your current display for a 70" display would be the biggest change (by far) you've ever made in a/v...

consider this... like me, i know how much you like audyssey and how much it has improved your listening experience... the improvement that audyssey gives you for audio PALES in comparison to the improvement you would get in your video by significantly increasing your screen real estate...

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post #12 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Indeed, the clock is ticking but I only want the AVP-A1it if it would make a significant improvement in SQ sufficient to outweigh the expense and other downside risks such as warranty that you mentioned, -there's also significantly less return on investment when it comes to replacing the AVP-A1 vs the A100 a few years down the road. I'll lose hundreds on the A100, thousands on the AVP.

If you have your audio spot on, why would you upgrade down the track regardless what you have, Unless Dolby Atmos is introduced ( who knows when ) and you willing to add more speakers then yes. But I find updating your display( projectors and TV are always improving especially now 3D is involved ) as others have mentioned, room treatment ( that will show more improvement to your audio) is better money spent.

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post #13 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

SoM,
I've been tempted to go down the road you are considering...seen refurbs on Acc4less in the past for both the AVP and the AVR-5308. Thought about snagging one and getting the update, just like you...Sadly now it looks like they have no more @ Acc4Less
I have read/heard mixed things about Dakmart, I see a AD safeandsound tonight
that lists having the AVP, have you called them?
I will, thnx.

...The SQ from our AVR-A100/4311s & DBP-A100s is pretty outstanding.
Yes it is!

...If I remember correctly, Sam S has both a 4311 and AVP, perhaps he can offer you some
perspective, I have read posts of his complimentary to both...
It's understandable if he's reluctant to go through the considerable trouble of an A/B in the same room just for lilltle ol' me. biggrin.gif

My only advice would be to call as many ADs as you can, perhaps you could get lucky and find
an open box or demo unit...
I've had the same idea but first I need to decide if I really want one before doing all that.

I'm personally leery of Dakmart, but maybe others can chime in...
I'll have to take that into account, thnx.

Thnx for your input! See comments above.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #14 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

compared to everything else you have (plus all the work you have put into optimizing it)... your display is SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY outclassed...swapping out your current display for a 70" display would be the biggest change (by far) you've ever made in a/v...the improvement that audyssey gives you for audio PALES in comparison to the improvement you would get in your video by significantly increasing your screen real estate...

like nearly all the time, you & I are in perfect agreement smile.gif you said it better than I wink.gif as usual more direct!

SoM

Seriously, if I were in your shoes & really had the $$ to spend on the AVP & upgrade, there is NO question what I'd be doing. Like chris said, it's time to move on and get a TV size worthy of your investment in sound quality.

You won't regret it, trust us.

I suggested 70" Elite because it's one of the best large tv's out there, equaling the acclaimed Pioneer Kuro in black levels. I'm a plasma fan myself and since Pio Kuros are no more, I'd also add a top of the line 60" Panny to the shopping list.

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post #15 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 09:05 AM
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SoM,

I would have to agree with those that have already suggested to go with a bigger display if possible. I currently have a Panasonic 50" 720p plasma and plan on upgrading to a Panasonic GT60. I have no experience with the AVP-A1HDCI but I can't see that it would be a significant SQ upgrade over the A100. You could hold off till the 4520 or the 8801 are readily available and prices start to drop. The same for the new series of Denon or Marantz BR players with the new DL. At that time you could buy say the 4520 and Denon's flagship BR player for the cost (or less) of the AVP-A1HDCI (plus upgrade costs). I had a large entertainment center as you do and had to move to a smaller stand when I bought my first 42" plasma. I'm glad I did as I have much more space in my room. With the addition of the stand the center speaker is at a much better height as well.

*Edit: reason - stupidity* Why would I ever think a Marantz BR player would have Denon-Link is beyond me wink.gif.

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post #16 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 01:36 PM
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Don't have the time to go into it, but I'm 150% against spending $5,000 on a PREPRO that will offer absolutely no improvement in sound quality that could be discerned from a $1200 4311- that you already own, by the way.

I swear to god, sometimes it seems that at least 90% of this glorious hobby is placebo.

flame away, gotta go.

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post #17 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 02:50 PM
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As the saying goes, a picture is worth a 1,000 words, so here Ya go SoM:

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post #18 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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^Ha-ha. Wow, thnx Feri!

I want to thank all you guys for the great advice.

If I really want to improve the movie experience, the absolute, unquestioned most bang-for-the-buck will be in a Video upgrade, not Audio. So I should ditch the beautiful but dysfunctional Danish natural cherry cabinet for a nice low one. The CC will be at a proper height and bigger screen will look great.

This makes a lot of sense.Thnx, guys!

If I want to improve SQ, get room treatments. And I will add some should advice to myself: a measurement system such as OmniMic ($300) would be an inexpensive way to get a better sense of the acoustic problems and would immediately allow me to accurately tweak the xover splice between FR/L/CC and subs, etc.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #19 of 110 Old 10-03-2012, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Ha-ha. Wow, thnx Feri!
I want to thank all you guys for the great advice.
If I really want to improve the movie experience, the absolute, unquestioned most bang-for-the-buck will be in a Video upgrade, not Audio. So I should ditch the beautiful but dysfunctional Danish natural cherry cabinet for a nice low one. The CC will be at a proper height and bigger screen will look great.
This makes a lot of sense.Thnx, guys!
If I want to improve SQ, get room treatments. And I will add some should advice to myself: a measurement system such as OmniMic ($300) would be an inexpensive way to get a better sense of the acoustic problems and would immediately allow me to accurately tweak the xover splice between FR/L/CC and subs, etc.

SoM,

I'm glad you are going this route as it appears to me that you have your system sounding excellent smile.gif. Of course now you will have to buy all types of video calibration gear to get the best out of your new display biggrin.gif. Will it ever end wink.gif.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #20 of 110 Old 10-04-2012, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

SoM,
I would have to agree with those that have already suggested to go with a bigger display if possible. I currently have a Panasonic 50" 720p plasma and plan on upgrading to a Panasonic GT60. I have no experience with the AVP-A1HDCI but I can't see that it would be a significant SQ upgrade over the A100... Bill

^Bill, thnx, I appreciate your experience and advice very much. I am really not anxious to spend more on small upgrades. This thread was prompted by the sands running out on the AVP and I feel reassured it would not be cost effective or wise. So I'll kick back and await reports on DLHD and on the 4520 SQ.
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SoM,
Of course now you will have to buy all types of video calibration gear to get the best out of your new display . Will it ever end .wink.gif.Bill
I am nearly so fussy about Video but I do have some calibration discs. I used them to fine-tune the Sammy 40" LCD and it looks good to me.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #21 of 110 Old 10-04-2012, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

...Ever thought of a projector & a jumbo screen? I do agree that a 40" screen is not the most enjoyable size today, but since your furniture does not allow anything bigger came the idea of a PJ. You can surely find so-called acoustically transparent screens + motorized versions hung from the ceiling, while you could easily make use of the double HDMI outs on your current Denon AVR (one for TV, one for PJ)...
Feri, I appreciate your thoughts and have considered that exact plan. Complex decision....will consult further with video types.
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...P.S: Love those Dalis all around. I see you kept the suggestion of the maker not to toe-in the front L/Rs...

Ha-ha, right after that pic we did some toe-in experiments with Audyssey disengaged and for Stereo only. Aimed right at MLP the soundstage width becomes considerably less wide and the sound is, well, kinda denser. Right now they're toed in far less, each about 10 degrees towards the midline. So the R shoots past me 1' to the R of my R shoulder, rather than the 3' when it's pointed straight ahead with no toe-in. My impression so far is that it might cost a very small amout of soundstage width and it might help vocal imaging a bit. I did an Audyssey calibration in this position and it sounds fab indeed. The most significant effect of this toe-in is a beneficial one for the "cheap seats" to either side. When listening to Stereo, you can now distinctly hear the opposite speaker and that creates a stereo effect where there was none previously.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #22 of 110 Old 10-05-2012, 04:13 PM
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For a total bang for buck and a very nicely balanced A/V feature set I would
recommend the newly available in the US Onkyo PR-SC5509 or the relatively
uglier but longer warrantied twin Integra DHC-80.3 comparably priced after
telephone intimidation:)

Being a DHC-80.3 owner my only true upgrade for SQ would be a Classe
SSP-800, but then i would lose on VP, where the Onkyo/Integra are avantgarde.

Fortunately, my refurb DVD-A1UDCI has 32 bit AK4399 DAC’s
from AKM (like Esoterics and others) allowing me to do the 2 channel processing
in the player and enjoy great sound.

If you want Ritz-Carlton treatment with any refurb you go ac4less bro, they treat
customers like kings, Dave i think is the owner/employee's name, and he is just
like the AVS guys, not driven by greed.
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post #23 of 110 Old 10-05-2012, 11:13 PM
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Projector
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post #24 of 110 Old 10-06-2012, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Don't have the time to go into it, but I'm 150% against spending $5,000 on a PREPRO that will offer absolutely no improvement in sound quality that could be discerned from a $1200 4311- that you already own, by the way.
I swear to god, sometimes it seems that at least 90% of this glorious hobby is placebo.
flame away, gotta go.
James

Funny thing is several of the people advice against getting the avp in this thread are owners of the avp and have been for years. Come to our thread and you will find that we are doing that a lot. On avg we are a bunch of owners who consider value without going gaga. We have advised the 4311 over the avp many times but that doesn't make it the same there are reasons (esp years ago) to consider the avp and there are many quality differences they just don't add up (in value) for most people. Thats why most are telling the poster to aim his money somewhere else.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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post #25 of 110 Old 10-06-2012, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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For a total bang for buck and a very nicely balanced A/V feature set I would recommend the newly available in the US Onkyo PR-SC5509 or the.. twin Integra DHC-80.3...
I strongly considered those very pre/pros. But if I switch to Onk/Int or even Marantz, I have to give up DenonLink. So even if those units yielded slightly better SQ in thenselves over the Denon AVR, I believe I'd have a net loss in music SQ. Not a good move.
2. I have done several comparisons of analog routes using the acclaimed dedicated Stereo DACs in the BDP83SE. To my ears, the DACs in the A100 about equal. And to use Audyssey (an absolute must for me) I'd need to do do an ADC/DAC using those very A100 DACs in any case.
Quote:
If you want Ritz-Carlton treatment with any refurb you go ac4less bro, they treat customers like kings...
Thnx.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #26 of 110 Old 10-06-2012, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Funny thing is several of the people advice against getting the avp in this thread are owners of the avp and have been for years. Come to our thread and you will find that we are doing that a lot. On avg we are a bunch of owners who consider value without going gaga. We have advised the 4311 over the avp many times but that doesn't make it the same there are reasons (esp years ago) to consider the avp and there are many quality differences they just don't add up (in value) for most people. Thats why most are telling the poster to aim his money somewhere else.
Daniel.
Well said.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #27 of 110 Old 10-07-2012, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, guys, I went ahead and took the leap on a bigger TV:
Newest 65" LED Samsung 8000 (SmartTV, 240Hz, 1080p etc etc MSRP $5K) for $3.5K from local BB. Actually only 3.3< I forgot about that $200 BB gift card they threw in. : )

It will be mounted on a top-notch Chief wall mount so it'll snug up against the wall for talking heads TV shows, but pulls out a full 37" for action movies. The latter makes for close to the SMPTE 30 degree viewing angle, compared to my current 16 degrees!

Now to shop for a cabinet....

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #28 of 110 Old 10-07-2012, 07:48 AM
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Congratulations! biggrin.gif

Steve
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post #29 of 110 Old 10-07-2012, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Well, guys, I went ahead and took the leap on a bigger TV:
Newest 65" LED Samsung 8000 (SmartTV, 240Hz, 1080p etc etc MSRP $5K) for $3.5K from local BB. It will be monted on a top-notch Chief wall mount so it'll snug up against the wall for talking heads TV shows, but pulls out a full 37" for action movies. The latter makes for close to the SMPTE 30 degree viewing angle, compared to my current 16 degrees!
Now to shop for a cabinet....

So now its time for a new pre-pro, since its clearly the weakest part in your setup. What about a denon avp ? smile.gif

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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post #30 of 110 Old 10-07-2012, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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^He-he. But l am thinking about adding an inexpensive Blu Ray 3D player as the DBPA100 doesn't do 3D.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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