Can I switch to a different audio source while keeping my video source on a Yamaha RX-A3010 (without making that default)? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 8 Old 10-06-2012, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Dr. Crash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hi,

Up to today, my setup was a venerable Sony STR DE835 front ended by a Monoprice HDMI to HDMI + Toslink switch allowing me to get HDMI to my projector and sound to the receiver, which has good of optical inputs. I picked up today an open box RX-A3010 for $950... It is much more than I wanted to spend on a new AVR but the fact that it seems to do three powered zones seems like a good thing given that I was going to try and find some way to put the Sony into my bedroom closet to get sound there and now can probably simply run cables to speakers and consume less power overall...

One thing that I am extremely reliant on in the Sony is that once you have selected an AV (audio/video) source, you can simply select an A (audio) source and the video comes from the same source while the audio is switched in from the other source. I use this all the time, for example when the kids play Xbox using a wireless headset (off the switch, but now the Xbox) and I listen to music through an Airport Express. With the HDMI switch, where I had a manual switch from its Toslink output to either the receiver or the wireless headset, I could also do the same when they're watching movies off a Mac, and I am cooking and listening to music. I use this ALL THE TIME.

With the Yamaha, if I select AV1 I get audio/video from HDMI and as I switch to AUDIO1 the video is replaced with an image of an instrument. Cute but definitely not helpful if the AV1 was the Xbox... A quick search in the manual shows that I can set the Yamaha to ALWAYS prefer some other audio than HDMI but that's not what I want. I want to simply be able to say "keep the video, but sub in some different audio now." This is all in the same zone.

Is that possible? How? If not, this AVR may have to go back (at least then I won't have to cut the back of my cabinet to make it fit smile.gif). Then, what comparable AVR will be able to do what I want? It's a bit like Denon's "Video Select" but the other way around (though the Denon feature would work I am sure... as well as running multiple HDMI cables to my projector or using a switch and running optical/coax to the receiver, but such outputs are disappearing quickly on new players etc.).

Thanks!

EDIT: I have found (p. 105 of the manual) that if I move my Airplay to MULTI CH, then I can set Video Out for that input to be AV1 (or any other AV). But this does not solve the "switch audio while watching any AV source" (e.g. TV or movie from my Mac) and also it forces analog output so no multi channel audio from the Mac, or buying an external decoder just to feed to MULTI CH which seems silly (not that I have any now, but who knows, it'd be nice for classical music). There's got to be an easier way? It was trivial to do in a 1999 receiver!
Dr. Crash is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old 10-07-2012, 10:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ross Ridge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 81
In general no AV receiver with HDMI support will do what you want. HDMI, which carries both audio and video in a single connection, killed this feature. It used to be that AV receviers handled audio and seperately, the audio switch and the video switch were two completely different devices. There was no reason why, as far the hardware was concerned, why audio and video from two different inputs couldn't be selected at the same time. With HDMI, both audio and video are get handled by the same HDMI switch.

If you hook the sources you want to do this with using analogue video and either analogue or SPDIF audio, then you could use a Denon receiver supporting "Video Select". Onkyo receivers apparently will let you do this in a limited fashion if you pick a source that that doesn't support video after selecting one that does. With Yamaha receivers you're limited to various workarounds like you suggested.

Another option is to get one of the new 2012 AV receivers with HDMI matrix switches. These AV receivers have a zone HDMI output that can be selected independently of the main zone's HDMI output. Connect both of these HDMI outputs to your TV, and then select your audio source in the main zone and the video source in the other zone. The RX-A3020 can do this. (You can also do something similar with your RX-A3010, but using analogue video instead of HDMI in the other zone.).
Ross Ridge is offline  
post #3 of 8 Old 10-25-2012, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Dr. Crash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks for the response. While I understand your "single switch" explanation, I see that the Yamaha will let me pick an HDMI video with a different audio if and only if the audio is the "source." And that's not very well implemented either for my use case. In addition to HDMI (well, HDCP's) tight control of video+audio, it seems like what I want to do simply is not mainstream and therefore not thought out as a feature. It used to work "out of the box" ten years ago because receivers were built as you say, but now that they are not, I seem to be one of the few who care about this...

So I thought I could use my existing HDMI "solution" which is a Monoprice switch (since my Sony receiver doesn't have HDMI) going straight to my projector, and with optical audio (off the HDMI) going to the receiver. But I am now starting to realize that this probably would make a modern receiver (I now have the Yamaha and a Denon 2112 to compare with) difficult to use. For example, it seems that Internet radio on the Denon is useless without the UI. So I would need a matrix HDMI switch, and put one output on the projector, and one on the receiver (and then back onto the projector's second HDMI input) just so I can see the receiver's UI at times, and have video and audio separate at other times? Am I crazy? Is that the only option there (well, besides giving up or living with limitations smile.gif)

I am not too worried about things like settings for different sources (e.g. "game" sound for Xbox vs something else for movies) because I'll be using Roomie Remote so I can put those into the activity changes.

HDMI is not helping me at all here...
Dr. Crash is offline  
post #4 of 8 Old 10-26-2012, 05:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ross Ridge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 81
If you want to see a receiver's onscreen display you don't have to hook up any sort of video source to it, so you don't need the HDMI matrix switch just for that.

Note that Yamaha only lets you select a video source for the multi-channel input and internal inputs. It doesn't let you select different video source for any of the other inputs.
Ross Ridge is offline  
post #5 of 8 Old 10-27-2012, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Dr. Crash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

If you want to see a receiver's onscreen display you don't have to hook up any sort of video source to it, so you don't need the HDMI matrix switch just for that.
Note that Yamaha only lets you select a video source for the multi-channel input and internal inputs. It doesn't let you select different video source for any of the other inputs.

I'd need the switch if I wanted the UI to overlay my son's Xbox. But you're right, I didn't think of just switching to an empty input.

I am aware of the multi-channel limitation... Thankfully all my music is 2 channel so I can plug my Airport Express as MULTI-CH. Of course (who designs those things?!) when in MULTI-CH the music DSP effects are not available. But I can live with that even if it does not make sense to me. And we'd live with the UI showing up on top of the video whenever I start the audio MULTI-CH.

I also picked up a Denon 2112 (though the least I'd need would be the 2312---it's coming; and I'm sure I'll miss the Yamaha's ability to switch from 7.1 to 5.1 + 2 without rewiring---but if I can drop my spend to <$500 vs ~$1,000 I can spend that money on my planned Mac mini!). The Denon won't switch HDMI video over an alternate audio at all (aaaaaaargh!). I'm on my way to buy an Xbox component cable and see if that would work: Xbox component + Xbox TOSlink audio -> HDMI output to projector + sound. If that does, I should be able to tell the Denon to use the component as video for its Airplay source (where my music comes from). I'll just give up on the kids watching a movie with headset while I listen to radio (since the movie will be an HDMI source). I'll report on the Denon's ability to do what I want with components.

And/or I'll just wire my kitchen as a zone 2 or 3, and have lesser quality music there biut at least music.
Dr. Crash is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 10-28-2012, 06:11 AM
Senior Member
 
iraweiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 16
What I do with my RX-A3000 and RX-A800 is pretty simple as my needs are only to listen to something else while watching the video from my WOW cable box. I run a set of component cables directly from the cable box to the TV input 2. When I want to listen to something different than what my TV showing I just switch the TV to input 2 and my receiver to whatever I want to listen to.
iraweiss is online now  
post #7 of 8 Old 10-28-2012, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Dr. Crash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I thought about that :-) I would lose the GUI but maybe that's not too bad of a deal. I also picked up a Denon to see if it would do it better and I found a way with it...

Since you have both an RX-A3000 and an RX-A800 may I ask a question about that? Besides features like amps and power, do you find a big difference between them? I can get a Yamaha 3010 for $1160, a 2010 for $960 and I am assuming a 1010 for, say, another $200 less. The YPAOs vary slightly between them: the 1010 has mutipoint YPAO; the 2010 adds RSC (Reflected Sound Control); the 3010 adds Angle Measurement. Are those by themselves worth $200 each time? (Your A800 may not have multipoint, but maybe you've tried a lot of the Yamahas...)
Dr. Crash is offline  
post #8 of 8 Old 10-28-2012, 02:10 PM
Senior Member
 
iraweiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Biggest difference between them is that the 1st Aventage generation 3000 includes internet while 800 does not. My tradeoff in the 800 was inclusion of multichannel analog input and HD Radio. Plus, I get many internet features through my WOW UltraTV.

Since I'm using entirely different speakers (although all are Definitive Technology) in two different rooms it's difficult to say if they sound all that different. It's also far easier to drive speakers in the master bedroom (800) vs home theater/family room (3000). There are also more inputs on the 3000 and it has the look and feel of a more sophisticated piece.

I love being able to do basic input switching and level control for all zones individually or simultaneously with the web control application on the 3000.

Both receivers have multipoint YPAO and the 3000 has RSC and angle measurement (works great on a tripod). Ran them when the receivers were first set up but have not touched them since.
iraweiss is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Yamaha Rx A3010 Receiver
Gear in this thread - A3010 by PriceGrabber.com



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off