Emotiva XMC-1 coming soon (please limit posts to technical issues) - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
SHYSTER - well said. Next up ethics followed by morals. Not who I want to do business with going forward.
I don't know if its that bad. I mean for the true audio fan with unlimited funds might find this fun to talk about in his luxury box at the game, however I would think anyone ready to drop a 100K in audio would not be looking the way of Emotiva.
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post #392 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 08:13 AM
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If I had the $100,000 to basically loan to them for future shipments of unknown products, I would be in an income bracket that would allow me to select from a tremendous range of high dollar high quality equipment. Emotiva would most likely never make the list of products under consideration. McIntosh would be my entry level equipment with those dollars available!

Screams SCAM to me.
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post #393 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 08:41 AM
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I agree totally with the posts from Reefdvr27 and PeterK. Anyone with $100k to drop is not going to be online looking at emotiva.com for their next audio purchase .


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post #394 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
I see the "Become a part of the Emotiva Millionaire’s Club" as a bad sign. If Emotiva needs to do this to raise capital it is troubling IMO. It reminds me of av123 in that the owner needed to get "creative" to raise capital. I'm in no way shape or form comparing Emotiva's owner to av123's owner. My point is that if a company like Emotiva needs to start a "Millionaire’s Club" to raise capital it isn't good news.


The other thing is who is actually going to fork over $100K to get the benefits listed below?

You’ll have input on upcoming products, before they are released
Every product you receive will be out of a special batch of “First 10” products, with special engraved lettering
You’ll have access to Dan, Lonnie, and Emotiva’s top staff at annual Millionaire’s Club dinners
Any additional products you purchase will be discounted at 50%, rather than the 10% e-Club level
And, of course, you will receive one of each product we introduce, for a decade (or, in the case of monoblock amps and speakers, you’ll receive 2 of them).



https://emotiva.com/products/e-club/millionaires-club

I can think of many better ways to invest $100K. I don't see any mention of use of the new Bentley or stays at the new Emotiva McMansion .


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Sounds Shifty to me!

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post #395 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 09:04 AM
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Sounds Shifty to me!
Show me the financials for that kind of investment.
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post #396 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadRunner6 View Post
Mr. Barnes,

I haven't been here in ages and just stopped by to browse and saw this thread. I do own Emotiva equipment and am aware of the long delays over 5 years or so for the XMC-1. Just wanted to make a comment about your posts. You really seam to have a big time chip on your shoulder over this. I've had a lot more issues with Microsoft and their products and also my Honda auto that I own over the last 5 years than with my Emotiva equipment. Sure I would like to see the XMC-1 finally appear too, but I hope you don't get a ulcer getting so worked up over this. Yeah, they have made some mistakes but I don't really think they were intentional. They are not the only firm that have had some very serious issues with developing a pre-pro.

Just my honest thoughts.
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Hey RoadRunner - no need to worry about my health, but thanks for the concerns. Despite how it may seem, I'm not getting very worked up about the delays on the XMC-1. Everything I have posted has been factual AFAICR, or clearly stated as opinion/speculation. It isn’t the delay on the XMC-1 that is the main issue - it is the lack of information or even disinformation coming out of Emotiva that is the part that is worrying. Like saying there have been units shipped in April and May but then not being able to answer questions about the tech spec of their implementation of Dirac. I have no chip on my shoulder and have been delighted with every Emotiva product I have owned (which is 11 for the record).
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post #397 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 09:30 AM
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"You'll have input on upcoming products, before they are released."

That line reminds me of the following from a colorful baseball manager...

Listen, if you start worrying about the people in the stands, before too long you're up in the stands with them.
Tommy Lasorda
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post #398 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 10:18 AM
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It isn’t the delay on the XMC-1 that is the main issue - it is the lack of information or even disinformation coming out of Emotiva that is the part that is worrying. Like saying there have been units shipped in April and May but then not being able to answer questions about the tech spec of their implementation of Dirac.
This is what is really getting to me about the state of the XMC-1. It's complete BS in my opinion to claim shipping in April but there's no reports of anyone on any forum owning one and they refuse to answer basic questions about functionality or release the manual. If, as many including myself are speculating, is that some have been shipped to reviewers and or testers that are under NDA then they can't claim that the product is being shipped. It's shipped when it's going to a paying customer, and not before. They're trying to weasel around yet another missed date. I bet they are just hoping they can ship to the first person on the reservation list by June 30th so they can claim they met the goals set forth in the April podcast.

I'm in a real bind because I need something soon, as in next week, for the theater in my new house. I have a friend I can borrow a receiver from for a short time, but I'm not sure how long until he'll need it. If I had some sense how long it will be before I could obtain an XMC-1 I'd know whether or not I can wait or should purchase something else. A UMC-200 doesn't have the HDMI ports I want, so that is pointless for me. I guess maybe we'll hear something when they are in Atlanta.

The only saving grace for Emotiva at this point is that unlike MLS, they haven't taken money for the XMC-1. Otherwise I'd be very suspicious of what they are doing. I don't think the Millionaire's Club is a sign they are in trouble, I just think it's a gimmick. They only are offering it to 10 people, so that's only a $1 million they could raise. That's not a lot considering the size of Emotiva really. And the 10 year obligation will cost them. I just don't think people with that kind of loose change are really Emotiva's clientele. Those folks usually pay for custom installers to do their systems, don't they? But it could be a good franchise opportunity. You'll get to purchase everything at 50% off, so you could mark it up and resell it.
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post #399 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post
This is what is really getting to me about the state of the XMC-1. It's complete BS in my opinion to claim shipping in April but there's no reports of anyone on any forum owning one and they refuse to answer basic questions about functionality or release the manual. If, as many including myself are speculating, is that some have been shipped to reviewers and or testers that are under NDA then they can't claim that the product is being shipped. It's shipped when it's going to a paying customer, and not before. They're trying to weasel around yet another missed date. I bet they are just hoping they can ship to the first person on the reservation list by June 30th so they can claim they met the goals set forth in the April podcast.
Agreed. It's not an outright lie but it is being economical with the truth. Most people are fairly clear what "shipped" means. To many people it seems obvious that not a single unit has "shipped" so far to a paying customer. In fact, since they can't even answer technical questions about their implementation of Dirac, it seems to be that it is not even ready for shipping yet. This is what has p***ed people off, not the delayed launch as such.
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post #400 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 11:05 AM
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If I had the $100,000 to basically loan to them for future shipments of unknown products, I would be in an income bracket that would allow me to select from a tremendous range of high dollar high quality equipment. Emotiva would most likely never make the list of products under consideration. McIntosh would be my entry level equipment with those dollars available!

Screams SCAM to me.
No, just an ill-advised marketing gimmick that will probably draw no takers, or a Hail Mary pass to somehow find a gadfly investor or 10 with money to burn for a hobby.

I wouldn't put Emotiva on any list of mine either if I had $100K to burn for A/V equipment: I'd be spending it on a 12 channel Trinnov Altitude pre/pro, a Seaton Catalyst based system in our dedicated HT (after we buy our million dollar home with one LOL) with appropriate amplification, and a wage slave to position treatments and conduct REW measurements to optimize the whole thing

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post #401 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 11:44 AM
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Oh, and dinner with Big Dan too - heaven.
At the end of the meal he swallows a small child to show you it was worth the $100K.
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post #402 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 12:28 PM
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post #403 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 12:33 PM
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Well I am sure Big Dan is getting emails from Nigeria offering him the money in exchange for his personal info! Heck $100,000 is nothing compared to what I get offered daily.
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post #404 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 01:41 PM
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I always though he's the type more likely to be sending those e-mails rather than receiving them.

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post #405 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 04:40 PM
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^^^^

I think it might be a stretch too far to link the Millionaire's Club to the possibility that Emo are desperate for a capital injection. They could be rolling in cash and still think it's a good idea to raise another million for effectively doing nothing.
To be clear, the EMC doesn't equal money for nothing. Emotiva is entering into a contract that pre-sells 10 years worth of good. They're goods that I don't think anyone wants that badly, but they are committing to cough up products for the money.

Assuming this isn't some sort of take the money and run scheme (and I don't think it is), this has interesting revenue recognition implications over the next 10 years for Emotiva. I'll be curious to see if anyone decides to place a 10 year bet on a 9 year old company (with the prize being redundant products).
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post #406 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 04:51 PM
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Well that is IF Emotiva actually releases new products!!
Thinking of the speakers that were discontinued and supposed to be replaced with new models that never hit the market, the subwoofers that never hit the market, the XMC and RMC, the list goes on.

Oh and the rumored turntable, the supposed tube amps, the mini component line.
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post #407 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 04:59 PM
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Hmmm...great technical discussion!
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post #408 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 05:58 PM
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Well that is IF Emotiva actually releases new products!!
Thinking of the speakers that were discontinued and supposed to be replaced with new models that never hit the market, the subwoofers that never hit the market, the XMC and RMC, the list goes on.

Oh and the rumored turntable, the supposed tube amps, the mini component line.
To be fair, they have released a lot of products, just not the promised ones. The Fusion receiver came out of nowhere. They also put out a third CD player, DAC, phono pre-amp, and new XSP-1, and four of their amps have been upgraded in the past year to Gen. 2. All this in the past year. If you were an EMC member you would have gotten all those products. And the XPA-1L, not much over a year old, is being upgraded "soon". I think their announcement said they released $16k in new products in the last year.

There are some people on their forum who have a ton of their products, and probably have spent ten thousand or more on Emotiva alone. While I think it's a silly idea, I think they may get one or two takers on this, because there are a handful of rich people who are still into the DIY side of the hobby. Of course they could also just be friends of Dan.

I'm not defending it, and I wouldn't go for it even if I could afford it, well maybe if the XMC-1 had come in a timely manner I'd be more enthusiastic, but I don't think it's fair to call it a rip-off or a con. They do release new products, and enough of them that you'd get your money back in products, albeit often redundant stuff that you probably wouldn't need. But you could sell that, and you could use your 50% discount to hook friends up with good equipment for a real good price. Just as an example, if you wanted to do 13 channels with XPR-1s for each channel, that would save you $11,050.

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Hmmm...great technical discussion!
This thread is over one and a half years old, and was started back when the XMC-1 was going to be released "real" soon. It's not surprising to see it go in this direction. Hopefully if it's ever released a different thread will be started for actual technical discussion.
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post #409 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 06:14 PM
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I'm not defending it, and I wouldn't go for it even if I could afford it, well maybe if the XMC-1 had come in a timely manner I'd be more enthusiastic, but I don't think it's fair to call it a rip-off or a con. They do release new products, and enough of them that you'd get your money back in products, albeit often redundant stuff that you probably wouldn't need. But you could sell that, and you could use your 50% discount to hook friends up with good equipment for a real good price. Just as an example, if you wanted to do 13 channels with XPR-1s for each channel, that would save you $11,050.

https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpr-1

Why would anybody, even the most hardcore Emotiva fan, want or need 1300 lbs. worth of XPR-1 monoblocks in their home? Talk about probable fire hazards: 13 20 Amp circuits....not to mention the electric bills.

Although you raise a good point about somebody being a broker for their friends and making a profit on that 50% discount per monoblock...


Maybe that would be good career move for the other Keith (kbarnes): he could join that club, get a bunch of products at 50% off, sell them in the UK, and pay for his Atmos speakers and setup with non-Emotiva equipment

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post #410 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 06:21 PM
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Interesting approach to setting up B&M dealers. You'd get every new gadget for your showroom. Sell at the internet price and you've got a decent margin. EMO would have to throw in one (or two) of every existing product to make that work though.

Do they still have B&M resellers?

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post #411 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 06:48 PM
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I'm curious how this would be treated for accounting purposes?

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post #412 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 07:27 PM
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Technically speaking it seems odd to be soliciting money on your Etail website. I hope they aren't struggling , I will never feel the same way about my amps if they go down.
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post #413 of 1211 Old 06-13-2014, 07:45 PM
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Hmmm...great technical discussion!
There is nothing technical to talk about, or should say "left" to talk about.
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post #414 of 1211 Old 06-14-2014, 02:28 AM
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I'm curious how this would be treated for accounting purposes?
Until we know how the $100,000 is billed (lump sum or $10k a year), it'd be hard to even guess. Even then, there are a number of ways this could be put on the books, and since Emotiva is a private company, I doubt we'll ever know.
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Technically speaking it seems odd to be soliciting money on your Etail website. I hope they aren't struggling , I will never feel the same way about my amps if they go down.
After all they are in a business and making money is their chief goal.
The 50% off products promotion might be attractive to a reseller and they may find enough international resellers that would go in on this. These resellers wouldn't really compete domestically and could grow the Emotiva market in a new direction.
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post #416 of 1211 Old 06-14-2014, 04:37 AM
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https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpr-1


Maybe that would be good career move for the other Keith (kbarnes): he could join that club, get a bunch of products at 50% off, sell them in the UK, and pay for his Atmos speakers and setup with non-Emotiva equipment
Hey, Stuart, that's not a bad idea I’d be, like, their unofficial UK distributor Weren't they at one time talking about getting European distribution (like SVS have done through L-Sound in Norway)? There's a big marketing opportunity here in the UK for their amps. Other than Pro amps there are no really nice amps on sale here for sensible prices. Not that there is anything wrong with Pro amps of course - the Crown XLS series represent terrific value and performance if you can stand the pig-ugly looks.
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post #417 of 1211 Old 06-14-2014, 04:39 AM
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I always though he's the type more likely to be sending those e-mails rather than receiving them.
Now where are AVS's brand new smilies....? Ah yes...

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post #418 of 1211 Old 06-14-2014, 04:44 AM
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Hmmm...great technical discussion!
It's difficult to discuss the technical aspects of a product that hasn’t been released yet and for which the manufacturer has given very little information, other than bare bones features. The one tech issue that we are all desperately waiting for is how their implementation of Dirac is working out - but despite them saying they have shipped units, they apparently are unable to confirm at this time just how their version of Dirac will differ from, say, Audyssey XT32. Dirac Live, for example, is a mixed phase solution and XT32 is a minimum phase solution and this makes Dirac, potentially, very interesting to many people. But we are told that the XMC-1 won’t have Dirac Live, but Dirac LE, but then there is a stony silence as to what Dirac LE actually is, with even the representative of Dirac refusing to comment.

So what technical issues did you have in mind to discuss?
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post #419 of 1211 Old 06-14-2014, 04:46 AM
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Technically speaking it seems odd to be soliciting money on your Etail website. I hope they aren't struggling , I will never feel the same way about my amps if they go down.
IKWYM but amps are pretty simple beasts. Pretty much any competent repair shop could keep them going for ever if they fail. And you'd have the cachet of knowing you owned exclusive gear that could never be replaced
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post #420 of 1211 Old 06-14-2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post
T

This thread is over one and a half years old, and was started back when the XMC-1 was going to be released "real" soon. It's not surprising to see it go in this direction. Hopefully if it's ever released a different thread will be started for actual technical discussion.
Yet I see no mod cleanup.


Anyway back to tech talk.
If there is speculation to be made on the XMC it should be on why they brought up the topic Dolby Atmos now.

Last edited by bootman_head_fi; 06-14-2014 at 05:34 AM.
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