Emotiva XMC-1 coming soon (please limit posts to technical issues) - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I believe that is only the case on the lower-end models in their range. The better units still have XT32 (the only version of Audyssey I would consider).

If Onkyo do eventually drop XT32 across the board, well there is always Denon. My next unit may well be a Denon anyway, for various reasons (none of which is connected with any problems with Onkyo that I have experienced. All three of my Onkyo units have performed flawlessly).
According to what I've read, Onkyo have dropped Audyssey across their entire range.
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post #512 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 11:47 AM
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It's interesting, this talk about beta testing. Does Emotiva even have a beta testing program? I would think not since they told me they didn't.
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post #513 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 12:07 PM
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Does Emotiva even have a beta testing program?
Apparently they do, but their unusual name for their beta program ("shipping") could make one think otherwise.
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post #514 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 12:46 PM
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Apparently they do, but their unusual name for their beta program ("shipping") could make one think otherwise.
Then, I'll take that as a 'guess' on your part.

I've been following this Thread since the beginning but have remained mostly quiet. There has been a tremendous amount of Emotiva bashing that is really uncalled for. I can see that a lot of you are/were curious about the XMC-1 but the way the company operates and releases information is no one's business but the company releasing the product. There can be all kinds of reason(s) for the delay in shipping, which none of you or I can even begin to guess. When it's ready, it will be announced. So, stop your harassment and whining. Yes, I too, am interested in this pre-pro. And yes, I'm interested in what Dolby Atmos could bring to the table but like most people with home theaters, I cannot see adding more than 5 speakers plus a sub in my living room, and the only way I could add more speakers is if they were very small satellites like I'm using now but are desperately thinking of returning to a smaller bookshelf or small floor-standing model. About a year ago, I purchased and own only one Emotiva product (Stealth Monitors that I truly enjoy) and my experience with their customer service was very good. Being who they are, what they make and what they have accomplished, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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post #515 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
Then, I'll take that as a 'guess' on your part.

I've been following this Thread since the beginning but have remained mostly quiet. There has been a tremendous amount of Emotiva bashing that is really uncalled for. I can see that a lot of you are/were curious about the XMC-1 but the way the company operates and releases information is no one's business but the company releasing the product. There can be all kinds of reason(s) for the delay in shipping, which none of you or I can even begin to guess. When it's ready, it will be announced. So, stop your harassment and whining.
I pretty much disagree with everything in your above post. Especially the "When it's ready, it will be announced" which has been done multiple times directly from Emotiva with no success. So if you want to point blame you should look in Emotiva's direction.

As far a you telling members here to "stop your harassment and whining" is way off base IMO. If members here want to voice their opinion in a respectful way about the XMC-1 debacle then they have every right to. If you don't care for that dialog maybe it would be best to avoid this thread .

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post #516 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 01:29 PM
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I'm interested in what Dolby Atmos could bring to the table but like most people with home theaters, I cannot see adding more than 5 speakers plus a sub in my living room, and the only way I could add more speakers is if they were very small satellites like I'm using now but are desperately thinking of returning to a smaller bookshelf or small floor-standing model. About a year ago, I purchased and own only one Emotiva product (Stealth Monitors that I truly enjoy) and my experience with their customer service was very good. Being who they are, what they make and what they have accomplished, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Given the XMC-1's price point, I'd say that, contrary to your view, the target audience for this new Emotiva processor likely consists of precisely those people who either own a dedicated room and/or aren't limited to a 5.1 speaker configuration. I think the absence of Atmos processing could be a huge detriment to the XMC-1's success.

Speaking personally, I'm in the middle of adding four more speakers to my dedicated room specifically for Atmos and (hopefully) DTS-UHD. I'll obviously need a new processor and additional outboard amplification to make Atmos happen and I'm looking to buy my new electronics in the fall once Atmos receivers/processors are released. If the XMC-1 supported Atmos, it'd likely be near the top of my list -- object-based audio processing combined with Dirac LE could be killer. However, as it stands now with only 7.1 support and without Atmos, the XMC-1 is nowhere in the running for me.

Unless Dirac LE turns out to be a complete revolution in REQ, I think the XMC-1 will be obsolete once it hits the streets. I can't see how anyone short of the die-hard Emo fans would buy one given the much more compelling state-of-the-art alternatives coming very soon at the same or lower price points.
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post #517 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 01:30 PM
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I pretty much disagree with everything in your above post. Especially the "When it's ready, it will be announced" which has been done multiple times directly from Emotiva with no success. So if you want to point blame you should look in Emotiva's direction.

As far a you telling members here to "stop your harassment and whining" is way off base IMO. If members here want to voice their opinion in a respectful way about the XMC-1 debacle then they have every right to. If you don't care for that dialog maybe it would be best to avoid this thread .

Bill

Well, at any rate, we'll hopefully know more after the Road Shows in Atlanta and Chicago. I'm going to go to the one in our suburbs on the July 26th, as a favor to the team .


However, it's more than even odds that the news we get after this week from Atlanta will be more or less what we already know - units "being shipped" and getting banged on in beta at an undisclosed location, to paraphrase Big Dan, with maybe a single live unit at the event itself. Hopefully it will even be plugged in .


One comment about pricing: in some ways, comparing the pricing of an XMC-1 to a future D&M or Pioneer AVR with Atmos (which may or may not be in everyone's future if they're buying the actual unit, pending actual content) is a bit like comparing one of those flagship Denon BluRays to an Oppo 103.


I personally don't see any reason to buy anything more expensive than this $500 Oppo, especially with their customer service and the unit's capability of processing two HDMI inputs, if you're going to have your content output digitally to a pre/pro or AVR. However, there are people out there that are wedded to brand loyalty, and will spend $1K on a DBT-3313UDCI just so they can enjoy Denon Link HD, even if otherwise the Oppo is equal or superior in all ways feature-wise, as well as for digital I/O.

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post #518 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 01:36 PM
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To respond to Perpendicular's claims about uncalled for bashing of Emotiva I'll quote myself from a posting on their forum:
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It's not a matter of being owed information, or letting bits and pieces slip on occasion. It's about being mislead. A release for this product has been promised multiple times. Then last fall they came out and said "It's shipping Feb 14 2014, we promise." And in January they said it was slightly delayed again (6-8 weeks IIRC) but it'd have HDMI 2.0, and a few days later they said no 2.0. Then in April they said production would start in April at a low pace, continue in May, and ramp up to full production in June. There are 10 days left in June but there's still no mention of when a release might occur. Hell, right now they are claiming they started shipping two months ago, but it's still not released, how does that work?

You're right, they don't owe us anything. They should never have started talking about this 5 years ago. They shouldn't have promised releases multiple times. They shouldn't have promised features they can't deliver. And they shouldn't have a casual attitude about it and pretend everything is going as planned when it appears that they have missed their target again.
I'm wondering if they didn't beta test in the past, or perhaps they do it on such a limited basis the reason they said they don't have one is because it's not open to regular customers, only a select few they know well. Obviously this time they have a "pilot program" and I'm sure it's needed, based on their prior processors and all the issues they had.
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post #519 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 01:42 PM
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To respond to Perpendicular's claims about uncalled for bashing of Emotiva I'll quote myself from a posting on their forum:


I'm wondering if they didn't beta test in the past, or perhaps they do it on such a limited basis the reason they said they don't have one is because it's not open to regular customers, only a select few they know well. Obviously this time they have a "pilot program" and I'm sure it's needed, based on their prior processors and all the issues they had.
It's not my cup of tea, but I do think that IF the unit hits the market this year "bug-free", but with functional Dirac LE that can be upgraded to full Dirac RCS, the pre/pro isn't as functionally obsolete as some would believe immediately, for the large majority of HT folks with 2.0 to 7.1 configurations. Atmos may or may not take off like, say, the iPad did, where two years from now, it's unthinkable to have a pre/pro without it for all but Luddites and Emotiva diehards. Or it might be the next 3D, fitting a niche market but not transforming the landscape until a critical mass of users and appealing Atmos-mixed content is in the market.

Still, Big Dan and Lonnie have their work cut out for them. Don't look at me, though: my future is pro Trinnov, so this is purely a marketing case study from my POV.

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post #520 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 01:48 PM
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I'll take that as a 'guess' on your part.
Was a guess until Big Dan confirmed "pilot pieces out being tested" on the podcast. No longer in question whether the XMC-1 is going through beta.
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There can be all kinds of reason(s) for the delay in shipping, which none of you or I can even begin to guess.
Speak for yourself. I can (and will) begin to guess the reason. Having watched Theta struggle for a couple years, from announcing a room correction upgrade to actually getting Dirac into their pre-pro, I have just one guess about what is currently delaying the XMC-1. And it isn't a problem with TrueHD decoding.
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When it's ready, it will be announced.
It was announced 6 years ago, and there have been people sitting on the pre-order wait-list for as long.

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post #521 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post
To respond to Perpendicular's claims about uncalled for bashing of Emotiva I'll quote myself from a posting on their forum:


I'm wondering if they didn't beta test in the past, or perhaps they do it on such a limited basis the reason they said they don't have one is because it's not open to regular customers, only a select few they know well. Obviously this time they have a "pilot program" and I'm sure it's needed, based on their prior processors and all the issues they had.
Not directed at any one person but the only thing Wilder than the 5 year xmc role out is complaining about it for almost the same amount of time.......I moved on long ago and only even think of it when these threads roll back around. Someday there may be a release, and real info, if that happened I may look at it again, but till that glorious day just enjoy life as best ya can. Smiley face
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post #522 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 02:56 PM
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I'm guessing based on their April podcast that a lot of the recent delays are also related to constructing their new production building. I believe the change to US manufacturing was made last year and they started construction on the building then. In April they mentioned that the floors were being sealed. That tells me they still had a lot of work to do, they had to get all the work areas up and running, tooling delivered, electrical run to workstations, etc. No small feat there. And if one thing in the chain slips, that delays everything else. When they mentioned that in the podcast I immediately became concerned.

Of course Dirac is another issue. They started last year with Tact and then switched to Dirac, again no small task. I hope they pull that off ok.

I'm not bothered by the delays but rather it's the way in which things are communicated. If they had just gone silent a few years ago and started saying "It's in development, it'll be ready when it's ready" they'd have been much better off. To me the issue is coming out and saying a specific date and then waiting until that deadline is very, very close, or past, then announcing another delay. There's no way that they woke up on Jan. 30th and realized that their deadline looming in two weeks wasn't going to happen, they had to have seen that coming. And then to claim shipping in April when clearly it's in a alpha or beta stage at best. In April if they thought June was feasible they really should have said August to give them an extra 60 days. With a product as complex as this you shouldn't assume it's 60 days out until the beta is well under way.
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post #523 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 03:05 PM
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Not directed at any one person but the only thing Wilder than the 5 year xmc role out is complaining about it for almost the same amount of time.......I moved on long ago and only even think of it when these threads roll back around. Someday there may be a release, and real info, if that happened I may look at it again, but till that glorious day just enjoy life as best ya can. Smiley face
Exactly.

Unfortunately, there are others here that just like to bitch and moan and they're the ones that end up not even purchasing said product. If you don't like it, move on. Stop repeating the same sorry arse complaints already.

And, I'll repeat. Most homes will not even go beyond 5.1, let alone two channels.
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post #524 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 03:32 PM
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And, I'll repeat. Most homes will not even go beyond 5.1, let alone two channels.
I really don't understand why you feel the need to keep repeating this. Most homes, nay, the VAST, VAST MAJORITY of homes have never even heard of Emotiva. Ya know who has heard of Emotiva? A/V enthusiasts. And A/V enthusiasts are precisely the types of folks who DO care around $2K processors. And Dirac LE. And Dolby Atmos. And 7.1. And 9.2. And 13.2. So, while I concede that "most homes will not even go beyond 5.1, let alone two channels," in the context of the XMC-1 discussion, that means nothing.
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Given the XMC-1's price point, I'd say that, contrary to your view, the target audience for this new Emotiva processor likely consists of precisely those people who either own a dedicated room and/or aren't limited to a 5.1 speaker configuration. I think the absence of Atmos processing could be a huge detriment to the XMC-1's success.

Speaking personally, I'm in the middle of adding four more speakers to my dedicated room specifically for Atmos and (hopefully) DTS-UHD. I'll obviously need a new processor and additional outboard amplification to make Atmos happen and I'm looking to buy my new electronics in the fall once Atmos receivers/processors are released. If the XMC-1 supported Atmos, it'd likely be near the top of my list -- object-based audio processing combined with Dirac LE could be killer. However, as it stands now with only 7.1 support and without Atmos, the XMC-1 is nowhere in the running for me.

Unless Dirac LE turns out to be a complete revolution in REQ, I think the XMC-1 will be obsolete once it hits the streets. I can't see how anyone short of the die-hard Emo fans would buy one given the much more compelling state-of-the-art alternatives coming very soon at the same or lower price points.
I think Dirac will provide very worthwhile benefits for people covered by <=7.1.


I hope there are lots of them, since I want the XMC-1 to succeed, but like you, I'll probably wait for Dirac + the other stuff.
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post #526 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 04:15 PM
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According to what I've read, Onkyo have dropped Audyssey across their entire range.
OK - thanks for the link. It isn't what I have heard but we'll know soon enough. If they have opted for AccuEQ across the entire range, then it will have to be demonstrably better than XT32 or Denon will be picking up a lot of customers. If AccuEQ is the REQ solution provided by Cirrus as their 'on chip' solution then from what I have heard to date, it sucks. But we'll have to wait and see.

Although I have been a big fan of XT32 to date, I have no brand loyalty at all, so if AccuEQ is better, then I will go with it. If it's worse I'll switch to Denon. And of course we need to see what Emo's version of Dirac will be like. I personally wouldn't touch an Emo processor if they gave me one for free, but I am hopeful that if Dirac LE is groundbreaking, it may encourage other (mainstream) manufacturers to take it up. But as things stand, and with the current information available, my next purchase looks very much like it will have a Denon badge on it.
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post #527 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 04:20 PM
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I'm interested in what Dolby Atmos could bring to the table but like most people with home theaters, I cannot see adding more than 5 speakers plus a sub in my living room,
That's you but it isn’t everybody. People who want to stick at where they are, or people who want just a soundbar, or people who want a 2.0 system etc etc aren't genuine prospects for Atmos. Your post reads like because you have no use for it, then nobody should, and that is way, way off base.
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post #528 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 04:22 PM
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Unless Dirac LE turns out to be a complete revolution in REQ, I think the XMC-1 will be obsolete once it hits the streets. I can't see how anyone short of the die-hard Emo fans would buy one given the much more compelling state-of-the-art alternatives coming very soon at the same or lower price points.
My point exactly - 100% concurrence.
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post #529 of 1211 Old 06-20-2014, 04:41 PM
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...the only thing Wilder than the 5 year xmc role out is complaining about it for almost the same amount of time.......Smiley face
*mic drop*
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post #530 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 03:05 AM
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I'm curious as to why there is no XMC-1 manual despite Dan sitting on a lot of product? Sounds like he is sitting on a lot of eggs!
That's par for the course for Emotiva, I believe. The Fusion, which has been shipping for months, doesn't have a manual linked from the product page. I don't know if there's a digital copy tucked away somewhere else on their site. It's surprising how crummy Emotiva is for an Internet Direct company at providing digital manuals (or decent manuals in general, if the chatter on their forum is to be believed).
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In the poll on this forum, with over 1400 votes case, just over 90% of the population voted for 7.x or less channels. Obviously it's not a scientific poll, but all the chatter about a 7.2 channel processor not being enough for most enthusiasts just isn't true. There's a large potential market for the XMC-1, if they don't blow it with bugs and an overly crippled version of Dirac.
Fair point, but one only has to have 5.1 channels for Atmos (or object-based audio in general) to be a big deal. One doesn't have to have greater than 7.x channels for Atmos to be a significant upgrade or, in this context, purchase consideration. In addition, and speaking only from personal experience in this case, I would've also voted for 7.x channels until just recently when the Atmos units were announced. Now that I understand Atmos' potential benefits, I'm upgrading to an 11.2 system.

The XMC-1 might be a huge success; who knows? I'm merely suggesting that its omission of Atmos at this stage of the game is a pretty big deal -- not to mention its lack of support for greater than 7.x or HDMI 2.0. Potential buyers will notice those omissions, and while they might not matter to some folks, there will definitely be those who cross the Emo off of their list because of them. Again, I suspect the XMC-1's implementation of Dirac will make or break it in the marketplace.
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The most significant change Atmos brings is height channels. I doubt there's any audible difference between an Atmos mix and a standard 5/7.1 mix on a standard 5/7.1 setup.
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post #533 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 05:07 AM
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The XMC-1 might be a huge success; who knows? I'm merely suggesting that its omission of Atmos at this stage of the game is a pretty big deal -- not to mention its lack of support for greater than 7.x or HDMI 2.0. Potential buyers will notice those omissions, and while they might not matter to some folks, there will definitely be those who cross the Emo off of their list because of them. Again, I suspect the XMC-1's implementation of Dirac will make or break it in the marketplace.
Why stop there ; if I was interested in object audio Ide want more bases covered than just the atmos announced so far Would also want to wait to see how a few height speakers compared to many ; it's good there's always early adopters but I see dual hdmi mvec bd players fixing any 4k/60 routing ; when it comes for real ; not to soon . This following happens all the time ; drip fed new codecs ;

Quote:
“We see object-based audio playing a large role in the future of our industry, and are excited to be working with Cirrus Logic to demonstrate their powerful quad-core audio DSP with the capabilities of decoding object-based audio content delivered in the DTS-UHD codec,” said Joanna Skrdlant, senior director, IC solutions licensing at DTS. “Many of our licensees rely on Cirrus to provide solutions that allow their products to take advantage of DTS audio codecs. Providing licensees with access to the DTS-UHD decoder will allow them to quickly bring to market products capable of delivering new levels of immersive sound enabled by object-based audio.”

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dts-de...130000624.html
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post #534 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 05:19 AM
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I'll asked politely that you don't put words in my mouth. I mentioned I was interested in what Atmos will do in a home setting and would be interested in where it will go but this Thread is not about Atmos that the XMC-1 presumably does not have. We should be talking about what the XMC-1 has which, frankly, has already been discussed to death in between the Emotiva bashing. So, my suggestion is to wait, as long as it takes, until finished product is released so we can talk about our purchases of the XMC-1 and how great the implementation of Dirac is.
Good luck with the XMC-1 when it arrives. I will certainly look forward to reading reports of it. I won’t have one myself - I will be enjoying my Atmos system and looking ahead to real innovation - but I will be interested to read unbiased reviews of the XMC-1, and especially of how Dirac LE compares with Audyssey XT32.
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post #535 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 05:34 AM
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Fair point, but one only has to have 5.1 channels for Atmos (or object-based audio in general) to be a big deal. One doesn't have to have greater than 7.x channels for Atmos to be a significant upgrade or, in this context, purchase consideration. In addition, and speaking only from personal experience in this case, I would've also voted for 7.x channels until just recently when the Atmos units were announced. Now that I understand Atmos' potential benefits, I'm upgrading to an 11.2 system.

The XMC-1 might be a huge success; who knows? I'm merely suggesting that its omission of Atmos at this stage of the game is a pretty big deal -- not to mention its lack of support for greater than 7.x or HDMI 2.0. Potential buyers will notice those omissions, and while they might not matter to some folks, there will definitely be those who cross the Emo off of their list because of them. Again, I suspect the XMC-1's implementation of Dirac will make or break it in the marketplace.
Yes, good point. Before Dolby ProLogic, I'd have voted for a two channel system And before motor cars, I'd have voted for a horse and cart.

Emo have paraded the XMC-1 as a cutting edge, revolutionary product. And they intend to launch it right in the middle of the most revolutionary, cutting edge development in a decade, but without the very features that comprise that revolution and cutting edge. If someone had suggested that at the very time the industry is moving wholesale to object-enabled sound you launched a product with the features and benefits of three years back, the laughter would be heard coast to coast. But because of the ever-delayed launch of the XMC-1 that is exactly what Emo are doing. It is like launching the latest version of the horse and cart just as Henry Ford is starting production of the Model T. And then attempting to defend it by saying "who wants a motorised carriage anyway - the horse and cart has served me well and will continue to do so!".

Or, imagine this: you were launching your fairly expensive, new ProLogic unit just at the same time that everyone else was launching Dolby Digital 5.1. That is what Emo are trying to do now. And imagine how much your Prologic unit would fetch on the secondhand market two years after Dolby Digital 5.1 had found its way into more or less every AVR on the planet. That is how much an XMC-1 will be worth in two years time. Remember people at the time running the exact same arguments? "ProLogic is fine - who needs discrete 5.1? There won’t be any difference in sound for most people. There;s no content. It's just a gimmick. It will never catch on."

And remember when the move began from two channel to multichannel, people running the exact same arguments as they are now? "Who can fit 5 speakers in their room? It's crazy - they're just trying to sell more speakers. Nobody needs more than 2 channels and speakers..." How many these days have HTs with two speakers?

The XMC-1 can be neatly summed up in 4 words IMO: too little too late.


EDIT: I remember throwing a perfectly good ProLogic decoder out with the trash because nobody wanted it after Dolby Digital 5.1 discrete was launched. I'd hate to make the same mistakes over and over.
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post #536 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 07:48 AM
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Off topic posts removed (and probably a few on topic posts in the collateral damage). Please keep on topic - Emotiva XMC-1.
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post #537 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 08:20 AM
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More off topic posts removed. If you want to talk about Atmos, please do it in a different thread.
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post #538 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 08:25 AM
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More off topic posts removed. If you want to talk about Atmos, please do it in a different thread.
I'm sorry, will do.
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post #539 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 09:53 AM
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Why stop there ; if I was interested in object audio Ide want more bases covered than just the atmos announced so far Would also want to wait to see how a few height speakers compared to many ; it's good there's always early adopters but I see dual hdmi mvec bd players fixing any 4k/60 routing ; when it comes for real ; not to soon . This following happens all the time ; drip fed new codecs ;




http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dts-de...130000624.html
That's true, but it's already been suggested that DTS-UHD might be available as a firmware update to the upcoming Atmos receivers.
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post #540 of 1211 Old 06-21-2014, 09:58 AM
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At emofest in Atl. Will attempt to update later with pics. Man this mobile version still sucks👎
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