Emotiva XMC-1 coming soon (please limit posts to technical issues) - Page 36 - AVS Forum
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post #1051 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 01:59 PM
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Didn't Emotiva get 3|+(# slapped when they announced that the XMC-1 would "ship soon" without TacT? TacT was promised as a future upgrade, hardware all done, simple firmware load and you're all set. I think that was after EmoFest 2012.

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post #1052 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
No Markus. It isn't peculiar at all.

Atmos isn't set to officially launch until the fall.

Three of the manufacturers have announced products with future support when they are ready.

If you fail to see the distinction between this ongoing fiasco and what Pioneer is doing there is no help for you.
I was commenting on people's reactions to announcements to unavailable products (both the XMC-1 nor Dolby Atmos are available to consumers at this point in time and never have been) not about anything else. Does that help you?

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post #1053 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 04:29 PM
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I was commenting on people's reactions to announcements to unavailable products (both the XMC-1 nor Dolby Atmos are available to consumers at this point in time and never have been) not about anything else. Does that help you?
But the issue really is not what people in forums, Lounges or elsewhere are saying. The key difference is in what the manufacturers were saying.

Pioneer and the others said right up front that the first shipments wouldn't have Atmos -- that would come later in an update. On the other hand, Emotiva had to know full well that Dirac wasn't ready and yet they somehow forgot to mention that in either the podcast, the "reservation is ready" emails or even in the comments from the producer guy who seemed not to even know what it was. Sorry, the "majors" were quite transparent in their "we'll have it, but not until sometime later" statements. Emotiva was quite the opposite: Opaque to something they knew but somehow forgot to mention until they got caught by their own people in the Lounge. If they didn't get caught when were they going to tell people about this?

Sorry, something just doesn't add up here.

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post #1054 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 05:16 PM
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USB flash? As in "separate program running on PC or Mac, as per the UMC-1 and UMC-200"?

No - claimed to be very different than the UMC-1 or -200. Either receive from Emotiva the file or download it yourself onto a flash drive, plug it in, and that's all. Much like many other manufacturers do (I have done this more than once with a Sony BluRay). Of course, that's what is claimed. We will see what really happens and how reliable it is.
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post #1055 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 05:21 PM
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I find it odd that Dan did not disclose this when making the big announcement yesterday but instead, he lead everyone to believe that the XMC is complete and will start shipping next week. By not having Dirac it is missing it's most important feature!
Also, I thought that Dirac was successfully implemented in the XMC but according to KeithL at Emotiva, the only reason they could not get it to work at the Atlanta show last month was due to the hotel internet connection.

I am disappointed Dan didn't disclose this info on the podcast or his post on the Lounge the day before. He had to know it then, but chose not to say anything. Why? No clue...I would choose a far different communication strategy if I were him.


Regarding Atlanta, to be fair - KeithL did say there were issues other than the internet connection. This has (after today's confirmation about no initial DIRAC) been confirmed by Big Dan himself on the Lounge. He claims the fix is simple and will be within 60 days at most. We'll see. I can't trust what he says, so I just look for the actions that follow the words and don't get all bound-up about it. I suggest we all take that stance.
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post #1056 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 05:24 PM
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Too little (no atmos, no dirac, no HDMI 2.0)

Too late (years past target date and era of interest)

Too risky (failed promises on nearly ever single Emotiva or Sherbourn avr/prepro)


I'm out.



Emotiva likely knows the consumers are losing interest (preorders dropping, forum negativitey)and they are desparate to recoup some major R&D cost on a product that that otherwise may never sell more than a few dozen units. If they wait 3 more months Atmos will be live and who would ever buy a new prepro without the next gen Dolby Atmos at that time. The window is NOW if they want to sell any of these and they know it. This sounds like a major impendending failure. Emotiva, re-evaluate if its really worth it to continue to tarnish your brand with these prepros that never end up more than half baked. You make great amps - stick to what your great at. No more Michael Jordan baseball.

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post #1057 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 05:31 PM
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Seems the 'natives' are restless over at the Lounge over the inexplicable slip by Laufman in not mentioning that his XMC-1 won't be shipping with Dirac. He's getting hosed pretty badly - and by most accounts he deserves all of it! Can Dan ever quit tripping over himself?

At least the UMC-1 shipped fully implemented - as lackluster as EmoQ was - among other problems. If any of you are thinking about buying the XMC-1 just remember the promised firmware updates for the UMC-1 that haven't been delivered. It still has bugs that haven't been addressed and it seems less likely that it'll get the needed attention as time slips by. Some people have zero problems and others have nothing but problems. I tried one out a while back. I got tired of it taking 8-10 seconds to switch HDMI sources - and longer than that for the audio to sync up and work. And yes - I timed it 6-8 times. FWIW the UMC-200 is quick in that category.

The UMC-1 has now been around for 2 years - it's MSRP was (IIRC) $699. One sold on ebay the other day for under $200. The UMC-200 is faring a bit better in that regard - prices for it are 'holding' at around $400-450. Makes you wonder what an XMC-1 will fetch in two years.

I get the feeling that Emotiva should have stayed with 2 channel preamps and amps.

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post #1058 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 06:18 PM
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Maybe nit picking, but it seems odd that they are (apparently) not shipping the mic with the units. I could be wrong here, but thought I saw that reported elsewhere. Open to corrections if I'm wrong.

However, if that IS the case, isn't it strange that they wouldn't ship it with the unit and just include a note along the lines of "please don't use this until you get the software for Dirac installed". A second shipment will cost them money and at least from here that sounds like it's a waste.

Why would they throw that money out the window? Am I missing something here?
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post #1059 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 07:41 PM
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I've been a fairly long time member of their forum as I liked the idea of what they were doing and their price/performance was amazing. I had the UMC-1 and had a few of the issues but none big enough to really bother me. I ended up selling it recently for $300 Can so probably a third of what I originally paid. I did pick up the Sherbourn PT-7030 during the warehouse sale though and love it. While it's not perfect by any means it has less bugs than the UMC-1 and the sound is stellar. I aslo have the UPA-7 which is a great unit as well.

The whole debacle of the XMC-1 and the way they run their company is a joke frankly. I post under the same name their as I do here and have let them know what I think haha.

I don't think Atmos is going to be an issue really as there really is no point to it for 5.1 or 7.1 setups from what all the data and people are saying (so far anyways). At this point it's about as important as Dolby IIZ as far as I see it. So they have about a year before Armos becomes the next big thing or just fizzles out.

Honestly, who knows what goes through Dan's head. I don't understand how someone can make these kinds of stupid decisions year after year. I'll tell you one thing, if he wasn't the owner he would have been fired ages ago. I would never buy anything from them if the item was missing anything. You just can't trust their word (they've lied and broken a lot of promises over the years. Frankly I can't remember a time when something they said or promised wasn't false in one way or another) and I've personally been burned by it.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is an amazing sounding unit and one of the best at it's price in about 6 months or so. But by then who knows what kind of reputation they will have as it's not looking good and only getting worse.
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post #1060 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 07:51 PM
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My guess is that Emotiva does not have a strong cash position. Consider they ran two promotions - the e-Club and the millionaire's club. That's followed by a sale to move stuff quickly to generate some cash. Now they'll sell you an XTC but without a microphone or Dirac for around two months.

Is something programming wise holding up Dirac? That's possible. But what if the reason has to do that the Dirac folks need a payment. A substantial one before they'll 'unlock' the XTC? The XTC development has not been very smooth. Assuming TacT was their first option, considerable monies had to have been expended only to ultimately realize TacT was a bust. Looks to me like they got hoed by Dr. Boz, intentionally or otherwise. Time to regroup and chart a new path. Scrap all that development work, get new partners, spend bucks on R&D while eating the bucks that got flushed down the crapper.

Oh and as a guess, I think the 2K price is going to go up after we start seeing reviews.

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post #1061 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 08:12 PM
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I remember my brief experience with the pt-7020c4 and the "unfinished" buggy room correction (straight from emo tech support's mouth). Unfinished from Emo from my experience means never. I owned it for about 3 months before I sold it on ebay.
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post #1062 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 08:25 PM
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post #1063 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 08:36 PM
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Wow, it's been six years and they were "close" to having a complete unit and didn't just wait until it was totally functioning before releasing it? Wtf?


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My guess is that they know what is on the horizon from the competition. Getting this unit out before the new Atmos equipped units hit the streets this fall is probably job 1 at this point. It can be the only reason for a launch without the key ingredient. They are reading these forums and know what it going on and where people are headed. I myself would still like to own to an XMC-1 Atmos or not. I still think it is going to be a great unit. Again for me it would be a perfect unit. I don't need or use half the stuff on my 4520 and I would love to give Dirac a shot. I want to hear some real user feedback before I even reconsider it.

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Man Emotiva just never seems to learn from their mistakes, it's just one thing after another lol
Personally I can not take ANY review seriously that isn't from an average joe and even that is a stretch. If you look at Glenns Equipment, it's bargan basement stuff at best. Id bet you could give him a old Emotiva branded CB radio and he'd says it's the tits! lol

I'd love to see/hear one on person but it's lacking so many features others have/will have that I want.

I can't wait for Andrews review on the XMC-1…… :roll eyes:
Best thing I can say for them to do is not mention any upcoming products anymore. Best thing to do is announce that new things are coming and leave it at that. Promising products and putting people on a list and not delivering is really bad news.

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post #1064 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 09:33 PM
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Best thing I can say for them to do is not mention any upcoming products anymore. Best thing to do is announce that new things are coming and leave it at that. Promising products and putting people on a list and not delivering is really bad news.
No kidding, how an entire company and their employees can't figure that out is beyond insane. I hope they take a look at themselves and realize how much of an utter failure their marketing has been for their announced products. They can't seem to learn to keep their yaps shut. lol

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post #1065 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 09:38 PM
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Maybe nit picking, but it seems odd that they are (apparently) not shipping the mic with the units. I could be wrong here, but thought I saw that reported elsewhere. Open to corrections if I'm wrong.

However, if that IS the case, isn't it strange that they wouldn't ship it with the unit and just include a note along the lines of "please don't use this until you get the software for Dirac installed". A second shipment will cost them money and at least from here that sounds like it's a waste.

Why would they throw that money out the window? Am I missing something here?
I was thinking the same thing. IF, Dirac is absolutely going to be included in 2 months, why not ship the microphone with the units now and you can either download the Dirac software or they can send the USB drive. Surely at this point they have the microphone ready to ship,but maybe they don't have it so they can't ship it. I know this is all speculation but given their track record I wouldn't be willing to risk whether Dirac will be available and will function until it is in customers hands.
When a company has this kind of history, I think the time for trusting them has long since past.
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post #1066 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 09:43 PM
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No kidding, how an entire company and their employees can't figure that out is beyond insane. I hope they take a look at themselves and realize how much of an utter failure their marketing has been for their announced products. They can't seem to learn to keep their yaps shut. lol
I'm with you there N8DOGG. I understand completely why you left the Emo forums. The frustration of the people within the organization is almost too much for me to bare. The UMC-1 and now the XMC-1 are model examples of what not to do when announcing, marketing, and releasing a product. I waited more than two years for the XMC-1 and now that is finally starting to ship we find out that it will not ship with Dirac immediately. How in the hell did that happen? This product has been in the works for years. That's why I took my money and went with Krell. They have they're own problems, but at least they have a legendary history of outstanding products (with the requisite price). I will continue to buy Emotiva products, but they have lost my processor business for the foreseeable future.

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post #1067 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 10:19 PM
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My guess is that Emotiva does not have a strong cash position. Consider they ran two promotions - the e-Club and the millionaire's club. That's followed by a sale to move stuff quickly to generate some cash. Now they'll sell you an XTC but without a microphone or Dirac for around two months.

Is something programming wise holding up Dirac? That's possible. But what if the reason has to do that the Dirac folks need a payment. A substantial one before they'll 'unlock' the XTC? The XTC development has not been very smooth. Assuming TacT was their first option, considerable monies had to have been expended only to ultimately realize TacT was a bust. Looks to me like they got hoed by Dr. Boz, intentionally or otherwise. Time to regroup and chart a new path. Scrap all that development work, get new partners, spend bucks on R&D while eating the bucks that got flushed down the crapper.

Oh and as a guess, I think the 2K price is going to go up after we start seeing reviews.


This makes an awful lot of sense.
Sad situation but probably true.

If they are that hard up for cash, this is a strange product to bet the farm on.
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post #1068 of 1210 Old 07-12-2014, 11:12 PM
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Everyone express their opinion regarding the Emotiva XMC-1 surround sound processor. ...Coming soon, and without DIRAC inside of it, which was one of the MAJOR reasons most people were all excited about.
DIRAC Live is an audio technical advancement of high caliber in the world of Room Equalization and Correction for people's high-end stereo sound systems and surround home systems.

All the people here in this thread are very intelligent people, and I too read the Emotiva's company founder post in that thread started by Glen @ the Emotiva Lounge.

What still amazes me is that some people still believe in a dream!

DIRAC Live you can have right now without the XMC-1, and with the XMC-1 you can have it too, separately by purchasing it for an additional $600 +/- (I believe) online (Internet program for your PC, or Mac) and it's better to have the XMC-1 without it (now) than not having an XMC-1 at all, no?
If you say yes, then just buy it and after two months you'll see what's truly in it for you.
If you say no, then just don't buy it and in two months you'll see what's truly in it for you.

What the Emotiva's president said in his post was very clear; they are releasing the XMC-1 without DIRAC fully implemented yet, but it is a future sure thing.

How many times do you need to be comforted before you see the light?

Me, personally, I thing this all affair is so sad that it don't need anymore talking about it ever.
Because, it would simply aggravate this all affair even more.
One man started all of that, with his accomplices, and now we (you guys) seem to be debating if this is real or just an illusion.

Like I said, you can get DIRAC Live right now as a separate purchase from the Internet.
Or you can still believe...
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post #1069 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 12:12 AM
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Can someone tell me how Dirac Live works when it's not in a pre/pro? Does it run on a PC and only affect what's played using the PC as the source? If so I just don't see how that's competitive.

Anyways, as for the microphone not being included, that is especially worrying. Dan posted somewhere that what is holding Dirac up is the software portion that is responsible for licensing and sending the data back to Dirac to be crunched then receive the data, or something like that. I work in software development, and my current company as well as other places I have worked have used different licensing schemes where the clients have to connect to our licensing server to validate their copies to run, and I know that is a constant pain in the ass and am grateful to not have to work on it. It could be that getting this new version to run on the XMC-1 and establish the network connection and make it work appropriately all the time has just been problematic. In fact the problem could even fall with Dirac and their licensing server. And if that's the case then it's just a matter of working out the kinks and then all will be well, and it can be safely assumed they have the necessary processing power in the XMC-1 to successfully implement Dirac. But the fact that they aren't including the microphone makes it sound like there is something beyond licensing that's the hold up. Seeing as how they are promising better/easier firmware updates with the XMC-1 then when they've fixed the problem people could just flash via ethernet, a practically no-cost option for Emotiva. But now they have to spend the extra money boxing up the microphone and shipping it out separate, presumably with a flash drive which we know to be unneeded.

As for Atmos. While I'm considering giving it a try in the next year or two, I bet there are a lot of people for whom 5.1 or 7.1 is sufficient. They have a lot of hard core 2 channel fans at the Emotiva forum, and for them when it comes to home theater they don't want more than 5 or 7 channels. If I didn't have easy access to my attic to run some ceiling speakers I probably wouldn't even give Atmos a thought. Heck, I just bought a Denon x4000 last month, and I'm not at all bothered by that even though I knew Atmos was coming. It sounds like a cool technology, but until I hear a good demo I just don't think it's that big of a deal, and I imagine a good number of people are that way. Of course the fact that they can't handle PLIIz or Audyssey DSX is pretty sad. I'm going to wait a bit to decide if there's enough reason to go with Atmos, and I may want to wait until the second generation of Atmos receivers to make sure the home implementation is all it should be.

If the XMC-1 had been available a month ago, as their site claims it was, I might have gone for it, if Dirac was implemented that is. And I would have been quite happy with 7.1. What kind of sucks is that when I was wiring my home theater earlier this year I was planning on the XMC-1, so I didn't wire for front height speakers, now I wish I did since my Denon can handle that. I've got to stick my head up in the attic and see how my access is to the front wall, as I might be able to pull that off. But I'll probably wait until the heat of the summer is past.

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post #1070 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 02:37 AM
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I post under the same name their as I do here and have let them know what I think.
Saw the thread you started there and thought your points were valid. In reply, the fanboys started talking about Mississippi mud pies. It's like another planet.

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post #1071 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 02:43 AM
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So who has pre-ordered? Thing is I suppose if it were quite cheap you wouldn't mind minor bugs.ie the Sherbourne 7030 went for $500 on close out sale, that is absurd cheap. For that, if it didn't lock onto signal or some other annoyance you wouldn't mind so much.

But on a $2000 unit? That's similar in price to my second hand Lexicon MC-8 I bought a few years ago. I want a sorted unit.

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post #1072 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 03:02 AM
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Can someone tell me how Dirac Live works when it's not in a pre/pro? Does it run on a PC and only affect what's played using the PC as the source?
Yes, it works like that. It's a virtual audio processor that any sound leaving the PC has to pass.

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post #1073 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 08:47 AM
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I find the "missing mic" deal bizarre too. Even if "Volume Shipping in June" means completed hardware is shipping to a warehouse somewhere, you would expect the box to contain the XMC-1, remote, and mic.

Perhaps Dirac is holding up the whole thing until they are assured that XMC-1 buyers will have a properly calibrated mic. After all, garbage in = garbage out.

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post #1074 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 08:53 AM
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^
Maybe the mic and software is shipping from Dirac?

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post #1075 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 08:54 AM
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Saw the thread you started there and thought your points were valid. In reply, the fanboys started talking about Mississippi mud pies. It's like another planet.
Of course they did, but I was expecting that. Sometimes I'm not sure why I bother but the potential for this company is huge. Would like to see them succeed but they definitely need to make some big changes.
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post #1076 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 08:59 AM
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It was absurdly cheap (actually $550 on closeout sale, came to $860 Can due to low dollar but still cheaper than the UMC-1) and frankly sounds amazing. The difference between the UMC-1 and PT-7030 is quite large sound wise. It also has less bugs, at least my model does anyways. I have no doubt that they have the ability to make the XMC-1 sound amazing but we will have to see. I just don't know if it will be that big of a jump from the 7030. I don't have a lot of experience with high end (or even mid-high end haha) so I have no clue how the 7030 compares to other units in it's original price bracket, although it does get good reviews.

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So who has pre-ordered? Thing is I suppose if it were quite cheap you wouldn't mind minor bugs.ie the Sherbourne 7030 went for $500 on close out sale, that is absurd cheap. For that, if it didn't lock onto signal or some other annoyance you wouldn't mind so much.

But on a $2000 unit? That's similar in price to my second hand Lexicon MC-8 I bought a few years ago. I want a sorted unit.
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post #1077 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 09:21 AM
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This makes an awful lot of sense.
Sad situation but probably true.

If they are that hard up for cash, this is a strange product to bet the farm on.
Expanding to fast and trying to be something your not is the problem. They were and still are good at building good affordable amps to the average Joe. Personally I would have liked to have see some tube amps by now. They need to get back to what they were.
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post #1078 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 09:55 AM
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I wonder if the delay could be in Emotiva's update server. This is their first attempt at live updates, I think. UMC-1 and UMC-200 update via flash. What about the Sherbourn units??

I can't believe that Dirac is the holdup, at least from a technical standpoint. They have ported their software to many devices. And the Datasat 20i with Dirac uses the Momentum Data Systems DSP subsystem, as does XMC-1. Dirac and MDS work together there, so why wouldn't it be trivial to port to the DSP board in the XMC-1?

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post #1079 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 09:56 AM
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If I'm not mistaken, back when they were associated with AV 451, they did have a processor of sorts, so this has always been a part of their DNA. Is there a significant market for tube amps? Maybe they've got fat margins?

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post #1080 of 1210 Old 07-13-2014, 11:30 AM
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This cross my mind as the others have menentioned, the lack of funds could be a huge reason for the latest debacle. Purchasing companies that aren't doing well, can't help either.

Hope all is goes their way sooner rather later, not too sure they can take more of this. I'm looking for a new pre/pro and would love to see this it with little issues as possible.


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