Emotiva XMC-1 coming soon (please limit posts to technical issues) - Page 39 - AVS Forum
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post #1141 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Here is one of the first end user's threads:

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...xmc-1-da-house
What do you mean "one of the"? I looked for other end users and didn't find another. Do you know of anyone besides Geebo that got one?

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post #1142 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 01:18 AM
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It may very well be at least as good as high end processors with a similar feature set, like the Classe SSP800.
While the sonic quality of a complex audio product is based on many factors, one that gets a lot of attention as being pivotal is the DAC chips. Both the XMC-1 and the SSP-800 use TI (Burr Brown) chips. The similarity ends there.

XMC-1: ..DSD 1793, ..S/N 113 dB, THD+N 0.001%, ..$2.36 (small quantity prices for comparison only)
SSP-800: PCM 1792A, S/N 127 dB, THD+N 0.0004%, $7.08 (used for front channels)
SSP-800: PCM 1796, ..S/N 123 dB, THD+N 0.0005%, $2.70 (used for surround channels)

And there's more to it than DAC chips. A couple other design features of the SSP-800:
1) Up to 10 layer PCBs which will provide better isolation between power and ground planes and will reduce potentially harmful interference thus improving signal integrity.
2) Opto-couplers and low voltage differential signal (LVDS) pathways thoroughly isolate audio circuits, video circuits, and control circuits.

Well, you get the idea...

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post #1143 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
What do you mean "one of the"? I looked for other end users and didn't find another. Do you know of anyone besides Geebo that got one?
I believe user Bootman has received his and gave some thoughts. Perhaps i am mistaken and he has only ordered it. I didn't go back to look and verify.

Edit - yeah thinking about it you are right. They started shipping this past Friday. Geebo got his because he picked it up from Emotiva. I retract that others besides Geebo and the mods have responded with feedback.

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post #1144 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post
where?
Here:

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...st-data?page=1
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post #1145 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Who are these users? The selected beta testers? Is there any real users?
I was specifically referring to what I was reading (on the forum and in PM's) from geebo, lcseminole, hemster, jlafrenz, and andrew robinson. Geebo is, to my knowledge, the only non-beta tester in the group because as someone noted - he drove over to pick his up.

While lcseminole, hemster, and jlafrenz are beta testers and are mods', I know them each well enough to know that they are being honest. Jlafrenz is very picky about his DAC's and for him to make the statements he's made about the XMC as a 2-channel machine actually floored me.

Further, while some could doubt Andrew's integrity due to Emotiva being his employer - if you read his review, he did not cut them slack across the board. I confess I did not like him when I met him in person last year, but he has made some very public statements that are winning me over. I am convinced he's a man of integrity.

We'll see a lot more paying customer reviews over the next 2 weeks, but so far - from comments of those I trust and from the data they have presented...this is looking like a very good machine. And, it appears to be operating very stable also...this is by no means a UMC-1 debacle at all.
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post #1146 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 02:55 PM
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^ I guess we didn't read the same review then, to quote and this is heady stuff:

"I’ve played with my share of AV processors over the years and the XMC-1 has more in common with say the Meridian G65 or 861V8 than it does with the Integra DHC 80.3. Allow me to explain. Earlier in my review I said the XMC-1 was more akin to a multi-channel, analog-only preamp that just so happened to possess video chops too. This is the type of language I would use to describe the Meridian 861V8, for it too has placed its focus squarely on the reproduction of sound rather than the processing of video. In that respect, the XMC-1, sonically, is a closer rival to the Meridian, Classe and Mark Levinson products, than it is to a Japanese big-box brand. In truth, and I said this the day after receiving my XMC-1 for evaluation, I feel the XMC-1′s overall sonic character is extremely reminiscent of Meridian’s G Series components, as well as Classe’s current SSP-800, and even Mark Levinson’s now discontinued No.502 processor -albeit with a few more modern technological touches.
With the XMC-1, Emotiva wanted to make a reference-caliber, AV processor that was capable of holding its own against the likes of the high-end boutique brands. I think they’ve accomplished their mission objective, for while some may dismiss the XMC-1 as being behind the curve or too little too late, great sound quality is great sound quality, which is something the XMC-1 a) possesses in spades and b) never becomes obsolete."

"And the reality is pretty simple; the XMC-1 is what was promised, way back in the beginning, which was a reference-caliber, multi-channel preamp processor for the everyman.
You can throw all the talk about, video processing this, Dolby Atmos that, and anything else you want into the mix, but at the end of the day, those were not items that the XMC-1 was ever designed to address. The fact that it does address them, and in some instances includes them, for example support of 4K resolution (as it sits today), is but icing on the cake.
The fact that the internal architecture has already proven to be robust enough to be updated without any major overhauls only speaks to the future possibilities of the XMC-1 platform -Dolby Atmos anyone? But we must stop living in a future that has yet to be written and deal with the present, for technology will always evolve, all we can help is the here and now. Right here, right now, the XMC-1 is as good an AV preamp processor in terms of its absolute sonic performance as you can hope for, and expect to find in the marketplace today, regardless of price."

After reading that if he worked for me I would be giving him a pay raise. How is this review anything but a glowing endorsement of a product that is still under construction? I bet where his check comes from never entered his mind and that's why one shouldn't review the equipment of those they work for. It would be hard if not impossible for anyone in that situation to be impartial. By the way any typos are his, as I mentioned his quotes not mine.

I also think its irresponsible to suggest that the unit will eventually have Atmos when Dirac has yet to be delivered. One step at time Emo.
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post #1147 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 03:47 PM
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Andrew just recently put an ethics statement on his website, with a whole long sob story about how he didn't think it would ever be necessary, that it's in his contract with Emotiva that they'll have no input on his website, and so on, but the criticism with regards to his review has caused him to write that. On the Emo forum the fanboys are all backing him with "haters gonna hate" type posts.

It's ridiculous. Anyone that writes reviews and is employed in some capacity by a company in the industry they review should always be clear in each review about their potential conflict of interest. Now if he was writing about turntables or subwoofers or something else Emotiva doesn't sell, it wouldn't be a big deal. But if he is reviewing an Emotiva product, or any other amp, processor, or CD player, or anything else directly competing with Emotiva, it is only right that he state somewhere in the review that he is an employee of Emotiva. Now at times he, and the Emo fanboys, are trying to claim that it is "common" knowledge that he works for Emotiva. But that is only true on their forum. Outside of there it's hardly common knowledge. And if someone received the link to his review on his website and someone went and read that they'd have to do a bunch of searching around to establish that the Andrew Robinson that owns arccinema.com is the same Andrew Robinson that works for Emotiva. Even now you still have to follow a link on his site to the ethics statement as it is not established within the review that he has a professional relationship with Emotiva.

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post #1148 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 03:55 PM
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Who can forget when he got a pair of Tekton speakers for nothing because they were to be used for an upcoming film project or something and ran interference for Eric Alexander for months.

It wasn't that long ago there was this guy who ran a somewhat popular audio business, now defunct. He would always compare the products he sold to those he said he owned but as it turned out, he didn't own any of the stuff he said he had. That said, I'm sure it's a nice product. Does anyone know if the units have serial numbers?

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post #1149 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
^ I guess we didn't read the same review then, to quote and this is heady stuff:

After reading that if he worked for me I would be giving him a pay raise. How is this review anything but a glowing endorsement of a product that is still under construction? I bet where his check comes from never entered his mind and that's why one shouldn't review the equipment of those they work for. It would be hard if not impossible for anyone in that situation to be impartial. By the way any typos are his, as I mentioned his quotes not mine.

I also think its irresponsible to suggest that the unit will eventually have Atmos when Dirac has yet to be delivered. One step at time Emo.

Your faith in mankind to be honest is surprisingly low, and I notice how you stick your whole argument to one person vs. the group I referred to. Sure, shoot down comments from 1 of 5 I refer to. That does not diminish the comments of the other 4...which, by the way - are quite consistent with the 1 you discredit. And all of their comments are consistent with what the data says it should do. And, perhaps you didn't read the parts where Andrew acknowledges outages with the product as it exists as well as the flaws re. communication through its development. I call that balanced reporting...balanced enough that if I were his boss, I'd hold on the raise you propose. And, I would thank him for his honesty as it makes the glowing parts actually believable that he doesn't gloss over issues.


As far as Atmos and the XMC...truthfully...who knows? Do you, with certainty know it never will? Unless you have inside info that even an employee of Emotiva does not, then I will take your comment with a grain of salt. Your statement is every bit as irresponsible as his, if you think his is so.


Meanwhile - sticking to the topic...it appears based on published data and reports from trustable beta testers (whom I personally know...do you?) and 1 trustable purchaser so far (whom I personally know...do you?)...that this machine is something to consider. For you, maybe not. Your loss.


Have a nice day.
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post #1150 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post
Andrew just recently put an ethics statement on his website, with a whole long sob story about how he didn't think it would ever be necessary, that it's in his contract with Emotiva that they'll have no input on his website, and so on, but the criticism with regards to his review has caused him to write that. On the Emo forum the fanboys are all backing him with "haters gonna hate" type posts.

It's ridiculous. Anyone that writes reviews and is employed in some capacity by a company in the industry they review should always be clear in each review about their potential conflict of interest. Now if he was writing about turntables or subwoofers or something else Emotiva doesn't sell, it wouldn't be a big deal. But if he is reviewing an Emotiva product, or any other amp, processor, or CD player, or anything else directly competing with Emotiva, it is only right that he state somewhere in the review that he is an employee of Emotiva. Now at times he, and the Emo fanboys, are trying to claim that it is "common" knowledge that he works for Emotiva. But that is only true on their forum. Outside of there it's hardly common knowledge. And if someone received the link to his review on his website and someone went and read that they'd have to do a bunch of searching around to establish that the Andrew Robinson that owns arccinema.com is the same Andrew Robinson that works for Emotiva. Even now you still have to follow a link on his site to the ethics statement as it is not established within the review that he has a professional relationship with Emotiva.

So, if you don't trust his reviews...don't read them.
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post #1151 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by carfanm View Post
I was specifically referring to what I was reading (on the forum and in PM's) from geebo, lcseminole, hemster, jlafrenz, and andrew robinson. Geebo is, to my knowledge, the only non-beta tester in the group because as someone noted - he drove over to pick his up.

While lcseminole, hemster, and jlafrenz are beta testers and are mods', I know them each well enough to know that they are being honest. Jlafrenz is very picky about his DAC's and for him to make the statements he's made about the XMC as a 2-channel machine actually floored me.

Further, while some could doubt Andrew's integrity due to Emotiva being his employer - if you read his review, he did not cut them slack across the board. I confess I did not like him when I met him in person last year, but he has made some very public statements that are winning me over. I am convinced he's a man of integrity.

We'll see a lot more paying customer reviews over the next 2 weeks, but so far - from comments of those I trust and from the data they have presented...this is looking like a very good machine. And, it appears to be operating very stable also...this is by no means a UMC-1 debacle at all.
When you say "I know them well enough", do you mean in person, or via the Lounge forums?
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post #1152 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post
...Anyone that writes reviews and is employed in some capacity by a company in the industry they review should always be clear in each review about their potential conflict of interest. Now if he was writing about turntables or subwoofers or something else Emotiva doesn't sell, it wouldn't be a big deal...
In the world of REAL journalistic ethics, like we were taught in J-School, you now only should disclose when you write about something made by a company where you have an economic interest, you ALSO have to make a similar disclosure when you write about any product in that category. For example, presume that Andrew wrote a review of the Theta, Krell, DataSat, Classe or other products. There, too, a disclaimer is required so that any comments that might be interpreted as negative are viewed in the light of a connection to a competitor to the product under review.

I don't see Andrew as having done that, but there is no secret to what the standard is for ethical behavior for ALL reviewers. This is particularly so in the age of the bloggers.
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post #1153 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 05:25 PM
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carfanm, I was commenting on Andrews please for sympathy. He's acting as if he did nothing wrong and is being harassed only for saying positive things about the XMC-1. He never acknowledges that his lack of ethics is apparent when he writes reviews without disclosing in each one his connection to Emotiva. His statement of ethics isn't good enough. In fact it's nothing but a way to weasel out of his responsibilities as a journalist.

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In the world of REAL journalistic ethics, like we were taught in J-School, you now only should disclose when you write about something made by a company where you have an economic interest, you ALSO have to make a similar disclosure when you write about any product in that category. For example, presume that Andrew wrote a review of the Theta, Krell, DataSat, Classe or other products. There, too, a disclaimer is required so that any comments that might be interpreted as negative are viewed in the light of a connection to a competitor to the product under review.

I don't see Andrew as having done that, but there is no secret to what the standard is for ethical behavior for ALL reviewers. This is particularly so in the age of the bloggers.
That was exactly my point.

In every review he writes while employed by Emotiva that is related to Emotiva or a competitor, and for good measure any A/V company, should include a statement like the following:
Quote:
In full disclosure it should be noted that the author was employed by Emotiva when this review was written.
Reviews directly related to Emotiva when he is no longer employed by them should also include a similar disclosure. Merely putting an ethics statement on the site isn't good enough. If he changes jobs he'll likely remove that statement, or modify it to reflect his current employment. And frankly his claim that it's in his contract that Emotiva cannot influence his website is b.s. and irrelevant, they are his employer, it will affect his judgement regardless of what he thinks.
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post #1154 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 06:03 PM
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So, if you don't trust his reviews...don't read them.
I think you totally missed Keith's point.

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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #1155 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 06:09 PM
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I was specifically referring to what I was reading (on the forum and in PM's) from geebo, lcseminole, hemster, jlafrenz, and andrew robinson. Geebo is, to my knowledge, the only non-beta tester in the group because as someone noted - he drove over to pick his up.

While lcseminole, hemster, and jlafrenz are beta testers and are mods', I know them each well enough to know that they are being honest. Jlafrenz is very picky about his DAC's and for him to make the statements he's made about the XMC as a 2-channel machine actually floored me.
I was a Lounge member for a number of years. I can say without question that all the Lounge members you mentioned above are very knowledgeable in this A/V hobby of ours. But I will also say all of those listed are very pro-Emotiva. Any negative comments about an Emotiva component would be hard to come by from that group. No offense to them as a whole but just my honest opinion.

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post #1156 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 06:14 PM
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Apologies if my quoting Andrew's review offended anyone - just pointing out that it was an extremely positive review.

Specs and DACs are great, but past a certain point indistinguishable to most of us but those magical reviewers. XMC-1 specs do look good, but no better than a lot of other similar products on the market today - see Marantz 8801 and others. So then it comes down to features or lack of and price (later for some of us).

So far glowing reviews from Emo moderators with racks full of Emo gear, not convincing me to buy it yet. Lack of Dirac, not knowing how Dirac will be implemented, if Atmos will be delivered within the next year (even if limited to 5.1.2), and the bass management issue with 2 subs - these require answers and solutions before I part with $2k. If it was only $1200 it might be easier to take a plunge.

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post #1157 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 07:10 PM
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What discounts do Emotiva moderators enjoy and does Robinson have a sweeter deal?

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post #1158 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 07:14 PM
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^^^That seems to be the issue, overpriced - under featured. If it would have been delivered at the original price it would be a good deal.
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He is being paid by emo

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post #1160 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 07:51 PM
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I'll wait for reviews from owners and professional reviewers who are impartial and have no connection to Emotiva either by employment or forum ties.

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post #1161 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 07:57 PM
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I was a Lounge member for a number of years. I can say without question that all the Lounge members you mentioned above are very knowledgeable in this A/V hobby of ours. But I will also say all of those listed are very pro-Emotiva. Any negative comments about an Emotiva component would be hard to come by from that group. No offense to them as a whole but just my honest opinion.

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post #1162 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 08:03 PM
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I believe user Bootman has received his and gave some thoughts. Perhaps i am mistaken and he has only ordered it. I didn't go back to look and verify.

Edit - yeah thinking about it you are right. They started shipping this past Friday. Geebo got his because he picked it up from Emotiva. I retract that others besides Geebo and the mods have responded with feedback.
I don't have one.
I did receive the email early but told them I would wait until DIRAC is available before considering a purchase.
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post #1163 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 08:14 PM
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I don't have one.
I did receive the email early but told them I would wait until DIRAC is available before considering a purchase.
I said the same thing, but some people think that is good enough with out it. No Dirac is what it was like driving my girlfriends/Fiancé's 1993 Ford Mustang LX 2.3 Needlees to say that changed to a 5.0 after the wedding

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My dedicated theater room build. 

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Last edited by Reefdvr27; 07-23-2014 at 10:37 AM.
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post #1164 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 08:23 PM
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Who can forget when he got a pair of Tekton speakers for nothing because they were to be used for an upcoming film project or something and ran interference for Eric Alexander for months.

It wasn't that long ago there was this guy who ran a somewhat popular audio business, now defunct. He would always compare the products he sold to those he said he owned but as it turned out, he didn't own any of the stuff he said he had. That said, I'm sure it's a nice product. Does anyone know if the units have serial numbers?
I own a set of tekton enzo's and love them.
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post #1165 of 1211 Old 07-22-2014, 10:47 PM
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I'll wait for reviews from owners and professional reviewers who are impartial and have no connection to Emotiva either by employment or forum ties.

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Wise decision Bill.

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post #1166 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 03:55 AM
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When you say "I know them well enough", do you mean in person, or via the Lounge forums?
Like technically?
I've met each in person, listened to live demo's with them, compared thoughts on what we've heard, have had many conversations about a/v and other topics with them, and have 3 of 4's phone #'s in my contacts list. So...yes...I know them well enough to be able to trust what they say.
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post #1167 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 03:57 AM
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I'll wait for reviews from owners and professional reviewers who are impartial and have no connection to Emotiva either by employment or forum ties.

Bill
. Given the length of the waiting list, you will have to wait anyway.
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post #1168 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 04:50 AM
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I've met each in person, listened to live demo's with them, compared thoughts on what we've heard, have had many conversations about a/v and other topics with them, and have 3 of 4's phone #'s in my contacts list. So...yes...I know them well enough to be able to trust what they say.

I'm sure this is true but that group as a whole is very pro Emotiva. Their thoughts on the XMC-1 would be very favorable even if there were issues IMO. I might not know these individuals on a personal level but I have followed their postings on the Lounge for many years. By doing so I can easily see their bias towards Emotiva components.

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Given the length of the waiting list, you will have to wait anyway.

I have been on the wait list since the XMC-1 was announced originally. It is interesting that I haven't received an email .


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #1169 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 05:34 AM
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CNBC runs a program called American Greed that talks about how people have had their trust manipulated.

Would the people one trusts at Emotiva have told a prospective purchaser of the UMC-1 how as a whole how buggy they were? Or that they screwed up the bass management as Markus so ably illustrated? For those who bought their speakers and perhaps were looking to flesh out their purchase a bit later that once they sold off the last one that was it? Sorry Charlie. What abou their subs which were developing problems and would be shortly discontinued never to be seen again.

No one who works for any company is going to tell you about the warts and give you a heads up. If they do they won't be working there very long and likely will be demonized.
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"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #1170 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 10:00 AM
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I own a set of tekton enzo's and love them.
I like popsicles.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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