Emotiva XMC-1 coming soon (please limit posts to technical issues) - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
and the bass management issue with 2 subs - these require answers and solutions before I part with $2k. If it was only $1200 it might be easier to take a plunge.
I hesitate to call the bass mgmt situation an "issue". First, they made a decision on how to implement it. It is not a bug or an issue...it is how they chose to implement it. and it appears to work as intended. Second, Lonnie today posted that it is something they can change and intend to via a FW update. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

And yes...I know your answer to that and the answer of many others will be " I don't trust them to...I will have to wait and see if they do". Well, let's get real...you will be waiting anyway unless you are on the waiting list already. I suspect you are not. So...just wait and see with the rest of us.

And by the way, hemster has confirmed they already adjusted the FW to improve the menu system, and the process was a breeze. So, that monkey on the back of the UMC-1 and -200 has been slain. Net, one less thing for people to compain about or speculate about being wrong.

For those of you saying Andrew didn't handle his ethics statement perfectly...I suspect that if any of you ghost-wrote anything for him on the topic, you would still complain he did it wrong. How about giving the guy a little credit for trying? I guess he's not perfect but some of you are.
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post #1172 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 04:18 PM
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How about giving the guy a little credit for trying?
Trying what? Never ever mentioning in his review that he works for Emotiva?

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post #1173 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by carfanm View Post
I hesitate to call the bass mgmt situation an "issue". First, they made a decision on how to implement it. It is not a bug or an issue...it is how they chose to implement it. and it appears to work as intended. Second, Lonnie today posted that it is something they can change and intend to via a FW update. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

And yes...I know your answer to that and the answer of many others will be " I don't trust them to...I will have to wait and see if they do". Well, let's get real...you will be waiting anyway unless you are on the waiting list already. I suspect you are not. So...just wait and see with the rest of us.

And by the way, hemster has confirmed they already adjusted the FW to improve the menu system, and the process was a breeze. So, that monkey on the back of the UMC-1 and -200 has been slain. Net, one less thing for people to compain about or speculate about being wrong.

For those of you saying Andrew didn't handle his ethics statement perfectly...I suspect that if any of you ghost-wrote anything for him on the topic, you would still complain he did it wrong. How about giving the guy a little credit for trying? I guess he's not perfect but some of you are.
It's helpful to be a little more respectful of others on this forum and less defensive as we are not the enemy but enthusiasts like yourself.

I respect your opinion, apologized if my post offended you and stated my thoughts. I along with others hope it is delivered as promised, but until it is you can't bet your xxx I am staying on the sideline. Past performance is usually indicative of future performance - at least based on my observations
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post #1174 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 04:24 PM
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Trying what? Never ever mentioning in his review that he works for Emotiva?
What I was referring to is his ethics statement on his site. Many here acknowledged he posted it, but pretty much every one who did picked it apart. That is what I am referring to...he deserves credit for trying. And in that, he fully discloses his relationship with Emotiva. Seems many don't like how he did it.
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post #1175 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 04:35 PM
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What I was referring to is his ethics statement on his site.
Anyone linking to his XMC-1 review will bypass his "ethics statement" entirely, since it is on a completely different page. Rather than creating a separate web page and filling it up with an epic tome on ethics, he need only insert a one-sentence disclaimer in his review. Which he won't do. So much for ethics.

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post #1176 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by carfanm View Post
What I was referring to is his ethics statement on his site. Many here acknowledged he posted it, but pretty much every one who did picked it apart. That is what I am referring to...he deserves credit for trying. And in that, he fully discloses his relationship with Emotiva. Seems many don't like how he did it.
No offense carfanm but as much as you seem tired of members here "picking apart" Emotiva it also gets tiring seeing you constantly defending them. It doesn't matter if AR posted an ethics discalimer on his site it is of no use unless he mentions the fact he works for Emotiva in the body of the XMC-1 review. This issue has been pointed out numerous times but you just seem to ignore it.

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post #1177 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 06:23 PM
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No offense carfanm but as much as you seem tired of members here "picking apart" Emotiva it also gets tiring seeing you constantly defending them. It doesn't matter if AR posted an ethics discalimer on his site it is of no use unless he mentions the fact he works for Emotiva in the body of the XMC-1 review. This issue has been pointed out numerous times but you just seem to ignore it.

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Bill and others who tire of me "defending" Emotiva,


Many of you seem to be very quick to jump on Emotiva NO MATTER WHAT they do. The evidence is abundant - so those doing it...don't deny it. If the purpose of this thread and this forum is to nit-pick Emotiva to death and give them no credit for any good they do, then you and others are succeeding except for the rare posts by me and other who provide a COUNTERPOINT to the constant negativity and doubt. So, if you are tired of me providing a counterpoint, sorry. I am merely providing some balance to the points of those picking apart Emotiva and all related to them.


Let me provide a few other counterpoints based in facts. If you don't like it...then don't read it. Many here and many who were banned from Emotiva's Lounge had and still have an agenda against Emotiva. Let me point out a few things those with a clear agenda against Emotiva (including a few here who were banned from the Lounge "for no reason") have said and let's compare that to the facts. Specifically, many naysayers have said:
1) The XMC is so late and given we've not heard anything since (insert date here) it's will never launch & they have abandoned it. Wrong. First, the original version did under a different brand name well before people were saying this (and they were given no credit by naysayers for this). Second, the revised version has now launched.
2) If it does launch still, it will be months from now (statements as recent as late June/early July) because they clearly missed the AMJ promise. Wrong...it launched in July.
3) When it does launch, it will be a debacle like the UMC-1 because Emotiva doesn't know how to make a processor. Wrong...all early reports are that it's fine. The very FIRST UMC-1 launch showed it was a debacle, and that was a report from a mod.
4) The FW update process will be a pain, like the UMC's. Wrong...early confirmation is that is was a breeze.
5) The XMC-1 is irrelevant because it doesn't have Atmos (at this point an uproven feature in the market). While this is debatable for those SPECULATING that Atmos is essential, I argue it's wrong...the XMC-1 appears to allow one to have a very high quality multichannel processor with a fantastic PEQ (and hopefully DIRAC soon) COMBINED with an amazing 2-channel system...allowing those with a combined 2-channel system to have a combined system w/o needing a processor, a preamp, and a DAC (and avoiding lots of complicated wiring). That is indeed a relevant aspect to many.


I could go on with that line of thinking, but you get the point. And sure, you and others can continue to speculate on "this or that will never happen" (like Atmos or DIRAC or other "promised" updates...but above are 5 points many have bet against and LOST. We'll see what the remaining aspects bring.)


Further, as I noted in my last post about Andrew's ethics statement, people are complaining that he didn't do it right with his ethics statement. And, what's the first reaction? That he didn't do it right. I guess they didn't get my point...he is publicly admitting he works for Emotiva, yet people are nitpicking him for not doing it perfectly. Can't we at least provide a little credit there?


All I can say is that I do not understand why many here choose to find the negative in anything Emotiva does and call anyone here who counters that point of view a fanboy. I can only hope that your life is not filled with those who treat you the way you treat Emotiva. That would be a miserable life.


Sorry to any mods if I have stepped over the line. Delete this post if you must, but also please delete the posts from those who led to me posting this.


I promise to stay on topic with technical details from here on.
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post #1178 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 06:56 PM
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1) The XMC is so late and given we've not heard anything since (insert date here) it's will never launch & they have abandoned it. Wrong. First, the original version did under a different brand name well before people were saying this (and they were given no credit by naysayers for this).
I'm not going to bother quoting your whole post. But to say the original version of XMC-1 was released as a Sherbourn prepro is really grasping at straws IMO. So in your opinion Emotiva should be praised for releasing a Sherbourn prepro that in your opinion is the original XMC-1? C'mon man that really is too much.

I'm going to vote with my wallet and if the XMC-1 with Dirac is all that it is supposed to be then I'll be buying one. How's that for negativity and being a naysayer?

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post #1179 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 07:16 PM
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I guess they didn't get my point...he is publicly admitting he works for Emotiva, yet people are nitpicking him for not doing it perfectly.
I guess you didn't get their point: his disclaimer is on a completely separate page from his review. Do you understand that someone reading his review would never have any indication that he works for Emotiva? When he says he knows Dan Laufman, he makes zero mention that Dan signs his paychecks.
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Can't we at least provide a little credit there?
You make it sound like he did something heroic. Is honesty really such a difficult task in your world?

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post #1180 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 07:45 PM
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Bill and others who tire of me "defending" Emotiva,


Many of you seem to be very quick to jump on Emotiva NO MATTER WHAT they do. The evidence is abundant - so those doing it...don't deny it. If the purpose of this thread and this forum is to nit-pick Emotiva to death and give them no credit for any good they do, then you and others are succeeding except for the rare posts by me and other who provide a COUNTERPOINT to the constant negativity and doubt. So, if you are tired of me providing a counterpoint, sorry. I am merely providing some balance to the points of those picking apart Emotiva and all related to them.


Let me provide a few other counterpoints based in facts. If you don't like it...then don't read it. Many here and many who were banned from Emotiva's Lounge had and still have an agenda against Emotiva. Let me point out a few things those with a clear agenda against Emotiva (including a few here who were banned from the Lounge "for no reason") have said and let's compare that to the facts. Specifically, many naysayers have said:
1) The XMC is so late and given we've not heard anything since (insert date here) it's will never launch & they have abandoned it. Wrong. First, the original version did under a different brand name well before people were saying this (and they were given no credit by naysayers for this). Second, the revised version has now launched.
2) If it does launch still, it will be months from now (statements as recent as late June/early July) because they clearly missed the AMJ promise. Wrong...it launched in July.
3) When it does launch, it will be a debacle like the UMC-1 because Emotiva doesn't know how to make a processor. Wrong...all early reports are that it's fine. The very FIRST UMC-1 launch showed it was a debacle, and that was a report from a mod.
4) The FW update process will be a pain, like the UMC's. Wrong...early confirmation is that is was a breeze.
5) The XMC-1 is irrelevant because it doesn't have Atmos (at this point an uproven feature in the market). While this is debatable for those SPECULATING that Atmos is essential, I argue it's wrong...the XMC-1 appears to allow one to have a very high quality multichannel processor with a fantastic PEQ (and hopefully DIRAC soon) COMBINED with an amazing 2-channel system...allowing those with a combined 2-channel system to have a combined system w/o needing a processor, a preamp, and a DAC (and avoiding lots of complicated wiring). That is indeed a relevant aspect to many.


I could go on with that line of thinking, but you get the point. And sure, you and others can continue to speculate on "this or that will never happen" (like Atmos or DIRAC or other "promised" updates...but above are 5 points many have bet against and LOST. We'll see what the remaining aspects bring.)


Further, as I noted in my last post about Andrew's ethics statement, people are complaining that he didn't do it right with his ethics statement. And, what's the first reaction? That he didn't do it right. I guess they didn't get my point...he is publicly admitting he works for Emotiva, yet people are nitpicking him for not doing it perfectly. Can't we at least provide a little credit there?


All I can say is that I do not understand why many here choose to find the negative in anything Emotiva does and call anyone here who counters that point of view a fanboy. I can only hope that your life is not filled with those who treat you the way you treat Emotiva. That would be a miserable life.


Sorry to any mods if I have stepped over the line. Delete this post if you must, but also please delete the posts from those who led to me posting this.


I promise to stay on topic with technical details from here on.
I appreciate your POV and support your right to voice your thoughts.

WRT your points...

1) Just what version of the XMC launched under a different product name? Version 1 as I see it was supposed to be the TacT based one. In defense of Emotiva, in retrospect I saw that as them being hosed and probably costing them money not to mention valuable time.

2) What you were reading is the mass frustration of people and even though folks have received units they still are not fully functional. So is it a launch? Kinda. Sorta.

3) there were processors before the UMC-1 that were less than stellar. Since we don't have a FULLY functional product, it remains to be seen if this will ultimately be a debacle. I suspect it won't be.

4) it's a bit early to say FW update problems are a thing of the past based on what appears to be a rather trivial changes to the display. Encouraging, yes. Happy days are here again? Let's see what happens when Dirac is online and people discover quirks.

5) I largely agree.

As for Andw Robinson, I see the creation of a new website as a calculated move driven in part by his association wupith Emotiva. As to his review, he could simply have added two sentences at the end where he spoke in the third person. Like this.

Andrew Robinson is employed by Emotiva as Director of whatever. Further information can be found at whatever link. Simple, no?
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post #1181 of 1211 Old 07-23-2014, 11:01 PM
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I wonder with receivers now coming out with Atmos if EMotiva will announce a newer pre/pro or if it will be addressed via firmware.

I'm way behind, why did they ditch TacT?
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post #1182 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 12:04 AM
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I wonder with receivers now coming out with Atmos if EMotiva will announce a newer pre/pro or if it will be addressed via firmware.
From what they posted at their forum, they were one of the earliest licensees of Atmos. Make of that what you will.

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post #1183 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 12:42 AM
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I'm way behind, why did they ditch TacT?
Business/relation between Emotiva and TacT didn't go according to plans.
- ...And the same with Bob Carver.

And in my honest opinion it was for the better.

Now, Dirac, the story is not over yet... ...And Dolby Atmos, just forget it. ...And HDMI v.2.0, and ...

* I like my Emo amps, I like a good solid/sounding surround sound processor (mine is an Integra one, their latest flagship one - XT32, the next most likely a Dolby Atmos equipped one; Marantz a good chance).

<<>> I have been hearing about the XMC-1 for eight years, so naturally I'm curious at what has just been released, now, and incomplete.

P.S. The review by Andrew: Ok, but write @ the bottom that you work for Emotiva. ...Or @ the top.

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post #1184 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 03:43 AM
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I appreciate your POV and support your right to voice your thoughts.

WRT your points...

1) Just what version of the XMC launched under a different product name? Version 1 as I see it was supposed to be the TacT based one. In defense of Emotiva, in retrospect I saw that as them being hosed and probably costing them money not to mention valuable time.
Thanks. And per a prior answer from me to this same question, the original XMC was not going to have TacT. That was a later version. The Sherbourn 7020 and 7030 are the ones I was referring to. Each has aspects of the original definition, but as folks know...they declared that they couldn't get the results they wanted out of Cirrus and declared that platform out for the XMC and jumped to their modular TI platform. I believe that has been an excellent move and will pay off for them with the XMC and derivatives.

And I agree...I think they got hosed by Dr. Boz. I can tell you from meeting him that he clearly had no vested interest in a true working "relationship" with Emotiva.
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post #1185 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 03:54 AM
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. You make it sound like he did something heroic. Is honesty really such a difficult task in your world?
Clearly you did not get my point. I didn't make him out to be heroic. I said he deserved a "little" credit. That is not a hero material statement. People complained he didn't acknowledge he works for Emotiva, so he put it on his website in his ethics statement. You and others don't like that he didn't put it within the review. Personally, I also think he should,but I am not going to hose the guy for making an attempt to disclose what people wanted him to disclose but just doing it in a non-optimal place. Hopefully, in future reviews he will put the one-liner in each review. By the way, for those complaining about what he didn't do, each of you knows he works for Emotiva, so you are not losing anything yourself by his failure.

Further, if you have seen his apology video for his statements on Atmos, you will see his sincerity and a fair amount of integrity. And in full disclosure, when I first met the guy, I genuinely didn't like him. I thought he was a pompous jerk. So, I am no Andrew Robinson fanboy. But he is beginning to win me over and I can now see his value.
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Why don't they simply use Audyssey? Too expensive?
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By the way, for those complaining about what he didn't do,
each of you knows he works for Emotiva, so you are not losing anything yourself by his failure.
Here's the thing: We do know, but most people don't know.
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post #1188 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 05:05 AM
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Why don't they simply use Audyssey? Too expensive?
Only Emotiva can answer that question with exact certitude.

Perhaps it is because of financial cost; royalties. ...Or they saw the flaws in Audyssey?
...Or too much processing power needed, in top of their sophisticated PEQ. ...More DSP chips, more money.
And they like Cirrus Logic, and the implementation of Audyssey is harder? ...

* TacT was kind of a deal for them when it was first talked about around the table, but it fell apart eventually.
Then came Dirac, and Dirac is software implemented, and they are still working on it ...

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post #1189 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 05:07 AM
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Why don't they simply use Audyssey? Too expensive?
implementing audyssey would be too easy of a solution for them. emotiva doesn't like easy when it comes to their processors.
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post #1190 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 05:23 AM
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No, and they don't make it easier for their customers either.

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post #1191 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 06:00 AM
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It seems the XMC-1 is arriving ... http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...-arrived-today
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post #1192 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 06:02 AM
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Here's oNe way to look at the AR ethics thing. Would your wife feel more comfortable with you going to Vegas for several days on a business trip with you wedding ring on your finger or with the ring in your wallet?

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post #1193 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 06:09 AM
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Last edited by NorthSky; 07-24-2014 at 06:15 AM.
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post #1194 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 09:32 AM
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I guess they didn't get my point...
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Clearly you did not get my point.
You keep repeating that, asthough the only reason anyone would disagree with your point is they just don't 'get it'. A disclaimer is useless if it is not seen. And he's arranged for exactly that. Get it?
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Further, if you have seen his apology video for his statements on Atmos, you will see his sincerity and a fair amount of integrity.
I know Andrew, hence the disappointment.

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post #1195 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 10:28 AM
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Andrew's ethics statement, and his post on the Emo forum about it, are like the actions of a sulking child. He went over the top with it, then tried to lay a guilt trip on everyone pointing out basic journalistic ethics to him, just so everyone would forgive him and feel sorry for hurting his feelings. All he needs is a one line statement in his reviews about his relationship with Emotiva. That is important, because if someone were to come across his review from say a google search they'd have no idea they need to go read his ethics statement to find out about his relationship with Emotiva.

I see tech journalists all the time disclose if they even own just a little bit of stock in a company when they start to talk about it. It's just the standard thing to do. Frankly I think if you work for an A/V company and post on A/V forums you should disclose that too, particularly if you are commenting on anything related to what your company does.

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post #1196 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 10:32 AM
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All he needs is a one line statement in his reviews about his relationship with Emotiva.
Exactly. One line. Hardly unreasonable. Instead we got an entire page of hand waving.

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post #1197 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 10:52 AM
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It is a shame it won't work for me because it is a sexy piece.

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post #1198 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 11:11 AM
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AR is also on twitter as @AndrewRobinsonOnline

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House

Last edited by Chu Gai; 07-24-2014 at 01:17 PM.
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post #1199 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 12:56 PM
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Why don't they simply use Audyssey? Too expensive?
Could be, but I think that Dirac also sets them apart from the rest of the crowd in this price range. I think that there are a lot of people who are at least interested to see how the xmc-1 performs if not interested in buying one. This may not have been the case if it just had Audyssey. I know that I'm holding on to my upgrade card until the reviews come out.
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post #1200 of 1211 Old 07-24-2014, 03:05 PM
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Here's the thing: We do know, but most people don't know.

When he first started showing up on the Lounge, I didn't know who the heck was this guy, the name did sounded familiar thou, and I believe I have read his articles in the pass but with most things, I just didn't care much who he was to ponder on it.


Just recently I realized he has his blog, website, I assumed it was a hobby type thing. Like many here, who take this way too serious
So my point is, I'm sure there are plenty of other folks such as me who aren't making the connection.

My two cents

Dan


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