Onkyo 5010 or 5509+5501 ?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 10-21-2012, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

I recently had the misfortune of blowing up my amp.. (or fortune because I now get to upgrade without having to explain to she who must be obeyed!)

I blew up a Sony 5200ES amp at a party running at 0db with A+B 4ohm speaker load....

Anyway I have so many options to consider since it's been quite a while since I upgraded and a lot of "New" surround pre/pro and standards are just coming out.

First I guess I should start with a description of my current gear so you know where Im coming from.

I have the dead sony 5200es obviously.. (before anyone asks, I changed the blown fuse and removed all speakers and its still going into protect)
6 x Sony SSX-70ED main and surround - all full range 40hz-70khz @ 4ohms 89db sens 150W RMS
1 x Sony SSX-CN70ED center full range 50hz-70khz @ 4ohms 89db sens 120W RMS
2 x Velodyne CT-100 10" subs 28-120hz 100W nom to 250W RMS output

Currently setup in a smallish narrow room using conventional 7.2 (dual mono subs with 5.1 surround and back surround)

Im unlikely to get anywhere near 11.4 until I move to a bigger house but I have an extra 5 sony SS-T70ES speakers I could use to do 9.2 (from my old system)

So the questions I have in mind are...

1. Has anyone compared the Audyssey DSX surround modes to have an opinion on what sounds best for 9.2 as there are several modes available.
a) surround back w/ wide front
b) surround back w/ high front
c) wide front w/ high front

I could technically move the back surround to wide front keeping full range matched at the front and use the smaller T70ES speakers for surround back or front height.

BTW these 70ED speakers sound better than anything I've heard up to about 6k a pair. very neutral which is how I like it. So im not planning on replacing them for a few more years yet. Might add a dedicated pair of fronts a bit sooner for critical listening as the bug has bitten again!

Anyway...

2. for a really short run from AVR to AMP will balanced XLR result in that much better sound compared to RCA especially since Onkyo is not "fully" balanced signal chain in the 5509/5501???

I plan to add a pair of emotiva XPR-5 amps in the future which is why Im asking this question now. I would be happy with a 5509/5501 combo for now but the 5010 would also probably do me for now and it has the benefit of 11.4 and some other improvements but no balanced outputs.
Ultimately what I really want is a 5510 which doesnt currently exist and I cant wait more than a few weeks. (paired with 2 x Emotiva XPR-5s)

SO...
Given the above,

3. Is 11.4 going to be much of an improvement on 9.2 and should I future proof now with an Onkyo 5010 and just use RCA outputs for an external Emotiva XPR-5 when I get one or maybe a pair? I love the idea of going 11.4 in a couple years when I upgrade my house! But I normally keep my gear for 7+ years between upgrades.

I havent been a critical music listener for quite a few years but I have now gotten the bug again so I'll also be adding an Oppo 95 for source material as I have a pretty extensive collection of SACD, DVD-A and some old vinyl I pull out now and again also.

4. My speakers are a bit of a difficult load and I do like to have a fair bit of volume for bluray rock concerts in DTS-MA and the occasional loud movie... Will the Onkyo amps, whether they be 5501/5010, be able to cope? (seems my sony 5200ES was right on the limit as it always ran extremely HOT even at moderate levels)


Cheers and thanks for any input.
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post #2 of 8 Old 10-22-2012, 01:58 AM
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Using XLR on a short run will yield the same results as RCA. I have done both many times using different components and it has never made a difference. As for using the 5010 straight up as a pre-pro you could also get away using a 3010. Especially since you are planning two AMPs. If you go the 5010 route I would only use one amp and let the 5010 handle the surrounds and rears. Just my two cents...smile.gif

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post #3 of 8 Old 10-22-2012, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Using XLR on a short run will yield the same results as RCA. I have done both many times using different components and it has never made a difference. As for using the 5010 straight up as a pre-pro you could also get away using a 3010. Especially since you are planning two AMPs. If you go the 5010 route I would only use one amp and let the 5010 handle the surrounds and rears. Just my two cents...smile.gif

Thanks thats exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for... It looks like the only difference between 5010 vs 3010 is the power rating, 32bit DACs and binding posts are better on 5010. For the few hundred more do you think they compromised anywhere else on the 3010? Im guessing the powersupply is smaller at least which explains the lower power rating.

Do you know if XT32 pro installer is available on the 3010 or just 5010?

Im still leaning towards the 5010 anyway. Hopefully they've sorted the QC or design issues with the HDMI boards between the 5508/09 and 5010.

5010 with XPR-5 would make a nice system for sure.. also option to power the low front 5 with XPR-5 and everything else with 5010 or even bi-wire the main fronts + center with XPR-5 and everything else with 5010 until I get another XPR-5.

I love having full range matched 7.2 speakers and would love to have external AMPS for these main channels for DVD-A and SACD... oh the decisions....
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post #4 of 8 Old 10-22-2012, 07:32 AM
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Is there really an audible difference between the 5010 or 3010 if doing the comparison blindfolded ?
I doubt it.
Thus the 3010 is - at least for me - the better buy, because power per channel is (almost) identical, XT32 is implemented on both systems and both are Audyssey Pro ready.
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post #5 of 8 Old 10-22-2012, 07:49 AM
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Hi,

I'm also hesitating of what to buy.

I have a Klipsch THX Ultra2 system and don't really know wich combination would be best:

- Onkyo PR-SC 5507/ PA-MC5500 or
- Onkyo TX-NR5010


I'm not using the video processing of the amp as I have the OPPO 93. The video signal will go strait to the projector.

Would there be a disadvantage of using the receiver instead of the pre amp/amp?

Regards
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post #6 of 8 Old 10-22-2012, 08:42 AM
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The 5010 and 3010 are identical in size and weight - 55.1 pounds each. Onkyo didn't bother to build a different amp section for each AVR. The 1010 also has MultEQ XT32 and a pretty stout amp section - it weighs 50 pounds.

When all else fails - RTFM!

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GO SEAHAWKS!!!
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post #7 of 8 Old 10-22-2012, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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My biggest concern now is if the Onkyo amps can handle my 4ohm load 89db speakers at a volume I like to listen to.. Its a fairly difficult load at high volume even in 2 channel, little lone multi-channel.
I have seen reports of people pushing the 5501 and 5009 to shutdown just with movies on low impedance and low efficiency speakers..

Anyone with experience driving 4ohm and less than 90db sensitivity speakers with a recent Onkyo AVR or AMP???

I know I will be adding an external amp at some point, but I would hate to have to send a new unit off for warranty because it cant handle a tough load before I get around to adding the AMP.
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post #8 of 8 Old 10-22-2012, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Also just discovered the digital crossover allows true bi-amping with the onboard crossover able to direct frequencies to specific drivers in a bi-amp configuration... WOW!


My speakers have bi-amp terminals with each drivers crossover on its own dedicated board so it would be really simple to bypass the built in cross overs and run true bi-amp with digital crossover done in the Onkyo. smile.gif

Inside the SS-X70ED
http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=24823&forum=65&start=0&select_page_number=1

Has anyone tried this digital cross over feature with bi-amp or bi-wire configurations?

From 818 instructions.
Digital Crossover provides a separate routing system by splitting the audio signal into separate frequency bands optimized for each speaker driver. It provides a fine, three- dimensional sound field that extend each driver's performance to the uppermost.

With its built-in time alignment function, this system also adjusts the sound shifting that occurs when there is a physical offset between sound drivers. At a digital processing level, it corrects this offset by delaying the related audio signal.

Although this function is meant for speakers without crossover network, it can also be used with bi-amped speakers.

In this case, set the crossover network on the AV receiver as the speakers' built-in network frequency is not used.

Crossover
250Hz, 320Hz, 400Hz, 500Hz, 630Hz, 800Hz, 1000Hz, 1250Hz, 1600Hz, 2000Hz, 2500Hz, 3200Hz, 4000Hz, 5000Hz

Output Band for Test
High + Low, High, Low:
Select the output for the audio signal.

Overlap
No
Yes

With this setting, a frequency band near the specified crossover frequency is output by both tweeters and woofers. Based on the frequency selected for Crossover, the cutoff frequency of the low-pass filter (LPF) will be set to 1/3 octave up and that of the high-pass filter (HPF) to 1/3 octave down. Example: With a Crossover of 3200Hz, the cutoff frequency of the woofers' LPF will be 4000Hz, and the tweeters' HPF will be 2500Hz.

High Level, Low Level
-6.0dB to 0.0dB to +6.0dB in 0.5 dB steps

With this setting, you can set the volume of tweeters and woofers.

High Phase, Low Phase
0o
180o:

With this setting, you can adjust the phase of tweeters and woofers.

High Distance, Low Distance
0inch(0.0cm) to 12inch(30.0cm) in 1 inch(2.5 cm)
Audio Adjust
Note
steps
With this setting, you can adjust the virtual position of tweeter and woofer units.
Adjusting High Distance virtually shifts woofers behind tweeters. Adjusting Low Distance virtually shifts tweeters behind woofers.
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