Replacing Onkyo HT-R530 from htib. looking at Onkyo tx-nr515/616/717. - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 10-23-2012, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tshrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I am looking to upgrade an Onkyo ht-r530 from a htib setup. Receiver works and sounds great, but would like to upgrade for HDMI and sound.

What I need:

Sound quality
Up conversion for older Xbox 360 and wii
On screen display
MHL
5.1 is enough
Android app control
Need to be able to use Logitech remote to switch between devices.
3D
HDMI pass with receiver off
Would like 4k for future proofing

I was wanting to know if the sound quality will be any better on the receivers listed over my current receiver, and if there is a big difference in the models I listed. Was leaning toward the tx-nr616 for $50 more than the 515. Will there be any sound quality upgrade if I spent an extra $200 for the 717 over the 616?

Thanks in advance for any help.
tshrimp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 10-24-2012, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tshrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Any suggestions?

I went to the store and looked at several models, and still leaning toward the Onkyo's.

Is the TX-NR717 much of an upgrade over the TX-NR616 (specs of THD seem better on the 717), and what would be a comparable receiver from Yamaha?

Thanks
tshrimp is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 10-24-2012, 05:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Knucklehead90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: State of Confusion - 98823
Posts: 7,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 112
If you buy the latest and greatest AVR with gobs of bells and whistles and craploads of power it won't sound much different than your current AVR sounds. Why? Your speakers. A new AVR will give you functions you don't currently have but you'll have the same audio quality if you keep those speakers. A new AVR will sound very much like the old AVR with the HTIB speakers.

When all else fails - RTFM!

♫♫♫ Two Channel Rules! ♫♫♫

GO SEAHAWKS!!!
Knucklehead90 is offline  
post #4 of 11 Old 10-24-2012, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tshrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

If you buy the latest and greatest AVR with gobs of bells and whistles and craploads of power it won't sound much different than your current AVR sounds. Why? Your speakers. A new AVR will give you functions you don't currently have but you'll have the same audio quality if you keep those speakers. A new AVR will sound very much like the old AVR with the HTIB speakers.

I understand what you are saying, but my Onkyo htib speakers actually sound better than my polks connected to my Yamaha, and are sold as individual speakers with very good ratings.

I also just found a good deal on a Denon avs1913. Is this as good as the Onkyo tx-nr616? I have never been a big Denton fan, but would consider. I see where the avs2113 is more on par with the 616.

One reason I am looking to upgrade is for HDMI. I currently can only use my receiver for audio only.
tshrimp is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 10-25-2012, 05:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
Patrick Murphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post

I understand what you are saying, but my Onkyo htib speakers actually sound better than my polks connected to my Yamaha, and are sold as individual speakers with very good ratings.
I also just found a good deal on a Denon avs1913. Is this as good as the Onkyo tx-nr616? I have never been a big Denton fan, but would consider. I see where the avs2113 is more on par with the 616.
One reason I am looking to upgrade is for HDMI. I currently can only use my receiver for audio only.

The Onkyo 515/616 receivers have been problematic since their introduction and have many unhappy owners. Just search AVS and the Onkyo support forums for verification.

Just looking at the specs for the two Denon receivers, the feature that jumps out at me is the level in the Audyssey room correction they offer. The 1913 has MultEQ, the 2113, MultEQ XT. The Onkyo 515/616/717 only have the rudimentary 2EQ which, in my opinion, is useless as it does nothing to correct the sub and little on the sats.

Here's a link that explains them;
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq#multeq-solutions

I don't believe that the r530 receiver has any Audyssey version so getting either of the two Denon's would certainly help your current setup.. Don't waste your money on 2EQ.
Patrick Murphy is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 10-25-2012, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tshrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

The Onkyo 515/616 receivers have been problematic since their introduction and have many unhappy owners. Just search AVS and the Onkyo support forums for verification.
Just looking at the specs for the two Denon receivers, the feature that jumps out at me is the level in the Audyssey room correction they offer. The 1913 has MultEQ, the 2113, MultEQ XT. The Onkyo 515/616/717 only have the rudimentary 2EQ which, in my opinion, is useless as it does nothing to correct the sub and little on the sats.
Here's a link that explains them;
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq#multeq-solutions
I don't believe that the r530 receiver has any Audyssey version so getting either of the two Denon's would certainly help your current setup.. Don't waste your money on 2EQ.

Thanks so much for the reply. I have a question about the Audyssey. My brother has it on his Onkyo (not sure what version) and it made things sound worse. He ended up disabling it and doing things by hand and it sounds much better now (was there when he set everything up). My Yamaha has YPAO (I think that is what it is called). It was the same. Sounded bad after I ran it, and I had to tweak the heck out of it. So not sure I am sold on the automated EQ stuff.

On reason I am worried about the Denon over the Onkyo is 2 fold. A friend of mine had an Onkyo 606 (HDMI went out) and "upgraded" to a higher end Denon which he loves. But he did say to me that the only thing he liked better about the Onkyo was the sound quality. That has me worried a little as I want great sound quality.

One other thing I noticed is receiver weight. The Denon is about 5 lbs lighter than the Onkyo. I am not a pro, but every receiver I have purchased that has been on the light side has ended up back at the store. Will the matter here?

Also the reviews on the TX-NR616 are outstanding from professional testers. I know the online reviews have showed some issue, but a recent Firmware update shows to have fixed the issues.

The Denon also has fewer features than the Onkyo (such as MHL) which I might use in the future.


To summarize:

1) Is Audyssey difference really big enough to be a deal breaker since no automated EQ has ever worked well for me? (has there been any test with one receiver setting up with low end or no Audyssey and one with Higher end Audyssey and unknown testers pick best sound?) Concerned about the placebo effect.
2) If TX-NR616 Firmware update has fixed the issues would it be a higher end receiver?
3) Are the extra features worth the sacrifice? (In other words if the Denon is better is it enough better to give up the features?)
4) What would I be getting with the Denon over the Onkyo other than upgraded Audyssey?
5) Is the Weight difference telling a story?

Thanks for the help. Sale on both are Ending tomorrow, and I hate being in a rush frown.gif (maybe they will be extended)
tshrimp is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 10-25-2012, 09:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 23,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
I understand what you are saying, but my Onkyo htib speakers actually sound better than my polks connected to my Yamaha, and are sold as individual speakers with very good ratings.

If you have the HTR-530 receiver that means you have the HT-S780 system. Those HTIB speakers aren't that good even if sold seperately. Onkyo is not a speaker company, not their specialty. If you like them fine but better speakers would make a more significant difference than a new receiver. I've got a friend with those same speakers and I'm not impressed.

Audyssey MultEQ or MultEQ XT is far better than the 2EQ version on the NR515, 616 and 717. Funny that the 717 only has 2EQ while its predecessor the NR709 had MultEQ XT. That's a big drop.

Which receiver does you brother have and what version of Audyssey? And what Polks do you have?

A little more specifics helps when making comparisons.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 10-25-2012, 09:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Knucklehead90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: State of Confusion - 98823
Posts: 7,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Your experience with room correction isn't unusual. People tend to get used to the 'house sound'. Your house kills some frequencies and extends others - when those bumps and valleys in the sound are smoothed out it takes some time to get used to a flat frequency across the spectrum. I've run into this myself - it took some time to get used to what Audyssey does but now the only tweaks I make are to the levels of the center and sub - usually. Almost every listening space has a low frequency range that bumps the signal. My own living room bumps bass from 40-80hz with a huge peak at 60hz. Audyssey smooths that out - makes it sound much better. Those Onkyo's you are considering don't equalize the sub - a good reason for buying the Denon.

As to your asking about all the bells and whistles on the Onkyo vs the better Audyssey version on the Denon - you answered that with your desire for the best audio quality you can get. Again - the biggest jump in audio quality will be with better speakers. You may not be impressed with what Audyssey does to your system - I say give it some time then switch it off - depending on the frequency response of your listening room it may be minor or major but I'd be willing to bet you'll end up preferring with rather than without. Do some reading in the Audyssey thread - I can't find very many who prefer no Audyssey.

When all else fails - RTFM!

♫♫♫ Two Channel Rules! ♫♫♫

GO SEAHAWKS!!!
Knucklehead90 is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 10-25-2012, 10:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
Patrick Murphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Here's the link to the Onkyo Support forum;
http://onkyoproductsupport.forumotion.com/f1-welcome-to-the-onkyo-forum

You'll notice that almost every other post is about the 515/616 and problems people are having and numerous firmware updates that seem to help some people and brick other folks receivers. I'd stay well away from them. You don't see as many posts about the 717 but then again it only has the useless Audyssey 2EQ. I have the 818 and it has been trouble free, so far. It also has the latest and greatest Audyssey XT32 which for me, is a must have.

Good luck.
Patrick Murphy is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 10-25-2012, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tshrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

If you have the HTR-530 receiver that means you have the HT-S780 system. Those HTIB speakers aren't that good even if sold seperately. Onkyo is not a speaker company, not their specialty. If you like them fine but better speakers would make a more significant difference than a new receiver. I've got a friend with those same speakers and I'm not impressed.
Audyssey MultEQ or MultEQ XT is far better than the 2EQ version on the NR515, 616 and 717. Funny that the 717 only has 2EQ while its predecessor the NR709 had MultEQ XT. That's a big drop.
Which receiver does you brother have and what version of Audyssey? And what Polks do you have?
A little more specifics helps when making comparisons.

Thanks for the response. You are correct here is what I have now. http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater-systems/onkyo-ht-s780-black/4505-6740_7-31481416.html

It got great reviews when it came out, and am not sure if upgrading will get me much.

I assume Onkyo is just putting there name on the speakers they are selling, but who knows. These are similar as they no longer make mine. http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-SKS-HT540-Channel-Theater-Speaker/dp/B000GU78Z4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351181110&sr=8-1&keywords=onkyo+speakers

They do sound very good IMO. A friend of mine actually bought some Boss speakers and after listening to my setup he returned them and got the same ones I have. Cousin has Klipsh. Not sure what model, but they cost him $500 used, and my polks are RM6750.

I just noticed that the Denon doesn't even have AM radio (my talk radio and sports will be affected). I am also worried about what I call the "Honda Syndrome". This is where someone like the product no matter what the looks, quality, etc. I read here that Denon is great all over this board, and that might be true, but I am worried about the "Honda Syndrome".

Is Denon really that much better sounding then Onkyo? In a blind sound test would I notice the difference? Reviews online show very similar audio quality. With so many features missing from the Denon my fear is I am not thinking of a feature I will want to use and not have it. No worry with the Onkyo as it has everything. I know sound is king, but is the light weight Denon (20lbs) better than the Onkyo (25lbs). I know weight is not everything, but every light weight receiver I have owned was crap and sounded average at best. I did see an Onkyo tear down, and the reviewer stated how high quality the parts were.

Thanks for all your help. Hard choice. I am thinking about keeping my current setup as it sounds good, but the prices are very good right now on the two receivers.

Edit: Just found this and it compares the two receivers along with 2 others. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AhtQ0KI9vZ0PdFVMbnBRakE0TFc5X1hyV19yX1pYUlE&output=html
tshrimp is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 10-26-2012, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tshrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I want to thank everyone for their help. I ended up going with the Onkyo TX-NR616.

Reason was 2 fold:

1) Pro reviews on the web for the Onkyo were stellar. Usually same as the Denon 1913 for sound, but with more features.

2) Waited too long and the Denon went off sale and is now much more expensive.

I am concerned about the quality issues, but have an Onkyo now and it has been very good, and like to stick with a company until they give me a reason not to. If all that is keeping the TX-NR616 from being a great receiver is a Firmware update than I think I will be good. I just hope the firmware update isn't hiding a hardware issue. But for the price I am getting, and because Onkyo has always done me right I will give it a try. I hope I don't regret the Aud 2EQ, but then again I have never had much luck with those anyways.

Also did see a breakdown of the Onkyo in a video, and the reviewer commented on the quality parts compared to a Pioneer and a Denon. Pioneer worse, then Denon, (2113) then Onkyo (NR-TX616). He did give the nod to the Onkyo, but thought the Denon might have slight edge though very slight edge on sound.

Airplay is also not a factor for me even though I have a lot of apple gear (Mac, iPod). If I went this route I will get Apple TV. But for those looking for an internet tv player. Look at Roku 2. Thing is amazing. Also the new Roku stick should work with the Onkyo as it has MHL port.

Thanks again for all the help.
tshrimp is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Onkyo Tx Nr515 , Onkyo Ht R530 7 1 Channel Surround Sound Receiver
Gear in this thread - Nr515 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off