I wonder if my Denon 1613 is powerful enough to drive my system... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a couple Polk Monitor 70's as my fronts, a CS10 as my center and a couple Klipsch ks-14's as my surrounds. I have Dual Bic America F12's for my low end.

It just seems that I have to push the volume up so high to get good sound out of the receiver. I'm up to around 60 before it even starts to get loud.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #2 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I have a couple Polk Monitor 70's as my fronts, a CS10 as my center and a couple Klipsch ks-14's as my surrounds. I have Dual Bic America F12's for my low end.
It just seems that I have to push the volume up so high to get good sound out of the receiver. I'm up to around 60 before it even starts to get loud.

60 should be no problem, but did you run Audyssey auto setup? It will calibrate your speakers + sub to movie theater reference level (among other nice features).

BTW, a tip: you may change the volume reading in the Denon's menu from absolute (0-100) to relative (-80 dB - +18 dB). It's a kinda pro thing, you know! cool.giftongue.gifwink.gif
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post #3 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I ran audyessy. It keeps setting my sub level to -12. I even brought it up to -5 and ran it again and it still set it back to -12. Now with the other sub online, I'm not really sure where that number should be.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
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post #4 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 12:30 PM
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^^^

turn down the volume on your sub and re-run... -12 is indicating that it cannot trim the sub signal enough...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #5 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I ran audyessy. It keeps setting my sub level to -12. I even brought it up to -5 and ran it again and it still set it back to -12. Now with the other sub online, I'm not really sure where that number should be.

You need to turn down the Gain knob on the back side of the sub in order for Audyssey to be able to set the sub trim above the -12 dB mark.
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post #6 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I will turn it down but how far is too far? It .was only like 4 or 5

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
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post #7 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 12:42 PM
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^^^

turn it down until you get a trim that isn't -12... preferably no more than -6...

keep in mind that the control on the sub really isn't a "volume control", it's a "gain control"...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #8 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I will turn it down but how far is too far? It .was only like 4 or 5

Hard to tell, need to experiment. In my case my sub was set by Audyssey to -6 dB. I like that, coz for movies I don't touch it, but for certain music lacking in the low frequency department I can easily turn it up on the fly. smile.gif
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post #9 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I took the sub down to the second notch and finally the avr read -9. When the avr did the sound check using oddyssey, I could hardly hear the sub responding. I played parts of Terminator Salvation on bluray and I just didn't feel I was getting good bass. Should I leave it at -9 or go into the settings and change it? I changed all my speakers to small and crossed the fronts and sub over at 80 and the surrounds at 120.

Any help you guys can give would be greatly appreciated..

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
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post #10 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I took the sub down to the second notch and finally the avr read -9. When the avr did the sound check using oddyssey, I could hardly hear the sub responding. I played parts of Terminator Salvation on bluray and I just didn't feel I was getting good bass. Should I leave it at -9 or go into the settings and change it? I changed all my speakers to small and crossed the fronts and sub over at 80 and the surrounds at 120.
Any help you guys can give would be greatly appreciated..

So far, so good. Just leave it at -9 dB for the time being. 80 Hz crossover is also OK. Surrounds may also be crossed over at 80 Hz if they were reported by the AVR to be lower. Check in the menu.

BTW, do you have Audyssey DynamicEQ turned on? If not, please do and report back. You're gonna hear night and day difference provided you are listening at lower than 0 dB reference level in your room.
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post #11 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

So far, so good. Just leave it at -9 dB for the time being. 80 Hz crossover is also OK. Surrounds may also be crossed over at 80 Hz if they were reported by the AVR to be lower. Check in the menu.
BTW, do you have Audyssey DynamicEQ turned on? If not, please do and report back. You're gonna hear night and day difference provided you are listening at lower than 0 dB reference level in your room.


Audyssey did take the surrounds down to like 80 but I changed it because of something I read somewhere. I will leave it the next time and i'm going to check the dynamic eq status now.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
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post #12 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Any help you guys can give would be greatly appreciated..

Hi Prime316, don't see it mention but make sure the BIC F12's "Receiver Type" is toggle over to "Digital 5.1,61.71". Also maybe its canceling each other out since you have dual F12 setup ... try setting one F12 to Phase "0" and the other to "180".
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post #13 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Chin, will check that.


Reporting back in....


Things are sounding a lot better.....

I have a question as to whether the Cinema EQ should be on or off. It's off now.

Also, the Dynamic Volume is set to medium. Should this be at another setting?

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
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post #14 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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To correct something I said earlier...Audyssey actually took the fronts down to 40 and surrounds down to 60.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
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post #15 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:47 PM
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^^^

tuen dynamic volume off... that is compressing the dynamic range...

go ahead and set your xovers to 80hz...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #16 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:51 PM
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I have Cinema EQ turned on because all I do is use it for video. I played with Dynamic Volume a bit and really couldn't tell much difference with the setting.

You really should take the crossovers to 80 to take some of that load off the other speakers. Just manually make that change.

Once you get everything set up and make the changes, you will probably find that you can really enjoy lower volume levels that previously. I had a Harman Kardon AVR247 and ran it pretty hot with many shows because at lower volumes the dialog was very difficult to hear. I found on my Denon that even -35db or so is enjoyable for many things. I was rather surprised at that.

Lloyd
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post #17 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Thanks Chin, will check that.
Reporting back in....
Things are sounding a lot better.....
I have a question as to whether the Cinema EQ should be on or off. It's off now.
Also, the Dynamic Volume is set to medium. Should this be at another setting?

Glad to see you feeling better, indeed! smile.gif

Cinema EQ should be a kinda preference setting, just turn it ON and OFF and see which one you like. As regards Dynamic Volume, better to turn it off, it's only needed when you wanna watch a film late night without disturbing family members or neighbours. I never use it for serious music listening coz it rectifies the dynamic range which is no good. On another note I only use it for cable TV input, it really and effectively tames crazy loud commercials. It's not a global setting but can be assigned (or not) for each input.
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post #18 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help everyone. Now I only have to turn the Dynamic Volume off. People told me that Termination Salvation is a good reference Bluray but after watching parts over and over again, I real that I don't like the movie at all.......lol.

Anything good come out recently that I can use?

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
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post #19 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 02:51 PM
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I don't actually agree with turning Dynamic Volume off, but try it a bit to see if you prefer it on at say Medium or off. I like it at Medium as it makes for much better audio at lower volumes and to me it doesn't seem to do harm to louder volumes either.

Lloyd
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post #20 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 02:54 PM
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^^^

if you prefer compressed dynamic range, that's fine...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #21 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaking of Audio....is it best to leave my Bluray player in Bitstream or PCM?

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
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post #22 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 03:20 PM
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^^^

it does not matter...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #23 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm getting DTS Master Audio out of Blurays. Is that the best I can expect? I've read that it's a lossless audio format which is what I want.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
if you prefer compressed dynamic range, that's fine...

Well after over 20 years working on Navy jets, my ears may be a bit 'compressed' too!! smile.gif

My ears tell me that it sounds better, and his may too. But that's why they have those controls!

Lloyd
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post #25 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I'm getting DTS Master Audio out of Blurays. Is that the best I can expect? I've read that it's a lossless audio format which is what I want.

yup... but it does not matter whether it is unpacked in the player or the avr...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #26 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lparsons21 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
if you prefer compressed dynamic range, that's fine...

Well after over 20 years working on Navy jets, my ears may be a bit 'compressed' too!! smile.gif

My ears tell me that it sounds better, and his may too. But that's why they have those controls!

smile.gif i bet they are... heck, i've never been near a navy jet, and i know my ears sure ain't what they used to be... smile.gif

yup... didn't mean that as a shot, sorry if it came across that way... "preference" is individual, and if it sounds better to you, that's all that matters...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #27 of 36 Old 10-27-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I have a couple Polk Monitor 70's as my fronts, a CS10 as my center and a couple Klipsch ks-14's as my surrounds. I have Dual Bic America F12's for my low end.
It just seems that I have to push the volume up so high to get good sound out of the receiver. I'm up to around 60 before it even starts to get loud.

This is normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I ran audyessy. It keeps setting my sub level to -12. I even brought it up to -5 and ran it again and it still set it back to -12. Now with the other sub online, I'm not really sure where that number should be.

With dual subs you may need to lower the gain to 1-2 to get the sub trim level set closer to 0db than -12db. Note that any AVR settings are ignored by Audyssey when it's rerun.

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post #28 of 36 Old 10-28-2012, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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It ignores the other sub anyhow. I only hear one sub ping when it's running..the one plugged into the line before I split it.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
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post #29 of 36 Old 10-28-2012, 10:15 AM
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^^^

split the sub output before it goes into the sub...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #30 of 36 Old 10-28-2012, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I did split the signal with a Y cable but I don't think Audyssey will recognize a second sub on a 5.1 setup. I also noticed that when I play music...well this was off of YouTube but only one sub plays. Both fire during movies. Any idea why that would be?

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
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