Can YOU hear the difference between amplifiers?? - Page 11 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Can you hear the difference between amplifiers?
1 - Absolutely 35 22.73%
2 - Generally Yes 47 30.52%
3 - Undecided... 15 9.74%
4 - Doubtful but perhaps 30 19.48%
5 - Absolutely Not 27 17.53%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

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post #301 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 03:04 PM
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This sure is a crazy thread. Of course different amps can sound different. Maybe another question we should ask if it has not been already. What sounds better, class A , A/B, D, H, Tubes etc? I have had Adcom, Carver, Nikko, NAD, Soundcraftsmen, Kenwood and more than 1 model of some in my same setup I have now and listened to each for months at a time and I can say none of them sound alike. They all have different qualities.

By the way AMPS are Analog what do you think the make DACs for? If there is a Digital AMP I have never heard of it.

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post #302 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

Just like if an amp has the same specs it sounds the same.

Amps don't make a sound!

Cheers, Feri


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post #303 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 03:07 PM
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Who cares, stop avoiding the point. If the speakers measure the same do they sound the same? Yes or no and why?

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post #304 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gferrell View Post

This sure is a crazy thread. Of course different amps can sound different. Maybe another question we should ask if it has not been already. What sounds better, class A , A/B, D, H, Tubes etc? I have had Adcom, Carver, Nikko, NAD, Soundcraftsmen, Kenwood and more than 1 model of some in my same setup I have now and listened to each for months at a time and I can say none of them sound alike.

Did you pick the one that sounds the best yet or are you still in the course of doing the A/Bx blind testing?

Cheers, Feri


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post #305 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 03:25 PM
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I can't do Blind testing since I know which ones I insert into the chain. I have been doing this for about 4 years on and off. I am currently running 4 soundcraftsmen S800's, older class H amps and I really like them. The only thing I don't like is at low volumes an A/B like the NAD will sound better because it is running class A at low volume. But I rarely listen at that low a volume.

By the way AMPS are Analog what do you think the make DACs for? If there is a Digital AMP I have never heard of it.

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post #306 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gferrell View Post

If there is a Digital AMP I have never heard of it.

There have been at least a couple "digital" amps/receivers. Some that come to mind are the Panasonic SA-XR series, of which I have a SA-XR55, then then there is the Sony S-Master stuff. May well be other fully digital units but those are what I know off off-hand.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #307 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

There have been at least a couple "digital" amps/receivers. Some that come to mind are the Panasonic SA-XR series, of which I have a SA-XR55, then then there is the Sony S-Master stuff. May well be other fully digital units but those are what I know off off-hand.

Those are not digital amps, class D amps are not digital.

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post #308 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 03:58 PM
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They are fully digital. SPDIF goes in and remains in the digital realm until it hits the output reconstruction filter.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #309 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

They are fully digital. SPDIF goes in and remains in the digital realm until it hits the output reconstruction filter.


Your right , I stand corrected. I wonder how these sound. Here is how Sony says they do it.

The S-Master power amplifier generates a 1-bit pulse stream to switch
pairs of MOS FET power output transistors on and off. The resulting output has
more than enough wattage to drive a loudspeaker.



The output transistors act like an on/off switch for the power supply
voltage. The Low Pass Filter (LPF) converts the amplified pulses to a
smooth, continuous analog waveform.

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post #310 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mankite View Post

All Aerial system was (2) LR5's, (1) CC5, (2) SW12's, (2) LR3's. Nothing changed but the amp. Maybe there's just a simpler explanation. The Anthem is crap. I don't see why the other side gets so angry. I'm not a defender of what I own, these are my honest unbiased observations. I've owned a few pieces I didn't like and I never defended any of them. This thread has made me change my signature. smile.gif
That's odd...the anthem amp I demo'd with a all sound Faber speaker system was the best sound my ears ever heard..when we swapped out amps for another high end double the price amp..there was no comparison.. The anthem was incredible!
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post #311 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gferrell View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

They are fully digital. SPDIF goes in and remains in the digital realm until it hits the output reconstruction filter.

Your right , I stand corrected. I wonder how these sound. Here is how Sony says they do it.

"
The S-Master power amplifier generates a 1-bit pulse stream to switch
pairs of MOS FET power output transistors on and off. The resulting output has
more than enough wattage to drive a loudspeaker.

The output transistors act like an on/off switch for the power supply
voltage. The Low Pass Filter (LPF) converts the amplified pulses to a
smooth, continuous analog waveform."


None of the above quoted material necessarily makes them different from any other switchmode power amp. The above is just a slightly wordy synopsis of how Class D works.

These days Class D amp sound quality pretty much lives or dies based on how well the keep their source impedances down, especially as we get closer to the top of the audio band. To some degree the use of automated system tuning facilities (e.g. Audyssey) makes that less critical.
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post #312 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 05:18 PM
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Maybe those speakers are easier to drive then the Aerials.

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post #313 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gferrell View Post

I can't do Blind testing since I know which ones I insert into the chain. I have been doing this for about 4 years on and off. I am currently running 4 soundcraftsmen S800's, older class H amps and I really like them. The only thing I don't like is at low volumes an A/B like the NAD will sound better because it is running class A at low volume. But I rarely listen at that low a volume..

All class AB, G and H power amps run class A at low volume levels.
]
Class G & H are just class AB with more complicated power supplies to minimize output device power dissipation.
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post #314 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 05:38 PM
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Well..I guess this is a no win thread..there's two sides to everything,

There are two sides to preference, when difference has been established. There's no "right" answer as to preference.

Difference, however, is a falsifiable claim with a right and wrong answer.

One cannot even reach the question of preference without a definitive result as to difference.

If people hear differences under properly controlled circumstances, it's there. If they don't, it's not. If people "hear differences" in sighted listening with no level matching, who cares? I can hear a difference between -30 and -28 on my volume control without going to the trouble of switching amps.

If there are "two sides" there, they are simply the "correct" side and the "wrong" side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

That makes no sense as two speakers can measure the same and sound different.

Please show us an example of two speakers that measure the same (not just on-axis FR, but also polar maps, and they need to have similar volume displacement as well) and "sound different."

An amp has one input, and one output (per channel) that's easy to characterize. Characterizing the performance of a loudspeaker is much more complex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

If the speakers are eq'd to have the same frequency response why would they sound different? Just like if an amp has the same specs it sounds the same.

Directivity, output limits, physical resonances, room modes, to quickly dash off four.
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Amps don't make a sound!

Sure they do...if you strike them with something. smile.gif

(Or if they have humming transformers, etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

Who cares, stop avoiding the point. If the speakers measure the same do they sound the same? Yes or no and why?

Nobody's avoiding anything. You're just repeating something without understanding what you're saying.

Two speakers that measure the same in all relevant respects should in fact sound the same when placed at the same spot in the same room. Now, find two such speakers, and we'll talk. smile.gif

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"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait

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post #315 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

All class AB, G and H power amps run class A at low volume levels.
]
Class G & H are just class AB with more complicated power supplies to minimize output device power dissipation.

Class H does not have a class A stage, look at the schematics of a true class H, it has a variable rail.

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post #316 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

None of the above quoted material necessarily makes them different from any other switchmode power amp. The above is just a slightly wordy synopsis of how Class D works.
These days Class D amp sound quality pretty much lives or dies based on how well the keep their source impedances down, especially as we get closer to the top of the audio band. To some degree the use of automated system tuning facilities (e.g. Audyssey) makes that less critical.

With respect to the Panasonic, right, wrong, or indifferent I've described it in the past as a "power DAC", because that's basically what it seems to be. A digital to analog converter strong enough to directly drive speakers.

I'm sure you know but these have faded from the scene so for others interest,it doesn't do anything with analog. Analog inputs first go to A-D conversion before amplification, digital input goes directly there.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #317 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

There are two sides to preference, when difference has been established. There's no "right" answer as to preference.
Difference, however, is a falsifiable claim with a right and wrong answer.
One cannot even reach the question of preference without a definitive result as to difference.
If people hear differences under properly controlled circumstances, it's there. If they don't, it's not. If people "hear differences" in sighted listening with no level matching, who cares? I can hear a difference between -30 and -28 on my volume control without going to the trouble of switching amps.
If there are "two sides" there, they are simply the "correct" side and the "wrong" side.
Please show us an example of two speakers that measure the same (not just on-axis FR, but also polar maps, and they need to have similar volume displacement as well) and "sound different."
An amp has one input, and one output (per channel) that's easy to characterize. Characterizing the performance of a loudspeaker is much more complex.
Directivity, output limits, physical resonances, room modes, to quickly dash off four.
Sure they do...if you strike them with something. smile.gif
(Or if they have humming transformers, etc.)
Nobody's avoiding anything. You're just repeating something without understanding what you're saying.
Two speakers that measure the same in all relevant respects should in fact sound the same when placed at the same spot in the same room. Now, find two such speakers, and we'll talk. smile.gif


You don't need to find them, you can just eq them to have the same response at the listening position. And no they won't all sound the same just because they measure the same at the listening position.

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post #318 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 06:25 PM
 
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when listening to amplifiers it helps if the room is huge like at best buy because there arent any walls around to accumulate reflected soundwaves.
if you arent listening to any of the reflected soundwaves, then you can hear the direct signal from the speaker.

once you get a speaker home, your room will contain air as pressure.. no matter if you've got sound absorbers for reflections or not.. because the air inside the room isnt free to move.
if you've got one regular size doorway, that isnt enough to let the soundwaves move freely.
it is a question as to whether or not the speaker will work with the size of pressure in the room and sound better or worse.
when you start doing your corrections, most speakers dont distort because you did a mild boost or cut of a frequency .. but i still listen for it in case it happens.

if the frequency response is made flat inside the room.. the speaker still wont sound like it did at the store with no walls because there is different air pressure in the room.
i'm not really talking about the ringing echo of the room.. i'm talking about the lump sum of pressure .. kinda like opening more than one refrigerator and learning one is colder than the other.

when the person is listening back and forth between two different speakers from the same amplifier, the difference should be large .. because it will be a large difference that makes it's way inside the room and stay there.
...other than that, the room pressure will have a degree of phase .. and it will also have a specific frequency.
if you can get the degree of phase and the frequency to match the room, then the final sound will be improved.. but they dont tell you the phase response at the store or on the speaker website.

blind testing is the most sterile way to do it.
but that just doesnt give enough credit for doing the test less than sterile.
the situation repeats itself to say it is impossible to give credit, but the begging statement is false.. because you can easily listen for a difference on the same set of speakers when the nearest wall is far enough away that the reflections are ____ dB lower than the audio coming from the speaker.
and you can always stand right in front of the speaker to hear it louder than any reflection, and then use your will power to simply ignore the sounds of the reflections and focus on the audio coming directly from the speaker cone.

feels like i am reading people talk about how all hope is gone and fact is nowhere to be found.
where i come from, facts are usually found relatively quick and people dont look back once they find them.
but here.. it's like fact simply cannot be found and people beg for the fact to show itself again, when in reality - it doesnt take a master engineer to focus and note what they absorb.
sometimes people jst need to know what is right from wrong and why.
but in today's economy.. reason is something of a rarity.

amplifiers sound different because the pieces inside are different.
the piece doesnt always cost more because it lasts longer.
and even when the cost is in the same dollar category, those pieces dont function the same.. that is why there is a list of specifications for the piece, to tell an informed person what is happening.
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post #319 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 06:27 PM
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OK OK..we all have our own beliefs..I'm not trying to MAKE anyone change what they believe in..the bottom line here is we ALL love this hobby,our music,our movies,our systems
It does not matter if you..or you..or you can hear a difference..it only matters to each of us individually.. I absolutely love hi-end gear,speakers..etc..and I can tell differences in just about any price of gear..cables...CD players..even HDMI cables...that's just me..it does not matter to me if You can not tell a difference..the marantz CD player I demo'd in my home was warm sounding,laid back..nice sound but to for me..the cam.audio was a lot different sounding..I liked the sound a lot...HDMI cables..they do not all sound or produce the same exact picture...science says that's impossible...my ears and eyes tell me a different story..audio quest vodka is amazing!...same with speaker cable..I tryed 10 different pair in my own home using the same equipment.. Most of them sounded different in one way or another..same with amps..they do sound slightly different.. My parasound halo runs circles around any of my previous amps...but you know...that's just my opinion..my ears and eyes ..everyone of us on this thread is correct..because THATS what we each individualy think..and that's OK...can't we all just get along and respect each others believes?... Its all about the music!
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post #320 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

That makes no sense as two speakers can measure the same and sound different.

No. Show me two speakers that measure the same in every way that are not the same. Or by measure do you mean that two speakers who can hit a certain SPL mean that it is the same thing? Or that the only relevant measurement is the frequency range?

You don't know how to measure speakers, which explains why you think it is something simplistic. I keep bringing up analogies (much as I despise them) but it seems sometimes people aren't able to see the foolishness in their statement without them.

For instance, your statement would be akin to saying, if two cars have the same measured speed then surely they must "handle" the same. Speed and handling are not the same thing. Just like one specific measurement does not embody all that is involved in making sound. Afterall, even the same speaker moved to a different room will sound different but clearly they "measure" the same in an anechoic chamber.
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Originally Posted by Jond0 View Post

If it is a different amp connected to the same components, but a difference can be heard due to connected components, how does one keep the playing field level so the amps can sound the same?
I've had three different amps in my system, and they all sound different from one another. Marantz MA-500 monoblocks, Sony TA-N9000es, and Parasound 5250. I attribute a lot of the difference due to synergy between all the components, so even with similar specs, amps can sound different depending on use?

Did you conduct a double blind level matched listening test? If not, any number of things can impact how something sounds, like differences in gain for instance.

As for synergy, how does this work? The amp is fed a signal, it amplifies that signal and outputs that amplified signal. If an amp somehow can't handle a signal and amplify it in an expected way, then it is faulty. If I gave you a sequence of numbers: 1, 2, 1, 3, 5 and told you to multiply all of those numbers by 10 you would get 10, 20, 10, 30, 50. Your statement regarding synergy however suggests that an amp somehow knows that you didn't really want to multiply all those numbers by exactly 10 because well, the speakers that are connected would benefit from some refinement and so you go and multiply some numbers by 10, some by 9 and some by 11 and arrive with a signal like 11, 18, 10, 33, 45 for instance.

Might you like this second sequence of multiplied numbers better than the first? Possibly, but that is the very definition of faulty... for if you were to buy a calculator that did the same, you would send it back in a heartbeat despite the fact that the incorrect sums might be in your favour e.g. your calculator is designed to know that you don't like giving the bank more money to pay back a home loan but that it should divert more funds for you to buy more amplifiers so it sometimes multiplies the loan repayment by 9 instead of 10 when dealing with the bank, and it sometimes multiplies the funding set aside for amplifier purchases by 11. Sadly for you the bank won't accept your calculator as it is faulty, and if they were allowed, they would find their own calculator that would rip you off some more.
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post #321 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 07:01 PM
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Could have been much worse I guess smile.gif  How you keeping Bill?  We haven't bumped into each other much lately...

Hey Keith,

No we haven't. I'm doing fine and I hope you are as well smile.gif. If you are going to be mistaken for someone on AVS Kal is as good as it gets biggrin.gif.


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #322 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 08:37 PM
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I mean if you had a room measurement system like omni mic in a room and eq'd two sets of speakers to have the same frequency response at the primary listening position. If one speaker had a soft dome tweeter and one a ribbon and they were sending the same response to the listening position why or how could they sound different? They both are being eq'd flat. In regards to your calculator analogy all I can say is that with amps your not just getting an answer. I know you think you are and maybe you should be but the fact that amps I've heard sound more or less bright and their power output is similar makes me think they sound different. Nothing is perfect and theory doesn't matter. The bottom line is I've heard amps with other people for the first time and they'll tell me something I was thinking about it. How did we both come to this conclusion? Did we mind meld and share a placebo when we both had no bias going in?

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post #323 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 09:29 PM
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Strange preposition, that the only relevant measurement for a speaker system would be its frequency response.
Dispersion characteristics of individual drivers, time alignment, phase response and group delay, impedance curve, distortion figures, impulse response etc. are all part of the same "game".
As such different speakers and speaker designs, i.e. cone vs. ribbon vs. planar, will always measure differently in some spec and probably will sound differently too because of this
So what's your point... if any ?
Oversimplification and "forgetting" relevant aspects for those not in the know, or what ?
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post #324 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 09:53 PM
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If your in the know why are you trying to convince us theirs no difference between amps that cost $500 and $10,000 instead of building and selling $10,000 amps with the parts in a $500 amp? You'd be making a killing since your in the know. Instead your on here telling us why we are wasting our money and your dedicated to it like your benefiting some how. lol

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post #325 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mankite View Post

If your in the know why are you trying to convince us theirs no difference between amps that cost $500 and $10,000 instead of building and selling $10,000 amps with the parts in a $500 amp? You'd be making a killing since your in the know. Instead your on here telling us why we are wasting our money and your dedicated to it like your benefiting some how. lol

How about actually taking a second or two to understand that what you wrote is not what people are discussing. Maybe then you can stop your endless posting.

This is not a discussion about an amplifiers "capability", it is purely about an amplifiers "sound quality" under level matched conditions where neither amplifier is stressed beyond it's comfortable operating range. Nobody is saying anything about pushing $500 amps beyond their limits to justify $10,000 amps. Also, nobody is saying that a $500 amp is all you need and that anything beyond that is wasteful. Nobody knows what each person's individual needs are to be making blanket statements like that. If you have super inefficient speakers in a room that is overly large that has very little room gain and you sit very far away from your speakers, you are going to need a more capable amplifier to hit the same listening levels as someone in a small room with efficient speakers sitting close by.
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Originally Posted by mankite View Post

I mean if you had a room measurement system like omni mic in a room and eq'd two sets of speakers to have the same frequency response at the primary listening position. If one speaker had a soft dome tweeter and one a ribbon and they were sending the same response to the listening position why or how could they sound different? They both are being eq'd flat. In regards to your calculator analogy all I can say is that with amps your not just getting an answer. I know you think you are and maybe you should be but the fact that amps I've heard sound more or less bright and their power output is similar makes me think they sound different. Nothing is perfect and theory doesn't matter. The bottom line is I've heard amps with other people for the first time and they'll tell me something I was thinking about it. How did we both come to this conclusion? Did we mind meld and share a placebo when we both had no bias going in?

As someone else has mentioned (and as I alluded to in my post which I assume is what you are responding to), you don't know enough about speaker measurements to be making any kind of statement. I'll ask again, show me a single speaker that measures exactly the same as another speaker that is not the exact same model. So tell me, how does one deduce off-axis response, group delay, etc. from a frequency response plot?

Also, nowhere in your post do you mention any level matching or any other controls that are absolutely necessary when comparing under fair conditions. All your experience is from uncontrolled testing... note how many other posters who have participated in proper double blind tests hold the opposite opinion to you. I also notice that those who share your opinion are very averse to double blind listening tests (as well as making a quick $10,000).
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post #326 of 433 Old 11-28-2012, 10:57 PM
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That's all well and good but like I posted earlier I have had many amps in my system. Of course they were all level matched, of course they were all operating with in their specs, and they sound different. Not night and day different but different nonetheless. I have Triad Gold Monitors which are very efficient and are crossed at 120hz. I've already stated that out of the 3 EAD amps I've had, yes all at the same time that the cheapest least powerful one sounded best to me. So explain why that is if my mind is made up to like the more expensive one?

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post #327 of 433 Old 11-29-2012, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

If your in the know why are you trying to convince us theirs no difference between amps that cost $500 and $10,000 instead of building and selling $10,000 amps with the parts in a $500 amp? You'd be making a killing since your in the know. Instead your on here telling us why we are wasting our money and your dedicated to it like your benefiting some how. lol

OT:
This forum is about AVS(cience).
So it is relevant to me to be educated by others (the "benefits" as you name it) , who know more about a certain aspect of this field than i do (i learned a lot from here already), and to add my own contributions and views based on my personal understanding and experience to this same subject for the benefit of others.
Its not about making money from this specific knowledge.
/OT

There are two aspects to the subject, this thread is discussing / debating from my personal understanding:
1) all amps measure differently in one way or the other, even if it is a different sample of the same model (not unit)
2) the thresholds of the human hearing for those measurements and how relevant they are for the (our) sonic perception

There are different concepts and designs for constructing an amp, classes like A,B,D,G,H etc. and materials plus layouts plus packaging to realize a design.
But as long as the resulting technical parameters of a chosen design fall below the thresholds of the human hearing, they are no longer audibly relevant for the sonic experience of such a unit in contrary to what the "industry" wants us to believe.
The masking (averaging) capability of our ear(s) in combination with its connected hardware (brain) plus some built in "inherent" algorithms, all together summed as "hearing", will provide missing information from clues derived from other data, sometimes even not present in the original data stream (audio). Even if the fundamental tone is not contained (or audible) in a given sequence our hearing will "reconstruct" its presence from the existing overtones thus making us believe, that the fundamental tone was contained within the audio material.
Sometimes we will even "imagine" a sound which never happened in reality, due to some misinterpretation of data currently available to the brain, i.e. a light bursts or pain might be perceived / interpreted as sound.
Thus the outcome of this hearing process is modulated (sometimes "fooled") by all sorts of other information available to the brain at that moment (mostly non-conscious) either as some sort of perception of other senses or stored data (memories) or other influences.
This has been verified by numerous field tests and all compression algorithms like MP3 for example built their working model on those proven theories.
From this point of view it is easily explainable, that not everything we "believe" to have heard is existent in reality.
We might just have been "fooled" by some sort of imagination. We might even "steer" our perceptions (unconsciously) in the "right" direction if needed. Sales practices in this industry built upon this "illusion" and we start to "hear" what we were told to hear.

Just listen to those *experts* (no one particular): "...You don't hear it eek.gif, so you are not one of those gifted ones with "golden ears". Don't you hear/feel the shimmer and sparkle the new super duper power cable adds to the spaciousness and definition of the highs eek.gif I feel sooo sorry for you rolleyes.gif if you don't. You should have your ears (brain?) checked very soon !"

Just joking biggrin.gif
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post #328 of 433 Old 11-29-2012, 01:52 AM
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Never said that power cables or interconnects made a difference. Never said different amps make a huge dufference. Just saying amps can and have sounded different to me because they all were different. You can't compare a cable with an amp. Even two amps that produce the same power output can be different in terms of their specs.

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post #329 of 433 Old 11-29-2012, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

Never said that power cables or interconnects made a difference. Never said different amps make a huge dufference. Just saying amps can and have sounded different to me because they all were different. You can't compare a cable with an amp.

Never suggested, that you did make such a statement (interconnects), didn't i ?
Was just a (humorous ?) commentary how this is been handled and how it works in general.wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

Even two amps that produce the same power output can be different in terms of their specs.

Two amps, no matter if they produce the same power output or not, will always be different in terms of their (detailed) specs.
Even two different samples of the same model will measurably show some (small ?) deviation from the ideal.
Tolerances (of everything used) is the name of the game. They determine somewhat the pricing situation especially if parts have to be selected for matching parameters etc. or a unit has to calibrated to specific standards.
This can never be evaded, just minimized.
But this should make no difference, as soon, as all relevant parameters/specs are below those mentioned thresholds.

A parameter staying somewhat above a given threshold may even get by unnoticed, because in complex sonic scenarios our hearing will try to optimize its available bandwidth by rather looking for the "big picture" and not so much for every minute detail.
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post #330 of 433 Old 11-29-2012, 03:33 AM
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Just out of curiousity what does your system consist of?

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