Can a Denon 4311 handle 4-ohm speakers with ease and with no overheating or any other issues? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-20-2012, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi folks, just like the title states. I have a Denon 4311. I would like to purchase a pair of Legacy Signature SE towers, Silverscreen center, and Deco surrounds. All are 4-ohm speakers. the towers will be bi-amped. No external amplification. can the 4311 handle 4-ohm speakers with ease without overheating and/or going into shut-off power protection mode? It appears like the receiver is rated to handle 4-ohm speakers, but I want some real world input. Thanks.
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post #2 of 22 Old 11-20-2012, 06:51 PM
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As a number of 4311CI owners will attest to in the Denon 4311CI Owner's thread, yes, it can, although skip the "bi-amping" as it's providing no real benefit.

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post #3 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 05:17 AM
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yes it can.

don't bi-amp.

- chris

 

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post #4 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 06:10 AM
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^^
He's one of the one's I was referring to .... wink.gif

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post #5 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
He's one of the one's I was referring to .... wink.gif

?????
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post #6 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the confirmation. Unfortunately, wires are already ran through the walls and two sets were already ran through for bi-amping the towers. The installer advised to do so, and several speaker manufacturers said that it would be a good idea, but there are two school of thoughts on this subject...
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post #7 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 11:40 AM
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^^^

so don't bother hooking up one of the pairs of the wire...

there is really only one school of "thought" on the subject... school of "belief" is not equivalent...

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post #8 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
so don't bother hooking up one of the pairs of the wire...
there is really only one school of "thought" on the subject... school of "belief" is not equivalent...

The hard part is that I paid for all of the wire by foot, and cannot return it now. Would it be benificial for my not to bi-amp them, or it will make no difference? Are you saying that it is not a matter of opinion whether bi-amping is or is not beneficial, but a matter of proven fact?
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post #9 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 01:14 PM
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Research passive bi-amping, lots of threads on AVS. I recently (today; yes Chris, I never learn) made yet another entry on the subject in one of the Pioneer threads you can read. I have also posted threads on another forum showing simulated results from passive bi-amping. There are theoretical but no practical benefits in the vast majority of systems and some drawbacks. I would not do it but the choice is yours.

Use the cables; wire them together (in parallel) at the amp and speaker terminals to reduce wire impedance and you'll probably gain as much or more audible improvement than bi-amping. Which is about zip...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #10 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

The hard part is that I paid for all of the wire by foot, and cannot return it now. Would it be benificial for my not to bi-amp them, or it will make no difference? Are you saying that it is not a matter of opinion whether bi-amping is or is not beneficial, but a matter of proven fact?

To the everlasting pleasureof hard core subjectivists, you can never actually, absolutely, prove the absence of something. So you cannot absolutely prove the absence of an audible effect from passive biamping. Appears that in controlled double blind tests folks don't accurately identify a difference between biamped and non-biamped systems, though. Which means those tests did not prove there is a difference. But the nature of the undertaking is such that not proving a diference is different, technically, from proving an absence of difference.

AFAIK biamping cannot hurt anything, but you absolutely will not achieve double power (which would only be 3 dB anyway) and unless you are pushing your amps hard enough to produce audible distortion, the only slim possible benefit (keeping the higher harmonics of THD from the woofer amp inaudible by feeding the tweeter with an amp that's running maybe 20 percent or so as hard as the amp for the woofer) will not appear either.
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post #11 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, they installed Audioquest Type 2 cables. There are two cables in one. I am not technologically savvy, but they united the two positives and two negatives into one cable, in order to increase the wire gauge thickness, and soldered them to banana connectors. The wires are coming out from wall plates already and ar run through the walls and attic for biamping the towers with a Denon 4311 receiver only, and no external amps. Are you all saying that I should only use one set of wires now for each tower, and not biamp them?
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post #12 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 02:19 PM
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Of course they wanted you to bi-amp .... that cable probably cost you a couple of hundred dollars vs. a comparable cable from Monoprice for 1/4 of that amount. wink.gif

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post #13 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Of course they wanted you to bi-amp .... that cable probably cost you a couple of hundred dollars vs. a comparable cable from Monoprice for 1/4 of that amount. wink.gif

JD, it cost me $2.00 per foot. I think they retail for about $3.00 per foot. At first I was recommended the Liberty 12 guage THX certified in-wall cable, but they are phasing that model out. Then I was recommended to get Audioquest cable. Are you saying that they recommended for me to bi-amp just to sell me more cable?
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post #14 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 03:35 PM
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^^^

not only that, but "equally as good" wire goes for less than 1/6th of what he charged you for "fancy wire"... frown.gif

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2

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post #15 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Research passive bi-amping, lots of threads on AVS. I recently (today; yes Chris, I never learn) made yet another entry on the subject in one of the Pioneer threads you can read. I have also posted threads on another forum showing simulated results from passive bi-amping. There are theoretical but no practical benefits in the vast majority of systems and some drawbacks. I would not do it but the choice is yours.

Use the cables; wire them together (in parallel) at the amp and speaker terminals to reduce wire impedance and you'll probably gain as much or more audible improvement than bi-amping. Which is about zip...

you will always remember the day i introduced you to the concept of passive bi-amping... although not fondly... tongue.gif

yes, i noticed you took up the baton in another thread as well... wink.gif

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post #16 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
not only that, but "equally as good" wire goes for less than 1/6th of what he charged you for "fancy wire"... frown.gif
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2

That is a shame. I thought that Monster Cable was marketing hype, but was under the impression that by going with Tributaries, Audioquest, Ultralink, and other name brands, that there would be an audible difference. So everyone that purchases even higher end cables are just wasting their money?
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post #17 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I wish that some of you lived in California, as I would welcome you to help me out:) I would gladly provide some of the best Brazilian BBQ Picanha and Cachaca around, that is for sure:)
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post #18 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 03:55 PM
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^^^

if i did live there, i would take you up on that... smile.gif

nope... speaker wire is speaker wire... as long as it's copper, long enough (edit: and of an adequate gauge), and securely connected on both ends, you are good to go...

if i was named "a/v czar of the world", the very first thing i'd eradicate are the wire/cable shamans... and i would not be a kind and unforgiving czar while carrying out that eradication... tongue.gif

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #19 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
if i did live there, i would take you up on that... smile.gif
nope... speaker wire is speaker wire... as long as it's copper, long enough (edit: and of an adequate gauge), and securely connected on both ends, you are good to go...
if i was named "a/v czar of the world", the very first thing i'd eradicate are the wire/cable shamans... and i would not be a kind and unforgiving czar while carrying out that eradication... tongue.gif

Duly noted. What about HDMI cables? Are they all of the same. I got Audioquest Cinammon HDMI cables as well, LOL. But I did get them at around 50% off MSRP:) Wish you were out here on this coast, that is for sure. I need someone with knowledge to ajust and tune (calibrate) my system. I am coming to a decision on the speakers (you commented on my thread as well = MA GX vs. RBH vs.Legacy).
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post #20 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 04:28 PM
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^^^

yup... hdmi cables are either "work" or "not work"... i have about a zillion cheapo tartan/pack-ins connecting my junk together... "long runs" are a different story, but imo/ime, the "best" hdmi cable available for long runs is the bluejeans series 1 cable, and it is rather modestly priced... also, with the price of hdbaset sets coming down, that is becoming a nice solution for long runs (i pass hdmi over 100' of cat6 with this)...

ah, now i remember where we conversed before... smile.gif

- chris

 

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post #21 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

Duly noted. What about HDMI cables? Are they all of the same. I got Audioquest Cinammon HDMI cables as well, LOL. But I did get them at around 50% off MSRP:) Wish you were out here on this coast, that is for sure. I need someone with knowledge to ajust and tune (calibrate) my system. I am coming to a decision on the speakers (you commented on my thread as well = MA GX vs. RBH vs.Legacy).

Pretty much, yup. Best Buy sells the 6' cables for about $100 so even at $50, pretty pricey, especially when comparable cables at Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cables go for $5 each. eek.gif

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post #22 of 22 Old 11-21-2012, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
yup... hdmi cables are either "work" or "not work"... i have about a zillion cheapo tartan/pack-ins connecting my junk together... "long runs" are a different story, but imo/ime, the "best" hdmi cable available for long runs is the bluejeans series 1 cable, and it is rather modestly priced... also, with the price of hdbaset sets coming down, that is becoming a nice solution for long runs (i pass hdmi over 100' of cat6 with this)...
ah, now i remember where we conversed before... smile.gif

My HDMI cables are relatively short. Two are 3-feet and the other is 6-feet. I updated that speaker thread. I will PM you when I have some time tonight regarding your "real" thoughts regarding my two choices as of now. RBH is out, because there is no way for me to audition them.
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